I need a bible thumper to splain me somfin

Adam and Eve had 2 sons that went to some other place (the name escapes my mind right now) and chose wives....where this magical "other place" came from, and how it came to be is never explained.

but how could they have chosen wives if adam & eve were the first two people created? Where did these so called "wives" come from? Aliens?

Read my whole post, they went to an island, or another garden...i can't remember it's name...it's in the bible, look it up.

However, the bible doesn't explain how this other place came to be.

People in general are stupid.... the whole inbred thing would actually explain a lot about today's society.

Ahh...The bible.

Both the greatest fiction and the greatest horror stories all combined into one fucked up book.


Hey Amp...Let's not forget that Noah and his wife started it all over again with a bunch of animals on that ark.

adam and eve were amoebas :-P as they evolved the DNA changed, making us not really brothers/sisters :-P

Did Adam and Eve have bellybuttons?

Nice catch.

No - they were created, and had no umbilical cord

Genesis 1:26
"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"

First of all, who's "They" .. you see, if God were truely a single entity that's not what he would say ..

-Canibus


Where's Alien, he can explain this.

Chapter 8-Cain?s Wife?Who Was She?

It is not lawful to marry your sister, so who did Cain marry? Were there other people on the earth? Who lived in the land of Nod? Does this have any relevance to the gospel?

We don?t even know her name, yet she was discussed at the Scopes trial, mentioned in the play and movie Inherit the Wind {1} and the book and movie Contact, { 2} and has been talked about in countries all over the world. Is she the most-talked-about wife in history?

Skeptics have used Cain?s wife time and again to try to discredit the Book of Genesis as a true historical record. Sadly, most Christians have not been able to give an adequate answer to this question. As a result, the world thinks Christians cannot defend the authority of Scripture and, thus, the Christian faith.

For instance, at the historic Scopes trial in Tennessee in 1925, William Jennings Bryan, the prosecutor who stood for the Christian faith, failed to answer the question about Cain?s wife posed by the outspokenly anti-Christian ACLU {3} lawyer Clarence Darrow. {4}

The world?s press was focused on this trial, and what they heard has affected Christianity to this day?Christians are seen as unable to defend the biblical record. And skeptics then make the logically fallacious jump of concluding that the biblical record is indefensible!

The atheist Carl Sagan used this same question in his book Contact {5} (which was on The New York Times best-seller list), and the movie Contact, which was based on Sagan?s book, also used it.

In the book, the fictional character Ellie could not get answers about Cain?s wife, and other questions, from a minister?s wife, who was the leader of a church discussion group. {6}

Sagan cleverly used common questions?such as, ?Who was Cain?s wife???questions that are often directed at Christians in an attempt to ?prove? the Bible cannot be defended.

Sadly, most Christians probably could not answer these questions! And yet, there are answers. But, since most churches are lacking in the teaching of apologetics, {7} particularly in regard to the Book of Genesis, most believers in the church are not ?ready always to give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope in you? #1Pe 3:15.

Why Is It Important?

Many skeptics have claimed that, for Cain to find a wife, there must have been other ?races? of people on the earth who were not descendants of Adam and Eve. To many people, this question is a stumbling block to accepting the creation account in Genesis and its record of only one man and woman at the beginning of history?a record on which many Old and New Testament doctrines depend. {Cain?s wife? A question many Christians cannot answer. See Picture 132}

Defenders of the gospel must be able to show that all human beings are descendants of one man and one woman (Adam and Eve)?as only those people who are descendants of Adam and Eve can be saved. Thus, believers need to be able to account for Cain?s wife and show clearly that she was a descendant of Adam and Eve. (The relevant Bible passage is #Ge 4:1-5:5)

Before we answer this question, we will first show how important it is to the meaning of the gospel.

The First Man

?Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed on all men inasmuch as all sinned.? {#Ro 5:12}

We read in #1Co 15:45 that Adam was ?the first man.? God did not start by making a whole group of men.

The Bible makes it clear that only the descendants of Adam can be saved. #Ro 5 teaches that we sin because Adam sinned. The death penalty, which Adam received as judgment for his sin of rebellion, also passed on to all his descendants.

