DOONESBURY Suddenly Dropped By 38 Newspapers...Censorship Charged

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  • ShellyCrash
    Confirmed User
    • Jun 2004
    • 6708
    #51
    Originally posted by jennym
    He bombed an empty training camp! Then what?.......Nothing! Oh yeah....got a B.J. (which isn't a bad thing....he deserved it being married to that bitch of wife)

    And why did it take him 7 years to do that piddly little shit?
    Bin Laden wasn't big time when Clinton took office. It wasn't that long ago when the US was handing out rocket launchers to opium farmers to shoot down USSR choppers. The military tacktics Bin Ladin employs were taught to him mainly by our CIA.

    When Sr. was prez we funded the Taliban reportedly as part of the "war on drugs" because they were burning the opium fields.

    We also sold weapons to both Iraq and Iran, both Palestine and Israel. Danny Pearl, the first video taped beheading, was because (and I'm not saying justified in any way) we ripped the palestinians off when we never supplied the air craft we sold them.

    We should have kept our nose out of the middle east in the 80's. We built our own enemies. In my opinion weapons should never be sold as goods EVER to foreign nations. If someone is in need of defense from the threat of imperialism, that's what the UN is for.

    Just my

    It's been a long day, so I'm laying down my paddle. G'nite

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      • jennym
        Confirmed User
        • May 2003
        • 1622
        #52
        Originally posted by ShellyCrash
        Bin Laden wasn't big time when Clinton took office. It wasn't that long ago when the US was handing out rocket launchers to opium farmers to shoot down USSR choppers. The military tacktics Bin Ladin employs were taught to him mainly by our CIA.

        When Sr. was prez we funded the Taliban reportedly as part of the "war on drugs" because they were burning the opium fields.

        We also sold weapons to both Iraq and Iran, both Palestine and Israel. Danny Pearl, the first video taped beheading, was because (and I'm not saying justified in any way) we ripped the palestinians off when we never supplied the air craft we sold them.

        We should have kept our nose out of the middle east in the 80's. We built our own enemies. In my opinion weapons should never be sold as goods EVER to foreign nations. If someone is in need of defense from the threat of imperialism, that's what the UN is for.

        Just my

        It's been a long day, so I'm laying down my paddle. G'nite
        And, all of that was before Bush. All I am saying is he is not to blame for this crap. And, the U.N. is a joke.

        Have a good night. I have enjoyed the intelligent debate without the usual name calling childhood playground antics.

          Comment

          • ShellyCrash
            Confirmed User
            • Jun 2004
            • 6708
            #53
            Originally posted by jennym
            ShellyCrash

            I am so very sorry you had family members in the towers on that day.

            I thought this deserved it's own post, not to be buried in the middle of a political debate post.
            Thanks Jenny, what happened in the twin towers didn't rock my family like last year when a member of my immidiate family was robbed and killed. In fact this weekend I'm flying out to Vegas for the trial. It just hasn't been a good last few years. On the bright side at least they caught 2 of the kids that did it. I am very thankful for that, I know alot of families don't get this kind of closure. I just gotta learn to keep telling myself that as I sit in the courtroom. I'm flying my best friend out with me so she'll keep me in check.

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              • ShellyCrash
                Confirmed User
                • Jun 2004
                • 6708
                #54
                Originally posted by jennym
                And, all of that was before Bush. All I am saying is he is not to blame for this crap. And, the U.N. is a joke.

                Have a good night. I have enjoyed the intelligent debate without the usual name calling childhood playground antics.
                No Problem- any time.

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                  • jennym
                    Confirmed User
                    • May 2003
                    • 1622
                    #55
                    Originally posted by ShellyCrash
                    Thanks Jenny, what happened in the twin towers didn't rock my family like last year when a member of my immidiate family was robbed and killed. In fact this weekend I'm flying out to Vegas for the trial. It just hasn't been a good last few years. On the bright side at least they caught 2 of the kids that did it. I am very thankful for that, I know alot of families don't get this kind of closure. I just gotta learn to keep telling myself that as I sit in the courtroom. I'm flying my best friend out with me so she'll keep me in check.
                    Best of luck to you, and my thoughts will be with you.

