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gotys

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#1

2257 offshore?

06-14-2005, 04:03 AM

Allright, can ANYONE understand the 2257 really? What happens when the owner lives in Europe, but has hosting in USA? Do I have to comply with the 2257? I don't want to move all my servers to Europe for no reason So that is why I hope someone here will have the answer.

Thank you all.

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tgpmakers

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#2

06-14-2005, 04:12 AM

Seems we've got to put 2257 docs up as link on our servers. Best to follow it as to sell to US market.

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#3

06-14-2005, 06:07 AM

Nahh

1. Remove all free porn from all servers.
2. Force surfers to paysites with softcore stuff and text links.

This way surfers wanting a wank will have to fucking pay for it finally.

GOD BLESS AMERICA...
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steffie

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#4

06-14-2005, 06:14 AM

Originally posted by gotys

Allright, can ANYONE understand the 2257 really? What happens when the owner lives in Europe, but has hosting in USA? Do I have to comply with the 2257? I don't want to move all my servers to Europe for no reason So that is why I hope someone here will have the answer.

Thank you all.

I am sorry you didn't get an answer on your question. I am curious myself how we are supposed to work that. Everything is in the US except us..

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mardigras

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#5

06-14-2005, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by MrChips

1. Remove all free porn from all servers.
2. Force surfers to paysites with softcore stuff and text links.

This way surfers wanting a wank will have to fucking pay for it finally.

GOD BLESS AMERICA...

Sounds like a good idea... for p2p users

.
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mardigras

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#6

06-14-2005, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by steffie

I am sorry you didn't get an answer on your question. I am curious myself how we are supposed to work that. Everything is in the US except us..

If any part of your business is located in the US, you fall under the regulations. If you are violating laws with your sites even though you might not be extradited to face any charges they'd shut down the servers in the US.

.
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#7

06-14-2005, 07:04 AM

don't forget about domain names... esp. .com ones

come trade shemale traffic here
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Darrell

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#8

06-14-2005, 07:20 AM

If you live in Europe why not just host in Europe? It's not that hard to move servers and then you know you will be ok. I'm in the process of moving all my servers to a Dutch hosting company. I'm getting more bandwidth and it's cheaper than my US host. I just hope they are as good.
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#9

06-14-2005, 07:22 AM

(4) Producer does not include persons whose activities relating to the visual depiction of actual sexually explicit conduct are limited to the following:

...

(iv) A provider of web-hosting services who does not, and
reasonably cannot, manage the sexually explicit content of the computer site or service; or

(v) A provider of an electronic communication service or remote computing service who does not, and reasonably cannot, manage the sexually explicit content of the computer site or service.

Reference: http://my.execpc.com/~xxxlaw/2257Tables5.24.05.htm

Wouldn't that make a US web hosting company simply providing a server for someone exempt from being charged with anything?

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#10

06-14-2005, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by mardigras

If any part of your business is located in the US, you fall under the regulations. If you are violating laws with your sites even though you might not be extradited to face any charges they'd shut down the servers in the US.
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#11

06-14-2005, 07:28 AM

you should read this thread

they only went to Russia to get these guys.

offshore really works!
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#12

06-14-2005, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by CheneyRumsfeld

you should read this thread

they only went to Russia to get these guys.

offshore really works!

Yeah... but it was for a CP ring.

Would they really go that far for the rest of us pushing regular porn?

I don't endorse a god damn thing......
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GatorB

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#13

06-14-2005, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by ktj4l

(4) Producer does not include persons whose activities relating to the visual depiction of actual sexually explicit conduct are limited to the following:

...

(iv) A provider of web-hosting services who does not, and
reasonably cannot, manage the sexually explicit content of the computer site or service; or

(v) A provider of an electronic communication service or remote computing service who does not, and reasonably cannot, manage the sexually explicit content of the computer site or service.

Reference: http://my.execpc.com/~xxxlaw/2257Tables5.24.05.htm

Wouldn't that make a US web hosting company simply providing a server for someone exempt from being charged with anything?

All that means is THEY can't get busted if someone that they are hosting for is violating 2257. Doesn't mean the DOJ can't order them to shut you down.

