Who represents this industry?

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  • DamageX
    Marketing & Strategy
    • Jun 2001
    • 14293

    #1

    Who represents this industry?

    Between ACACIA, 2257, .XXX and the newly proposed porn tax, to name just a few, is there ANY interest group who has ALWAYS spoken up, defended and looked out for the best interests of this industry?

    All I see is a bunch of disparate corporations, individual webmasters and whatever other entities, US or non-US, who have nothing better to do than to REACT every time someone throws some shit in their back yard. How about this industry actually starts bonding together, for a change, and starts acting PRO-ACTIVE to benefit its members? The last time I heard someone talk about something like this was when boneprone mentioned a union, about four years ago.

    Not looking to stir shit, point fingers or anything, just trying to understand why something like this never got off the ground. Sure, lots of non-US webmasters around, myself among them. And while it's easy to turn a blind eye onto what happens with US legislation, it STILL affects ALL of us, in the long run. So how about some of the industry players start getting together and form an interest group, to lobby Washington for the benefit of this industry? Also, I wouldn't mind if this interest group set up some kind of "task force" to inform the public about online porn and the legitimacy of this business, God knows there's enough misunderstanding and prejudice around as it is...

    Thoughts?
    Whitehat is for chumps

    If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!
  • DamageX
    Marketing & Strategy
    • Jun 2001
    • 14293

    #2
    Fuck, looks like I should've included [PIC] or [Would you hit it?] in the thread title... For fuck's sake people, please tell me you're not THAT shallow... This is YOUR business, YOUR money we're talking about... Fuckheads...
    Whitehat is for chumps

    If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

    Comment

    • Doctor Dre
      Too lazy to set a custom title
      • Jan 2001
      • 51692

      #3
      The reason why this industry get targetted by compagnies like ACACIA is because we are not united.

      We are probably THE industry where we work the most together, yet we can't team up together to defend ourselves
      Originally posted by rayadp05
      I rebooted, deleted temp files, history, cookies and everything...still cannot view the news clip. All I see is that fucking gay ass music video from "Rick Roll". Anyone else have a different link to the news clip?

      Comment

      • asl
        Confirmed User
        • Jun 2003
        • 444

        #4
        According to me, it would be really difficult to join ourselves as we all come from different countries with specific laws. Can't really see what it would change to be united as US government doesn't care about the non US webbies ;)
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        Comment

        • DamageX
          Marketing & Strategy
          • Jun 2001
          • 14293

          #5
          Originally posted by asl
          According to me, it would be really difficult to join ourselves as we all come from different countries with specific laws. Can't really see what it would change to be united as US government doesn't care about the non US webbies ;)
          The problem is that this will divide this industry in US and non-uS. Not saying it's not divided already, but thinking this way will do so even more. The only question is, how unaffected by US laws are non-US webmasters? Let's not forget that the very heart of this business are entities such as VISA and MasterCard, US corporations, which could stop accepting adult transactions if enough incentives (regulations) were offered. Don't fucking kid yourself and stick your head in the sand, thinking that just because you're outside the US they can't fuck you. You don't wanna dare them.
          Whitehat is for chumps

          If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

          Comment

          • asl
            Confirmed User
            • Jun 2003
            • 444

            #6
            Look here :

            http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php

            Every country has its laws and in Belgium, we got no 2257, no ACACIA and no extra taxes on porn. So yes, I don't care about being united but what's the point ?
            Paysite owners: Submit your site for reviewing and touch a French audience.

            Comment

            • PussyTeenies
              Confirmed User
              • Feb 2005
              • 6496

              #7
              unite the adult industry.. sounds good to me..
              as long as we/I have a voice in it .. and dont get the blame/finger pointing or the penalty when something goes awry
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              • High Plains Drifter
                Confirmed User
                • Jun 2005
                • 2341

                #8
                The online adult industry isn't big enough or wealthy enough to support an interest group.

                Comment

                • DamageX
                  Marketing & Strategy
                  • Jun 2001
                  • 14293

                  #9
                  Originally posted by asl
                  Look here :

                  http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php

                  Every country has its laws and in Belgium, we got no 2257, no ACACIA and no extra taxes on porn. So yes, I don't care about being united but what's the point ?
                  Let's see how much you care when VISA and MasterCard do an AmEx on you and stop accepting adult transactions. Want me to tell you where you can shove your Belgian laws then?
                  Whitehat is for chumps

                  If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                  Comment

                  • DamageX
                    Marketing & Strategy
                    • Jun 2001
                    • 14293