                      Comment

                      • CamChicks
                        Confirmed User
                        • Sep 2003
                        • 1552
                        #56
                        Originally posted by jennym
                        What do you mean he was baited? You have to remember that we have basically ignored terrorists for 20 years. Did the attacks stop? NO! They got worse, and they came to our country more than once. You can only take so much before it is time to kick someone's ass. Or, should Bush have invited Osama over for tea and crumpets to find out if there was a way to make him happy?
                        one more time:

                        Osama hated Saddam. He has often called Saddam a "bad muslim" and an "infidel" in interviews. He has made this public knowledge for a decade. He couldn't stand to see an islamic nation run by a secular government; a man (Saddam) who fought against Iran (islamic theocracy), who killed 'holy clerics' and any other islamic fundamentalists who challenged him. As long as Saddam was in power, Iraq could never be an Islamic State. That is Osama's goal - to have the entire region governed by Islamic Law.

                        Osama had been calling for Saddam to be overthrown for years prior to 9/11. But he couldn't do it himself. 9/11 was Osama asking George W Bush to pretty please, with ice cream and cherries on top, please attack Iraq. He wants to start a war between the Islamic nations and the west. To get the western 'infidels' (non-believers) out of their holy land.

                        Osamas goal was NOT to crash planes into the WTC and the pentagon. That was a tactic.

                        What Bush gave Osama was much nicer than "tea and crumpets". He defeated Osamas enemy for him. And, at the same time, shifted all of Islam (previously, mostly 'moderate') into hardline positions against America - in preparation for this war Osama wants. If we had not attacked Iraq, Osama would still be stuck with no more than a few thousand supporters. Now, he has millions. And Iraq is free to fall into control of the fundamentalists. Osama says thank you.

                        camchicks.com

                          Comment

                          • Pleasurepays
                            BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES
                            • Aug 2002
                            • 11913
                            #57
                            tinfoil hats anyone?

                            Osama Bin Laden was attacking the US long before 9/11 and it had nothing to do with Iraq.

                            Here is a strange thought... maybe he just hates the US because of Isreal and bases in Saudi Arabia... just like he said.

                            Why is everything a fucking massive conspiracy kept secret by an impossible number of people and only fully understood by socially retarded message board personalities?
                            Last edited by Pleasurepays; 07-21-2004, 11:59 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Ironhorse
                                Pixel Pusher
                                • Nov 2002
                                • 7094
                                #58
                                Originally posted by jennym
                                BUT I am sure glad he was in office onl 9-11 and not Al Bore....er....Gore. The terrorists would have probably blown up half the fucking country before Gore even got up the balls to make an ugly face.
                                There is a good chance 9/11 might not have happened if Gore had been elected..
                                [email protected]

                                  Comment

                                  • johnbosh
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Aug 2002
                                    • 8965
                                    #59
                                    there goes freedom of speech

                                      Comment

                                      • CamChicks
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Sep 2003
                                        • 1552
                                        #60
                                        Originally posted by Pleasurepays
                                        tinfoil hats anyone?

                                        Osama Bin Laden was attacking the US long before 9/11 and it had nothing to do with Iraq.
                                        Just because he had to ask more than once doesn't mean he wasn't asking. He just had to ask louder. He wanted the USA to strike out at Islamic countries to win support for his cause. Most muslims weren't buying it - until Iraq.


                                        Originally posted by Pleasurepays
                                        Here is a strange thought... maybe he just hates the US because of Isreal and bases in Saudi Arabia... just like he said.
                                        He wants 'infidels' out of the entire region. Iraq included. This is a holy crusade. He wants one united arab state governed by islamic law. That's his motivation. Saddam was one obstacle to that. Israel is another.

                                        Originally posted by Pleasurepays
                                        Why is everything a fucking massive conspiracy kept secret by an impossible number of people and only fully understood by socially retarded message board personalities?
                                        I am not speaking about anything that isn't public record - direct from Osamas mouth - in interviews and press conferences and tape recordings. The only 'conspiracy' is when american media outlets convince americans that the terrorists attack us because they 'are jealous of our freedom'. The real reason is that we, as outsiders, have been messing around in their business and politics for a very long time and they're sick of it.

