Forget Acacia.... Xpays is coming.

100

Indeed they have...

As for Acacia patent scams, wouldnt enforcement/royalty payments be up to the patent holder?

Who's to say he wont try and sue Rick from Dollars.com or the folks over at CJ.COM?

One thing I do wonder though about this patent is: are you going to go after affiliate programs that offer commissions on upselling in their members' area? If the afifiliate program is using its own servers and methods for tracking upsell sales in his system, and is giving commission on those to the webmasters, do you consider that infrigement of your trademark? Because this could cause a conflict with existing affiliate programs...

Guys and Gals -- Don't get in a frenzy like the end of the world is tomorow

Evan got a patent, but he Enjoys the board drama even more.

Xpays was pretty big back in the day you know, promo'd for alot of the larger paysite companies, but as we know things have slowed down for the crew.

Mabey he has changed his ways, I dunno. All I do know is when we were all pissing on the boards, oprano, etc a few ppl were send c@d's by his counsel...

This is my take on this patent:

The "virtual affiliate" invention basically has a bunch of affiliate webmasters on one side and a bunch of sponsors on the other.

Xpays, or whoever does what their patent covers, sits in the middle.

An affiliate webmaster signs up one time with xpays and is assigned a unique ID. They can promote any sponsor by putting in the appropriate links that have their unique ID and the ID of the program they wish to promote. The affilaite webmaster did not have to sign up with each and every sponsor.

The "novelty" of the patent would be that sponsors don't have to deal with affiliates, they deal just with xpays, and xpays handles the payouts.

For Affiliate programs today, you have to signup with each sponsor individually. For anyone who has had to signup with sponsor after sponsor, providing the same info over and over, then you will see the benefit of doing this one time.


You might have even thought, "gee, wish there was a way to just signup once to be able to promote multiple sponsors". Looks like xpays came up with this model and filed their patent early on.

For instances of prior art, you would have to look back to May 1998 or so. Back then, most were doing the regular affiliate signup thing, and it may be possible that xpays was the only one doing this "virtual affiliate" thing.

It's also possible that prior art could be found in mainstream, but most new and innovative ideas starts in adult first, and then either move on to mainstream, or get copied by mainstream.

I would say only one or two handful of companies would have issues with this patent, and yes, dollars.com does look like it fits the patent.

The patent is very specific (as they should be), so any company that does the broad and general description of the patent, could read the patent and see if they do what is claimed.

There are always chances of doing workarounds, like making each affiliate signup with sponsors using a "one click" registration, where the sponsors pay the affiliates, etc.

For those thinking of creative solutions to get around patents, just be sure to check with a patent attorney.. because what you may rationalize as being a workaround, could just be doing the same thing as described.

what you may also find out, is they do indeed have a solid patent with no prior art, and at that point, you would need to take out a license, or face patent infringement lawsuit, where the damages in this case, would be 3x the judgement.

For those who are incorporated, filing BK is certainly an easy way to dodge the bullet, but you also loose your domain names, and the traffic built up to those names, as well as resources (ie. computers, content, etc).

Patent infringement issues happen all the time in mainstream.. Acacia was just the first company to come in, but their claims are clearly bogus.. because there is prior art.

I haven't done any prior art checking for this patent since it's not in my scope of audio/video patents... but wanted to atleast help to clarify what this patent is about....

As you may end up deducing, it affects only a small number of companies, and the ones that are doing it, are making some big bucks.




Fight the Legalese!

Congratz to my dear friends Evan and Michael - this Patent has been a long time coming!



... and for all the naysayers and haters, you should consider a couple of things:

If the idea of using MULTIPLE programs/company's all in one complete package for an affiliate to use - is the essence of what this patent encompasses, then MOST Webmasters and Program Operators have nothing to be concerned with regarding infringing.

BTW - If your existing business model (for years) was based on something you invented (and you could prove so), wouldn't you expect to have the right to patent it and control your intellectual property?

We are glad to share in the space and taking over is a bit of an overstatement

We have another doozy of an announcement coming soon that will rock the celeb content market once more- everyone can be a board rep for us and use our ReferCash(TM) program

I think the main target is dollars.com

guess i'll have to wait for an answer on that one

If you were doing business (and had documentation), and someone after you got a patent that describes what you do or what your business was going to evolve/grow into, you would not have to pay them patent royalties, since you would be a prior inventor.

Most people don't publish their business, they innovate and make money... you may have business plans that talk about growing beyond the affiliate program... while documenation like a business plan that could describe the "virtual affilaite" system is NOT prior art, it can be documentation to prove the company as a "prior inventor".

Burden of proof is on the company to prove that it was documented.. but that's usually the way small companies get out from a patent that covers what they do that was issued after them.


I know of a company that has a business plan from 20 years ago that talks about selling digital audio/video electronically.. this company's business plan (with the dust blown off), would be excempt from Acacia, but they would not be prior art to knock out the patent, because it was not published.


