Why you need the 2257 documents.

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  • Paul Markham
    Too old to care
    • Jun 2001
    • 52942
    #1

    Why you need the 2257 documents.

    This is why.

    Ukraine Model Agency Shut In Child Porn Crackdown

    KIEV, Ukraine - In what police here call part of their biggest child porn crackdown yet, a modeling agency that photographed underage girls and sold images online has been shut down, with at least fifteen people being questioned in a probe in which Ukraine law enforcement had months of help from the FBI.

    Ukraine's deputy head of the Interior Ministry, Vitaly Yarema, told the country's Interfax-Ukraine news agency that the agency, whose name wasn't disclosed, attracted about 1,500 girls from ages eight to sixteen to their three offices, in Kiev, Kharkiv, and Simferopol.

    Yarema said the agency would photograph the girls and then sent the images to the U.S. and Canada by way of Internet channels. Police estimated the agency earned "hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars" over the past three years, Interfax-Ukraine said.

    Police reportedly froze the agency's bank accounts, confiscated video and computer equipment, images of children, financial documents, and a Porsche automobile owned by the agency's organizer, identified only as a Ukraine man in his mid-20s.
    You see not everyone is as squeaky clean as you would like and listing the photographer as the Custodian will not get you off for posting porn of a 16 year old.

    Scary? YES.



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    Tags: None
    • Spunky
      I need a beer
      • Jun 2002
      • 133978
      #2
      True but the small percent of those scumbags fucked it up for the decent law abiding webmasters.

        Comment

        • crockett
          in a van by the river
          • May 2003
          • 76818
          #3
          I don't see any issue at all in having to keep the records however I do see an issue with everyone and their brother having access to models contact info..

          It's not that big of a deal to set up a good filing system, and set up a program to link everything together. But to violate a persons rights to privacy in the pretense of saving the children is a diffrent story.

          just my
          In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.

            Comment

            • Phoenix
              BACON BACON BACON
              • Nov 2002
              • 35475
              #4
              there needs to be a regulating organization

              that holds all the info at a central location or something. they can assign id#'s to different girls...or sets of content or however it is best organised.


              the link should be a guarantee from a custodian of records...not just any dick out there should have private info on people.

              everyone will have to file with the organization, which will need copies on everything before they approve and assign a number

              attach a mechanism that generates money per link or a yearly fee...and you got revenue.
              Last edited by Phoenix; 07-28-2004, 08:28 PM.
              Telegram PhoenixBrad
              https://quantads.io

                Comment

                • Kimmykim
                  bitchslapping zebras!!!!!
                  • Jun 2001
                  • 16015
                  #5
                  I'm still not understanding why people are interpreting this as if they were getting all the info. There's nothing in the documents that some very good attorneys have interpreted as requiring non blacked out copies.

                  Have the copies, yes. They have all agreed on that. But they can still be the blacked out copies.

                  I'd be curious to know who the attorneys are that some people are using and just how they are coming to interpret this.

                    Comment

                    • KRL
                      Entrepreneur
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 31429
                      #6
                      Originally posted by Kimmykim
                      I'm still not understanding why people are interpreting this as if they were getting all the info. There's nothing in the documents that some very good attorneys have interpreted as requiring non blacked out copies.

                      Have the copies, yes. They have all agreed on that. But they can still be the blacked out copies.

                      I'd be curious to know who the attorneys are that some people are using and just how they are coming to interpret this.
                      In my years of dealing with attorneys, I can't recall a single time where two attorneys gave me the same opinion and interpretation. That's the problem with law, you could ask 20 attorneys the same question and get 20 different answers.
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                        Comment

                        • Honeyslut
                          Confirmed User
                          • Jan 2001
                          • 6436
                          #7
                          I think the fuss is more about the amateur models that run their own sites and having to list themselves along with their address as the 2nd producer.
                          http://nakedlunchnews.comWhat's up ? Naked Lunch News !

                            Comment

                            • tony299
                              lurker
                              • Aug 2002
                              • 57021
                              #8
                              Originally posted by Kimmykim
                              I'm still not understanding why people are interpreting this as if they were getting all the info. There's nothing in the documents that some very good attorneys have interpreted as requiring non blacked out copies.

                              Have the copies, yes. They have all agreed on that. But they can still be the blacked out copies.

                              I'd be curious to know who the attorneys are that some people are using and just how they are coming to interpret this.
                              I'm curious who you have spoke to about this. Blacking out information doesnt work. I have heard this from two lawyers, mine and JD at the webmaster access seminar. The people who want to protect models , what about your clients and affiliates going to jail ? IF you were selling to and signing up any warm body , why should people be put at risk of jail for that?

                              Print has been doing this for years. This isnt a new thing.

                              If it doesnt get struck down in court people are going to have be serious filtering clients and affiliates or the content business and the sponsring programs as we know will be over.
                              Last edited by tony286; 07-28-2004, 09:02 PM.