                                        camchicks.com

                                          Comment

                                          • mardigras
                                            Bon temps!
                                            • Feb 2003
                                            • 14194
                                            #61
                                            Originally posted by Pleasurepays
                                            i dont think it is censorship at all if you read the article. there was an issue with constant complaints with his work. they let the people that carry the cartoon take a vote on whether they would keep it or not... they chose not.

                                            doesn't get more democratic than that.
                                            Well that is not what happened here. If that were the case the individual newspapers should have been the ones to make the choice to remove the strip, instead of a "committee" making a single decision for readers in MANY different environments and community standards. Did every paper they run across the southeast get complaints? Also not mentioned in this thread is that no other comic was put up for vote, although as you can see from this thread there are other comics people have issues with.

                                            This is no more censorship than Clear Channel dumping Howard Stern from it's stations.

                                            It does highlight the problems that arise when one company is allowed to own too much media.
                                            .

                                              Comment

                                              • jennym
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • May 2003
                                                • 1622
                                                #62
                                                Originally posted by CamChicks
                                                Just because he had to ask more than once doesn't mean he wasn't asking. He just had to ask louder. He wanted the USA to strike out at Islamic countries to win support for his cause. Most muslims weren't buying it - until Iraq.
                                                You think terrorists have been attacking us for all these years because they wanted us to fight back? Please, tell me how you know this? And don't say "Osama said so". That lunatic says whatever needs to be said to get more nutjobs on his side. Personally, I really don't care why they flew planes into buildings full of innocent people. Why don't I care? Because there is no justifiable reason! At this point, we should just kill as many fucking terrorists as we can lay our hands on.

                                                So you think we should let terrorists keep killing innocent people because they want us to come after them? That is just crazy! Since you are so wise, please tell us how you would have handled it? How would you make sure 9-11 didn't happen again? How would you handle terrorists?

                                                  Comment

                                                  • CamChicks
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Sep 2003
                                                    • 1552
                                                    #63
                                                    Originally posted by jennym
                                                    You think terrorists have been attacking us for all these years because they wanted us to fight back? Please, tell me how you know this? And don't say "Osama said so". That lunatic says whatever needs to be said to get more nutjobs on his side. Personally, I really don't care why they flew planes into buildings full of innocent people. Why don't I care? Because there is no justifiable reason! At this point, we should just kill as many fucking terrorists as we can lay our hands on.
                                                    This is why we're fucked. Most americans aren't even interested in knowing WHY 9/11 happened - they just to know who to blame and who to blow up.

                                                    The 'terrorists' are not some crazed mustache-twirling villans from a bad action movie. They are not a race of primitive subhumans who got lucky. Their leadership are every bit as smart as anyone america has to offer.

                                                    I know americans don't want to hear that, being "#1" and all, but demonizing the enemy, insulting the enemy, just leads to underestimating the enemy.

                                                    We also need to accept that this isn't all white-hat/black-hat. Religion aside, they do have some completely justifiable reasons to be pissed off at America and the west. Since WWII, giving away land that wasn't ours to give (Israel), to war profiteering, to supporting unpopular leaders like Saddam. Forget what you think about their culture, and just acknowledge that nations like to be sovereign. Look at how pissed off america gets when even friendly nations disagree with them (france, germany, etc). How would america handle foreign powers dictating who will lead us, and controlling our national assets?

                                                    You cannot just ignore their motivations. Saying "I dont care" is fucking ignorant. These people have real grievances. If you don't diffuse the circumstances that create 'terrorists' then the battle will be never ending.


                                                    Originally posted by jennym


                                                    So you think we should let terrorists keep killing innocent people because they want us to come after them? That is just crazy! Since you are so wise, please tell us how you would have handled it? How would you make sure 9-11 didn't happen again? How would you handle terrorists?

                                                    You treat terrorists the same way you would any other criminals. When someone commits a crime, something as serious as murder, you find out who did it, track them down, and capture - or kill - them. You target the individuals responsible. You serve no one's purpose beyond the universally understood concept of justice. You do not further anyones politcal agenda. You especially do not grant them the credibility of a nation. You do not go to 'war' against an idea.

                                                    After that, you do your best to create a global climate where people are more inclined to stay at home, with their friends and family, than compelled to become terrorists. You do not give them new reasons (killing tens of thousands of civillians in iraq) to hate you.

