Stephen Hawking changes his mind about black holes [article]

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  • IPK
    Confirmed User
    • Sep 2003
    • 4209

    #1

    Stephen Hawking changes his mind about black holes [article]

    http://www.nature.com/news/2004/0407...040712-12.html

    Hawking changes his mind about black holes

    The eminent physicist Stephen Hawking has conceded that information can escape from black holes after all. The idea has been gaining popularity with physicists for some time, but the fact that Hawking, a pioneer of black-hole theory in the 1970s, has finally accepted it is something of a watershed.

    "This will come as a surprise to physicists," says Hawking's Cambridge University colleague Gary Gibbons. "His style of doing science is quite dramatic: he will propose a thesis and defend it to the last, until it is overthrown by better reasoning."

    It also means that Hawking loses a long-standing bet with John Preskill, a theoretical physicist at the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena.

    Hawking had believed that anything swallowed by a black hole was forever hidden from the outside universe. Preskill bet that the information carried by an object was not destroyed when it plummeted into a collapsed star, and could actually be recovered.

    "Stephen has changed his position, and I am expecting him to concede the bet," Preskill says. His prize is to be an encyclopaedia, "from which information can be recovered at will". Hawking says that he will indeed honour the wager.

    General approach

    Hawking's original view follows Einstein's general theory of relativity, which predicts that, at certain locations in space, matter collapses into an infinitely small and dense point, called a singularity. The theory says that the force of gravity at this point is so great that nothing, not even light itself, can escape, hence the term 'black hole'.

    Because the singularity is infinitely small, it cannot possibly have any structure and so there is no way that it can hold information. Any data about particles entering the black hole must be lost forever.

    The problem is that quantum theory, which describes space and matter on very tiny scales, contradicts this. Quantum theory says any process can be run in reverse, so starting conditions can theoretically be inferred from the end products alone. This implies that a black hole must somehow store information about the items that fell into it.

    Quantum evolution

    Hawking has always stuck resolutely to the idea that once information goes into a black hole, there is no way out. Until now. When [email protected] asked about his change of heart, Hawking smiled and wrote: "My views have evolved."

    The remarkable about-face is the result of Hawking's attempts to combine quantum theory with general relativity in a powerful new theory of quantum gravity. Hawking is due to present his latest ideas at the 17th International Conference on General Relativity and Gravitation, which runs from 18 July to 23 July in Dublin, Ireland. But he gave a preview of the talk at his department in Cambridge University last month.

    He has been using a mathematical technique called the "Euclidean path integral". The technique is extremely complex as it lumps all the possible histories of a system into one equation. First used by quantum physicist Richard Feynman, it has generally been applied to subatomic particles. But Hawking has been working for several years to apply the idea to black holes.

    "The view seems to be forming in his mind that there isn't a black hole in the absolute sense, there's just a region where things take a very long time to escape," says Gibbons. This suggests that black holes do not actually narrow to a singularity at all.

    The great escape

    So an object falling into a black hole is not completely obliterated. Instead, the black hole is altered as it absorbs the object. Although it would certainly be very difficult to retrieve any information about that object, the data are still there, somewhere inside the black hole, Gibbons says.

    How could that information ever escape? The answer lies in one of Hawking's greatest discoveries: that black holes slowly evaporate into space by losing particles from the very edge of the gravitational precipice at their rim, called Hawking radiation. The black hole eventually shrinks to a tiny kernel, at which point a growing torrent of radiation begins to leak out, potentially carrying the lost information with it.

    But Preskill says that Hawking's new take on quantum gravity rests on shaky mathematical foundations, and is unlikely to be embraced by the physics community. "I am sceptical about whether he has found a fully satisfactory resolution to the problem," he says.
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  • Meta Ridley
    Confirmed User
    • Sep 2003
    • 3433

    #2
    Yes thats pretty amazing stuff.

    Were gettting closer
    [email protected]

    Comment

    • Project-Shadow
      Confirmed User
      • Feb 2003
      • 7340

      #3
      Shit, I coulda told you that...

      Start -> Run -> Command -> "Undelete" - Files/Spaceships/Galaxies...

      It's just that simple..

      [On a serious note, neato]

      Comment

      • sexxxychat69
        I will make you galleries for a reciprocal link
        • Oct 2003
        • 394

        #4
        Ever Here the Andy Dick song about STephen Hawking ?