Since Adam was the head of the human race when he ?fell,? we who were in the loins of Adam ?fell? also. Thus, we are all separated from God. The final consequence of sin would be separation from God in our sinful state forever. However, the good news is that there is a way for us to return to God!

Because a man brought sin and death into the world, all the descendants of Adam need a sinless Man to pay the penalty for sin and the resulting judgment of death. However, the Bible teaches that ?all have sinned?. {#Ro 3:23} What is the solution?

right, I read that. But the lack of explanation on how this other magical place came to be is one thing, but it still doesn';t explain how there can possibly be any people there since supposedly Adam & Eve were the first (and only) two people on the planet.

therefore we must deduce that,

a) Either Adam & Eve had some daughters, sent them away to this faraway magical place, and didn't bother to clue their 2 sons in to this insignificant piece of information.

or

b) The bible is lying about everything. Adam & Eve were in fact NOT the only two people here making babies, and thus, everything that follows the foundation storyline of "Adam & Eve" and relies upon the premise set by it, is a baseless, factless, fairy tale.


yes?

We evolved from apes, silly.

the bible does not explain dinosaurs either also when the bible was written it was believed the earth was flat and heaven was above and hell was below well now that we know the earth is round where does that leave the theory? also explain how noah put 2 of all animals (they didnt fight) ona fucing boat with a 12 inch breathe hole and sailed for 40 days and nights how did tey all breathe where did all the shit and piss go and how the fuck did the boat that big stay together wit no metal straps the bible leaves much unexplained and it contridicts itself alot

adam & eve are the symbol of 2 alien's DNA.

It's a miracle!

How dare you question such things.

The Last Adam

God provided the solution?a way to deliver man from his wretched state. Paul explains in #1Co 15 that God provided another Adam! The Son of God took on human nature in addition to His full divinity, becoming a perfect God-Man?Jesus Christ. In His humanity He was a descendant of Adam (through Noah, Abraham and David)?He thus became our relation! He is called ?the last Adam?,{#1Co 15:45} because he took the place of the first Adam. He became the new head and, because He was sinless, He was able to pay the penalty for sin:

?For since by a man came death, by a man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.?{#1Co 15:21-22} {8}

Christ suffered death (the penalty for sin) on the cross, shedding His blood (?without shedding of blood is no remission? #Heb 9:22) so that those who repent of their sin of rebellion and put their trust in His work on the cross can be reconciled to God.

Since the Bible describes all human beings as sinners, except the God-Man Jesus, and we are all related (?And He has made all nations of men of one blood to dwell on all the face of the earth? #Ac 17:26), the gospel makes sense only on the basis that all humans alive and all who have ever lived are descendants of the first man Adam. {9} If this were not so, then the gospel could not be explained or defended.

The Book of Hebrews amplifies how Jesus took upon himself the nature of a man to save mankind. {#Heb 2:11-18}

Thus, only descendants of the first man Adam can be saved.

All Related

Thus, there was only one man at the beginning?made from the dust of the earth. {#Ge 2:7}

This also means that Cain?s wife was a descendant of Adam. She could not have come from another ?race? of people and must be one of Adam?s descendants.

The First Woman

In #Ge 3:20 we read, ?And Adam called his wife?s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.? {10} In other words, all people are descendants of Adam and Eve?she was the first woman.

Eve was made from Adam?s rib (or side)?this {#Ge 2:21-24} was a unique event. Jesus {#Mt 19:4-6} and Paul {#Eph 5:31} use this historical and one-time event as the doctrinal foundation for the marriage of one man to one woman.

Also, in #Ge 2:20, we are told that when Adam looked at the animals, he could not find a mate?there was no one of his kind.

All this makes it obvious that there was only one woman, Adam?s wife, at the beginning. There were never any other women around who were not Eve?s descendants.

If Christians cannot defend that all humans (including Cain?s wife) can trace their ancestry ultimately to Adam and Eve, then how can they understand and explain the gospel? How can they justify sending missionaries to every tribe and nation? Therefore, one needs to be able to answer the question about Cain?s wife, to illustrate that Christians can defend the gospel and all that it teaches.

Cain?s Brothers and Sisters

Cain was the first child of Adam and Eve recorded in Scripture. {#Ge 4:1} He and his brothers, Abel {#Ge 4:2} and Seth, {#Ge 4:25} were part of the first generation of children ever born on this earth.