                                                    camchicks.com

                                                      Comment

                                                      • jimmyf
                                                        OU812
                                                        • Feb 2001
                                                        • 12651
                                                        #64
                                                        Originally posted by genomega
                                                        Censorship charged? Only the government can censor.
                                                        They see their sales going down the tubes because people are sick of this crap. The majority of people in this country are not left wing nuts.
                                                        a lot of people on this board don't see it this way.

                                                        It's comptes with me
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                                                          • jimmyf
                                                            OU812
                                                            • Feb 2001
                                                            • 12651
                                                            #65
                                                            Originally posted by ShellyCrash
                                                            This has only happened under this administration- Doonesbury has added political satire into the mix since the 80's.

                                                            If they're banning Donnesburry- then I want "Family Circus" to get the axe too- if you can't talk about politics, then you can't advertize christianity.
                                                            Sorry what **YOU** want don't mean shit.

                                                            It's what **ALL** the other people wants that matters.

                                                            Has this ever enter your little pea brain.
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                                                              • jimmyf
                                                                OU812
                                                                • Feb 2001
                                                                • 12651
                                                                #66
                                                                Originally posted by Pleasurepays
                                                                quite the conundrum for bush haters..., the belief that he is completely retarded and yet he is so brilliant he is taking over the world and controlling our thoughts.



                                                                completely retarded

                                                                that's kind of like laughing all the way 2 the bank
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                                                                  • Azlord
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Dec 2003
                                                                    • 2651
                                                                    #67
                                                                    Super Fucking Weak.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • NBDesign
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Jan 2003
                                                                        • 5814
                                                                        #68
                                                                        Originally posted by Pleasurepays
                                                                        what they "claimed" was that the cartoon got a lot of complaints.

                                                                        why would you think it makes sense for any business to alienate a significant portion of its audience?
                                                                        Yeah but from whom? Bush supporters... I thought that cartoon was funny at times... but hey, if I didn't like it I would no be such an ass as to complain, I would JUST NOT READ IT... it's called choice... Just like Stern... I can listen or not.

                                                                        Censorship!

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                                                                          • jimmyf
                                                                            OU812
                                                                            • Feb 2001
                                                                            • 12651
                                                                            #69
                                                                            Originally posted by Pornwolf
                                                                            Saddam and Bin Laden look nothing alike so why did we go after him instead of trying to find the 6 foot tall muslim man on dialysis in the desert.
                                                                            dialysis = should check your fact's, this had been reported but if not true,,


                                                                            tall muslim man = true
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                                                                              • jimmyf
                                                                                OU812
                                                                                • Feb 2001
                                                                                • 12651
                                                                                #70
                                                                                Originally posted by CDSmith
                                                                                I don't agree with some of the subject matter of Trudeau's comic, but I certainly don't agree with censorship either.

                                                                                If I had a subscription to one of those papers, and that paper decided to censor this or any comic strip for being "too contraversial" (IE: too satirical of the existing government) I would cancel my subscription and buy from a paper that has enough balls to say FUCK YOU to censorist.

                                                                                In fact, I'll say it. FUCK YOU to anyone that is in support of this kind of censorship.
                                                                                I really don't think this is censorship, the company took it off.

                                                                                Now the company might be right wing, I don't know.

                                                                                It's there company, they write the checks, so if they want 2 I would think l they can.
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                                                                                  • jimmyf
                                                                                    OU812
                                                                                    • Feb 2001
                                                                                    • 12651
                                                                                    #71
                                                                                    Originally posted by Ironhorse
                                                                                    There is a good chance 9/11 might not have happened if Gore had been elected..

                                                                                    bull shit
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                                                                                      • ShellyCrash
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Jun 2004
                                                                                        • 6708
                                                                                        #72
                                                                                        Originally posted by jimmyf
                                                                                        dialysis = should check your fact's, this had been reported but if not true,,


                                                                                        tall muslim man = true
                                                                                        I heard about the dialysis too- so are you saying that's not true?

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                                                                                          • sacX
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Dec 2002
                                                                                            • 2998
                                                                                            #73
                                                                                            Originally posted by jennym
                                                                                            Bush was in office for 7 FUCKING MONTHS!! If there had been all this "evidence" out there, shouldn't someone else have seen it as well? At least he is standing up for this country!
                                                                                            well Al-Qaeda was mentioned 40 times in briefings by George Tenet to the President in the first 7 months according to Richard Clarke.

