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#1

Chargebacks, Under $25 Not Allowed To Chargeback?

06-10-2004, 08:04 AM

Is this true?

One cannot chargeback a membership if its less than $25 bucks.

I have noticed some chargebacks lately, more than ever, but one thing I noticed is they are all for big memberships.

$35+ or even like 3 month memberships for $49.99 or whatever.

so I think i read somehere or was told that if its under $25 they cant chargeback like this on a site, VISA wont allow it.

admittedly, ive nevr seen a 4.95 trial chargeback, only bigger numbers, can anyone verify this?

And if so, i think i will start pushing sponsors who offer smaller sign ups instead of the bigger then, because even with killer sites with exclusive content, for some reason chargebacks are making a comeback.

weird.

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#2

06-10-2004, 08:06 AM

u can chargeback 0.01 cents

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#3

06-10-2004, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
Is this true?

One cannot chargeback a membership if its less than $25 bucks.

I have noticed some chargebacks lately, more than ever, but one thing I noticed is they are all for big memberships.

$35+ or even like 3 month memberships for $49.99 or whatever.

so I think i read somehere or was told that if its under $25 they cant chargeback like this on a site, VISA wont allow it.

admittedly, ive nevr seen a 4.95 trial chargeback, only bigger numbers, can anyone verify this?

And if so, i think i will start pushing sponsors who offer smaller sign ups instead of the bigger then, because even with killer sites with exclusive content, for some reason chargebacks are making a comeback.

weird.

maybe people are more willing to chargeback a higher amount because they don't think the site is worth 35+

20 or 25 seems like a more reasonable price for most sites out there anyways
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#4

06-10-2004, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by Mystery Man
This is not true.

You can chargeback any amount, however its all about bank policies and yes it is true that some banks refuse to assist you in charging back charges below $25

ok, so i was told somewhat correct info.

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#5

06-10-2004, 08:11 AM

eh just called my bank hahah they charge back any damn thing.

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#6

06-10-2004, 08:12 AM

No, you were told incorrect info...

You can charge back w/e you want, is just that some banks may not give u the right attention for a $10 chargeback, and from my understanding based on studies, people won't c/b or fight a charge of $10 or less.
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#7

06-10-2004, 05:48 PM

here's the correct answer, fletch.

banks will allow you to file a chargeback no matter the amount.

however, the costs of doing a chargeback (for the bank) average out to about $25 per chargeback (including employee salary, paperwork, phone bills, etc).

so when you call to dispute a $10 charge, the back will simply write it off and issue a credit from their pockets, rather than waste money and resources going through the entire chargeback process.

however, if the charge is recurring or you have a suspicious history of unrecognized amounts under $25, the bank will go through the entire chargeback process.

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#8

06-10-2004, 06:05 PM

psyko, when the banks know you have a porn account, all bets are out the window, and they judge you by entirely different standards. Even the charges involved are higher when you have a porn account...at least that has been my experience.

Rick Latona wrote an article about chargebacks. He quoted Chris Mallick who was very vague as to where he got his information. The truth is that as pointed out above, each bank sets its standards regarding how they will handle adult accounts and chargebacks. They can and will issue chargebacks on any amount whenever they feel the action is necessary.

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#9

06-10-2004, 06:06 PM

i see $14.95 chargebacks every now and then in my stats
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#10

06-10-2004, 06:08 PM

im gonna charge all my members an extra $24.95

free money!
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#11

06-10-2004, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by EscortBiz
u can chargeback 0.01 cents

I do all the time

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#12

06-10-2004, 06:15 PM

fuck charging back, maybee it's because I'am canadian and my bank and visa sucks, but when I have a legitimate chargeback, the whole process takes atleast 2 to 3 months..

Where as these fags on paysites just call up and it gets done in 5 minutes.
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#13

06-10-2004, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by MicroChick
psyko, when the banks know you have a porn account, all bets are out the window, and they judge you by entirely different standards. Even the charges involved are higher when you have a porn account...at least that has been my experience.

