... and IBILL does nothing...

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  • The Hun
    Confirmed User
    • Jan 2001
    • 1205

    #1

    ... and IBILL does nothing...

    I get spammed by some lame ass saying I opted-in for his mailing list. I get this message every single day:

    Dear User.

    You have been subscribed to our daily letter,
    it means that you will receive news from us every day.
    Today we would like to represent you our sites:

    http://www.betterteens.com/
    http://www.loporn.com/
    http://www.teensfilms.com/

    What is LoPorn? It's the place of pleasure and beauty.
    It's the place where you can get great pleasure of observing the beauty of the young girls.
    Would you like to make some of them lose virginity in any way you want?
    They would be glad to give you everything if you are the member of this special place
    - Loporn.com!


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    Ok, so everybody gets spam... but this one just ticked me off enough to take action. I reported their actions to IBill who doesn't allow spamming, but they don't seem to react at all. So I'm trying this route now. Hope these kids will stop their stupid spamming...

    There should be a law against mailing-list not requiring a double opt-in (opt-in with a confirmation). I'm getting spam for morgages and everything. I am 100% I will not be able to get any money from 'em since I'm not even in the US... Lamers.

    The European Union is working on a proposition to ban all non-double-opt-in mailing lists. I sure hope the US will follow. It's so easy to implement a confirmation procedure. It would also help the adult business. At least nobody can get sued for sending adult material to a minor if they double-optede in. Time for some regulations...
  • DarkJedi
    No Refunds Issued.
    • Feb 2001
    • 28301

    #2
    img scr iBill

    Comment

    • Krome
      Confirmed User
      • Jul 2001
      • 2851

      #3
      "Message: 'http://www.totalrequestslive.com/

      This company has continued all day to spam me with the same email for this
      site. When I request to be removed from their database another exactly the
      same mail comes out. I am now sick of this and informing all their billing
      agents and hosts. I am considering taking legal action against them and
      anyone who supports their activities.

      Thanks
      Krome.
      P.S. Sorry if this sounds abrupt I am jsut very annoyed with them.'"

      This message was sent to Ibill over two weeks ago regarding the above site. Of course I am not goin gto take legal action against everyone involved but I just added that bit to look a bit 'ard. Ibill did nothing and I still continue to get emails regarding this great site..that is shit...

      Comment

      • FATPad
        Confirmed User
        • Oct 2001
        • 6693

        #4
        iBill couldn't respond. They were busy moving into a bigger office as a reward for doing such a great job all year.

        <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

        Comment

        • Daymare
          Confirmed User
          • Feb 2002
          • 2674

          #5
          Originally posted by DarkJedi
          img scr iBill
          agreed.

          Comment

          • Aussie Rebel
            Blow Me U Geeks
            • Aug 2001
            • 5108

            #6
            See what happens when you dont list people gallerys

            Comment

            • DarkJedi
              No Refunds Issued.
              • Feb 2001
              • 28301

              #7
              Originally posted by Aussie Rebel
              See what happens when you dont list people gallerys
              bhahahahahaha

              Comment

              • Aussie Rebel
                Blow Me U Geeks
                • Aug 2001
                • 5108

                #8
                Hey patrick how come you only post here is when someone pisses you off?
                Last edited by Aussie Rebel; 07-14-2002, 05:36 AM.

                Comment

                • sarcasticbastard
                  Confirmed User
                  • Oct 2001
                  • 104

                  #9
                  IBill who doesn't allow spamming


                  no offense but please.
                  they gladly accept spam as long
                  as complaints are minimal at least
                  thats what I heard from that
                  one guy who heard it from that
                  other guy who heard it from
                  that one dudes friend.
                  and you notice these things after awhile
                  heard that too.
                  ltrz
                  nope I am still not martin
                  I'm sarcastic
                  Newbies Get Real Info Here! Tgp Avs Search Engines

                  Comment

                  • some_idiot
                    Confirmed User
                    • May 2002
                    • 1511

                    #10
                    As a long time sysadmin, I like to keep a 4.9meg coredump
                    around for just such occassions. 99% of the time if
                    the [email protected] has a box limit, the root/postmaster
                    account doesn't. Blew his admin's file system into the
                    negative and watch how fast someone wants to talk
                    to live on the phone at their expense.


                    This AVS pays my mortgage!

