50 Jaded American Votes
Could the Moore 9/11 film tilt the results of the US election?
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It could very well affect the election. I'm sure its not helping Bush win any supporters.
Its about time there was more leftist viewpoints like this in the US.. all you ever hear on tv or radio down there really is conservatives. Thats a big part of why its so talked about.. no one has been saying this stuff loudly.Comment
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Lies, misrepresentations, contradictions, and just bullshit from a known propagandist . You ignorant leftist sheep just eat it up.... pathetic.Originally posted by EviLGuY
It could very well affect the election. I'm sure its not helping Bush win any supporters.
Its about time there was more leftist viewpoints like this in the US.. all you ever hear on tv or radio down there really is conservatives. Thats a big part of why its so talked about.. no one has been saying this stuff loudly.
Many of the distortions which you jackasses blatantly ignore are listed here.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/Comment
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So you say people are stupid for believing a liberal's opinion, and you back it up by posting a link to a republican's opinion?Originally posted by ronbotx
Lies, misrepresentations, contradictions, and just bullshit from a known propagandist . You ignorant leftist sheep just eat it up.... pathetic.
Many of the distortions which you jackasses blatantly ignore are listed here.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
Critical thinking isn't one of your strong points is it? Probably too tiring?Comment
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If one is going to point out the flip-flopping opinion of politicians, one best not be doing the same flip-flopping in one's own backyard, that's for damn sure.http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
In late 2002, almost a year after the al-Qaida assault on American society, I had an onstage debate with Michael Moore at the Telluride Film Festival. In the course of this exchange, he stated his view that Osama Bin Laden should be considered innocent until proven guilty. This was, he said, the American way. The intervention in Afghanistan, he maintained, had been at least to that extent unjustified. Something?I cannot guess what, since we knew as much then as we do now?has since apparently persuaded Moore that Osama Bin Laden is as guilty as hell. Indeed, Osama is suddenly so guilty and so all-powerful that any other discussion of any other topic is a dangerous "distraction" from the fight against him. I believe that I understand the convenience of this late conversion.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

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Well MM seems to be pretty secure in his documentaryOriginally posted by jimmyf
proof's in the pudding man.
there's a ton of people on GFY that believe Moore
makes documentaries.
I know if I were there mother or father I'd hide my head in shame.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/l.../mikeinthenews/
Mr. Moore is readying for a conservative counterattack, saying he has created a political-style "war room" to offer an instant response to any assault on the film's credibility. He has retained Chris Lehane, a Democratic Party strategist known as a master of the black art of "oppo," or opposition research, used to discredit detractors. He also hired outside fact-checkers, led by a former general counsel of The New Yorker and a veteran member of that magazine's legendary fact-checking team, to vet the film. And he is threatening to go one step further, saying he has consulted with lawyers who can bring defamation suits against anyone who maligns the film or damages his reputation.Pornkings.comComment
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If they were lies he would be prosecuted..Originally posted by ronbotx
Lies, misrepresentations, contradictions, and just bullshit from a known propagandist . You ignorant leftist sheep just eat it up.... pathetic.
Many of the distortions which you jackasses blatantly ignore are listed here.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
He made sure he had documants and facts before moving forward with his Documentary.
that is why
Mr. Moore is readying for a conservative counterattack, saying he has created a political-style "war room" to offer an instant response to any assault on the film's credibility. He has retained Chris Lehane, a Democratic Party strategist known as a master of the black art of "oppo," or opposition research, used to discredit detractors. He also hired outside fact-checkers, led by a former general counsel of The New Yorker and a veteran member of that magazine's legendary fact-checking team, to vet the film. And he is threatening to go one step further, saying he has consulted with lawyers who can bring defamation suits against anyone who maligns the film or damages his reputation.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/l.../mikeinthenews/Pornkings.comComment
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Usually yes, but I predict that the back-and-forth arguments between the two political establishments will keep the contraversy over this film going for a lot longer than that. There are dozens if not hundreds of articles out already yet I don't believe it has even begun to get really ugly yet.Originally posted by EZRhino
This kind of stuff is only good for 2 months at best.
More people have to see the film. Then it will get ugly.
I wouldn't be surprised if the contraversy over this film went on until long after the actual election.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