Rick Latona wrote an article about chargebacks. He quoted Chris Mallick who was very vague as to where he got his information. The truth is that as pointed out above, each bank sets its standards regarding how they will handle adult accounts and chargebacks. They can and will issue chargebacks on any amount whenever they feel the action is necessary.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...78#post4403578

I'm speaking as an employee of a bank who has been doing Visa Customer Service for nearly 3 years.

I can assure you customers with porn memberships aren't treated differently. For the most part, agents aren't even aware that the charge in question is for porn. IPSPs aren't something that are covered in training. Your average, run of the mill phone agent knows very little about IPSPs. And it's not like the statement says "Hardcore XXX" or "Hot Anal Sex".

I'm not sure what you mean about the charges being higher. Are you speaking from the merchant/IPSP/webmaster side or as a customer? Rarely are there charges for a customer doing a chargeback.

And as I said, the bank will do a chargeback when they deem it necessary. But from a logical and business standpoint, banks will very rarely dispute a charge that could end up costing them $20 or $40 or more when they can simply take a $10 loss instead.

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#14

06-10-2004, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by MicroChick
psyko, when the banks know you have a porn account, all bets are out the window, and they judge you by entirely different standards. Even the charges involved are higher when you have a porn account...at least that has been my experience.

Rick Latona wrote an article about chargebacks. He quoted Chris Mallick who was very vague as to where he got his information. The truth is that as pointed out above, each bank sets its standards regarding how they will handle adult accounts and chargebacks. They can and will issue chargebacks on any amount whenever they feel the action is necessary.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...78#post4403578

even though you dont like me anymore, i still love your posts.

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#15

06-10-2004, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by Pipecrew
fuck charging back, maybee it's because I'am canadian and my bank and visa sucks, but when I have a legitimate chargeback, the whole process takes atleast 2 to 3 months..

Where as these fags on paysites just call up and it gets done in 5 minutes.

When a chargeback is done, the merchant has a set amount of time to respond to the chargeback request, depending on the type of chargeback. The entire process can indeed take 60 days or more if the merchant waits until the last minute to file/send the proper documents or if they decide to contest the chargeback.

However, IPSPs do not bother to contest the charges and a chargeback is issued immediately. Unfortunately, it's simple not cost-effective, and nearly impossible as well, for an IPSP to contest a chargeback.

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#16

06-10-2004, 06:23 PM

Psycho514: as i said earlier, i called my bank.

they said theyd charge back ANY amount hehehe

so i think the banks decide. crazy bastards... i tried to cash a 1k Bank of America check at a B of A this week, they said they could verify signatires by phone anymore

hahaha

banks are ass bakcwards

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#17

06-10-2004, 06:29 PM

to clarify i didnt want to simply desposit the check into my acct (not with B of A) I wanted to clear the check and make sure it was good before i even walked out with money.

I was appauled to find they could not verify the funds for a B of A check ina fucking B of A from the same state as the check.

they refused to verify the funds over the phone and would not verify the signature.

ignorant fucking banks.

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#18

06-10-2004, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
Psycho514: as i said earlier, i called my bank.

they said theyd charge back ANY amount hehehe

so i think the banks decide.

to decision to write off or go through with the chargeback is transparent to the customer. we still tell our customers we're going to investigate the charge, even if we'll simply be writing it off. otherwise, it leaves us open to potential abuse.

how many people do you think would order a pizza ever 3 or 4 months for $20 and then call for a chargeback if they knew it would be written off and no actual investigation would be done?

but yes, like i've said, the decision ultimately belongs to the issuing bank. they can file a chargeback for a $0.01 charge if they wanted. but from a business standpoint, it would be stupid to do so.

look at it this way. you call your bank for a chargeback and you're on the phone for 5 mins. already, that's like a $1.25 in salary for whoever takes the call. for the amount of work involved, it's simply not cost effective.

