Why has ATHEISM failed to catch on?

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  • pimplink
    Confirmed User
    • Jun 2001
    • 9535

    #1

    Why has ATHEISM failed to catch on?

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0803/p...gn.html?s=entb

    EXCERPT:

    Atheism envisioned a glorious future for a humanity freed from outdated religious dogmas and restrictions, with unlimited potential provided by scientific advancement and the human imagination. Human beings could not only be good without God, but much better.

    The reality has been very different. Along with progress, scientific advance brought environmental devastation and the potential to eliminate human life. Atheistic regimes dominating a huge proportion of the globe created new forms of tyranny (including mind control) and executed unprecedented millions.

    At the same time, many arguments failed to hold up. "No major historian of science now takes seriously the idea that science and religion are in perpetual conflict," McGrath says.

    While some, like Richard Dawkins, continue to insist on atheism, his fellow Darwinist, Stephen Jay Gould, countered that Darwinism has no bearing on the existence of God: "We neither affirm nor deny it; we simply can't comment on it as scientists." A 1996 survey showed that 40 percent of scientists hold religious beliefs.

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  • baddog
    So Fucking Banned
    • Apr 2001
    • 107089

    #2
    it provides no hope

    Comment

    • pimplink
      Confirmed User
      • Jun 2001
      • 9535

      #3
      Originally posted by baddog
      it provides no hope
      Define "hope"? An afterlife? An explanation or a theory with predictive power?

      Or basically an ethereal appeal to a "sense of meaning"?

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      • AgentCash
        Confirmed User
        • Feb 2002
        • 720

        #4
        http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/sci_relig.htm

        Larson and Witham present the results of a replication of 1913 and 1933 surveys by James H. Leuba. In those surveys, Leuba mailed a questionnaire to leading scientists asking about their belief in "a God in intellectual and affective communication with humankind" and in "personal immortality". Larson and Witham used the same wording [as in the Leuba studies], and sent their questionnaire to 517 members of the [U.S.] National Academy of Sciences from the biological and physical sciences (the latter including mathematicians, physicists and astronomers). The return rate was slightly over 50%.

        The results were as follows (figures in %):

        BELIEF IN PERSONAL GOD 1914 1933 1998

        Personal belief         &n bsp;        27.7   15   7.0
        Personal disbelief         &n bsp;    52.7   68 &n bsp; 72.2
        Doubt or agnosticism         20.9   17 &n bsp; 20.8

        BELIEF IN IMMORTALITY 1914 1933 1998

        Personal belief 35.2 18 7.9
        Personal disbelief 25.4 53 76.7
        Doubt or agnosticism 43.7 29 23.3

        Note: The 1998 immortality figures add up to more than 100%. The misprint is in the original. The 76.7% is likely too high.

        Comment

        • cherrylula
          lol
          • Jan 2002
          • 15969

          #5
          It has and is catching on. The more crazed the christians get the more people become Atheists. I see it more and more all the time.

          Christianity will be a silly thing of the past someday. Of course there will always be those who must hang on.

          Comment

          • pimplink
            Confirmed User
            • Jun 2001
            • 9535

            #6
            Is disbelief the only foreseeable/probable option? Since you mentioned a particular religion... maybe people would switch religious 'flavors' similar to people trying out Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism back in the 60's?

            Originally posted by cherrylula
            It has and is catching on. The more crazed the christians get the more people become Atheists. I see it more and more all the time.

            Christianity will be a silly thing of the past someday. Of course there will always be those who must hang on.

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            • Bill8
              Confirmed User
              • Oct 2001
              • 1901

              #7
              Fear.

              Cowardice.

              Indoctrination as children.

              Trauma. "no atheists in foxholes".

              Herd behavior. Security within the herd.

              Comment

              • Fletch XXX
                GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                • Jan 2002
                • 60840

                #8
                Originally posted by baddog
                it provides no hope
                most of us do not need hope.

                the population is growing.

                hope is for people who have not lived a real life.