                    #10
                    Originally posted by skinnywussy
                    The online adult industry isn't big enough or wealthy enough to support an interest group.
                    WRONG

                    ___
                    Whitehat is for chumps

                    If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                    Comment

                    • NaughtyRob
                      Two fresh affiliate progs
                      • Nov 2004
                      • 29602

                      #11
                      Originally posted by skinnywussy
                      The online adult industry isn't big enough or wealthy enough to support an interest group.
                      Very wrong.
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                      • DamageX
                        Marketing & Strategy
                        • Jun 2001
                        • 14293

                        #12
                        Originally posted by asl
                        Look here :

                        http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php

                        Every country has its laws and in Belgium, we got no 2257, no ACACIA and no extra taxes on porn. So yes, I don't care about being united but what's the point ?
                        Ah, amost forgot. In Belgium you DO have ACACIA. They own individual patents in a number of European countires and a few general patents at EU level. I'd say that as far as ACACIA is concerned, you can consider yourself fucked.
                        Whitehat is for chumps

                        If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                        Comment

                        • DraX
                          Confirmed User
                          • Oct 2002
                          • 7147

                          #13
                          Its not all about laws but common sense friends/partners together. Its all about money. I can work with a guy for 4 years and then I get fucked all over the ass.

                          I have come to a situation where its the best to have less people to work with, cause you cant trust no one. The more you say the more you get back at ya.

                          Maybe this sounds very paranoid but this is how i feel about things.

                          And you people who cant accept that FUCK YOU

                          This is one of the main things why people arnt united. There are always some greedy ass hat that wants to be better, richer, better looks bla bla

                          This is not only in the porn business.

                          Im not 100% fluent in english so maybe i explained myself somewhat wrong but i hope the most understand how i think
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                          • VicD
                            ICQ: 304-611-162
                            • Feb 2005
                            • 13245

                            #14
                            Originally posted by DraX
                            Its not all about laws but common sense friends/partners together. Its all about money. I can work with a guy for 4 years and then I get fucked all over the ass.

                            I have come to a situation where its the best to have less people to work with, cause you cant trust no one. The more you say the more you get back at ya.

                            Maybe this sounds very paranoid but this is how i feel about things.

                            And you people who cant accept that FUCK YOU

                            This is one of the main things why people arnt united. There are always some greedy ass hat that wants to be better, richer, better looks bla bla

                            This is not only in the porn business.

                            Im not 100% fluent in english so maybe i explained myself somewhat wrong but i hope the most understand how i think
                            agreed, i like your thoughts about this

                            Comment

                            • The Sultan Of Smut
                              Confirmed User
                              • Dec 2004
                              • 4325

                              #15
                              Originally posted by DraX
                              This is one of the main things why people arnt united. There are always some greedy ass hat that wants to be better, richer, better looks bla bla
                              Absolutely correct. Since greed can conquer nations and split the atom I can't see it not being an integral part of peddling smut...

                              I truely wish the adult industry would form a lobby and I will be the first to pony up but it will never happen. I'm way too busy to start it myself and the fact I have zero clout makes it even worse

                              It's going to take program owners and a few of the larger webmasters to start it as well as make it so that to be in the 'cool club' you have to participate.

                              Comment

                              • DamageX
                                Marketing & Strategy
                                • Jun 2001
                                • 14293

                                #16
                                Originally posted by The Sultan Of Smut
                                Absolutely correct. Since greed can conquer nations and split the atom I can't see it not being an integral part of peddling smut...

                                I truely wish the adult industry would form a lobby and I will be the first to pony up but it will never happen. I'm way too busy to start it myself and the fact I have zero clout makes it even worse

                                It's going to take program owners and a few of the larger webmasters to start it as well as make it so that to be in the 'cool club' you have to participate.
                                Set some time aside now and be pro-active, or set some time aside in the future and be reactive. At least NOW you can have a say of YOUR choice.
                                Whitehat is for chumps

                                If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                                Comment

                                • Connor
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Feb 2003
                                  • 1294

                                  #17
                                  I don't have the time to get into a long discussion tonight, but.... you are aware of the Free Speech Coalition, right?

                                  http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/

                                  If you are interested in getting involved, learning more, whatever, drop me an email at [email protected] and I will try to point you in the right direction.

                                  I completely agree that a united industry is FAR more powerful. I don't believe that this industry will ever be truly united, too many people of different minds... but even if we unite like-minded people who want to make a positive difference, and even if that's only a percentage of the industry, that alone will make a big impact on our ability to defend ourselves from the constant offensives that are levelled at us.