Even though only these three males are mentioned by name, Adam and Eve had other children. In #Ge 5:4 a statement sums up the life of Adam and Eve??And the days of Adam after he had fathered Seth were eight hundred years. And he fathered sons and daughters.? This does not say when they were born. Many could have been born in the 130 years {#Ge 5:3} before Seth was born.

During their lives, Adam and Eve had a number of male and female children. The Jewish historian Josephus wrote that, ?The number of Adam?s children, as says the old tradition, was thirty-three sons and twenty-three daughters.? {11}

The Bible does not tell us how many children were born to Adam and Eve. However, considering their long life spans (Adam lived for 930 years?Gen. 5:5), it would seem reasonable to suggest there were many! Remember, they were commanded to ?Be fruitful, and multiply?. {#Ge 1:28}

The Wife

If we now work totally from Scripture, without any personal prejudices or other extra-biblical ideas, then back at the beginning, when there was only the first generation, brothers would have had to have married sisters or there would have been no more generations!

We are not told when Cain married or any of the details of other marriages and children, but we can say for certain that some brothers had to marry their sisters at the beginning of human history.

?Objections?

God?s Laws

Many people immediately reject the conclusion that Adam and Eve?s sons and daughters married each other by appealing to the law against brother-sister intermarriage. Some say that you cannot marry your relation. Actually, if you don?t marry your relation, you don?t marry a human! A wife is related to her husband even before they marry because all people are descendants of Adam and Eve?all are of ?one blood.? The law forbidding marriage between close relatives was not given until the time of Moses (Lev. 18-20). Provided marriage was one man to one woman for life (based on #Ge 1 and 2), there was no disobedience to God?s law originally when close relatives (even brothers and sisters) married each other.

Remember that Abraham married his half-sister. {#Ge 20:12} God blessed this union to produce the Hebrew people through Isaac and Jacob. It was not until some 400 years later that God gave Moses laws that forbade such marriages.

Biological Deformities

Today, brothers and sisters (and half-brothers and half-sisters, etc.) are not permitted by law to marry because their children have an unacceptably high risk of being deformed. The more closely the parents are related, the more likely it is that any offspring will be deformed.

There is a very sound genetic reason for such laws that is easy to understand. Every person has two sets of genes, there being some 130,000 pairs that specify how a person is put together and functions. Each person inherits one gene of each pair from each parent. Unfortunately, genes today contain many mistakes (because of sin and the Curse), and these mistakes show up in a variety of ways. For instance, some people let their hair grow over their ears to hide the fact that one ear is lower than the other?or perhaps someone?s nose is not quite in the middle of his or her face, or someone?s jaw is a little out of shape?and so on. Let?s face it, the main reason we call each other normal is because of our common agreement to do so!

The more distantly related parents are, the more likely it is that they will each have different mistakes in their genes. Children, inheriting one set of genes from each parent, are likely to end up with pairs of genes containing a maximum of one bad gene in each pair. The good gene in a pair tends to override the bad so that a deformity (a serious one, anyway) does not occur. Instead of having totally deformed ears, for instance, a person may have only crooked ones! (Overall, though, the human race is slowly degenerating as mistakes accumulate, generation after generation.)

However, the more closely related two people are, the more likely it is that they will have similar mistakes in their genes, since these have been inherited from the same parents. Therefore, a brother and a sister are likely to have similar mistakes in their genes. A child of a union between such siblings could inherit the same bad gene on the same gene pair from both, resulting in two bad copies of the gene and serious defects.

Adam and Eve did not have accumulated genetic mistakes. When the first two people were created, they were physically perfect. Everything God made was ?very good?, {#Ge 1:31} so their genes were perfect?no mistakes! But, when sin entered the world (because of Adam?#Ge 3:6 Ro 5:12), God cursed the world so that the perfect creation then began to degenerate, that is, suffer death and decay. {#Ro 8:22} Over thousands of years, this degeneration has produced all sorts of genetic mistakes in living things.

Cain was in the first generation of children ever born. He (as well as his brothers and sisters) would have received virtually no imperfect genes from Adam or Eve, since the effects of sin and the Curse would have been minimal to start with (it takes time for these copying errors to accumulate). In that situation, brother and sister could have married with God?s approval, without any potential to produce deformed offspring.