                    Comment

                    • eru
                      Confirmed User
                      • Mar 2002
                      • 2612

                      #11
                      Originally posted by DarkJedi
                      img scr iBill
                      That's an idea. That'll get their attention really fast! Hehehhhehehe. You're lucky Hun -- at least your spam is trace-able to the USA. I get spam from China all the time on my non-business email accounts. There's not way to report that bullshit.
                      <font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Verdana">This thread will self-destruct in 5 seconds.</font><font color="#FFFFFF" face="Verdana"><br>
                      <br>
                      <font size="1">In the meantime, consider hosting with <a href="http://www.choopa.com"><font color="#00FF00">Choopa</font></a>
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                      Comment

                      • shunga
                        Confirmed User
                        • Apr 2001
                        • 994

                        #12
                        Originally posted by The Hun
                        The European Union is working on a proposition to ban all non-double-opt-in mailing lists. I sure hope the US will follow.
                        Double opt-in doesn't mean a thing. How often have you received an email that claims you double opted into something when you know for a fact you haven't? I hate to say it, but spammers will always find a way to spam.
                        Clockwork Cash - ICQ: 355-26-288 / Email: admin AT clockworkcash DOT com
                        Asian Paysites : Exclusive Content : NATS or CCBill
                        Thai Cuties : Shave Asians : JAVondemand

                        Comment

                        • Sex4it
                          Confirmed User
                          • Aug 2001
                          • 784

                          #13
                          Originally posted by DarkJedi
                          img scr iBill
                          Great idea man
                          I'm back and happy about it.

                          Comment

                          • hyper
                            Confirmed User
                            • Mar 2002
                            • 5294

                            #14
                            i dont think he'd img src ibill

                            but he should img src the sites in the email

                            Comment

                            • nocostporn
                              Confirmed User
                              • Mar 2002
                              • 5228

                              #15
                              Originally posted by shunga


                              Double opt-in doesn't mean a thing. How often have you received an email that claims you double opted into something when you know for a fact you haven't? I hate to say it, but spammers will always find a way to spam.

                              um the double opt-in company has to be able to provide a list with IP's of the people they claim opt-ed in ...easy to understand?
                              CashTheChecks.com -coming soon-
                              "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters"
                              ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

                              Comment

                              • nocostporn
                                Confirmed User
                                • Mar 2002
                                • 5228

                                #16
                                btw,go to that webmaster page of the people that spammed hun...go to their board... 1)somebody said there is stolen content 2) JJJ is a proud webmaster for them
                                CashTheChecks.com -coming soon-
                                "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters"
                                ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

                                Comment

                                • wsjb78
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Jun 2002
                                  • 594

                                  #17
                                  I found this a while back:

                                  How to deal with spam from China
                                  [email protected] (Bill Horne)
                                  (smirk, Internet)
                                  [submitter's note: my brother-in-law is a world-class spam fighter, and he sent this along for my amusement. I'm sharing it with his permission.]
                                  The government just ordered all ISPs in China to start monitoring email for subversive phrases and the like, so I started replying to Chinese spam with little replies of the form at the end of this spam. Might be a useful tactic on companies who think that unsolicited email is "just regular advertising."
                                  Bill

                                  "Jack(export manager)" wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Dear Sir
                                  > How are you .
                                  >
                                  > We are a lighting factory in China ,It is glad
                                  > to introduce ourselves to you:
                                  >
                                  > I am XUBIN (Jack) , XUBIN is my chinese name , you can just
                                  > call me Jack !! , I am export manager of [deleted] ,
                                  > China, our group have four factory
                                  [snipped]
                                  >
                                  > Here is our company profile :
                                  >
                                  [Rest of sales talk snipped]
                                  (And now, the reply)
                                  Thank you for your coded order. The weapons and ammunition will ship by way of the usual route in ten days, and you already know our secret Swiss bank account number to wire the payment to.
                                  It is a pleasure doing business with you for so long, and I hope your cause will prevail. I am new to this particular computer, so I hope the encryption is working and the monitoring authorities cannot read what I am sending you.
                                  Long live the Falun Gong! Free Tibet!
                                  Best regards, Your arms supplier

                                  Comment

                                  • =^..^=
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Jan 2002
                                    • 6935

                                    #18
                                    I hate getting spam liek you mentioned for martgages and instant credit cards shit liek that when I am not even in the US
                                    i get dozens of them everyday

                                    #RememberYourRoots #AaronMForGFYHOF

                                    Comment

                                    • Tipsy
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Jul 2001
                                      • 6989

                                      #19
                                      And...you gotta love the 'this is not spam - you are receiving this e-mail because you requested to do so' they nearly all seem to include at the top these days. Why on earth do they think saying that'll make any difference?

                                      It's almost as bad as the old wares sites that think by saying 'you cannot enter if you are a law enforcement officer' makes them safe
                                      Ignorance is never bliss.