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                                  Comment

                                  • DamageX
                                    Marketing & Strategy
                                    • Jun 2001
                                    • 14293

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Connor
                                    I don't have the time to get into a long discussion tonight, but.... you are aware of the Free Speech Coalition, right?

                                    http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/
                                    I am aware of the FSC. The FSC has never actually been a representative for this industry, until the shit hit the fan. I'm advocating PRO-ACTIVE, not REACTIVE action. I'd love to see the FSC stand up for this industry more, but so far, I'm really not impressed, even in light of the latest 2257 proceedings.
                                    Whitehat is for chumps

                                    If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                                    Comment

                                    • je_rome
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Jul 2005
                                      • 6846

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Doctor Dre
                                      The reason why this industry get targetted by compagnies like ACACIA is because we are not united.

                                      We are probably THE industry where we work the most together, yet we can't team up together to defend ourselves
                                      that's a very good point.
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                                      • RogerV
                                        Banned!
                                        • Jul 2002
                                        • 12591

                                        #20
                                        Juicy gets my vote

                                        Comment

                                        • aico
                                          Moo Moo Cow
                                          • Mar 2004
                                          • 14748

                                          #21
                                          I still say we should buy our own fucking island, declare it a new country, hook it up with some bad ass highspeed, and then take over the world...

                                          Just a thought...

                                          Comment

                                          • DamageX
                                            Marketing & Strategy
                                            • Jun 2001
                                            • 14293

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by RogerV
                                            Juicy gets my vote
                                            Thanks for a post as useless as the sig of the one you mentioned. I expected more from you.
                                            Whitehat is for chumps

                                            If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

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                                            • Connor
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Feb 2003
                                              • 1294

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by DamageX
                                              I am aware of the FSC. The FSC has never actually been a representative for this industry, until the shit hit the fan. I'm advocating PRO-ACTIVE, not REACTIVE action. I'd love to see the FSC stand up for this industry more, but so far, I'm really not impressed, even in light of the latest 2257 proceedings.
                                              That's not entirely an inappropriate opinion... I can see how you might feel that way. There was a period of time when I too questioned the FSC's dedication to helping the online industry. I do believe, however, that things have changed. And regarding what you are saying about being proactive rather than reactive, I think you should chat with Michelle, the relatively new Executive Director of the FSC. She feels exactly the same way, as do I. The FSC is the industry's best shot at defending itself, both proactively and reactively.


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                                              • DamageX
                                                Marketing & Strategy
                                                • Jun 2001
                                                • 14293

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by aico
                                                I still say we should buy our own fucking island, declare it a new country, hook it up with some bad ass highspeed, and then take over the world...

                                                Just a thought...
                                                Not a bad one at that. Just curious, would you see the worl outside of the USA as an island? 'Cause it sure as hell is a big one.
                                                Whitehat is for chumps

                                                If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                                                Comment

                                                • aico
                                                  Moo Moo Cow
                                                  • Mar 2004
                                                  • 14748

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by DamageX
                                                  Not a bad one at that. Just curious, would you see the worl outside of the USA as an island? 'Cause it sure as hell is a big one.

                                                  point, set, match

                                                  Comment

                                                  • DamageX
                                                    Marketing & Strategy
                                                    • Jun 2001
                                                    • 14293

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Connor
                                                    That's not entirely an inappropriate opinion... I can see how you might feel that way. There was a period of time when I too questioned the FSC's dedication to helping the online industry. I do believe, however, that things have changed. And regarding what you are saying about being proactive rather than reactive, I think you should chat with Michelle, the relatively new Executive Director of the FSC. She feels exactly the same way, as do I. The FSC is the industry's best shot at defending itself, both proactively and reactively.
                                                    Great. Then they probably should hire me as a spokesperson, 'cause they sure as hell do a fucking shitty job at informing people about what they're doing. Honest, aside from the latest 2257 thingy, I've NEVER heard of the FSC do ANYTHING for this industry. I think Larry Flynt's done a thing here and there, but the FSC? Sorry, can't think of a single thing.

                                                    EDIT: In fact, I think that if the FSC would be smart enough, then they'd ride the waves of their recent success in battling 2257 in order to rally more support for supporting the industry. Thing is, who the fuck represents THEM?
                                                    Last edited by DamageX; 08-18-2005, 04:21 PM.
                                                    Whitehat is for chumps

                                                    If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

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                                                    • mrthumbs
                                                      salad tossing sig guy
                                                      • Apr 2002
                                                      • 11702

                                                      #27
                                                      maybe theres not much to represent or stand up for.

                                                      Just because we have a bad name everywhere doesnt mean (unlike others that have the same title in the media) we dont deserve it.