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Man, thanks for posting that article, the writer is very entertaining. I especially enjoyed this passage....Originally posted by ronbotx
Lies, misrepresentations, contradictions, and just bullshit from a known propagandist . You ignorant leftist sheep just eat it up.... pathetic.
Many of the distortions which you jackasses blatantly ignore are listed here.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
Moore has announced that he won't even appear on TV shows where he might face hostile questioning. I notice from the New York Times of June 20 that he has pompously established a rapid response team, and a fact-checking staff, and some tough lawyers, to bulwark himself against attack. He'll sue, Moore says, if anyone insults him or his pet. Some right-wing hack groups, I gather, are planning to bring pressure on their local movie theaters to drop the film. How dumb or thuggish do you have to be in order to counter one form of stupidity and cowardice with another? By all means go and see this terrible film, and take your friends, and if the fools in the audience strike up one cry, in favor of surrender or defeat, feel free to join in the conversation.
However, I think we can agree that the film is so flat-out phony that "fact-checking" is beside the point. And as for the scary lawyers?get a life, or maybe see me in court. But I offer this, to Moore and to his rapid response rabble. Any time, Michael my boy. Let's redo Telluride. Any show. Any place. Any platform. Let's see what you're made of.
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There must have been a couple of dozen posts on this board alone asking for statements like this to be backed up with specific examples: care to deliver?Originally posted by ronbotx
Lies, misrepresentations, contradictions, and just bullshit from a known propagandist .
That apart, you don't get it do you? The only reason this has even the appearance of a left-right issue is because a Republican administration is at the heart of it all.
When Bush signed the order to invade Iraq, he received the overwhelming support of both parties and the public. The question now is whether we were deliberately told lies to get our support for something we would not have supported if we had been told the truth.
I dislike the Republican party intensely because it uses emotive rhetoric to convince many of the very people it sees as cannon fodder, that it is their party. Still I refuse to believe that most Republicans would normally be anything but appalled at the degree of nepotism that we are seeing at present.
And that's the point: left and right are irrelevant to most of the actual issues here. They are all issues on which most of us would agree in the abstract. I wonder how many Republicans could honestly say that if it were a Democratic president under the spotlight, they would still have a problem with Michael Moore's film?
If Republicans want to defend their president, they can either attempt to disprove the claims that many have been making for the past 2½ years. Or they can try to provide justification. I don't think people are so dumb, that now so many are seeing the movie and can make up their own minds, sneering dismissals are going to cut it any more.Comment
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Originally posted by CDSmith
Man, thanks for posting that article, the writer is very entertaining. I especially enjoyed this passage....
Here's another well-written, witty critique of the film by a NeoCon who was against the Iraq war:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...4/278rxzvb.asp
CONSIDERING THAT I'm writing this from inside the bunker of what many regard as the Alliance of Neocon Warmongers, it bears mentioning that Michael Moore and I have one surprising trait in common: We both believe that the war in Iraq was ill-advised, ill-planned, and ill-executed, an apparent failure bordering on unmitigated disaster, that was never in our best national interest. Around our office over the last two years, I've made these arguments to colleagues, open-minded types who, after they put me through my water-boarding/naked pyramid sessions, say they'll take it under advisement. And I make the disclosure now so that readers will not be confused. I do not trash Fahrenheit 9/11 because it's a piece of antiwar propaganda. I trash Fahrenheit 9/11 because it's an offal-laden piece of junk.
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Super find. I am very much enjoying these articles, I almost feel as though I've seen the film already. :DOriginally posted by BustIt
Here's another well-written, witty critique of the film by a NeoCon who was against the Iraq war:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...4/278rxzvb.asp
CONSIDERING THAT I'm writing this from inside the bunker of what many regard as the Alliance of Neocon Warmongers, it bears mentioning that Michael Moore and I have one surprising trait in common: We both believe that the war in Iraq was ill-advised, ill-planned, and ill-executed, an apparent failure bordering on unmitigated disaster, that was never in our best national interest. Around our office over the last two years, I've made these arguments to colleagues, open-minded types who, after they put me through my water-boarding/naked pyramid sessions, say they'll take it under advisement. And I make the disclosure now so that readers will not be confused. I do not trash Fahrenheit 9/11 because it's a piece of antiwar propaganda. I trash Fahrenheit 9/11 because it's an offal-laden piece of junk.
He is confirming what I've known since Moore's impromptu tirade on stage at the Oscars...... that Michael is an idiot.It is proof, as if we need more, that Moore doesn't make art, he makes fudge. Since fact-checking his work has become a near full-time cottage industry, it is worth remembering that in his debut film Roger & Me, his indictment of heartless General Motors, he was caught fudging evictions, showing people getting bounced onto the street who'd never been GM workers. In 2002's antigun screed, Bowling for Columbine, he fudged his tear-jerking closer. While hectoring Alzheimer's-ravaged NRA mascot Charlton Heston, he related the heart-tugging tale of a mother whose 6-year-old son, largely unsupervised because of oppressive welfare-to-work laws, found a gun in her house and killed one of his classmates. Moore failed to mention that the family member Mom entrusted him
to was running a crackhouse out of her home, that the gun had been left on a mattress, and that she'd admitted beating another son while sitting on him after duct-taping his hands, feet, and mouth. Not exactly a model of responsible parenting, gun ownership, or filmmakingPromote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

