Beheadings vs. Humiliation... Which is Worse?

THE Pentagon has revealed a US soldier and a CIA interrogator killed prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan, and that at least 20 other deaths or assaults are under investigation in probes that have now been widened to include Guantanamo Bay, where two Australians are held.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_...%255E2,00.html

100 liberated Iraqis!

lost cause...

Because you are missing the point:

I am tired of listening to pussies crying on this board about pictures of Iraqi's being humiliated, and then not saying SHIT about a CIVILIAN screaming as his fucking head is slowly sawed off.

IT IS ALL BAD!!! SO STFU AND GO AWAY!!!

uh, did you happen to read the 20 threads on the subject today?

Ok. I see your first post. So there's no point here except your limited field of vision.

- Your soldiers embarassed a few iraqi POWs (warcrime)
- See what they do to your CIVILIAN contractors? They, do you know who THEY are? They are not iraqi soldiers. They are Terrorists, the same bunch that flew into the twin towers. Osama's friends. They don't give a fuck about the rules of war, they're terrorists. YOU ARE NOT TERRORISTS, are you? Holier than thou attitude doesn't work so well if you don't follow the rules
-Do I understand why prisoners are embarassed? Lol. To gather information? Give me a fucking break. The guards were NOT trained to use interrogation techniques. They humiliated them our of spite and malice, simple as that. Why would they have taken pictures if they had a legit reason to break the pows mental guard?


Now... tell me how I missed the point, and you haven't?

my officemate made me watch the video...as i wait until what's next thing to happen, i thought they were just trippin that it was a video JOKE...suddenly, i saw the knife...from there i knew what's next, then i turned my back and did not even try to watch the beheading...i just heard their shouts...'coz i cant take watching such brutal stuffs like those! they are evils....

god smiles when children die.

been that way since Abraham.

god eats the souls of children.

fuck god, and fuck those who follow him.

i never forget how christians burned pagans, so decapitations are nothingt for these war mongers.

i am against your war, I am against most of you who support it.

you want my opinion, here it is.

i hope you die for yours.

this is a religious war, and I am against all of you.

see you in hell fuckers.

die slow.

Being a liberal pussy is just as bad as being a conservative Limbaugh Ditto Head, IMHO. I'm finished responding to pussies.

i invite and wait for christian decapitations in the US, you want it, let it come.

i cant wait.

i want to see christians burn like they did us pagans.

payback bitch

I know it's hard to admit you're wrong and are 100% biased and filled with anger. But it wouldn't hurt to read the replies and think about them.

retard

the teleological suspension of the ethical

lets invite these religious times.

i dare all christians.

i cant wait to pluck a few of you off.

youn want decapitations?

i guarantee we will cut the heads off of god worshipping folk from California to Atlanta.

lets do this.

civil religous war, nothing would be better.

i got a box full of shells and a shotgun ready to pluck you bitches off, i sleep a block from a chuch, ready to torch it and shoot the congragation?

lets do this shit.

i need to stop postion in these threads.

im ready for the christian war. you guys yapping about Bush Vs Kerry shit.

ill be styocking up opn ammo, you guys go vote.

ive gutted deers worth more than some humans.

i am emailing you a url to a directory with mp3s, check it if you can.

cheers bro.

I have a 4 year old son. I see my son in that man. He's sitting there talking about his mom, dad, sister, brother... he was over there looking for work, not finding it, and wanting to return home.

He's sitting there calmly, hoping that if he cooperates he'll be able to go home and see the people he loves.

Instead, he has a bunch of guys hold him down and screams in agony as they slowly cut off his head.

As a father, seeing his son in that video, how would you react?

Those of you that live at home with your mommies and don't have any children of your own can sit there and continue with your liberal psycho-babble about how we shouldn't be there, we're just as bad, blah blah fucking blah.

Put yourself in the place of his parents and siblings. No, seriously, just fucking do it for a second. Put your brother's face in that video. Pretend it's him. See how you feel.

It was al-qaeda who did that to the american...not iraqi's.

it will hard to tell this to americans.

"all ******s look alike"

So you feel pity. Do you by any chance think that the abused iraqis had fathers or sons? Maybe the ones killed by precision bombing? Your point is only from USA's and your personal point of view. So you're trying to force YOUR view as the fact. Everyone perceives the situation differently, but it doesn't change facts. Your posts are based on emotion.