        Comment

        • IPK
          Confirmed User
          • Sep 2003
          • 4209

          #5
          Originally posted by sexxxychat69
          Ever Here the Andy Dick song about STephen Hawking ?
          No, how does it go?
          DomainerResource.com
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          • ModelPerfect
            Confirmed User
            • Nov 2003
            • 2862

            #6
            So I wonder when the "Grand Unified Theory" is due out...
            Logan
            modelperfect [at] gmail.com
            http://www.modelperfect.com

            (Proudly hosted at www.webair.com )

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            • Rochard
              Jägermeister Test Pilot
              • Dec 2001
              • 75764

              #7
              So far all they are talking about is a theory - nothing more, nothing less. Until we can see a black hole up and close, it will remain just that.
              Herschel Savage
              Brooklyn, NY

              Comment

              • boobmaster
                So Fucking Banned
                • Jul 2003
                • 6185

                #8
                Originally posted by Meta Ridley
                Yes thats pretty amazing stuff.

                Were gettting closer
                closer to what?

                Comment

                • AgentCash
                  Confirmed User
                  • Feb 2002
                  • 720

                  #9
                  Originally posted by RocHard
                  So far all they are talking about is a theory - nothing more, nothing less. Until we can see a black hole up and close, it will remain just that.

                  Scientific 'theory' is alot different than what most people consider the word theory to mean.

                  Often the statement "Well, it's just a theory," is used to dismiss controversial theories such as evolution, but this is largely due to confusion between the words theory and hypothesis. In science, a body of descriptions of knowledge is usually only called a theory once it has a firm empirical basis, i.e. it

                  1. is consistent with pre-existing theory to the extent that the pre-existing theory was experimentally verified, though it will often show pre-existing theory to be wrong in an exact sense,
                  2. is supported by many strands of evidence rather than a single foundation, ensuring that it probably is a good approximation if not totally correct,
                  3. has survived many critical real world tests that could have proven it false,
                  4. makes predictions that might someday be used to disprove the theory, and
                  5. is the best known explanation, in the sense of Occam's Razor, of the infinite variety of alternative explanations for the same data.

                  This is true of such established theories as evolution, special and general relativity, quantum mechanics (with minimal interpretation), plate tectonics, etc.
                  Last edited by AgentCash; 07-15-2004, 08:29 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Meta Ridley
                    Confirmed User
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 3433

                    #10
                    Originally posted by RocHard
                    So far all they are talking about is a theory - nothing more, nothing less. Until we can see a black hole up and close, it will remain just that.

                    Youre an idiot.
                    [email protected]

                    Comment

                    • strats
                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                      • Feb 2004
                      • 1805

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Meta Ridley
                      Yes thats pretty amazing stuff.

                      Were gettting closer

                      closer to .. what ? ..

                      Comment

                      • Trixie
                        Confirmed User
                        • Oct 2002
                        • 1850

                        #12
                        Originally posted by RocHard
                        So far all they are talking about is a theory - nothing more, nothing less. Until we can see a black hole up and close, it will remain just that.
                        On a related note -- did anyone hear about budget cuts drastically reducing the study of dark matter? I didn't hear the whole story, my sister just mentioned it to me.
                        WebWhoreBucks: Girls, a guy and a tranny -- unique indie porn!

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                        • Strife
                          Confirmed User
                          • Aug 2001
                          • 4534

                          #13
                          Interesting shit
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                          • pood
                            Confirmed User
                            • Feb 2004
                            • 1609

                            #14
                            fascinating

                            guess they're gonna have to change the books now in astronomy.

                            Comment

                            • Fizzgig
                              Registered User
                              • Feb 2004
                              • 9649

                              #15
                              Originally posted by strats
                              closer to .. what ? ..
                              I was going to ask the same thing.

                              I have the GUT in my closet, but it's called the KAT's big TOE...

                              Actually, my uncle and myself devised a theory (called it KAT) and mailed Stephen about it a few years back, they mailed us back and we never did reply.
                              That's becuase I suck! (But at least I'm good at that! )
                              ---'-,-{@ Sassy Grrrl @}-'-,---

                              Comment

                              • OzMan
                                Confirmed User
                                • Sep 2003
                                • 9162

                                #16
                                Originally posted by boobmaster
                                closer to what?
                                Closer to solving more of life's mysteries/ unified theory etc etc

                                Are you sure you are a quantum physicist because I think you might just be one of those webmaster guys?

                                Comment

                                • pxxx
                                  First African GFY Member
                                  • Mar 2004
                                  • 12114

                                  #17
                                  Interesting read.

                                  Comment

                                  • reynold
                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                    • Oct 2002
                                    • 51271

                                    #18
                                    Hey, even geniuses change their minds if they are proven wrong.

                                    Comment

                                    • Pleasurepays
                                      BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES
                                      • Aug 2002
                                      • 11913

                                      #19
                                      i am now reviewing my previous theories on black holes. i will keep everyone updated.

                                      Comment

                                      • Fizzgig
                                        Registered User
                                        • Feb 2004
                                        • 9649

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Pleasurepays
                                        i am now reviewing my previous theories on black holes. i will keep everyone updated.
                                        OMG! I love that pic in your sig!
                                        ---'-,-{@ Sassy Grrrl @}-'-,---

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