{Mutations have accumulated since the Fall, causing many human diseases. See Picture 137}

By the time of Moses (a few thousand years later), degenerative mistakes would have built up in the human race to such an extent that it was necessary for God to forbid brother-sister (and close relative) marriage. {#Le 18:1-20:27} {12} Also, there were plenty of people on the earth by then, and there was no reason for close relations to marry.

Didn't he bring his sons with him too, and their wives? That's how the different tribes all got started, no?

There's a lot of "missing" information in the bible - it teaches faith that the "proper" things just happened.....no explanation needed....or something....fuck if I know, ask a priest.

Cain and the Land of Nod

Some claim that the passage in #Ge 4:16-17 means that Cain went to the land of Nod and found a wife. Thus, they conclude there must have been another race of people on the earth, who were not descendants of Adam, who produced Cain?s wife.

?And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bore Enoch: and he built a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.?

From what has been stated previously, it is clear that all humans, Cain?s wife included, are descendants of Adam. However, this passage does not say that Cain went to the land of Nod and found a wife. John Calvin, commenting on these verses, states:

?From the context we may gather that Cain, before he slew his brother, had married a wife; otherwise Moses would now have related something respecting his marriage.?{13}

Cain was married before he went to the land of Nod. He didn?t find a wife there, but ?knew? (had sexual relations with) his wife. {14}

Others have argued that because Cain built a ?city? in the land of Nod, there must have been a lot of people there. However, the Hebrew word translated as ?city? need not mean what we might imagine from the connotations of ?city? today. The word meant ?a walled town,? or a protected encampment. {15} Even a hundred people would be plenty for such a ?city.? Nevertheless, there could have been many descendants of Adam on the earth by the time of Abel?s death see below.

Who Was Cain Fearful Of? {#Ge 4:14}

Some claim that there had to be lots of people on earth other than Adam and Eve?s descendants, otherwise Cain would not have been fearful of people wanting to slay him for killing Abel.

First of all, in the days before civil government was instituted to punish murderers, {#Ge 9:6} someone would want to harm Cain for killing Abel only if they were closely related to Abel! Strangers could hardly have cared. So the people Cain was afraid of could not have been another race of people.

Second, Cain and Abel were born quite some time before Abel?s death. #Ge 4:3 states:

?And in the course of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.?

Note the phrase ?in the course of time.? We know Seth was born when Adam was 130 years old, {#Ge 5:3} and Eve saw him as a ?replacement? for Abel. {#Ge 4:25} Therefore, the period from Cain?s birth to Abel?s death may have been 100 years or more?allowing plenty of time for other children of Adam and Eve to marry and have children and grandchildren. By the time Abel was killed, there could well have been a considerable number of descendants of Adam and Eve, involving several generations.



Where Did the Technology Come From?

Some claim that for Cain to go to the land of Nod and build a city he would have required a lot of technology that must have already been in that land, presumably developed by other ?races.?

However, Adam and Eve?s descendants were very intelligent people. Jubal made musical instruments such as the harp and organ, {#Ge 4:21} and Tubal-Cain worked with brass and iron. {#Ge 4:22} See Picture 138

Because of intense evolutionary indoctrination, many people today think that our generation is the most intelligent that has ever lived on this planet. But just because we have jet airplanes and computers, it does not mean we are the most intelligent. Modern technology results from the accumulation of knowledge. We stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before us.

Our brains have suffered from 6,000 years (since Adam) of the Curse. We are greatly degenerated compared with people many generations ago. We may be nowhere near as intelligent or inventive as Adam and Eve?s children. Scripture gives us a glimpse of what appears to be great inventiveness from the beginning. {16}

Conclusion

Many Christians cannot answer the question about Cain?s wife because they focus on today?s world (and the problems associated with close relations marrying), and do not understand the clear historical record God has given to us.

They try to interpret Genesis from our present situation, rather than understand the true biblical history of the world and the changes that have occurred because of sin. Because they are not building their world view on Scripture, but taking a secular way of thinking to the Bible, they are blinded to the simple answers.