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All these posts and no one can argue with one point that Moore made in the movie.
He's fat. That's all anyone can say.
Right wingers have a problem with the truth, which would explain their hatred of the movie.
Someone post something that you can prove isn't true in the movie.Comment
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More cut and paste from the right wing? Don't worry about seeing the movie and thinking for yourself - let someone else do the thinking for you.Originally posted by BustIt
Here's another well-written, witty critique of the film by a NeoCon who was against the Iraq war:

A neo-con trashing Michael Moore?
That's as shocking as a KKK members saying he hates black people.
You have to do better than that.
How about telling us what isn't true in the movie, in your own words.
Comment
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A liberal praising Michael Moore -- that's shocking!Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
More cut and paste from the right wing? Don't worry about seeing the movie and thinking for yourself - let someone else do the thinking for you.
A neo-con trashing Michael Moore?
That's as shocking as a KKK members saying he hates black people.
You have to do better than that.
How about telling us what isn't true in the movie, in your own words.
It sounds like your letting Mendacious Moore think for YOU
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The writers of both of those articles do a pretty good job of going point-by-point through the film and addressing the inaccuracies you're asking about.Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
All these posts and no one can argue with one point that Moore made in the movie.
I will see the movie for myself and judge unbiasly (because that's what I do), but for the love of God you people need to quit saying that no one has or can challenge any of Moore's points. If you are too fucking lazy to read those articles through just say so.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