                                                      We are a bunch of moron scamming idiots that need to be controlled.

                                                      Comment

                                                      • DamageX
                                                        Marketing & Strategy
                                                        • Jun 2001
                                                        • 14293

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by mrthumbs
                                                        maybe theres not much to represent or stand up for.

                                                        Just because we have a bad name everywhere doesnt mean (unlike others that have the same title in the media) we dont deserve it.

                                                        We are a bunch of moron scamming idiots that need to be controlled.
                                                        No offense, but that's nothing different from say the oil or the automotive industry. Those are regulated and controlled too. But unlike this one, they're also REPRESENTED. Which means that they actually have a say. Take that, Washington.
                                                        Whitehat is for chumps

                                                        If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

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                                                        • RogerV
                                                          Banned!
                                                          • Jul 2002
                                                          • 12591

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by DamageX
                                                          Thanks for a post as useless as the sig of the one you mentioned. I expected more from you.
                                                          Sorry to disappoint you but I gave up on trying to educate people on this board

                                                          There are those who know and those who will never get it. I?ve learned

                                                          Now I stick to just hit it threads and useless Post

                                                          Comment

                                                          • BradM
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Dec 2003
                                                            • 3397

                                                            #30
                                                            No one cares, that's why. We all do our own thing.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • ListYourPorn
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Jan 2004
                                                              • 791

                                                              #31
                                                              Its all a faze that will go away within 10 years, the issue is the older generation don't understand technology so when they go online they press every thing that flashes and have a 'filth' experience.

                                                              This leads to concern as the younger generation are grasping technology which leads them to beleive they are all jerking off. Truth of the matter is the kids do give a fuck about porn, they are prob file sharing and playing games.

                                                              When this generation is fully retired then things will change. As for selling porn theres only a handfull of people who make the rest of us just market and marketing is not a bad profession.


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                                                              • tony299
                                                                lurker
                                                                • Aug 2002
                                                                • 57021

                                                                #32
                                                                I think there are a few reasons we dont have unity :
                                                                First I think a bunch of the big fish want these things to get rid of a bunch of us. A sever thinning of the herd.
                                                                Secondly if it doesnt effect them directly at that moment, they will do nothing.
                                                                Thirdly this is a short sighted whore business for the most part, so its all about todays dollars. Someone who will hurt us but makes a side deal with someone. They dont think big picture just ,I benefited fuck the rest of them.
                                                                Fourthly people would rather spend money on parties ,big toys than fighting the good fight.

                                                                Now lots of small webmasters would rather keep their heads in the sand and expect others to fight for them. The combo of big and small atitudes leads to very few doing anything.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • DamageX
                                                                  Marketing & Strategy
                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                  • 14293

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by RogerV
                                                                  Sorry to disappoint you but I gave up on trying to educate people on this board

                                                                  There are those who know and those who will never get it. I?ve learned

                                                                  Now I stick to just hit it threads and useless Post
                                                                  I'm sure you'll earn a lot of respect that way.

                                                                  Originally posted by ListYourPorn
                                                                  Its all a faze that will go away within 10 years, the issue is the older generation don't understand technology so when they go online they press every thing that flashes and have a 'filth' experience.

                                                                  This leads to concern as the younger generation are grasping technology which leads them to beleive they are all jerking off. Truth of the matter is the kids do give a fuck about porn, they are prob file sharing and playing games.

                                                                  When this generation is fully retired then things will change. As for selling porn theres only a handfull of people who make the rest of us just market and marketing is not a bad profession.
                                                                  Do you wanna wait 10-20 years before knowing someone will give a fuck about you? Chances are that regulatory bodies will put you out of business way before anything is done. And when they come for your business, who'll speak up for you?
                                                                  Whitehat is for chumps

                                                                  If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • ListYourPorn
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Jan 2004
                                                                    • 791

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by DamageX
                                                                    Do you wanna wait 10-20 years before knowing someone will give a fuck about you? Chances are that regulatory bodies will put you out of business way before anything is done. And when they come for your business, who'll speak up for you?

                                                                    The same people that stood up and spoke for me when my backside was last against the wall, me. As for what we do its just ecommerce, if you cant sell pussy then I am sure all of us will find other things to sell.

                                                                    Look at the numbers, the real volume -

                                                                    I nicked this off a news report -

                                                                    Visa reported that it had more than 1 billion cards in circulation worldwide, while MasterCard reported that it had more than 590 million cards in circulation worldwide. Also in 2002, Visa reported that more than 1.8 trillion products and services were purchased using its cards, while MasterCard reported more than 13.6 billion transactions involving the use of its cards.