                                                                                            Perhaps he is standing up for the country, but almost 1000 troops dead, (god knows how many civlians) 140 billion dollars and Al-Qaeda are still well and truly alive.
                                                                                            Have Asian Language Traffic?

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                                                                                              • CDSmith
                                                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                • May 2001
                                                                                                • 51460
                                                                                                #74
                                                                                                Originally posted by jimmyf
                                                                                                I really don't think this is censorship, the company took it off.

                                                                                                Now the company might be right wing, I don't know.

                                                                                                It's there company, they write the checks, so if they want 2 I would think l they can.
                                                                                                It's still a form of censorship.

                                                                                                put it this way... If Lensman were to start deleting certain posts of yours because he didn't like what you were saying, all kinds of people here would be screaming censorship.

                                                                                                This board is a private business. So is that newspaper. The public reads both, and censorship is censorship. The paper has the right to censor the comic, and I have a right to disagree with their choice, and I have made my disagreement known.

                                                                                                That's where it ends, for me anyway.
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                                                                                                  • IratePrimate
                                                                                                    Registered User
                                                                                                    • Jun 2004
                                                                                                    • 79
                                                                                                    #75
                                                                                                    Originally posted by jennym
                                                                                                    On 7 August 1998, powerful car bombs exploded minutes apart outside the United States embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 224 people and wounding about 5,000 others.
                                                                                                    Ok, not to downplay all these people whos lives were detroyed by this, but this is a clear misrepresentation of facts. You said terrorist attacks on Americans, of those 224 people who died, I believe 12 were American. They were embassy staffers at Nairobi.

                                                                                                    You called Gore a pussy, but then again, he did go to Vietnam... where was Bush? That bastion of heroism, that stalworth militaristic maverick?

                                                                                                    He was in Alabama.
                                                                                                    Last edited by IratePrimate; 07-22-2004, 03:19 PM.

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      • Pleasurepays
                                                                                                        BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES
                                                                                                        • Aug 2002
                                                                                                        • 11913
                                                                                                        #76
                                                                                                        Originally posted by NBDesign
                                                                                                        Yeah but from whom? Bush supporters... I thought that cartoon was funny at times... but hey, if I didn't like it I would no be such an ass as to complain, I would JUST NOT READ IT... it's called choice... Just like Stern... I can listen or not.

                                                                                                        Censorship!
                                                                                                        we don't exactly live in a dictatorship. its called a free market. people are running a business trying to appeal to a broad audience... not trying to alienate a large portion of their audience. people complain about things they don't like or agree with... just like you are by calling it "censorship"

                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • jennym
                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                            • May 2003
                                                                                                            • 1622
                                                                                                            #77
                                                                                                            Originally posted by CamChicks
                                                                                                            This is why we're fucked. Most americans aren't even interested in knowing WHY 9/11 happened - they just to know who to blame and who to blow up.

                                                                                                            The 'terrorists' are not some crazed mustache-twirling villans from a bad action movie. They are not a race of primitive subhumans who got lucky. Their leadership are every bit as smart as anyone america has to offer.

                                                                                                            I know americans don't want to hear that, being "#1" and all, but demonizing the enemy, insulting the enemy, just leads to underestimating the enemy.

                                                                                                            We also need to accept that this isn't all white-hat/black-hat. Religion aside, they do have some completely justifiable reasons to be pissed off at America and the west. Since WWII, giving away land that wasn't ours to give (Israel), to war profiteering, to supporting unpopular leaders like Saddam. Forget what you think about their culture, and just acknowledge that nations like to be sovereign. Look at how pissed off america gets when even friendly nations disagree with them (france, germany, etc). How would america handle foreign powers dictating who will lead us, and controlling our national assets?

                                                                                                            You cannot just ignore their motivations. Saying "I dont care" is fucking ignorant. These people have real grievances. If you don't diffuse the circumstances that create 'terrorists' then the battle will be never ending.

                                                                                                            You treat terrorists the same way you would any other criminals. When someone commits a crime, something as serious as murder, you find out who did it, track them down, and capture - or kill - them. You target the individuals responsible. You serve no one's purpose beyond the universally understood concept of justice. You do not further anyones politcal agenda. You especially do not grant them the credibility of a nation. You do not go to 'war' against an idea.