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I didn't praise Moore in my post.Originally posted by BustIt
A liberal praising Michael Moore -- that's shocking!
It sounds like your letting Mendacious Moore think for YOU
I asked you to tell us what you thought was untrue in the movie.
You still haven't.
Mega Dittos.
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I don't need to fuckface. The articles do it for me. Moore is a proven liar, and you're a proven idiot.Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
I didn't praise Moore in my post.
I asked you to tell us what you thought was untrue in the movie.
You still haven't.
Mega Dittos.
I am sure the articles are too difficult for you.
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I just read one of the articles all the way through and he doesn't cite one untruth in the entire movie.Originally posted by CDSmith
The writers of both of those articles do a pretty good job of going point-by-point through the film and addressing the inaccuracies you're asking about.
I will see the movie for myself and judge unbiasly (because that's what I do), but for the love of God you people need to quit saying that no one has or can challenge any of Moore's points. If you are too fucking lazy to read those articles through just say so.
This is the best the author can do:
There is no allowance for moral ambiguity, or what would've been even more interesting, misguided moral clarity--the possibility that Bush made a bad judgment call, but did so for the right reasons...
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...rxzvb.asp?pg=2
He does not dispute any facts in the movie, he just whines because Moore didn't give Bush the chance to have been "wrong for the right reasons" - what kind of shit is that?
The article posted by the Rush listener in this thread doesn't list one factual error in the movie.
Why cut and paste if it's just some neo-con slamming Moore without actually disputing anything in the movie?
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Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
I just read one of the articles all the way through and he doesn't cite one untruth in the entire movie.
This is the best the author can do:
There is no allowance for moral ambiguity, or what would've been even more interesting, misguided moral clarity--the possibility that Bush made a bad judgment call, but did so for the right reasons...
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...rxzvb.asp?pg=2
He does not dispute any facts in the movie, he just whines because Moore didn't give Bush the chance to have been "wrong for the right reasons" - what kind of shit is that?
The article posted by the Rush listener in this thread doesn't list one factual error in the movie.
Why cut and paste if it's just some neo-con slamming Moore without actually disputing anything in the movie?
You read it, but you didn't comprehend it. Just as I would have expected.
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Originally posted by CDSmith
Super find. I am very much enjoying these articles, I almost feel as though I've seen the film already. :D
He is confirming what I've known since Moore's impromptu tirade on stage at the Oscars...... that Michael is an idiot.
You havn't seen the film yet?Pornkings.comComment
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Wow, thanks for clarifying this for all of us.. you're a retard.Originally posted by BustIt
I don't need to fuckface. The articles do it for me. Moore is a proven liar, and you're a proven idiot.
I am sure the articles are too difficult for you.
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people are sheep and are stupid, no one has a mind of their own.Comment
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This part from the article is extremely convincing:Originally posted by BustIt
You read it, but you didn't comprehend it. Just as I would have expected.
The intro credits are accompanied by creepy acoustic guitar runs--third-world atrocity music--
The neo-con doesn't like the music during the credits?
Now the world can be sure Michael Moore is a terrorist - he played "creepy music" during the credits to the movie!
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Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
This part from the article is extremely convincing:
The intro credits are accompanied by creepy acoustic guitar runs--third-world atrocity music--
The neo-con doesn't like the music during the credits?
Now the world can be sure Michael Moore is a terrorist - he played "creepy music" during the credits to the movie!
Need custom blog posts or articles? Hit me up: Blog And Article Writer
Yes, I can do any kind of custom orders, too!
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What, because I don't accept without questioning your admiration of Moore's doc?Originally posted by PenisFace
Wow, thanks for clarifying this for all of us.. you're a retard.
Your uncritical admiration of it?
I don't think you guys are using your heads.Comment
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It's not difficult to read further than that.Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
This part from the article is extremely convincing:
The intro credits are accompanied by creepy acoustic guitar runs--third-world atrocity music--
The neo-con doesn't like the music during the credits?
Now the world can be sure Michael Moore is a terrorist - he played "creepy music" during the credits to the movie!
Comment
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Having trougle understanding the written word are we? Here, let me help...Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
Why cut and paste if it's just some neo-con slamming Moore without actually disputing anything in the movie?
The writers of those articles aren't challenging the factual validity of what Moore presented, they are pointing out all the facts Moore left out of his work, which is what renders it as bias useless leftwing slanted drivel, or as the writer of the second piece called it... "fudge".
Clear enough?
There are several ways to discredit someone's work. One way is to challenge the credibility of it, not to mention the credibility of it's creator. I agree with the point that if you are going to make this kind of film you best included ALL the facts of each of your points you are trying to make, even if some of those facts negate some of the points you are trying to put forth.
The fact is, people really AREN'T sheep, so Moore shouldn't be afraid to include the whole picture instead of just what serves his own ends.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

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You just admitted you get your opinions from right wing articles... Wouldn't that mean you don't do any thinking for yourself?Originally posted by BustIt
What, because I don't accept without questioning your admiration of Moore's doc?
Your uncritical admiration of it?
I don't think you guys are using your heads.Need custom blog posts or articles? Hit me up: Blog And Article Writer
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CD, Moore has as many *haters* as Bush has. You either love him or hate him. Why not download Fahrenheit 911 and see what you think.
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=318810
I believe Ralph Nader would have more of an impact on the election if he withdrew and gave his support to Kerry.Comment
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Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
This part from the article is extremely convincing:
The intro credits are accompanied by creepy acoustic guitar runs--third-world atrocity music--
The neo-con doesn't like the music during the credits?
Now the world can be sure Michael Moore is a terrorist - he played "creepy music" during the credits to the movie!
Moore's allegations are really convincing LOL
I have seen clips
You guys WANT to believe it. Nothing is going to change your minds.
Every premise that Moore bases his movie on is thoroghly refuted by either Hitchen's or Labash.
If you had read Hitchen's article you would realize this.Comment
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everything in the movie is based on facts and public record..Originally posted by BustIt
Every single paragraph in the article refutes an assertion made by Moore.
You didn't read it.
do you really think he is lying?? people arn't dumb they are just afraid to speak out.. this documantary will open peoples eyes
lets see bush steal another electionPornkings.comComment
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anyone who's still a conservative after four years of Bush is a deficient unit and there's not much point in trying to explain anything to them. If they could comprehend it they would have gotten it by now.
F9-11 won't be as effective as The Great Dictator, but it'll be effective.Comment
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Oh I know without a doubt he has as many haters. I've said here that I fully intend to see the film soon.Originally posted by MicroChick
CD, Moore has as many *haters* as Bush has. You either love him or hate him. Why not download Fahrenheit 911 and see what you think.
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=318810
I believe Ralph Nader would have more of an impact on the election if he withdrew and gave his support to Kerry.
Agreed about Nader. Tonight and in past elections in Canada we have seen what a split right or split left can result in for governmental dynamics. In parlaiment it makes it interesting... in the USA it just makes things difficult for one side.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

