Originally posted by baddog you must think I went to bed, when in reality you have begun to bore me . . . that is all
not you... fuckin whats his face, blind dog, blinky...he pissed me off with what he posted about how i dont repect those who fought for my country and how he fought for this country and his whole family...whatever
Yea, it'll be funny when in 3-4 yrs everyone is regretting they voted for bush, again. I hope when your businesses are threatened by them in the future you get to see how Bush cares about lower-middle class citizens.
I support the President's and the Congress's declaration of war on global "terrorism". I support the President's policy of pre-emption. I support the take down of the Taliban and the take down of Saddam and the Baathist party. I do not support the President in general...but I find Senator Kerry to be a piss poor substitute. For the first time since I have been of voting age...I am considering not voting...but I will wait and see what happens between now and November.
When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
Originally posted by theking I support the President's and the Congress's declaration of war on global "terrorism". I support the President's policy of pre-emption. I support the take down of the Taliban and the take down of Saddam and the Baathist party. I do not support the President in general...but I find Senator Kerry to be a piss poor substitute. For the first time since I have been of voting age...I am considering not voting...but I will wait and see what happens between now and November.
Originally posted by theking I support the President's and the Congress's declaration of war on global "terrorism". I support the President's policy of pre-emption. I support the take down of the Taliban and the take down of Saddam and the Baathist party. I do not support the President in general...but I find Senator Kerry to be a piss poor substitute. For the first time since I have been of voting age...I am considering not voting...but I will wait and see what happens between now and November.
bush out at all costs...clinton didnt work out too bad
Originally posted by bluedevil come on though, he lied about WMD...the only reason why a coaltion was formed...not because of atrocities
BIG DIFFERENCE...so you're supporting everything else about the war except why it started....not arguing...just wondering the logic
The President did not lie about WMD. The 14 US intel agencies...as well as the British...Israeli...German...and French intel agencies concurred that Saddam possessed WMD's/WMD materials. George Tenet testified to this in open hearings and the foreign intel agencies have not denied that they concurred with the US intel agencies. It has been reported that George Tenet personally told President Bush...when the President questioned the intel..."Don't worry about it. It is a slam dunk".
In response to someone that posted prior to the war "there is not a single reason for the war" I posted this...
#1. Iraq was defeated on the field of battle and signed certain terms. Iraq has been in violation of those terms since they signed the terms in '91. The USA has demanded that those terms be complied with and that Iraq remain a defeated country.
#2. Iraq attempted to assasinate a former American President.
#3. Iraq has fired upon, almost daily, for almost 11 years, USA military forces.
#4. Iraq is believed to have, or are acquiring, or are attempting to acquire WMD's. The USA will not allow that.
#5. Iraq has, on multiple occassions called for Americans, to be killed where ever they are found. Thus they are a sworn enemy of the USA.
#6. Iraq is a strategic piece of real estate for future military operations against our enemies in the region, which number in the 100's of millions.
#7. Iraq is a strategic piece of real estate for its oil fields and for the surrounding oil fields, for as the worlds oil supplies dwindle the USA will be in a position to control the dwindling oil supplies for its use and the use of its European allies.
#8. A take over of Iraq sends a very powerful signal to the other countries in that area of the world that if they don't get their act together they will be next.
Any one of the reasons above is a reason for war.
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I served in the 1st Gulf war...and I have supported taking down Saddam...within a year after the cease fire agreements. My complaint is that we waited 12 years before taking him down.
When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
#2. Iraq attempted to assasinate a former American President.
The following is a list of prominent foreign individuals whose assassination (or planning for same) the United States has been involved in since the end of the Second World War.
1949 ? Kim Koo, Korean opposition leader
1950s ? CIA/Neo-Nazi hit list of more than 200 political figures in West Germany to be ?put out of the way? in the event of a Soviet invasion
1950s ? Zhou Enlai, Prime minister of China, several attempts on his life
1950s, 1963 ? Sukarno, President of Indonesia
1951 ? Kim Il Sung, Premier of North Korea
1950s (mid) ? Claro M. Recto, Philippines opposition leader
1955 ? Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India
1957 ? Gamal Abdul Nasser, President of Egypt
1959 ? Norodom Sihanouk, leader of Cambodia
1960 ? Brig. Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq
1950-70s ? Jose Figueres, President of Costa Rica, two attempts on his life
1961 ? Francois ?Papa Doc? Duvalier, leader of Haiti
1961 ? Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo
1961 ? Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic
1963 ? Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam
1960s ? Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, many attempts and plots on his life
1960s ? Raul Castro, high official in government of Cuba
1965 ? Francisco Caamano, Dominican Republic opposition leader
1965-6 ? Charles de Gaulle, President of France
1967 ? Che Guevara, Cuban leader
1970-1973 ? Salvador Allende, President of Chile
1970 ? Gen. Rene Schneider, Commander-in-Chief of Army, Chile
1970s, 1981 ? General Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama
1972 ? General Manuel Noriega, Chief of Panama Intelligence
1975 ? Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire
1976 ? Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica
1980-1986 ? Moammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya, several plots and attempts upon his life
1982 ? Ayatollah Khomeini, leader of Iran
1983 ? Gen. Ahmed Dlimi, Moroccan Army commander
1983 ? Miguel d?Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua
1984 ? The nine comandantes of the Sandinista National Directorate, Nicaragua
1985 ? Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanese Shiite leader
1991-2000 ? Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq
1998-2000 ? Osama bin Laden, leading Islamic militant
1999-2000 ? Slobodan Milosevic, President of Yugoslavia
By voting for Bush, you forgive him for lying to you, for comitting your sons and daughters to a war without a premise, you forgive him for the thousands of iraqi civilians that are dead and the 800 soldiers (soon to be 1000) that died after "operations" ended
... i just, i just, i cant take your list seriously...