Genesis is the record of the God who was there as history happened. It is the word of One who knows everything, and who is a reliable witness from the past. Thus, when we use Genesis as a basis for understanding history, we can make sense of questions that would otherwise be a mystery.




{1} A ?Hollywood? version of the famous Scopes trial. The play claimed not to be based on the real Scopes, but it was clearly intended to be seen as a representation of the Scopes Trial. See Menton below.

K. Ham, ?The Wrong Way Round!? Creation, 1996, 18(3):38-41.

D. Menton, ?Inherit the Wind: An Historical Analysis,? Creation, 1997, 19(1):35-8. Menton documents the gross distortion and anti-Christian bigotry of the play.

{2} Contact, released July 11, 1997, a Robert Zemeckis Film, Warner Bros., based upon Contact by Carl Sagan (New York: Pocket Books, 1985).

{3} American Civil Liberties Union?an organization at the forefront of attempts to remove all vestiges of Christianity from public life in the United States.

{4} The World?s Most Famous Court Trial, The Tennessee Evolution Case (a word-for-word report), Bryan College, 1990 (reprinted original edition), p. 302.

{5} Sagan, Contact.

{6} Ibid. p. 19-20.

{7} Apologetics?from the Greek word apologia, meaning to give a defense. Christian apologetics provides a defence of our faith in Jesus Christ and our hope in Him for our salvation. {#1Pe 3:15} This requires a thorough knowledge of Scripture, including the doctrines of creation, original sin, curse, flood, virginal conception, life, and ministry of Jesus of Nazareth, the Cross, Crucifixion, Resurrection, Ascension, the Second Coming, and the New Heaven and New Earth. It involves explaining these doctrines logically, so as to justify one?s faith and hope in Jesus Christ. Finally, one needs to be able to defend these doctrines, and the Bible in general, from attacks by unbelievers.

{8} In this passage, the Greek word for ?man? is in the singular (?a man?).

{9} Eve, in a sense, was a ?descendant? of Adam in that she was made from his flesh and thus had a biological connection to him. {#Ge 2:21-23}

{10} The Hebrew literally means ?she was to be the mother of all living.?

{11} William Whiston, translator, The Complete Works of Josephus (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 1981), p. 27.

{12} Some have claimed this means God changed His mind by changing the laws. But God did not change His mind?because of the changes that sin brought, and because God never changes, He introduced new laws for our sake. Also, there is in the Bible a progressive revealing of the Messianic program which was in the mind of God from eternity. See R. Grigg, ?Unfolding the Plan,? Creation, 1998, 20(3):22-24.

{13} John Calvin, Commentaries on the First Book of Moses Called Genesis (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker House, 1979), Vol. 1, p. 215.

{14} Even if Calvin?s suggestion concerning this matter is not correct, there was still plenty of time for numerous descendants of Adam and Eve to move out and settle areas such as the land of Nod.

{15} Strong?s Concordance:? city, town, a place guarded by waking or a watch in the widest sense (even of a mere encampment or post).?

{16} See D. Chittick, The Puzzle of Ancient Man (Newberg, OR: Creation Compass, 1997).

as long as your not a young boy he wont molest you

Fuck if I know. I never bought into any of that shit.

Take a few minutes and go read the book of Matthew.

People follow this shit to their deaths but anytime that somebody in this day and age tries to pull the same shit...We burn down their compounds, call them wackos, or allow them to lead the Mormon church.

yea, you gotta take an intro to bible course in college...


actually...we learned this in CCD

Were all incest!

lol.... fuck faith, I want some hard fuckin' data here.

....care to take another crack at that?

religion is a pyramid scam man its all about money

Sorry...I think he meant Canadians only.

Ask for wisdom and thou shall receive....or something...so start praying for some "hard fuckin' data"

And how many of those canadian girls did you love again?

Now you got me interested:

Genesis, Ch. 4
"1 And the man knew Eve his woman; and she conceived, and gave birth to Cain (acquired), and said, I have received a man by Jehovah.
2 And she again gave birth, to his brother Abel (emptiness). And became Abel a shepherd of flocks, and Cain became a worker of the soil.
3 And was it in the process of time that brought Cain from the fruit of the soil an offering to Jehovah"

...

"15 And the Lord said, If anyone kills Cain they will be punished sevenfold. And Cain was marked so that anyone finding him would know not to kill him.