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Agreed. Even though I haven't yet seen it, I agree from what I have seen and read that it will have some impact.Originally posted by dig420
F9-11 won't be as effective as The Great Dictator, but it'll be effective.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

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I never said that. I simply have no trouble believing them re Moore, because of his track record, and his avowed opposition to Bush at the Oscars.Originally posted by PenisFace
You just admitted you get your opinions from right wing articles... Wouldn't that mean you don't do any thinking for yourself?
I usually make up my own mind, and praise the articles that agree with it.
These articles just do me the favor of preventing me from wasting 2hours of my life I could never get back.
The 9/11 commission actually praised Bush's 7- minute delay in the classroom.
The also approved the review of the Bin Laden's family right to leave when they did -- which by the way was ordered by Clarke, who is taken as gospel by Moore.Comment
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Stop it. Don't you know that some people don't want to hear that the sky is blue? Damn you, some people HATE the color blue!!Originally posted by BustIt
The 9/11 commission actually praised Bush's 7- minute delay in the classroom.
The also approved the review of the Bin Laden's family right to leave when they did -- which by the way was ordered by Clarke, who is taken as gospel by Moore.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

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Remind me of something...Originally posted by BustIt
The 9/11 commission actually praised Bush's 7- minute delay in the classroom.
The also approved the review of the Bin Laden's family right to leave when they did -- which by the way was ordered by Clarke, who is taken as gospel by Moore.
Who appointed the 9/11 commision?

Also, post a link to the commision praising Bush's 7 minute delay in the classroom.Last edited by Mr.Fiction; 06-28-2004, 10:18 PM.Comment
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Are you hinting that Bush appointed the 9/11 commission?Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
Remind me of something...
Who appointed the 9/11 commision?

Also, post a link to the commision praising Bush's 7 minute delay in the classroom.
If he did, they have certainly done a good job of making you believe otherwise.
Is that what you are saying?Comment
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I'm telling you for the last time, the sky IS blue!When Moore takes us to Iraq, on the eve of war, he shows placid scenes of an untroubled land on the brink of imperial annihilation. With all the leisurely strolling and kite-flying, it is unclear if Iraqis are living under a murderous dictatorship or in a Valtrex commercial. In Moore's telling of the invasion, the shock-and-awe is less high-value-target/smart-bombing, more Dresden/Hiroshima. According to the footage that ensues, our pilots seem to have hit nothing but women and children. If Moore's documentarian gig were to fall through, he could easily seek employment as an Al Jazeera cameraman.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

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I also disagree with the assumption here that the burden is on me to disprove Moore's assertions.Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
Remind me of something...
Who appointed the 9/11 commision?

Also, post a link to the commision praising Bush's 7 minute delay in the classroom.
I am merely providing *critical* links for those who have expressed an interest,
for those who are not simply content to swallow whatever assertions that Moore makes in his movieComment
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I'm really starting to love this Labash guy.There is plenty of grist for skeptics of the war to argue that the chances of a shiny, happy democracy's flowering in Iraq reside somewhere between slim and nil. But those are still better odds than the ones on Moore's someday making an intellectually honest film.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

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Originally posted by Pornkings
everything in the movie is based on facts and public record..
do you really think he is lying?? people arn't dumb they are just afraid to speak out.. this documantary will open peoples eyes
lets see bush steal another electionAnd this is on Moore's assertion right?everything in the movie is based on facts and public record
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More neo-con name calling, how impressive!Originally posted by CDSmith
I'm telling you for the last time, the sky IS blue!
Every scene described in the paragraph you posted is footage from Iraq. They are facts of history.
Is anyone ever going to post one thing that isn't true in the movie?
You may be told by the right wing media to disagree with Moore's opinion of Bush, but you still can't dispute a single thing in the movie. Why not?
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Originally posted by dig420
anyone who's still a conservative after four years of Bush is a deficient unit and there's not much point in trying to explain anything to them. If they could comprehend it they would have gotten it by now.
F9-11 won't be as effective as The Great Dictator, but it'll be effective.Good argument Dig. I remember your sterling performances on Netpond. Nothing deficient about youeverything in the movie is based on facts and public record
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