                                                                                                            After that, you do your best to create a global climate where people are more inclined to stay at home, with their friends and family, than compelled to become terrorists. You do not give them new reasons (killing tens of thousands of civillians in iraq) to hate you.
                                                                                                            1) I'm far from "fucking ignorant".
                                                                                                            2) I know why they "claim" to have done it. It doesn't excuse it. If a crazy man breaks in my house and tries to rape my daughter,....guess what? I will shoot him in the fucking head and NEVER even care why he did it. Yes, they may have reasons to be pissed. That doesn't mean that what they did on any of the occasions I mentioned were ok.
                                                                                                            3) As for "diffusing the circumstances that create terrorists". I say when you blow up thousands of innocent people - fuck you and your grievances. You get nowhere with me killing innocent people to bully me into doing what you want.
                                                                                                            4) So where is your genius plan to correct this problem? I must have missed it in that pile somewhere.

                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • jennym
                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                • May 2003
                                                                                                                • 1622
                                                                                                                #78
                                                                                                                Originally posted by IratePrimate
                                                                                                                Ok, not to downplay all these people whos lives were detroyed by this, but this is a clear misrepresentation of facts. You said terrorist attacks on Americans, of those 224 people who died, I believe 12 were American. They were embassy staffers at Nairobi.

                                                                                                                You called Gore a pussy, but then again, he did go to Vietnam... where was Bush? That bastion of heroism, that stalworth militaristic maverick?

                                                                                                                He was in Alabama.
                                                                                                                First, to Gore for fighting for this country. I would never downplay that. My comment on Gore being a pussy is more a political one.

                                                                                                                As for the bombing, it was outside of the U.S. embassies. Obviously aimed at us.

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • IratePrimate
                                                                                                                    Registered User
                                                                                                                    • Jun 2004
                                                                                                                    • 79
                                                                                                                    #79
                                                                                                                    Originally posted by jennym
                                                                                                                    First, to Gore for fighting for this country. I would never downplay that. My comment on Gore being a pussy is more a political one.

                                                                                                                    As for the bombing, it was outside of the U.S. embassies. Obviously aimed at us.
                                                                                                                    So what political decisions did Gore make that you based him being a pussy on?

                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • genomega
                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                        • Feb 2002
                                                                                                                        • 1190
                                                                                                                        #80
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by CamChicks
                                                                                                                        This is why we're fucked. Most americans aren't even interested in knowing WHY 9/11 happened - they just to know who to blame and who to blow up.

                                                                                                                        The 'terrorists' are not some crazed mustache-twirling villans from a bad action movie. They are not a race of primitive subhumans who got lucky. Their leadership are every bit as smart as anyone america has to offer.

                                                                                                                        I know americans don't want to hear that, being "#1" and all, but demonizing the enemy, insulting the enemy, just leads to underestimating the enemy.

                                                                                                                        We also need to accept that this isn't all white-hat/black-hat. Religion aside, they do have some completely justifiable reasons to be pissed off at America and the west. Since WWII, giving away land that wasn't ours to give (Israel), to war profiteering, to supporting unpopular leaders like Saddam. Forget what you think about their culture, and just acknowledge that nations like to be sovereign. Look at how pissed off america gets when even friendly nations disagree with them (france, germany, etc). How would america handle foreign powers dictating who will lead us, and controlling our national assets?

                                                                                                                        You cannot just ignore their motivations. Saying "I dont care" is fucking ignorant. These people have real grievances. If you don't diffuse the circumstances that create 'terrorists' then the battle will be never ending.





                                                                                                                        You treat terrorists the same way you would any other criminals. When someone commits a crime, something as serious as murder, you find out who did it, track them down, and capture - or kill - them. You target the individuals responsible. You serve no one's purpose beyond the universally understood concept of justice. You do not further anyones politcal agenda. You especially do not grant them the credibility of a nation. You do not go to 'war' against an idea.

                                                                                                                        After that, you do your best to create a global climate where people are more inclined to stay at home, with their friends and family, than compelled to become terrorists. You do not give them new reasons (killing tens of thousands of civillians in iraq) to hate you.
                                                                                                                        You sound like a propaganda machine.
                                                                                                                        Perhaps you can explain why muslim rebels are killing people in 65 countries and are on thier way to killing 1 million in the sudan.
                                                                                                                        They are like the borg and death means nothing to them and you want to send the park police after them.