16 And Cain moved from near Eden, to the east, to the land of Nod.

17 And Cain had a sexual union with his wife who gave birth to a son, Enoch, and Cain was building a city so he called it Enoch also.

18 And to Enoch was born Irad; and to Irad a son Mehujael; and to Mehujael a son Methusael; and to Methusael a son Lamech."

...

"25 And Adam had a sexual union with his wife again; and she had a son, and called his name Seth; for God, said she, has given me another son instead of Abel, who Cain killed.
26 And to Seth there was born a son; and he called his name Enos; "
...

Nope, there is no mention of wives from anywhere else. They are all direct descendents. Cain was sent to Nod, where he married, though, which was "east of Eden."

The origional texts actually mention 2 different sides of god, one male and one female. The origional hebrew word "elohim" actually roughly means "those who came from the sky". Christianity speaks of the trinity being the father, the son and the holy spirit. Origionally the holy spirit was said to be the female side of the elohim. Male superiority in christianity has changed all this of course.

It does make sense, however. If we were created in gods image, and god is a male, who's image were females created in?

As far as Cain and Ables wives, most religions actually speak of "angels" as superior giant beings who walked the earth and helped humanity get a head start. They were have said to have bred with humans quite often. In most religions these giants are considered mortals, but just a more advanced being.

Many of them. But since I'm not from Canada...It's not incest for me.

You should thank me for creating branches on the family trees of your fellow Canadians.

Not a bible thumper, however, I have done some reading, and have come up with the following:

The Bible is broken up into the Old and New Testaments.

The Old is before Jesus was born, the New after.

Now, let's stop and think about the time periods, and science for that era. Darwin had not even been born yet, much less dinosauer bones discovered.

If you went around telling stories about man evolving from apes, you would have been escorted to the rock pile on the outskirts of town, and they would have stoned you (and not in the good way).

Essentially, parables (A simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson) were just that, parables. They were trying to explain things in a way people of the era could comprehend, and not be executed in the process.

Anyone that takes stories like Adam and Eve, Jonah and the whale, Noah and the Ark, etc. literally probably believe in Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and the Great Pumpkin.

this is a huge crock of non-answer shit.

what the fuck is that supposed to mean? It's basically telling me, "There is no fucking answer, so you just gotta close your eyes, shut your mouth, stop asking questions, and take our word for it."

sorry, but that don't work for me. And it baffles me as to how anyone can buy into this crap. Sure, sure, I know... everyone needs something to believe in. I believe I'll get me another cup of coffee.

I wonder how many times the word "and" is used in the bible.

Not only do I thank you, I tried to invite you to my coast to do the same to the girls here

Yes, you'd have to read the book of Enoch for more answers. It was thought to be lost for a very long time but in recent centuries most of it was recovered. It WAS, however, part of the origional texts that were considered "the bible"

if you look at pictures you will see that they didn't

Pictures? I want a pop-up version of the bible

Fuck you.

The bible is horseshit but how dare you compare it to real life things?

Somebody could make a killing by making a real doll of Eve.

Bible pushers really crack me up. Ask them who wiped out man kind and animals because he was unhappy with his creation. Religion is for the weak minded who need something to fall on in bad times.

People say if you are a sinner you will go to hell when you die. What you mean this aint hell i read about on the news and see on tv everyday? When you die your dead your ether going 6 feet down in a casket . Tell me one person that came back and say " hey guys they were right there is a heaven and a hell" Religon is the oldest business in the book and thats what it is a business..

"Us" would probably refer to the Trinity, and no, I am not about to try and explain that one to you.

Better yet....Mary...When she was still a virgin.

Of course they did. At least, they did in the Italian Ren.

Aaron, are you saying you "begot" some Canadian offspring? Or that you only "lay with" Canadian women?

Did you read my posts...from beginning to end? I am not trying to convince you of anything...but the answers that are provided in the entireity of the posts...do seem to be somewhat plausible.

Far too many translations and handwritten copies have resulted in garbled texts, I am pretty certain. "us/they/we" has different translations in different languages, and slightly different connotations.

I'm actually gonna stick with my "I'm still a virgin" story on this one.

I'm saving myself for a certain Canadian woman.