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#19

06-10-2004, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by psyko514
to decision to write off or go through with the chargeback is transparent to the customer. we still tell our customers we're going to investigate the charge, even if we'll simply be writing it off. otherwise, it leaves us open to potential abuse.

how many people do you think would order a pizza ever 3 or 4 months for $20 and then call for a chargeback if they knew it would be written off and no actual investigation would be done?

but yes, like i've said, the decision ultimately belongs to the issuing bank. they can file a chargeback for a $0.01 charge if they wanted. but from a business standpoint, it would be stupid to do so.

look at it this way. you call your bank for a chargeback and you're on the phone for 5 mins. already, that's like a $1.25 in salary for whoever takes the call. for the amount of work involved, it's simply not cost effective.

i dont doubt anything youve said in this thread man.

i hate banks, i dont even do my own banking.

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#20

06-10-2004, 06:37 PM

Ive had 5 $ trials charged back ...

Originally posted by rayadp05

I rebooted, deleted temp files, history, cookies and everything...still cannot view the news clip. All I see is that fucking gay ass music video from "Rick Roll". Anyone else have a different link to the news clip?
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#21

06-10-2004, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Doctor Dre
Ive had 5 $ trials charged back ...

geez guys maybe we should name programs, ive never had a trial chargeback.

what site?

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#22

06-10-2004, 06:39 PM

i wonder if surfers shop for banks that issue 1 cent chargebacks

what is the world coming to

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#23

06-10-2004, 08:32 PM

Psyko, I'm sorry, but my experience with Wells Fargo is typical of other banks. They asked what kind of business the merchant's account would be handling. What are you supposed to do...lie to them? The answer was: adult accounts aka porn! The only reason the account was granted is because the customer was a *very good* customer.

Chargebacks were looked at carefully, since the bank knew the account was handling adult membership accounts. If they were not told the truth in the beginning, once they found out the truth, the account would have been closed immediately for lying. The customer of Wells Fargo (me...my client) was charged more for each chargeback than if the account had been a non-porn account. The number of chargebacks for an adult merchant's account was limited to less than those acceptable for a standard non-porn account.

This was in the late 90's. Now, look at what is happening! More scrutiny involving adult accounts, and the 1% Visa chargeback limit.

Fletch, I still *LUV U*...I just wish you had been kinder to Amp. I like your posts, and we don't have to agree about everything to like each other, do we? You keep being Fletch, and I'll keep being confucy. Thanks for bringing up this topic because there seems to be some confusion as to what banks are doing these days. Rick Latona mouths off about subjects when he knows nothing. Then when you ask him to be specific, of course, he can't because he has no sources to give you.
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#24

06-10-2004, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by MicroChick

Fletch, I still *LUV U*...I just wish you had been kinder to Amp.

thing is you dont know the amp i know.

you dont know the amp on the p0hone at 4-5 am drunk threatening me and my girl. gonna "ruin me" and "fuck my life up"

you dont know the amp who i know.

sorry but when you try and be my friend and then literally stab me in the throat online why should i give a fuck about you?

i have been threatened and hounded for long enough.

you have no idea, i even thanked AMp within the last 2 fucking weeks about eh LAST time he did this.

do you even know this is NOT the first time he went off on me? and the last time it was over fucking POST COUNT???

i have too much history with this to just allow this to go down.

sorry but you really dont know the facts dear.

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#25

06-10-2004, 08:51 PM

ive had my own merchant account, and i found from experiance that chargebacks come 5-6 months after the transaction date which we found shocking.

theres people who know the system and abuse it.

however you can appeal any chargeback claims and you can win them but im not sure how this system works in porn.

we were billed 25.00 usd a chargeback and had to foot the bill, so merhcants in this industry probably pocket appealed transactions to recoupe some lose.
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#26

06-10-2004, 08:53 PM

I have no idea what is or has been happening between you and Amp because I thought it was a *board show!* It's difficult for readers to know what is real and what is BS. I do believe that Amp is bi-polar, and his posts reveal what is happening with his mood swings. If he could get leveled out, I think you would have a funny creative guy without the anger and the outbursts.