Patent Law has alot of angles to it, and I don't give the complexity of the issue justice by oversimplifying it, but atleast to convey what i have learned about this very tricky subject in the last year.

When patents popup, years after they were issued, like Acacia, they are refered as "submarine patents".. where they sit quiet, waiting for the world to use the "invention", and then spring up. Unisys did this with their enforcement of the GIF image file format a few years before the patent expired.... when everyone was using GIF.


Fight the Submarine Business Plan!

"For instances of prior art, you would have to look back to May 1998 or so."

There is prior works actually to this system.

Remember old "CommissionJunction"?

It was a mainstream company that ya signed up with and it allowed ya to send traffic to various products and services. It was earlier than 98 actually.

BOOM.

xpays isn't going to tell you their plans... if you think you might be a target, there are a couple of ways to deal with it:

1) do nothing.. wait for them to contact you, and then you decide what you want to do, then:

a) do nothing again
b) hire a patent attorney and get an opinion paper
c) close up shop


2) hire a patent attorney and get an opinion paper. This will cost you anywhere from $10k - $25K. By having this, it helps to avoid the "wilfull infringement" charge.. Given the outcome of the attorney's report, you may have a chance to argue in court to defend yourself, or the attorney's analyst confirms the patent claims and that you do infringe.

3) read the patents yourself, look at your business, if it looks pretty close, and you don't have the money to get an opinion paper, then negotiate for a license based on volume, sweetheart deal, etc.


4) move everything offshore where they don't have a patent office.


Fight the Options!

Now we can pass around the pop corn.

A ton of legal jargon for kids who not long ago were sending out spam using hotmail and other microsofts resources.

Ya, i vaguely remember them, and beFree, Banner exchange stuff, commission central (?) etc, etc and other marketing programs.. but for those like BeFree, you had to signup with each one individually.

In checking over at archive.org, they were indexed Jan 1999, not early enough to be prior art... so not much documentation there.

Like i said before, new innovation happens in adult first, and there may not have been anything back in early 1998 that did this virtual affiliate thing.


Fight the Nostalgia!

on the bright side for me personally, I have been trying to explain to my averagely internet savvy family what we do for years. now i can just hand them a pdf

j/k they would still not get it, but you get my drift. the internet is still young.

Our proverbial "house" is clean.

There is no way of telling, http://www.commission-junction.com in the way back tool is blocked by the robot.txt.

So research is needed if anyone is really paranoid.

Anyways.


Nice score Xpays.
Good luck with it.

Thanks Alien!

Sad, but the day may come when this is the only option for anyone who wants to run an internet business profitably.

intellectual property law in the U.S., although imperfect, is one of the things that makes this country great.

I remember when Evan came out with the first versions of this system.

It was called "XPAYS Commerce Network"

Correction Its the same look! GUess he couldnt change much when filing with the USDPTO.

"Performance Commerce Network"

Michael is the smart one over here at XPays

What??

I never heard about this!

Evan why didn't you tell me sooner about this patent thing?



I recall going to the boards months back and mentioning about possible infringers...but no one listens to me

:-))

Congrats to Michael and Evan

Patents are not bad.

We have patents pending too.

There is absolutely no comparison between Acacia and Xpays. Remember, Xpays actually worked hard themselves on a creative invention, while Acacia is a bunch of attorneys that bought up nebulous patents from the wreckage of dot bombs and had serious motivation to sue.

Congratulations are due. Getting a patent is not an easy or cheap process to deal with.

Acacia sued first and asked questions later. It is obvious from the Evan posts that this is not what Xpays has any intention of doing.

As someone that is actually part of the Acacia Defense Group and knowing the millions that have been spent, I feel like my opinion should get an extra penny on top of the other two...

Thanks KB! Your support throughout the years has been unwaivering and most appreciated! Good times ahead

Bah its the beer and the blondes that make america great , nobody cares about intellectual property..

Have a question though..

Obviously it takes a patent interpreter to understand the full scope of what a patent covers, but heres what i got out of it.


The general idea is that the patent is for an affiliate system that includes many different sponsors for the affiliate to use without having to sign up for each one individually.

Furthermore it appears the patent may be trying to cover the use of linking code that works for multiple sponsors of the affiliate choice without having to change the link code or banner images each time the affiliate changes links to a new banner/company. ( there are some other patents that already cover this area and im curious as to how yours differs. )


Now my question is. Why are you marketing this patent the way you are ( confusingly ) instead of using this as an opportunity to announce a revolutionary new affiliate system that could profit everybody here a bundle..


Im not looking for a precise response , just some sort of blanket statement that the masses can understand.

I do understand you reluctance to tell us if individual systems are currently in your view violating your patent, but i think it would be alright to tell us if there are any CURRENT large scale programs that you intend to fight with this patent, Or if you are merely protecting yourself from future infringers.

I thought Spike's quotes in the last article regarding the last hearing say it all and we appreciate the balance of your post and wish your team continued victories along the road of invalidating Acacia's patent

Speaking now as part of the IMPA, we are available to help foster communication between companies in an effort to avoid expensive and expansive litigation.

government is not shutting shit down, quit the scare tactic's trying 2 get peope to vote for that asswipe Kerry

I see it as being similar to some online shopping malls...