As someone has said if you host in the US you have to abide by US laws. If you don't like US laws host in Europe.
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Gawdy

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#14

06-14-2005, 08:03 AM

If you add a 2257 statement to your sites, how would the US authorities know you are not complying?

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keyDet79

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#15

06-14-2005, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by mardigras

If you are violating laws with your sites even though you might not be extradited to face any charges they'd shut down the servers in the US.

'They' have no authority over your servers.

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GatorB

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#16

06-14-2005, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by keyDet79

'They' have no authority over your servers.

If they are in the US 'they' can have them shut down. WTF are you going to do about it? Sue 'them'? if you were running a CP site or a gambling site from US servers they sure as hell could shut you down. This is no different.
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keyDet79

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#17

06-14-2005, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by GatorB

If they are in the US 'they' can have them shut down. WTF are you going to do about it? Sue 'them'? if you were running a CP site or a gambling site from US servers they sure as hell could shut you down. This is no different.

I'm tired of reading it, 'they' don't shut down your server, your host does. If your host shuts you down for something idiotic like a notice on how bad you are by not showing a valid 2257 statement, you should have switched a long time ago. Yes, 'they' can threaten with a lawsuit after a period of time, if they have the budget for it, and you are still in business by that time, or still on your US machine.

2257 is not the end of the world, I mean come on.

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Gawdy

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#18

06-14-2005, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by GatorB

If they are in the US 'they' can have them shut down. WTF are you going to do about it? Sue 'them'? if you were running a CP site or a gambling site from US servers they sure as hell could shut you down. This is no different.

How would they know your not complying? If you have a 2257 statement, how would they know if you are or are not complying?

hello
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Gawdy

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#19

06-14-2005, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by keyDet79

I'm tired of reading it, 'they' don't shut down your server, your host does. If your host shuts you down for something idiotic like a notice on how bad you are by not showing a valid 2257 statement, you should have switched a long time ago. Yes, 'they' can threaten with a lawsuit after a period of time, if they have the budget for it, and you are still in business by that time, or still on your US machine.

2257 is not the end of the world, I mean come on.

That is exactly what Mike from Webair said on a UK webmasters forum. The host will not shut you down.

But it doesnt matter anyway, as the DOJ has no way of knowing if a non US citizen is complient or not, so makes no difference

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keyDet79

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#20

06-14-2005, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by Gawdy

How would they know your not complying? If you have a 2257 statement, how would they know if you are or are not complying?

Exactly, and it's not up to your host to figure it out.

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Gawdy

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#21

06-14-2005, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by keyDet79

Exactly, and it's not up to your host to figure it out.

I read thread after thread and no one has yet to explain how the DOJ can check your records in another country.

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GatorB

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#22

06-14-2005, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Gawdy

How would they know your not complying? If you have a 2257 statement, how would they know if you are or are not complying?

Assuming you are going to do that. If someone believes they shouldn't have to listen to US laws WHY would they bother with a 2257 page, fake or not? Those are the people I'm refering too.
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#23

06-14-2005, 10:03 AM

Aren't hosts exempt?

Questions?

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GatorB

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#24

06-14-2005, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Gawdy

I read thread after thread and no one has yet to explain how the DOJ can check your records in another country.

If you hosting in the US and you do not have even a 2257 page( fake or real ) then you are in violation right then and there. As I stated ther will be MANY non-USwebmaster that will continue to host in the US and think "Fuck the US and their stupid laws" and not even bother taking the 5 minutes out of their day to make a fake 2257 page just out of spite. And as I've stated those are the ones I'm talking about.
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GatorB

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#25

06-14-2005, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by justsexxx

Aren't hosts exempt?

The HOST is exempt not YOU.
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Gawdy

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#26

06-14-2005, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by GatorB

Assuming you are going to do that. If someone believes they shouldn't have to listen to US laws WHY would they bother with a 2257 page, fake or not? Those are the people I'm refering too.

Youll find two types of non US site I guess. Site 1, has no connection with the U.S at all, no US billing, no US hosting and wont bother with the 2257 statement. Then youll have site 2, they may have US billing or hosting, so to play it safe they will put a statement up. That will be the end of it.

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#27

06-14-2005, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Gawdy

Youll find two types of non US site I guess. Site 1, has no connection with the U.S at all, no US billing, no US hosting and wont bother with the 2257 statement. Then youll have site 2, they may have US billing or hosting, so to play it safe they will put a statement up. That will be the end of it.