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                                                                                                                          • jennym
                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                            • May 2003
                                                                                                                            • 1622
                                                                                                                            #81
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by IratePrimate
                                                                                                                            So what political decisions did Gore make that you based him being a pussy on?
                                                                                                                            If you will read what I posted, I said:

                                                                                                                            "to me Gore comes across as a fucking pansy"

                                                                                                                            Get the "comes across" and the "to me" part? It is just a personal opinion based on observation. He is a career politician born and bred. That always scares me.

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                                                                                                                              • IratePrimate
                                                                                                                                Registered User
                                                                                                                                • Jun 2004
                                                                                                                                • 79
                                                                                                                                #82
                                                                                                                                Originally posted by jennym
                                                                                                                                If you will read what I posted, I said:

                                                                                                                                "to me Gore comes across as a fucking pansy"

                                                                                                                                Get the "comes across" and the "to me" part? It is just a personal opinion based on observation. He is a career politician born and bred. That always scares me.
                                                                                                                                What's Bush? A Mountain man? Do you think he comes from a blue collar background? He's not a career politician, born and bred? Look at his Connecticut roots. He's not this "outsiider from Texas" he plays himself off as. He was born in Connecticut, to a political family. If there has been a "born politicain" president in the past twenty years, it's him.

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                                                                                                                                  • jennym
                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                    • May 2003
                                                                                                                                    • 1622
                                                                                                                                    #83
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by IratePrimate
                                                                                                                                    What's Bush? A Mountain man? Do you think he comes from a blue collar background? He's not a career politician, born and bred? Look at his Connecticut roots. He's not this "outsiider from Texas" he plays himself off as. He was born in Connecticut, to a political family. If there has been a "born politicain" president in the past twenty years, it's him.
                                                                                                                                    How come when I talk about Gore, you have to compare him to Bush? Are you just a Bush basher? If so, then your opinion just doesn't mean much to me. I am not one of those people who feel the need to "defend my party" no matter who it is running. There are dems I like, and dems I don't like. Same with reps.

                                                                                                                                    I don't like Gore! Period! Sure, Bush comes from a political family. Do I think he would have disappeared and turned into Grizzly Fucking Adams if he had lost the election? No. He would have gone on with his life. Gore's life seems to have ALWAYS revolved around politics. When that is the case, you have to question their honesty, integrity, and ethics. That is just my opinion, and you are not going to change my mind.

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                                                                                                                                      • IratePrimate
                                                                                                                                        Registered User
                                                                                                                                        • Jun 2004
                                                                                                                                        • 79
                                                                                                                                        #84
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by jennym
                                                                                                                                        How come when I talk about Gore, you have to compare him to Bush? Are you just a Bush basher? If so, then your opinion just doesn't mean much to me. I am not one of those people who feel the need to "defend my party" no matter who it is running. There are dems I like, and dems I don't like. Same with reps.

                                                                                                                                        I don't like Gore! Period! Sure, Bush comes from a political family. Do I think he would have disappeared and turned into Grizzly Fucking Adams if he had lost the election? No. He would have gone on with his life. Gore's life seems to have ALWAYS revolved around politics. When that is the case, you have to question their honesty, integrity, and ethics. That is just my opinion, and you are not going to change my mind.
                                                                                                                                        Fair enough. I, however, was replying to your criticism of Gore. You were the one comparing the two. I'm just standing up for a guy who does what he believes to be right. I'm not a Democrat, or a Republican. I just have a problem with people like Bush, and nearly everyone in his administration (save Powell) who will lead a nation into war, yet shirked their duties when it was their turn to fight. Put Bush up on a pedestal all you want; but he's still not a hero. His DD-214 (separation papers from the military) attests to that.

                                                                                                                                        I'm not saying you need to serve in the military to get my respect as a president, but if you're going to send 18 year olds to die somewhere, it would help if you had been willing to do it yourself. These fucking elitists in office now believe they're better than the average American. That's why I can't respect them.