Many of them have several suppliers that provide the goods, but the customer just has to make the purchases from one source; eliminating the need to go to different stores for different goods..

This "revolutionary new affiliate system" has been commercially in use for years. The patent published in the issued database on Oct 12 2004, so we felt it prudent to cautiously make this announcement. We really respect a lot of the opinions expressed in this thread and truly look forward to more in-depth discussions at an appropriate time.

Get ready for Acacia Vol. 2

247media (Jan 99), Valueclick (98), Burstmedia, DoubleClick (97-98) and a bunch of others did this in 1997-98-99

In use to some extent , but not in the way this patent reads. It seems to cover a very wide area of things not currently in use ( or that im aware of )

BTW kudos on the idea and the patent. Looks like great things are in the works for the future.

So how soon will it be before i can login to my master account and get statistics for performance of banners for multiple affiliates, and change by sponsors/banners on the fly from within my master account without ever having to change my link codes..

Thats what i'll be waiting for, and from the looks of it you will be running this when it does..

hmmmm

stop tempting me - the answer to your question may actually be a historical date in history- some of our affiliates will smirk when they read your question - customizations and reporting are our business.

not only that but we also have a top performers link that is dynamic and have for many many years. affiliates who do not wish to think- can add the special banner codes and the script picks the best creative by niche- for years and years.

If I am not mistaken with CJ you must sign up and provide info for each and every program you want to use, this system takes all that and eliminates the need to sign up or authorize with multiple programs..

You would get paid on everything within the program from one check. You would also have the ability to control all of your exit traffic if multiple programs hop on board with this..

In essence you could potentially eliminate the need to worry about getting credit for exit traffic and stuff like that...

I have still not emensed myself in this patent, but while I was at Evans house he gave me a pretty detailed rundown of how it works.. Only certain people would be in violation..

This is not going to be some patent case like acacia where they fire off cold call letters to everyone in the industry..

This is one of those types of patents that patents were created for..

If I am not mistaken evan, was this patent not approved two seperate times by two seperate patent officers? The first time being an officer who passed away right when the patent was about to be finalized the first time? Thus giving you a double approval on a patent?

You have a good memory considering we covered so much ground here that night. And, again I learned a lot from our conversations and thanks for taking the time to visit here!

Yes, the uspto issued an approval and the examiner fell ill, leaving us in limbo for an extra year, while new examiners started from scratch. The uspto added 3 years to the life of the patent most likely due to the unfortunate delay.

Once again, this is not another Acacia. Not even remotely close.

The Xpays patent is very specific and the Acacia patent is completely overbroad. Acacia is predatory, Xpays is not. Acacia didn't invent anything themselves, Xpays did.

None of the Acacia Defendants, those few who are actually spending money to fight Acacia are Anti- Patent. Quite the contrary. Many of the defendants are either in process or have patents themselves.

We are against bad patents.

And rewarding invention is what makes this country great because it makes it possible to get more beer and chicks.... God bless America!

I was thinking a little more in depth than top performers.

The problem is , its nice for the sponsor to choose where your traffic goes ( ie. top performing sites ), but sometimes the webmaster has a better understanding of his traffic. And there are many other factors that determine what will convert better for you.

Thats why i think your patent covers areas not already being used.

Like the affiliate chooses where the traffic goes from multiple sponsors / multiple banners..

I.e. i have a smoking fetish website , and i want to add a new banner, i want to login and search available banners by niche, see what the conversion are for that particular banner and sponsors, then change the code from within the stats area and have the changes reflect the image and link being served on my website, without me having to alter my link code.

There are services that can provide almost every aspect mentioned , but none that roll that all into one big basket.. ( that i know of )

Your house is clean after microsoft scared you straight? Your past is well known.

People should take notice of this. A organization that has faught acacia harder than anyone is acknowledging this patent as being valid..

I had the oppertunity to sit down and discuss many things with Far-L at Dinner and in his suite in Florida at Internext and this was one of the topics that came up. This was prior to my relations with Evan, and I was somewhat skeptical myself. But after discussing this with Far-L I was really interested in finding out more..

He made if very clear to me that this patent was indeed detailed enough to not be a junk patent like the DMT patent that acacia has and is trying to do an industry shakedown with.

So instead of XPAYS ALWAYS PAYS ON TIME

Is it fair to say now that XPAYS ALWAYS FILES PATENTS ON TIME?

What you are talking about wanting is the basis of what Xpays does now if I am not mistaken... I think that is what Evan was suggesting by the "smirk" comment.

I suspect this has more to do with dollars.com than anything else.

Somewhere out there right now in legal land an office full of attorneys are sharpening their pencils, looking at lists of companies in our industry and drooling from their fanged vile mouths.



USPTO is filled with clueless patent examiners when it comes to the Internet sector.