Fletch, I hope I never know the Amp you are describing. Amp and I have disagreed about many things, but I never took any of it seriously even when I got banned by Lensman while I was fighting with Amp. Even that didn't phase me. I refuse to allow board antics to interfere with my private life.

I repeat, how can anyone really take boards in a serious way when they are called: gofuckyourself.com and just-blow-me.com
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Fletch XXX

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#27

06-10-2004, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by MicroChick
I have no idea what is or has been happening between you and Amp because I thought it was a *board show!* It's difficult for readers to know what is real and what is BS. I do believe that Amp is bi-polar, and his posts reveal what is happening with his mood swings. If he could get leveled out, I think you would have a funny creative guy without the anger and the outbursts.

Fletch, I hope I never know the Amp you are describing. Amp and I have disagreed about many things, but I never took any of it seriously even when I got banned by Lensman while I was fighting with Amp. Even that didn't phase me. I refuse to allow board antics to interfere with my private life.

I repeat, how can anyone really take boards in a serious way when they are called: gofuckyourself.com and just-blow-me.com

Micorchick.

i have had amp on the phone at 4 am threatening me telling me he would "ruion me" quote and bump "every thread i ever made" and make sure i "never got another job"

sorry but as much sympathy as you feel.

until youve heard his fucking lips mouthing off at you and calling you a piece of shit, and twelling you you will never be anything and telling yuou he would use his GFY powers to "ruin me" you REALLY need to realize our history is deeper than you know, and until you know it, dont frame me as being wrong.

the moment you threaten my girl i care less about your fucking misery, i dont care about you being bipolar.

all i know is the truth.

if you heard amp on the ophone 2 years ago threatening me and my girl you wouldnt be running your mouth here tonight.

sorry but i dont take shit from mouth running dead beat dads.

bipolar or not.

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#28

06-10-2004, 09:00 PM

MicroChick, I'm talking bank/customer (ie. our surfers) relationships. I'm not talking about webmasters and merchant accounts.

I'm aware of the problems banks have with issuing merchant accounts, and when you look at companies like XPics, there's a reason for that.

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#29

06-10-2004, 09:05 PM

I had to chargeback something just under $50 when a place in England double-billed me, and the bank said they don't dispute those amounts...just issue a credit.

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#30

06-10-2004, 09:09 PM

I worked for a small site years back it recurred at 5.99 people tried to charge back all time, this is when you could still fight it . I know because my boss would get the letters in the mail stating the chargeback. No amount is safe and this was before you could charge back on line. lol
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#31

06-10-2004, 09:10 PM

Psyko, as usual, the bad guys make it rough for the rest who are trying to follow the rules. If pornsite owners with paysites had taken care of their members years ago, we wouldn't be under the gun like we are today. I was taught in retailing that the CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT! The one big thing that is still lacking on the internet in porn and non-porn is good customer service. I was ripped off so many times by over-charges, double billing, and dirty little tricks by pay website oweners that I stopped joining sites. Eventually, it all comes back home.

Fletch, do what you feel you must do. I wouldn't appreciate someone calling and threatening me.
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#32

06-10-2004, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by MicroChick
Psyko, as usual, the bad guys make it rough for the rest who are trying to follow the rules. If pornsite owners with paysites had taken care of their members years ago, we wouldn't be under the gun like we are today. I was taught in retailing that the CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT! The one big thing that is still lacking on the internet in porn and non-porn is good customer service. I was ripped off so many times by over-charges, double billing, and dirty little tricks by pay website oweners that I stopped joining sites. Eventually, it all comes back home.

Exactly. Unfortunately, it all boils down to a few rotten apples spoiling the bunch.