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                • cherrylula
                  lol
                  • Jan 2002
                  • 15969

                  #9
                  Trying out other religions is silly imo. But sure I suppose some may go that route.

                  Personally once someone has had enough bullshit from any religion they usually come around.

                  I've been an atheist since I was about 16 and have never swayed. And things I have seen in my life have only secured my beliefs in no heaven and hell.

                  We're all just a bunch of energy particles. Let science show you the way.
                  Last edited by cherrylula; 08-14-2004, 08:40 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Thrawn$
                    Confirmed User
                    • Apr 2002
                    • 4596

                    #10
                    Because GOD exist
                    like it or not
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                    • cherrylula
                      lol
                      • Jan 2002
                      • 15969

                      #11
                      People fail to realize how enormous the universe is, and then some.

                      Where is this "God" people speak of? Is he in the next galaxy?

                      Comment

                      • pimplink
                        Confirmed User
                        • Jun 2001
                        • 9535

                        #12
                        Originally posted by cherrylula

                        We're all just a bunch of energy particles. Let science show you the way.
                        Sounds like a religious statement to me. Eliades ("Sacred and The Profane") defines religion as a belief that EXPLAINS phenomena and has PREDICTIVE value. Your statement of "we're all just a bunch of energy particles" is a statement of causation/explaining existence. While your statement "let science show you the way" has a predictive value in that all things can be explained by science.

                        Religion in a different wrapper?

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                        • Fletch XXX
                          GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                          • Jan 2002
                          • 60840

                          #13
                          pimplink, how can religion be predictive?

                          what has religion ever predicted?

                          and what does being energy particles have to do with any of that?

                          what a joke.

                          science and religion are different. do not fool yourself by combining the two

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                          • cherrylula
                            lol
                            • Jan 2002
                            • 15969

                            #14
                            Originally posted by pimplink
                            Sounds like a religious statement to me. Eliades ("Sacred and The Profane") defines religion as a belief that EXPLAINS phenomena and has PREDICTIVE value. Your statement of "we're all just a bunch of energy particles" is a statement of causation/explaining existence. While your statement "let science show you the way" has a predictive value in that all things can be explained by science.

                            Religion in a different wrapper?
                            oh gimme a break. Because of the structure of my sentences you are calling religion?

                            Ok, so educate yourself on science, not the bible. What the hell do you want me to say?

                            I am far from a religious person.

                            science = facts

                            religion = bullshit
                            Last edited by cherrylula; 08-14-2004, 08:45 AM.

                            Comment

                            • pimplink
                              Confirmed User
                              • Jun 2001
                              • 9535

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Fletch XXX
                              pimplink you are an idiot

                              how can religion be predictive?

                              what has religion ever predicted?

                              and what does being energy particles have to do with any of that?

                              what a joke.
                              Thanks for the conclusory statements, I'm sure there was a lot of logic and nuanced deliberation before you arrived there.

                              Anyway, anthropologists like Eliades view religion as predictive in that it is a set of beliefs that seeks to predict human actions.
                              It is not predictive in the scientific sense. It predicts in the ideological/psychological sense. For example: A Hindu believes in reincarnation (the cycle of SAMSARA). In this belief system, the 'knowledge' is that one's karma will result (PREDICTION) in reincarnation either as a lower, same, or higher being.

                              Same 'predictive' dynamics of religion is in play with Christians. You BELIEVE that Jesus is your savior and you live your life accordingly. Hence, there's a predictive value that you will GO TO HEAVEN.

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                              • Pleasurepays
                                BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES
                                • Aug 2002
                                • 11913

                                #16
                                Originally posted by baddog
                                it provides no hope

                                Comment

                                • pimplink
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Jun 2001
                                  • 9535

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by cherrylula
                                  oh gimme a break. Because of the structure of my sentences you are calling religion?

                                  Ok, so educate yourself on science, not the bible. What the hell do you want me to say?