I think there will be a sizable amount of non-US webmasters that will still have US hosting that will not "play it safe". IF they get shut down then that's their own fault. They won't have my pity.
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thewebgarage

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#28

06-14-2005, 10:11 AM

Darrell what Dutch company are you going with?

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Theo

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#29

06-14-2005, 10:12 AM

.com propagates in few minutes now,if they shut you down you move to EU hosting overnight. I'm more than sure this scenarion won't happen.
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Gawdy

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#30

06-14-2005, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by GatorB

I think there will be a sizable amount of non-US webmasters that will still have US hosting that will not "play it safe". IF they get shut down then that's their own fault. They won't have my pity.

Yep and in that worse case scenario you talk of, if they have had no warning at all they will have to wait a whole 15 minutes while their domain propogates to a non US host

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#31

06-14-2005, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by GatorB

The HOST is exempt not YOU.

And YOU(me) is in Europe.

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GatorB

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#32

06-14-2005, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by justsexxx

And YOU(me) is in Europe.

And are YOU hosting in the US because that's what this is about if not then WTF are you butting in this for?
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GatorB

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#33

06-14-2005, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by Gawdy

Yep and in that worse case scenario you talk of, if they have had no warning at all they will have to wait a whole 15 minutes while their domain propogates to a non US host

Isn't all their shit on the US server? Unless they have a back up of all the stuff on their sites somewhere else, all their shit will be wiped out.
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#34

06-14-2005, 10:27 AM

One call to your server provider will get you shut down and in need of European hosting.

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Gawdy

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#35

06-14-2005, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by GatorB

Isn't all their shit on the US server? Unless they have a back up of all the stuff on their sites somewhere else, all their shit will be wiped out.

Your pissing up a rope dude with this argument.

1. The DOJ has no way of checking if a non US site is compliant or not
2. Your host wont know if your compliant , cant check if your compliant and as many have said inclusing Webair, wont shut you down.
3. If they do you move to a non US host in minutes
4. Yes most people have back ups of there site, they usually build them on their computer before they go up to a host.

Im not sure who your trying to convince with this argument that doesnt hold up with anyone, you or everyone else?

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GatorB

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#36

06-14-2005, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by Gawdy

Your pissing up a rope dude with this argument.

WTF is your deal. Try READING what I write and stop the hate.

1. The DOJ has no way of checking if a non US site is compliant or not

If you do not have a 2257 page you are not in compliance. It's that simple. What part of that don't you get yet. You could have all your records straight and just not having a 2257 page put you in non compliance.

2. Your host wont know if your compliant , cant check if your compliant and as many have said inclusing Webair, wont shut you down.

It's not the hosts job to check. If the DOJ sees you site and sees that you don't have the 2257 page they can make your US host shut you down. Don't think they can't. You US host does NOT have a choice, unless they want to go to jail.

3. If they do you move to a non US host in minutes

So why not do it now. Not goingto do you any good AFTER all your shit has been wiped clean from your US host's server. of course unless you have back-ups somewhere else. You think the DOJ will give you a WARNING first?

4. Yes most people have back ups of there site, they usually build them on their computer before they go up to a host.

Most not ALL.

Im not sure who your trying to convince with this argument that doesnt hold up with anyone, you or everyone else?

What ARGUMENT? So if you ran agambling site on a US host the DJ can't shut it down because gambling sites aren't illegal where you live? Um no it doesn't work that way.

Now please use REASON and LOGIC and quit hating just for hate.
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Gawdy

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#37

06-14-2005, 10:49 AM

No one hates apart from you.

No one can explain to you can they. I'll say it slowley. All a NON US site has to do is put up a 2257 statement, and thats the end of it. The DOJ has no way of checking. Thats it, finito, job done. Its only you with your continuos ramblings that doesnt understand this.

Your boring me now so dont expect a reply to more of your nonsense

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GatorB

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#38

06-14-2005, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Gawdy

No one hates apart from you.

No one can explain to you can they. I'll say it slowley. All a NON US site has to do is put up a 2257 statement, and thats the end of it. The DOJ has no way of checking. Thats it, finito, job done. Its only you with your continuos ramblings that doesnt understand this.