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#33

06-10-2004, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by MicroChick

Fletch, do what you feel you must do. I wouldn't appreciate someone calling and threatening me.

I invited the call to stop it.

what i got was violence and hate.

what you consider some inocent bipolar person.

was once a violent threat to me.

and even AFTER that, i befrended him and what i got in return was more threats on my girl and another board outburst.

sorry Confucy but once you stab me i will fuck your skull.

i dont care about bipolar, i dont care about anything other than how i get treated.

piss on me i piss on you.

your boy todd pissed on me and my girl more than once.

ill spare you my ideas, but never call me bad for anytyhing when ive been treated far worst

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#34

06-10-2004, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by MicroChick
Psyko, as usual, the bad guys make it rough for the rest who are trying to follow the rules. If pornsite owners with paysites had taken care of their members years ago, we wouldn't be under the gun like we are today. I was taught in retailing that the CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT! The one big thing that is still lacking on the internet in porn and non-porn is good customer service. I was ripped off so many times by over-charges, double billing, and dirty little tricks by pay website oweners that I stopped joining sites. Eventually, it all comes back home.

Man I could tell horror stories about customer service back in 98/99. Like a fucking crank yankers episode I shit you not. Had I known then what I know now I swear I would have gone postal.

There are some people out there that deserve slow painful torture for what this industry has come to.
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#35

06-10-2004, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by psyko514
When a chargeback is done, the merchant has a set amount of time to respond to the chargeback request, depending on the type of chargeback. The entire process can indeed take 60 days or more if the merchant waits until the last minute to file/send the proper documents or if they decide to contest the chargeback.

However, IPSPs do not bother to contest the charges and a chargeback is issued immediately. Unfortunately, it's simple not cost-effective, and nearly impossible as well, for an IPSP to contest a chargeback.

Interesting, didn't know that. Great info.
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#36

06-10-2004, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
eh just called my bank hahah they charge back any damn thing.

looks like you're going to be getting a lot of free porn

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#37

06-11-2004, 04:30 AM

I've seen people charge back a $1.95 trial. Fucking unbelievable. I lose more money than that in my couch.
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#38

06-11-2004, 04:37 AM

yeah weird!

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49thParallel

So Fucking Banned

Join Date: Jul 2002

Posts: 1197
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#39

06-11-2004, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by psyko514
Exactly. Unfortunately, it all boils down to a few rotten apples spoiling the bunch.

As always, I am amazed by how the vast majority of adult webmasters, including the self professed players on this board, still don't have a clue how this industry works. And that sleazy business tactics are the norm...and not the exception.

I challenge any one of you to take a look at the programs you are promoting. Click thru to their signup page. Then click through to the T & C link. Now, if you search through the first 1,000 to 2,000 words (no exaggeration), 99% of the time you will find a clause that says something to the effect that "trials must be cancelled 24 hours before end of trial to avoid rebill".

Add on top a couple of trial cross-sells, and suddenly the consumer could be stuck with 1 or more memberships that mysteriously rebill, even though he/she cancels at the "logical" end of the trial.

It's all smoke and mirrors..and in the end..fraudelent. So count your lucky stars that you only get a few chargebacks. Because in reality, you are scamming the consumer out of his/her hard earned money on a daily basis.

Last edited by 49thParallel; 06-11-2004, 06:49 AM.
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49thParallel

So Fucking Banned

Join Date: Jul 2002

Posts: 1197
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#40

06-11-2004, 07:00 AM

And further to my post above, we can thank all of the snake-oil salesmen out there for making it virtually impossible to offer a straight forward honest program.

After all, it only makes sense that the consumer will pick a cheap trial over a fairly priced membership. It isn't until to late that the consumer discovers (when they get their cc bill) that the trial was rigged to cost them alot more then they would ever have imagined.

So, to make a long story short...if I heard that every single transaction was being charged back, I would do a little jig and yell at the top of my lungs, "sweet justice".
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