                                  I am far from a religious person.

                                  science = facts

                                  religion = bullshit
                                  I just looked at the pattern of your logic and just had to laugh that your disbelief is grounded more in your distaste in religion (namely Christian) than in any disbelief.

                                  In essence, you transferred your belief from 'bullshit' (religion) to 'facts' (science)

                                  Nothing wrong with that, I was just pointing out your logic (fraught with emotionalism as it is).

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                                  • cherrylula
                                    lol
                                    • Jan 2002
                                    • 15969

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by pimplink
                                    Same 'predictive' dynamics of religion is in play with Christians. You BELIEVE that Jesus is your savior and you live your life accordingly. Hence, there's a predictive value that you will GO TO HEAVEN.
                                    And where is this Heaven? In a dead person's mind? Not possible.

                                    Comment

                                    • BRISK
                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                      • Feb 2003
                                      • 12240

                                      #19
                                      I don't know many cultures in the world where being an atheist is a benefit. Conforming to a religion is much easier. Being an atheist is not easy.
                                      I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do,
                                      I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.

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                                      • Fletch XXX
                                        GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                        • Jan 2002
                                        • 60840

                                        #20
                                        i learned more in 5th grade being taught by nuns.

                                        i think ill close this boring thread

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                                        • pimplink
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Jun 2001
                                          • 9535

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by cherrylula
                                          And where is this Heaven? In a dead person's mind? Not possible.
                                          I'm not arguing there's a heaven (far far from it) I'm just providing an example of religion's 'predictive' abilities when it comes to 'faith systems.'

                                          One thing is clear. Regardless of what you believe, human's have an innate desire to ask WHY do things exist and WHAT WILL happen to these things.

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                                          • pimplink
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Jun 2001
                                            • 9535

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Fletch XXX
                                            i learned more in 5th grade being taught by nuns.

                                            i think ill close this boring thread
                                            Remember, boys and girls, ad hominems do not arguments make

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                                            • cherrylula
                                              lol
                                              • Jan 2002
                                              • 15969

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by pimplink
                                              I just looked at the pattern of your logic and just had to laugh that your disbelief is grounded more in your distaste in religion (namely Christian) than in any disbelief.

                                              In essence, you transferred your belief from 'bullshit' (religion) to 'facts' (science)

                                              Nothing wrong with that, I was just pointing out your logic (fraught with emotionalism as it is).
                                              Most of my experiences with religious people were either christian or catholic. This does not mean I might like another religion. I was not raised praying or believing in a higher god.

                                              And yes in addition to my beliefs, I have had my issues with christians and sick religious people that have given me reason to dislike them even more.

                                              But had they been another stupid religion, I'd be bashing them too. Its simple.

                                              Comment

                                              • buzzard
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Aug 2002
                                                • 1276

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Thrawn$
                                                Because GOD exist
                                                like it or not
                                                Ask him if he loves delusional lunatics

                                                Comment

                                                • benc
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Jan 2002
                                                  • 788

                                                  #25
                                                  Its not a viable believe system because it closes doors and oversimplifies.

                                                  Athiest are no different than the radical religious. Just on different ends of the spectrum.

                                                  Agnostic is a better path. It allows you to keep an open mind and continue the search for the truth.
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                                                  • Libertine
                                                    sex dwarf
                                                    • May 2002
                                                    • 17860

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by benc
                                                    Its not a viable believe system because it closes doors and oversimplifies.

                                                    Athiest are no different than the radical religious. Just on different ends of the spectrum.

                                                    Agnostic is a better path. It allows you to keep an open mind and continue the search for the truth.
                                                    Not really. Do you believe in leprechauns who hide in the forest and have pots of gold?
                                                    If the answer is no, you should realize that the existence of leprechauns has never been disproven - mainly because it's impossible to disprove. The reason you don't believe is that it seems very unlikely based on the information you have.

                                                    The same goes for religions. They all have a very low probability of being true based on the information we have right now.