                                      Comment

                                      • HS-Trixxxia
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Mar 2002
                                        • 2946

                                        #20
                                        TheHun,

                                        Isn't there a way to get his host to stop him?
                                        It's against the terms on his host so maybe if you write a letter to them they'll do something about it.

                                        http://bigfasthost.com/terms.htm

                                        Trixxxia

                                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                        Patrizia
                                        COO - MassiveDollars
                                        Email: patrizia at MassiveDollars dot com
                                        ICQ: 465.826.441 Yahoo: trixxxia_me MSN: trixxxia at hotmail dot com

                                        Comment

                                        • mike503
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • May 2002
                                          • 2243

                                          #21
                                          hun put a message on the top of your site telling people to down those servers. heh. you have media-type exposure!

                                          if i got the same email over and over and cannot stop it no matter what i would block the sending server's ip address, since it's usually the same for those emails.

                                          however ever since i posted my spam filter i haven't gotten shit. i'm down to single numbers of spam in the past 3 weeks total!
                                          php/mysql guru. hosting, coding, all that jazz.

                                          Comment

                                          • Fletch XXX
                                            GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                            • Jan 2002
                                            • 60840

                                            #22
                                            image sourcing people for spam, this is getting old.

                                            Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site?

                                            Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

                                            Comment

                                            • Gary
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Aug 2001
                                              • 6110

                                              #23
                                              Hey Hun, just tell Ibill you'll list their galleries.

                                              Up to 35$ per join...!

                                              Comment

                                              • srikanth79
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Jan 2002
                                                • 416

                                                #24
                                                this made me ROFL :

                                                "See what happens when you dont list people gallerys"

                                                and this made me ROFLMAO :

                                                "Thank you for your coded order. The weapons and ammunition will ship by way of the usual route in ten days, and you already know our secret Swiss bank account number to wire the payment to.
                                                It is a pleasure doing business with you for so long, and I hope your cause will prevail. I am new to this particular computer, so I hope the encryption is working and the monitoring authorities cannot read what I am sending you.
                                                Long live the Falun Gong! Free Tibet!
                                                Best regards, Your arms supplier"



                                                Need A Gallery Submitter?
                                                ICQ #117379436

                                                Comment

                                                • shunga
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Apr 2001
                                                  • 994

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by nocostporn
                                                  um the double opt-in company has to be able to provide a list with IP's of the people they claim opt-ed in ...easy to understand?
                                                  The laws we have today on spam are easy to understand, too, but do they stop spammers..?
                                                  Clockwork Cash - ICQ: 355-26-288 / Email: admin AT clockworkcash DOT com
                                                  Asian Paysites : Exclusive Content : NATS or CCBill
                                                  Thai Cuties : Shave Asians : JAVondemand

                                                  Comment

                                                  • nocostporn
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Mar 2002
                                                    • 5228

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by shunga


                                                    The laws we have today on spam are easy to understand, too, but do they stop spammers..?


                                                    there are no set laws ya cock... there WILL be i.e. double opt-in is the only way you can mail legally...thats not to say people will follow it but they will pay the consequence eventually...
                                                    CashTheChecks.com -coming soon-
                                                    "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters"
                                                    ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

                                                    Comment

                                                    • SetTheWorldonFire
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • Feb 2002
                                                      • 7444

                                                      #27
                                                      I just bought a domain and set up a pop3 account. Guess what? I checked my mail and had fucken spam already.
                                                      www.STWOFDesign.com
                                                      hit me up on icq 154206276 or Skype: JaimeGizzle

                                                      Comment

                                                      • funkmaster
                                                        So Fucking Banned
                                                        • Sep 2001
                                                        • 7938

                                                        #28
                                                        "I get spammed by some lame ass saying I opted-in for his mailing list."

                                                        .. who gives a fuck ?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • alias
                                                          aliasx
                                                          • Apr 2001
                                                          • 19010

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by funkmaster
                                                          "I get spammed by some lame ass saying I opted-in for his mailing list."

                                                          .. who gives a fuck ?
                                                          noone
                                                          https://porncorporation.com

                                                          Comment

                                                          • nocostporn
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Mar 2002
                                                            • 5228

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by funkmaster
                                                            "I get spammed by some lame ass saying I opted-in for his mailing list."

                                                            .. who gives a fuck ?

                                                            um the people who dont opt-in give a fuck...if you're proud to be a spammer why make up shit and say somebody opt-ed in?

                                                            I'm tired of people saying they are playing devils advocate "oh i dont spam but i dont care that other people do"... i actually find that hard to believe... spammers defend spammers... who else would?
                                                            CashTheChecks.com -coming soon-
                                                            "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters"
                                                            ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

                                                            Comment

                                                            • .:Frog:.
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Jul 2002
                                                              • 2123

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by funkmaster
                                                              "I get spammed by some lame ass saying I opted-in for his mailing list."