Do you think a signle god damn american cared that they tried to assassinate bush, oror any other ridiculous god damn reason other than the fact that we were PUMPED full of garbage on a daily basis by the media
"WMD in iraq... IRAQ attack imminent...IRAQ has nuclear weapons and plans on using them..."
come on dude, im in shock that history repeated itself, but it did and november will prove that
THEKING...you are saying YES to people lying to you, you are saying YES to bringing death upon THOUSANDS OF iraqi civilians...why?
cause iraq is a strategic location for future operations...
Originally posted by theking The President did not lie about WMD. The 14 US intel agencies...as well as the British...Israeli...German...and French intel agencies concurred that Saddam possessed WMD's/WMD materials. George Tenet testified to this in open hearings and the foreign intel agencies have not denied that they concurred with the US intel agencies. It has been reported that George Tenet personally told President Bush...when the President questioned the intel..."Don't worry about it. It is a slam dunk".
...Intelligence that was false and failed on every level...
and with such an important thing...a fucking war
bush knew about it...dont give me this blame shifting bullshit, a man of your intelligence souldnt buy into that...
Bush made this happen...
STATE OF THE UNION (PRESIDENT GW BUSH)
red denotes my favorite part
Twelve years ago, Saddam Hussein faced the prospect of being the last casualty in a war he had started and lost. To spare himself, he agreed to disarm of all weapons of mass destruction. For the next 12 years, he systematically violated that agreement. He pursued chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, even while inspectors were in his country. Nothing to date has restrained him from his pursuit of these weapons -- not economic sanctions, not isolation from the civilized world, not even cruise missile strikes on his military facilities.
Almost three months ago, the United Nations Security Council gave Saddam Hussein his final chance to disarm. He has shown instead utter contempt for the United Nations, and for the opinion of the world. The 108 U.N. inspectors were sent to conduct -- were not sent to conduct a scavenger hunt for hidden materials across a country the size of California. The job of the inspectors is to verify that Iraq's regime is disarming. It is up to Iraq to show exactly where it is hiding its banned weapons, lay those weapons out for the world to see, and destroy them as directed. Nothing like this has happened.
The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax -- enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.
The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin -- enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.
Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them.
U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents. Inspectors recently turned up 16 of them -- despite Iraq's recent declaration denying their existence. Saddam Hussein has not accounted for the remaining 29,984 of these prohibited munitions. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.
From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors. Saddam Hussein has not disclosed these facilities. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.
The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb. The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide.
The dictator of Iraq is not disarming. To the contrary; he is deceiving. From intelligence sources we know, for instance, that thousands of Iraqi security personnel are at work hiding documents and materials from the U.N. inspectors, sanitizing inspection sites and monitoring the inspectors themselves. Iraqi officials accompany the inspectors in order to intimidate witnesses.
Iraq is blocking U-2 surveillance flights requested by the United Nations. Iraqi intelligence officers are posing as the scientists inspectors are supposed to interview. Real scientists have been coached by Iraqi officials on what to say. Intelligence sources indicate that Saddam Hussein has ordered that scientists who cooperate with U.N. inspectors in disarming Iraq will be killed, along with their families.
Year after year, Saddam Hussein has gone to elaborate lengths, spent enormous sums, taken great risks to build and keep weapons of mass destruction. But why? The only possible explanation, the only possible use he could have for those weapons, is to dominate, intimidate, or attack.
Originally posted by bluedevil BUT WHAT WAS TEH SELLING POINT???
WMD...
what made americans react in such a way that action was necessary...
listen all of that shit went on for 10 years
and overnight its a necessetity to get rid of him???
actually... as soon as Bush II gets elected
come on
HE LIED
get over it
As I pointed out...he did not lie...he used WMD as the reason because he was told that Saddam had WMD's/WMD materials by our intel agencies and the British...Israeli...German and French intel agencies concurred...but in my opinion WMD's were the least of the reasons for invading Iraq. In my opinion...it was...and is...a bold forward thinking action designed to change the face of the middle east...an extention of the declared war on global "terrorism".
When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
Originally posted by theking As I pointed out...he did not lie...he used WMD as the reason because he was told that Saddam had WMD's/WMD materials by our intel agencies and the British...Israeli...German and French intel agencies concurred...but in my opinion WMD's were the least of the reasons for invading Iraq. In my opinion...it was...and is...a bold forward thinking action designed to change the face of the middle east...an extention of the declared war on global "terrorism".
he lied boss...he told the lie and continued it for months and months
Originally posted by bluedevil #2. Iraq attempted to assasinate a former American President.