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                                                                                                                                          • jennym
                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                            • May 2003
                                                                                                                                            • 1622
                                                                                                                                            #85
                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by IratePrimate
                                                                                                                                            Fair enough. I, however, was replying to your criticism of Gore. You were the one comparing the two. I'm just standing up for a guy who does what he believes to be right. I'm not a Democrat, or a Republican. I just have a problem with people like Bush, and nearly everyone in his administration (save Powell) who will lead a nation into war, yet shirked their duties when it was their turn to fight. Put Bush up on a pedestal all you want; but he's still not a hero. His DD-214 (separation papers from the military) attests to that.

                                                                                                                                            I'm not saying you need to serve in the military to get my respect as a president, but if you're going to send 18 year olds to die somewhere, it would help if you had been willing to do it yourself. These fucking elitists in office now believe they're better than the average American. That's why I can't respect them.
                                                                                                                                            I think at 18, 19, 20 years old, many people would not want to go to war. I am sure it was a scary thing. As I said, I give major thumbs-up to Gore for doing that, and I don't condemn Bush for "getting out of it". But, now, as a grown man, and the president of the U.S. Bush had to make a decision, and *I* think it was the right one. Our men and women in the military are there voluntarily. God Bless Them!! There are those of course who joined to get a free education from the govt. never expecting to go to war, but tough shit for them. There are no free rides.

                                                                                                                                            As for putting Bush on a pedestal - I never do that. I think he is way to far right for me on many issues. I simply agree with his decision to try to kick some ass and show the world that we will not be taking this crap lying down. I think Bush is absolutely standing up for what he believes in.

                                                                                                                                            And, lastly, I could not stand Al Gore long before I even really knew about Bush. I just never liked him.
                                                                                                                                            Last edited by jennym; 07-22-2004, 04:15 PM.

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                                                                                                                                              • evildick
                                                                                                                                                #86
                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by stevecore
                                                                                                                                                good, next on the chopping block should be Cathy, Apt 3G, Rex Morgan M.D, Family Circus and anything else that doesn't make me laugh.
                                                                                                                                                Haha. No shit. Those horrible comics have gone on far too long. I can't believe anyone actually reads those and enjoys them.

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                                                                                                                                                  • CamChicks
                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                    • Sep 2003
                                                                                                                                                    • 1552
                                                                                                                                                    #87
                                                                                                                                                    I want Osama Bin Laden, and anyone else with direct ties to 9/11 captured or killed.

                                                                                                                                                    Bush has not done that. He dedicated very few resources to the task. He abandoned the chase, and left the job mostly up to to Pakistanis, who are sympathetic to the enemy. And that alone should be enough to make the american people want to hang GW. Either he's completely incompetent, or catching the guy who masterminded 9/11 is not important to him . . justice for the familys of those who died on 9/11 are not important to him.



                                                                                                                                                    Instead we have a president who grants Osama wishes.

                                                                                                                                                    Osamas enemy, Saddam, is gone.
                                                                                                                                                    Osama now has millions of supporters.




                                                                                                                                                    think about it this way:
                                                                                                                                                    Who stood to benefit from 9/11?

                                                                                                                                                    Not Saddam. He was contained, impotent, and the absolute best case scenerio for him was to live out his old age in a palace. And then let his sons inherit power.
                                                                                                                                                    Saddam could not benefit in any way from an attack on the US. It could only result in negative consequences for him.

                                                                                                                                                    None of the governments of any of the nations in that region stood to gain. Even the ones that hate America don't want to risk their own power. No country would want to be attacked by the US.

                                                                                                                                                    Only Osama has the freedom not to care. He wanted full scale war. Whenever, wherever. War can only benefit his cause. He doesn't care how many 'martyrs' are made in the process. He believes that getting the USA to attack muslim countries is the only way to unite all muslims against us - to get them to eject the 'infidels' from the 'holy land'.

                                                                                                                                                    Bush was baited. Osama wins.

                                                                                                                                                    Even if he died tomorrow, Osama has lived long enough to see his plot succeed. Saddam in prison. Islamic fighters doing as the please in the streets of Iraq. Clerics coming back into power. American soldiers dying. America losing political power, without credibility and distanced from allies. Muslim populations all over the world enraged. Al Quedas ranks swelling. New islamic extremist organizations popping up all over. A global terrorist network. It's the army he always wanted.


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