                                                              .. who gives a fuck ?
                                                              People who don't like spam!!!
                                                              I think 99% of all internet users hate spam, but 1% of the population reads & buys from spam.
                                                              <a href="http://www.pornopayouts.com/?rid=pp3076">PornoPayouts</a>
                                                              Tons of Hosted Galleries.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • shunga
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Apr 2001
                                                                • 994

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by nocostporn
                                                                there are no set laws ya cock... there WILL be i.e. double opt-in is the only way you can mail legally...thats not to say people will follow it but they will pay the consequence eventually...
                                                                Bad choice of words. But when people can get shut down for spamming, I'd say there were at least regulations against it, wouldn't you? And yet some people still do it, and still profit from it. What does that tell you? Re-read The Hun's post if you're still feeling a little naive.
                                                                Clockwork Cash - ICQ: 355-26-288 / Email: admin AT clockworkcash DOT com
                                                                Asian Paysites : Exclusive Content : NATS or CCBill
                                                                Thai Cuties : Shave Asians : JAVondemand

                                                                Comment

                                                                • nocostporn
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Mar 2002
                                                                  • 5228

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by shunga


                                                                  Bad choice of words. But when people can get shut down for spamming, I'd say there were at least regulations against it, wouldn't you? And yet some people still do it, and still profit from it. What does that tell you? Re-read The Hun's post if you're still feeling a little naive.

                                                                  I live in Maryland...There are NO laws against spamming,and that goes for most of the country and the world... People will continue to do it until its almost certain you will get caught...Once it gets reported on the news Bobby from FSU was caught spamming and has a 5 million dollar fine... *Most* people will begin to think twice...
                                                                  Perhaps you should read what hun said so you dont feel naive...laws will start to be enforced for non-double-opt-in mailings... as of now,there are no consequences in most states and countries... once there is,you will see a decrease... follow the plot my boy..follow
                                                                  CashTheChecks.com -coming soon-
                                                                  "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters"
                                                                  ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • funkmaster
                                                                    So Fucking Banned
                                                                    • Sep 2001
                                                                    • 7938

                                                                    #34
                                                                    ... the guy has banners of beastiality all over his webpage, he redirects german surfers to auto dialer pages ... and now everybody should care about him getting spamed ... get your finger out and get a life dickhead !!!

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • alias
                                                                      aliasx
                                                                      • Apr 2001
                                                                      • 19010

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by funkmaster
                                                                      ... the guy has banners of beastiality all over his webpage, he redirects german surfers to auto dialer pages ... and now everybody should care about him getting spamed ... get your finger out and get a life dickhead !!!
                                                                      hahaha
                                                                      https://porncorporation.com

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • shunga
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Apr 2001
                                                                        • 994

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by nocostporn
                                                                        as of now,there are no consequences in most states and countries...
                                                                        No consequences..? If that's the case, why is The Hun emailing IBill..? Why contact his host, his sponsor..? Of course there are consequences for spamming, but the numbers are always the bottom line in this business.
                                                                        Clockwork Cash - ICQ: 355-26-288 / Email: admin AT clockworkcash DOT com
                                                                        Asian Paysites : Exclusive Content : NATS or CCBill
                                                                        Thai Cuties : Shave Asians : JAVondemand

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • B40
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Jul 2001
                                                                          • 7020

                                                                          #37
                                                                          I say all the big sites get together and img src a diff spammer each week.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • nocostporn
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Mar 2002
                                                                            • 5228

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by shunga


                                                                            No consequences..? If that's the case, why is The Hun emailing IBill..? Why contact his host, his sponsor..? Of course there are consequences for spamming, but the numbers are always the bottom line in this business.

                                                                            because they have a TOS against it? because it makes their business look bad? ... don't preach business ethics to me son,numbers are the bottomline in this business is spoking like a true cheat... I heard CP makes a lot of dough too... money IS the bottomline right?... get out of here ya got damn spammer
                                                                            CashTheChecks.com -coming soon-
                                                                            "Exclusive sites for Exclusive Webmasters"
                                                                            ICQ-119966868,add me first don't message

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • shunga
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Apr 2001
                                                                              • 994

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by nocostporn
                                                                              because they have a TOS against it? because it makes their business look bad?
                                                                              I'm no expert on this area, but if I'm not mistaken spam is against FTC regulations, or somesuch. I don't have the time or inclination to search them out. I'm out of this thread before it sinks to the level of personal attacks and flames.
                                                                              Clockwork Cash - ICQ: 355-26-288 / Email: admin AT clockworkcash DOT com
                                                                              Asian Paysites : Exclusive Content : NATS or CCBill
                                                                              Thai Cuties : Shave Asians : JAVondemand