                                                    Atheism doesn't mean knowing for sure no God exists, it just means not believing one exists. If additional information becomes available, that position could change, just like with any other belief you have.
                                                    /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                    Comment

                                                    • cherrylula
                                                      lol
                                                      • Jan 2002
                                                      • 15969

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by punkworld
                                                      Atheism doesn't mean knowing for sure no God exists, it just means not believing one exists. If additional information becomes available, that position could change, just like with any other belief you have.
                                                      And on that note, (don't laugh at me) I have seen what I believe was some sort of ball of energy thing once, what some would call a ghost. I was with another person who witnessed the same thing, otherwise I would not have given it much thought.

                                                      So in terms of an afterlife, who knows. We might all turn into these shooting light things. But it doesn't have anything to do with a "god".

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Odin88
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Jul 2003
                                                        • 3267

                                                        #28
                                                        I don't believe in any particular religion, and although I could of come close to becomming an atheist on further thought I turned away. Even if science can prove what sparked off the very start of our universe, there must of course been something there to at first cause that very spark.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • RicardoB
                                                          Confirmed User
                                                          • Jan 2004
                                                          • 2576

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Thrawn$
                                                          Because GOD exist
                                                          like it or not
                                                          Bow down to the mighty Juicifer!

                                                          Comment

                                                          • DTK
                                                            Confirmed User
                                                            • Feb 2002
                                                            • 4546

                                                            #30
                                                            The concept of some gaseous vertebrate named 'god' just cracks me up
                                                            Arguing whether the Democratic or Republican party is better is like debating which steaming pile of shit is slightly less stinky.

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                                                            • Gunni
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Apr 2003
                                                              • 2385

                                                              #31
                                                              I don't belive in God, and not so much in sience either,
                                                              there are too many things that science can't explain, and too many rules of physics get broken all the time.
                                                              It's not long since sience said the in theory bumble bees couldn't fly, but as any one that has ever seen one can tell you they can, so they had to re-write a bunch of rules to accommodate the bumble bees

                                                              I do how ever belive in Aliens, and supernatural stuff like ghosts
                                                              We are much more than just energy particles and DNA, besides, ebergy never completely disapears...

                                                              Comment

                                                              • panchodog's izzy
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Apr 2004
                                                                • 335

                                                                #32
                                                                Believe in something. Whatever gets you through the day.

                                                                If it's good for you, and it doesn't hurt anybody else, you have yourself a good karma right there...

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                                                                • Giorgio_Xo
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Mar 2003
                                                                  • 4263

                                                                  #33
                                                                  It is difficult to be religious about not being religious.
                                                                  Make Levees, Not War

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                                                                  • CoolE
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Jul 2002
                                                                    • 451

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by pimplink
                                                                    Why has ATHEISM failed to catch on?
                                                                    The funny answer is there is no money it, unlike the alternative.

                                                                    The serious answer is atheism HAS caught on bigtime. In terms of percentage of the poulation there must be 10,000% more atheists than there were 100 years ago. It's just a matter of time; every year that goes by that God fails to make a personal appearance or leave some evidence of his almighty existence creates more atheists.

                                                                    I would have loved to be one of those brave souls who was an atheist about 150 years ago - now that's being a fucking rebel!

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Snake Doctor
                                                                      I'm Lenny2 Bitch
                                                                      • Mar 2001
                                                                      • 13449

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Because there's no money in it.
                                                                      sig too big

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                                                                      • Yngwie
                                                                        I am an Alien from space
                                                                        • May 2003
                                                                        • 11118

                                                                        #36
                                                                        fuck believing in some invisible thing that religion created.. I believe in MYSELF! I don't need some idiotic religion to give my life meaning.
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                                                                        • Mogulman
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Aug 2003
                                                                          • 568

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Thrawn$
                                                                          Because GOD exist
                                                                          like it or not
                                                                          God is a crutch.