The following is a list of prominent foreign individuals whose assassination (or planning for same) the United States has been involved in since the end of the Second World War.
1949 ? Kim Koo, Korean opposition leader
1950s ? CIA/Neo-Nazi hit list of more than 200 political figures in West Germany to be ?put out of the way? in the event of a Soviet invasion
1950s ? Zhou Enlai, Prime minister of China, several attempts on his life
1950s, 1963 ? Sukarno, President of Indonesia
1951 ? Kim Il Sung, Premier of North Korea
1950s (mid) ? Claro M. Recto, Philippines opposition leader
1955 ? Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India
1957 ? Gamal Abdul Nasser, President of Egypt
1959 ? Norodom Sihanouk, leader of Cambodia
1960 ? Brig. Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq
1950-70s ? Jose Figueres, President of Costa Rica, two attempts on his life
1961 ? Francois ?Papa Doc? Duvalier, leader of Haiti
1961 ? Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo
1961 ? Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic
1963 ? Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam
1960s ? Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, many attempts and plots on his life
1960s ? Raul Castro, high official in government of Cuba
1965 ? Francisco Caamano, Dominican Republic opposition leader
1965-6 ? Charles de Gaulle, President of France
1967 ? Che Guevara, Cuban leader
1970-1973 ? Salvador Allende, President of Chile
1970 ? Gen. Rene Schneider, Commander-in-Chief of Army, Chile
1970s, 1981 ? General Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama
1972 ? General Manuel Noriega, Chief of Panama Intelligence
1975 ? Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire
1976 ? Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica
1980-1986 ? Moammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya, several plots and attempts upon his life
1982 ? Ayatollah Khomeini, leader of Iran
1983 ? Gen. Ahmed Dlimi, Moroccan Army commander
1983 ? Miguel d?Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua
1984 ? The nine comandantes of the Sandinista National Directorate, Nicaragua
1985 ? Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanese Shiite leader
1991-2000 ? Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq
1998-2000 ? Osama bin Laden, leading Islamic militant
1999-2000 ? Slobodan Milosevic, President of Yugoslavia
--------------------------------
you were saying?
I suppose you have a point...what is it?
When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
#7. Iraq is a strategic piece of real estate for its oil fields and for the surrounding oil fields, for as the worlds oil supplies dwindle the USA will be in a position to control the dwindling oil supplies for its use and the use of its European allies.
take a lesson from joe citizen...live humbly...be at peace with yourself then your fucking neighbor...just not gonna happen...this will be my response from now on...life is too fucking short
Originally posted by bluedevil america has tried to kill an exponentially higher amount of people than saddam....
you can't whine when someone tries to kill one of our leaders...thats my point
and your list of reasons is a greedy one...that's why people dont like america, cause they think we have goals like that...
The government of America acts in what it perceives to be in the best interests of the nation...this is a duty of our elected representatives...and they would be derilect in their duty if they did not act in what they think are in the interests of the Nation. What is the percieved interests of America may not necessarily be in the interests of other nations...or a side effect could be good for other nations. This is what all governments do...but unfortunately for many countries on this earth they do not have the ability to act in there own interests...and are delegated to the side lines...as non participants.
Are the actions of the American government right or wrong? As I pointed out right and wrong are subjective terms.
When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
Originally posted by theking The government of America acts in what it perceives to be in the best interests of the nation...this is a duty of our elected representatives...and they would be derilect in their duty if they did not act in what they think are in the interests of the Nation. What is the percieved interests of America may not necessarily be in the interests of other nations...or a side effect could be good for other nations. This is what all governments do...but unfortunately for many countries on this earth they do not have the ability to act in there own interests...and are delegated to the side lines...as non participants.
Are the actions of the American government right or wrong? As I pointed out right and wrong are subjective terms.
its still murder, so what, the iraqis thought what they were doing was in the best interest of their people... you are TOO biased cant talk to you...
if you want blood on your hands, if you want to go to hell, then this is the life for you... not me...
all i gotta say...
Originally posted by theking The government of America acts in what it perceives to be in the best interests of the nation
This admin acts in the best interest of itself and the corporations that bought it, not the people it represents. Not only should Bushco be tried for war crimes they should be tried for treason.
Originally posted by BlingDaddy
Is this man wearing a uniform? No... but he was attacked at 9-11...
is this kid wearing pizza over his body? no, he's an iraqi boy severely injured in an air raid...and your retarded point is?
like i said, 9/11 was ridiculous...but during the war we imposed 9/11 on Iraqi's every day...and for what? how can you tell me im wrong...how can you tell me innocent people dying is alright...how can you tell me that spilling more blood is the REAL american way of doing things...if that is what america is about...we should all move you fucking war monger
what all of you are saying is that Americans and the interests of America are more important than other people... your saying American life is worth more than other life...if that's not the belief of an evil doer...i dunno what is...
theking...your little list proves that, you can't deny it
Originally posted by theking I do not deny it...I live in the real world...not some idealistic world that will never exist...at least in your lifetime and mine.
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