WHY are you arguing when are are in AGREEMENT on webmasters that have a 2257 statement, you moron. Try READING what I write. You're hate blinds you.

My WHOLE point has to do with non-US webmasters that are using US hosting and that DO NOT bother putting up a 2257 statement. That's who I'm have been talking about. You are just trying to argue for forthe sake of arguing or you are stupid. Which is it?
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VeriSexy

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#39

06-14-2005, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by MrChips

1. Remove all free porn from all servers.
2. Force surfers to paysites with softcore stuff and text links.

This way surfers wanting a wank will have to fucking pay for it finally.

GOD BLESS AMERICA...

Too bad there are too many sources of free porn now. We need to find a way to get rid of P2P software

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#40

06-14-2005, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Gawdy

How would they know your not complying? If you have a 2257 statement, how would they know if you are or are not complying?

Asked my lawyer and he told me to have a 2257 statement on my domains ... that's it - the DOJ has no chance to check my papers here in Europe. Pretty easy for us Euros

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GatorB

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#41

06-14-2005, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by tradermcduck

Asked my lawyer and he told me to have a 2257 statement on my domains ... that's it - the DOJ has no chance to check my papers here in Europe. Pretty easy for us Euros

Yes an I have been AGREEMENT with this point. MY point was for those that choose NOT to have a 2257 statement. Too bad some here reading my posts couldn't get past their hatred for Americans to see that.
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PaulC

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#42

06-14-2005, 11:42 AM

I'm an European webmaster and my galleries are hosted on US hosting.
What kind of 2257 page i need to create?
Just one showing the adress of the primary producer or of the custodian of records?
Please explain it and if u can show me an example.
Thanks in advance.
If anybody knows a good cheap european hosting company,please report me the name and the website.
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GatorB

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#43

06-14-2005, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by PaulC

I'm an European webmaster and my galleries are hosted on US hosting.
What kind of 2257 page i need to create?
Just one showing the adress of the primary producer or of the custodian of records?
Please explain it and if u can show me an example.
Thanks in advance.
If anybody knows a good cheap european hosting company,please report me the name and the website.

No that's the OLD 2257 laws. The new 2257 rules state that the secondary producer( that's YOU ) has to have his name and address on the 2257 page. Now being outside the US you could very easily make up a fake name and address and the DOJ isn't going to know.
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#44

06-14-2005, 11:49 AM

I would not use a fake name - register a Ltd. in Gibraltar and put that on your 2257 page - or cheaper use a P. O. Box ...

MarkB
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GatorB

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#45

06-14-2005, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by tradermcduck

I would not use a fake name - register a Ltd. in Gibraltar and put that on your 2257 page - or cheaper use a P. O. Box ...

PO Boxes are NOT allowed. No better way to get the DOJ to investigate futher than to use a POX Box or an LTD registered in a country known allowing fake cotps to set up.
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#46

06-14-2005, 11:56 AM

Read the whole thread , now can anyone suggest a European , reasonable price , excellent support , reliable hosting solution ? Would be best if you have experience with them or atleast reference
? icq 137469529 email [email protected] Thanks

WTF ? I read somewhere up there you have to comply even if you have .com domains ???
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#47

06-14-2005, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by GatorB

PO Boxes are NOT allowed. No better way to get the DOJ to investigate futher than to use a POX Box or an LTD registered in a country known allowing fake cotps to set up.

define fake corps cause it's the 1st time i hear this term :-)
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#48

06-14-2005, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by GatorB

No that's the OLD 2257 laws. The new 2257 rules state that the secondary producer( that's YOU ) has to have his name and address on the 2257 page. Now being outside the US you could very easily make up a fake name and address and the DOJ isn't going to know.

do i need to put only my adress , or also the pirmary producers adresses into the statement ?
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#49

06-14-2005, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Gawdy

If you add a 2257 statement to your sites, how would the US authorities know you are not complying?

What I been wondering as well... what if your complying fully, how are they going to be able to check your docs if you live in another country?
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GatorB

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#50

06-14-2005, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by PantieZ

do i need to put only my adress , or also the pirmary producers adresses into the statement ?

Well if the DOJ want to investigate content that is on YOUR site the want to talk to YOU. When they come to YOUR place to do an investigation you should have the proper docs on you.
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