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Theo
                                                                                HAL 9000
                                                                                • May 2001
                                                                                • 34515

                                                                                #40
                                                                                i have 400mil opt-in emails,if anyone is interested contact me.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Nysus
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Aug 2001
                                                                                  • 7817

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
                                                                                  i have 400mil opt-in emails,if anyone is interested contact me.
                                                                                  Wow! Cool! Hey man, do you think I could get a deal? I'll give ya $4 for it.. I mean, we've known eachother a long time.... think you could help me out??

                                                                                  Cheers,
                                                                                  Matt
                                                                                  What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

                                                                                  Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

                                                                                  See http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=16744521 and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=948645

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Lickshots
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • Feb 2002
                                                                                    • 271

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by funkmaster
                                                                                    ... the guy has banners of beastiality all over his webpage, he redirects german surfers to auto dialer pages ... and now everybody should care about him getting spamed ... get your finger out and get a life dickhead !!!
                                                                                    Very true. lol

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • quiet
                                                                                      we'll miss you our friend. RIP
                                                                                      • Sep 2001
                                                                                      • 25115

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by DarkJedi
                                                                                      img scr iBill
                                                                                      yeah, there's a good idea. original too.
                                                                                      we'll miss you our friend. RIP

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • vegasdude
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Jul 2001
                                                                                        • 3649

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        beastiality rox
                                                                                        Did you fucking talk to me??!
                                                                                        Who the fuck told you to talk to me??!"

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • 49thParallel
                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                          • Jul 2002
                                                                                          • 1197

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          I find this whole thing kinda ironic. Mr.Hun, as everyone here seems apt to call you...You run a site which allows anyone and their dog to surf for porn with absolutely no age verification service in place.

                                                                                          Now, you come on the board and whine about the absolute balls that anyone would dare to send you spam. Then you wonder why IBill wouldn't both jump and then jump higher at your command. You should be happy that they won't. or else, they and the other credit card processors may just get a complaint from a pissed off parent, and without question, they will pull the plug on any affiliate programs or advertising billing you may run off of your site. Or, perhaps, as you seem to be suggesting, a pissed off parent may decide to shut your servers down, either through a passive complaint to the upstream provider or through an agressive hacking attack on your servers.

                                                                                          My point is, we are all in a business that will tend to ruffle some feathers. Get off your high horse and realize what you are doing in most peoples eyes is definately not any more righteous then spam. And, I don't care if one of the practices (TGP) may be more legal in the eyes of the law then the other (spam). And, yes, I do post to TGP's myself. (Not yours though- to much effort and time to get listed.)

                                                                                          So, what I am saying is Suck it up!!

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • hybrid
                                                                                            So Fucking Banned
                                                                                            • Jul 2002
                                                                                            • 3253

                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Well put, 49th

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                                                                                            • Theo
                                                                                              HAL 9000
                                                                                              • May 2001
                                                                                              • 34515

                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by Nysus


                                                                                              Wow! Cool! Hey man, do you think I could get a deal? I'll give ya $4 for it.. I mean, we've known eachother a long time.... think you could help me out??

                                                                                              Cheers,
                                                                                              Matt
                                                                                              sure,although it took me long time to create this list. I had to personally contact 400mil people to verify the like to see any short of offers in the future. Verification process was done through mail,fax or phone.

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • [Labret]
                                                                                                Registered User
                                                                                                • May 2001
                                                                                                • 10945

                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by 49thParallel
                                                                                                I find this whole thing kinda ironic. Mr.Hun, as everyone here seems apt to call you...You run a site which allows anyone and their dog to surf for porn with absolutely no age verification service in place.

                                                                                                Now, you come on the board and whine about the absolute balls that anyone would dare to send you spam. Then you wonder why IBill wouldn't both jump and then jump higher at your command.
                                                                                                He does have quite the ego. From what I was told by a couple of Dutch studs, the Dutch generally dislike arrogance.

                                                                                                Its like if Sleazydream and 12Clicks had a baby.

                                                                                                Scary thought.

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • Theo
                                                                                                  HAL 9000
                                                                                                  • May 2001
                                                                                                  • 34515

                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  dutch version of google ;)

                                                                                                  http://www.googel.nl

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • Theo
                                                                                                    HAL 9000
                                                                                                    • May 2001
                                                                                                    • 34515

                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    is there any american citizen left without having signed a mortgage?

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