                                                                    now how much do you think is from the adult biz? Having a guess myself now I would say less then 10%.

                                                                    Theres a ton of shit you can do online to make money


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                                                                    • DamageX
                                                                      Marketing & Strategy
                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                      • 14293

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by ListYourPorn
                                                                      Theres a ton of shit you can do online to make money
                                                                      Not arguing with you there. The strong will always adapt. But that's still reactive and not pro-active. Why face the insecurity of having to find another thing to do, when you can secure doing what you do now?
                                                                      Whitehat is for chumps

                                                                      If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Connor
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Feb 2003
                                                                        • 1294

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by DamageX
                                                                        Great. Then they probably should hire me as a spokesperson, 'cause they sure as hell do a fucking shitty job at informing people about what they're doing. Honest, aside from the latest 2257 thingy, I've NEVER heard of the FSC do ANYTHING for this industry. I think Larry Flynt's done a thing here and there, but the FSC? Sorry, can't think of a single thing.

                                                                        EDIT: In fact, I think that if the FSC would be smart enough, then they'd ride the waves of their recent success in battling 2257 in order to rally more support for supporting the industry. Thing is, who the fuck represents THEM?
                                                                        Other than 2257? They helped head off the mandatory condom law in California, and have been lobbying in that state on a regular basis in support of the industry. They brought a case to the Supreme Court and won that stopped the government from charging you with child porn if you had a 30 year-old model in pigtails on your site... I'm being general, the law would have treated the same as child porn any content that "appears to be" a minor even if you could prove it was otherwise. The FSC stopped that law by itself. They just recently hired a federal lobbyist to watch out for the industry in Washington, D.C. -- a first for this industry, as far as I know. So they have done a lot. You're right though, it's a shame more people don't know about all this. I know we do what we can at YNOT to highlight FSC actions as they occur. I can't speak for the other news sites.

                                                                        BTW, is that your web design site in your footer? Was just checking out your portfolio... you've done some nice work.


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                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • ListYourPorn
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Jan 2004
                                                                          • 791

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by DamageX
                                                                          Not arguing with you there. The strong will always adapt. But that's still reactive and not pro-active. Why face the insecurity of having to find another thing to do, when you can secure doing what you do now?
                                                                          What are you trying to secure?


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                                                                          • Love Sex
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Nov 2004
                                                                            • 1905

                                                                            #38
                                                                            I read the first few posts, but a major reason for representation in such a braod industry is simple, its most likely not profitable to those who will do it. If it was or becomes a moneymaker people will jump on it.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • DamageX
                                                                              Marketing & Strategy
                                                                              • Jun 2001
                                                                              • 14293

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by Connor
                                                                              Other than 2257? They helped head off the mandatory condom law in California, and have been lobbying in that state on a regular basis in support of the industry. They brought a case to the Supreme Court and won that stopped the government from charging you with child porn if you had a 30 year-old model in pigtails on your site... I'm being general, the law would have treated the same as child porn any content that "appears to be" a minor even if you could prove it was otherwise. The FSC stopped that law by itself. They just recently hired a federal lobbyist to watch out for the industry in Washington, D.C. -- a first for this industry, as far as I know. So they have done a lot. You're right though, it's a shame more people don't know about all this. I know we do what we can at YNOT to highlight FSC actions as they occur. I can't speak for the other news sites.
                                                                              Too bad they don't have a spokesperson who frequents the boards. During the 2257 rally I can't remember reading a single FSC "official" post anywhere. After all, this industry tends to do a lot of business and get a lot of info on boards.

                                                                              Originally posted by Connor
                                                                              BTW, is that your web design site in your footer? Was just checking out your portfolio... you've done some nice work.
                                                                              Thanks, appreciate the good words. Not done by me personally though, just created under my guidance by my in-house staff. I'm no designer, just a stupid marketer.

                                                                              Originally posted by ListYourPorn
                                                                              What are you trying to secure?
                                                                              That no one fucks with my business.
                                                                              Whitehat is for chumps

                                                                              If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • DamageX
                                                                                Marketing & Strategy
                                                                                • Jun 2001
                                                                                • 14293

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by Alan Greenspan
                                                                                --= LC =--
                                                                                Forgot your medication for the past five years or so? Idiot, don't litter my thread.
                                                                                Whitehat is for chumps

                                                                                If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • DamageX
                                                                                  Marketing & Strategy
                                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                                  • 14293

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Bump for the Friday crowd. :D
                                                                                  Whitehat is for chumps

                                                                                  If you don't do it, somebody else will - true story!

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