                                                                          Its a belief that comforts those who can't handle the fact that there may be no meaning to human existence.

                                                                          I also think belief in a God that specifically shaped the Earth for mankind is the most arrogant thing humans have ever come up with. Countless species have become extinct and I have no doubts that humans will as well without any fanfare. There is no reason to think that humans are the culmination of evolution outside of A. self love and/or B. fear of death.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Drake
                                                                            Hello world!
                                                                            • Mar 2003
                                                                            • 12508

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by baddog
                                                                            it provides no hope
                                                                            Agreed.

                                                                            And while atheism hasn't caught on, being an agnostic has.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • alexg
                                                                              IL4L.com
                                                                              • Aug 2003
                                                                              • 11287

                                                                              #39
                                                                              noone can prove that god does not exist.

                                                                              in my opinion atheists lack self confidence, and they are very influenced, and lack the ability to think outside the box.

                                                                              there is the other type of people, who are uncertein whether god exists or not (forgot what they're called), and that is more then acceptable.

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                                                                              • neewwman
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Jan 2002
                                                                                • 1737

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Atheism has not caught on because . . .

                                                                                . . . most people can't handle the truth.

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                                                                                • alexg
                                                                                  IL4L.com
                                                                                  • Aug 2003
                                                                                  • 11287

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by neewwman
                                                                                  Atheism has not caught on because . . .

                                                                                  . . . most people can't handle the truth.


                                                                                  and where did atheists get that special gift that allows them to state that god for sure does not exist?

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                                                                                  • chupacabra
                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                    • Sep 2002
                                                                                    • 3626

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Topic: Why has ATHEISM failed to catch on?
                                                                                    because handicapped people need crutches..
                                                                                    ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • cherrylula
                                                                                      lol
                                                                                      • Jan 2002
                                                                                      • 15969

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by alexg
                                                                                      in my opinion atheists lack self confidence, and they are very influenced, and lack the ability to think outside the box.
                                                                                      I am an atheist and I am confident enough to say you are a dumbass.

                                                                                      And what is your religion? Aren't you a teenage wanna be pornographer? Your god must love you.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • chupacabra
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Sep 2002
                                                                                        • 3626

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        alt.fuck.the.skull.of.jesus
                                                                                        ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Drake
                                                                                          Hello world!
                                                                                          • Mar 2003
                                                                                          • 12508

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by Mike33
                                                                                          Agreed.

                                                                                          And while atheism hasn't caught on, being an agnostic has.
                                                                                          So too has the 'Reiligion' of Evolution. Under scrtunity the "science" of Evolution doesn't stand up any better than God fearing religions. It's only a theory and one that has very little supporting evidence.

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • cherrylula
                                                                                            lol
                                                                                            • Jan 2002
                                                                                            • 15969

                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by Mike33
                                                                                            So too has the 'Reiligion' of Evolution. Under scrtunity the "science" of Evolution doesn't stand up any better than God fearing religions. It's only a theory and one that has very little supporting evidence.
                                                                                            Now that's funny.

                                                                                            Even incomplete scientific evidence as to how we got here is a bit more solid than some bible tale.

                                                                                            I suppose you believe in immaculate conception too? I hope it never happens to me.

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Rictor
                                                                                              Old Timer
                                                                                              • Jan 2001
                                                                                              • 12208

                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Religion is the opiate of the masses.

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • RRACY
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • Dec 2003
                                                                                                • 1393

                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                The meaning of life=LOVE Without love you are just getting by.
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                                                                                                • pimplink
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                                                  • 9535

                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Rictor
                                                                                                  Religion is the opiate of the masses.
                                                                                                  Although there's truth to that statement by Karl Marx, he failed to see that communism can also be another form of religion as well.

                                                                                                  Explanation for current problems = class exploitation. Predictive factor = class uprising / worker's revolt = workers' paradise/dictatorship of the Proletariat.

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                                                                                                  • Head
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Nov 2003
                                                                                                    • 8278

                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    gay

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