                                Comment

                                • fr8
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • Mar 2003
                                  • 5074
                                  #9
                                  Im glad to see that he got taken down for his cp but it sucks how it affects the industry as a hole.
                                  █ joesmut (a) gmail Dot com
                                  █ Full Stack Developer

                                    Comment

                                    • darnit
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Jul 2001
                                      • 2439
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by KRL
                                      In my years of dealing with attorneys, I can't recall a single time where two attorneys gave me the same opinion and interpretation. That's the problem with law, you could ask 20 attorneys the same question and get 20 different answers.
                                      Ive couldnt agree more and have been bumping into the same walls. Considering their cost you would think a simple "yes" or "no" would be in order. I was under the impression that law was black and white, not shades of grey.... guess the grey keeps the hours spend and thus the bills high

                                        Comment

                                        • KRL
                                          Entrepreneur
                                          • Oct 2002
                                          • 31429
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by darnit
                                          Ive couldnt agree more and have been bumping into the same walls. Considering their cost you would think a simple "yes" or "no" would be in order. I was under the impression that law was black and white, not shades of grey.... guess the grey keeps the hours spend and thus the bills high
                                          Attorneys use this technique to cover their butts. Vague protects them from a lawsuit it they give advice that turns out to be wrong.
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                                          from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION!
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                                            Comment

                                            • Paul Markham
                                              Too old to care
                                              • Jun 2001
                                              • 52942
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by KRL
                                              In my years of dealing with attorneys, I can't recall a single time where two attorneys gave me the same opinion and interpretation. That's the problem with law, you could ask 20 attorneys the same question and get 20 different answers.
                                              Not at the moment, they are all singing the same tune.

                                              GET THE DOCUMENTS OR TAKE DOWN THE CONTENT.

                                              Assuming you're in the US.



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                                                Comment

                                                • tony299
                                                  lurker
                                                  • Aug 2002
                                                  • 57021
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by darnit
                                                  Ive couldnt agree more and have been bumping into the same walls. Considering their cost you would think a simple "yes" or "no" would be in order. I was under the impression that law was black and white, not shades of grey.... guess the grey keeps the hours spend and thus the bills high
                                                  the law is shades of gray for the most part. Shades of gray can save your ass. MY lawyer said alot of it is foggy and you wont know till it goes to court but you want to try to be as close to compliant as possible.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Paul Markham
                                                      Too old to care
                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                      • 52942
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by Kimmykim
                                                      I'm still not understanding why people are interpreting this as if they were getting all the info. There's nothing in the documents that some very good attorneys have interpreted as requiring non blacked out copies.

                                                      Have the copies, yes. They have all agreed on that. But they can still be the blacked out copies.

                                                      I'd be curious to know who the attorneys are that some people are using and just how they are coming to interpret this.
                                                      Can you imagine how it would look if the goverment tried to prosecute you for not having documents with the models home addressed blacked out?

                                                      Even the right wingers would think that over board.



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                                                        Comment

                                                        • tony299
                                                          lurker
                                                          • Aug 2002
                                                          • 57021
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by charly
                                                          Can you imagine how it would look if the goverment tried to prosecute you for not having documents with the models home addressed blacked out?

                                                          Even the right wingers would think that over board.
                                                          Even if you are right it still takes lots of money to go to court to fight.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • iwantchixx
                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                              • Oct 2002
                                                              • 12860
                                                              #16
                                                              correct me if I am wrong, but the public won't see the documents anyways. just an address to where the docs are stored right? THAT part does bother me as I don't want surfers seeing my mailign address.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Paul Markham
                                                                  Too old to care
                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                  • 52942
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by tony404
                                                                  the law is shades of gray for the most part. Shades of gray can save your ass. MY lawyer said alot of it is foggy and you wont know till it goes to court but you want to try to be as close to compliant as possible.
                                                                  I think this will be struck down eventually.

                                                                  Problem is who is going to pay to strike it down. Plus by then Arsehahahahaha will be back in or kicked out and won't give a dam.



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                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Paul Markham
                                                                      Too old to care
                                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                                      • 52942
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by iwantchixx
                                                                      correct me if I am wrong, but the public won't see the documents anyways. just an address to where the docs are stored right? THAT part does bother me as I don't want surfers seeing my mailign address.
                                                                      I still think you can list the producer as the Custodian.

                                                                      But you have to have the documents and are responsible.



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                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Paul Markham
                                                                          Too old to care
                                                                          • Jun 2001
                                                                          • 52942
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Here's a lawyers opinion.

                                                                          It's on another board Netpond, not sure if I should put a link in a invoke Lensmans wrath.



                                                                          Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                                          PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • tony299
                                                                              lurker
                                                                              • Aug 2002
                                                                              • 57021
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by charly
                                                                              I still think you can list the producer as the Custodian.

                                                                              But you have to have the documents and are responsible.
                                                                              A custodian has to be a employee of your company.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Paul Markham
                                                                                  Too old to care
                                                                                  • Jun 2001
                                                                                  • 52942
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by tony404
                                                                                  A custodian has to be a employee of your company.
                                                                                  Well then that means a lot will not be here soon.

                                                                                  I was reading that you had to satisfy certain criteria before you could list yourself as Custodian and could not find what those criteria were.



                                                                                  Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500.
                                                                                  PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • iwantchixx
                                                                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                      • Oct 2002
                                                                                      • 12860
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by charly
                                                                                      I still think you can list the producer as the Custodian.

                                                                                      But you have to have the documents and are responsible.
                                                                                      The secondary producer is custodian as well with these changes right? But here is the kicker, what defines most a secondary producer in one clause also appears as some of the reasons you are exempt in another clause.


                                                                                      I am struggling to udnerstand what all the gray matter is, thank god my employer is consulting a lawyer about this to make sure what we have figured out is true or not.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • iwantchixx
                                                                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                          • Oct 2002
                                                                                          • 12860
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by tony404
                                                                                          A custodian has to be a employee of your company.
                                                                                          'IF' you qualify as needing one.

                                                                                          I wonder though, does the employee HAVE to be an employee? Or could it be yourself?

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Jonathan Quarkschowski
                                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                                              • Jun 2004
                                                                                              • 631
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by charly
                                                                                              This is why.

                                                                                              You see not everyone is as squeaky clean as you would like and listing the photographer as the Custodian will not get you off for posting porn of a 16 year old.

                                                                                              Scary? YES.
                                                                                              you did not read that article, did you?

                                                                                                Comment

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