Did you read my reply to your comment :
"No, YOU failed to see the point. Look at the original post that started this all. Read it over and fucking over again. Then try to think about what I was asking."

If you did, do you see my point?
You are angry at the wrong people and try to justify deeds that shouldn't be justified. I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't think the decapitation was unnecessary and extremely cruel. But it's not about that.

you know me,. im still screaming PAGAN REVOLUTION.

i cant voice my opinon too loud here.

nonetheless, cheers.

Okay, I've put myself in his father's place and I would feel exactly the same way he does:

"Michael Berg bitterly told KYW reporter Robin Reger that he blames the U.S. government for allowing Nick to be jailed so long while "never [being] charged with anything, never given any due process."

"He would have missed the whole escalation if they would have let him go" earlier, the dad said.

"I think that they caused his death indirectly by detaining him without any rights," Berg said. "Even after detaining him, they had an obligation to get him safely out of the country."
--------------------------------------
It's a Muslim country, nothing is going to change that. We can't force "democracy" on them. We don't belong there. In fact, we've made things worse there, at least Saddam Hussein was able to control the religious factions; with us in charge, it's complete chaos and will remain so.

Yes, I agree with his dad on that. I'm more angry at those that had him jailed. Why didn't they escort him to a safe return home?



But once again... I don't want to listen to anymore pussies complaining about "humiliation".

If this was my son I'd be so insane with grief and anger that I wouldn't care about living anymore. I'd go absolutely crazy.

at least we both agree that bush is a dumbass.....

BTW: The news just said he was being held by Iraqi's and then released, not by US Soldiers.

Even imagining that it's my son is bringing tears to my eyes. I'm going to bed now and hoping I can sleep. Tomorrow I'm going to hold my son tightly and do nothing else but play with him and give him all my attention.


Good Night.

Omg. You still don't get it.
Humiliation was uncalled for, it was a warcrime and it was committed to a bunch of prisoners of war. You, The USA, is a civilized country and is bound by the geneva convention. They broke the law. You do know that a prisoner of war is NOT a criminal. It's a person that didn't get killed defending their home country from uninvited guests.

Decapitation was not made by the people you have as prisoners of war. It was made by al-queada. See? Al-queada=terrorists, they do NOT follow the rules. They are not the iraqi people.

So, you approve a warcrime because your enemy are bad people too? No matter if it's actually a different enemy that committed the decapitation.

You also would approve if a police officer beats up a black suspect on the streets, because black people are evil?
I'm not saying they are, but making a point.

Do you understand the words coming out of my fingers?

You forgot "let's turn the place into a glass parking lot..."

Now let's have a reality check. We have a president who justified the invasion of one country, saying Al Qa'ida were hidden out there. He sold a second invasion, telling us about WMDs. So here we are in an election year, and you want us to believe that - even if it were a lie - if he thought he could get away with it, Bush wouldn't be telling us how the humiliation of these prisons was in fact a sophisticated interrogation technique.

Bush has said no such thing and the Army has been talking about a breakdown in command and discipline. But apparently you know better...

Then maybe you can explain what Al Qa'ida is doing in Iraq? I seem to recall that although it was like getting blood out of a stone (and although the current Republican TV adverts still sell the invasion of Iraq as "the front line in the war on terror"), the White House did finally admit there were no connections between Iraq and Al Qa'ida.

Presumably then, if the executioners really were members of Al Qa'ida, they infiltrated the country after the US invasion? That's a step forward isn't it.

We only shoot people, drop cluster bombs on them, and poison those that aren't killed outright by depleted Uranium tank shells. When we hahahahahahaha them, we only use civilized devices such as the electric chair and lethal injection. No comparison with the way these damn savages kill people huh? We had better break off our relationship with Saudi Arabia immediately, before their next public execution.

"But he was a CIVILIAN!!!". True, but so were many of the 9,000+ Iraqis who have been killed during the past year. Sorry: I forgot their lives don't matter. We don't even keep a count of them do we?

The execution was disgusting. But he would have been just as dead and his death just as much of a tragedy, if he had been hit by a stray bullet or shell fragment. We shouldn't be there and as long as we are there, people on both sides will keep dying. All their deaths are disgusting.

Very good points. I'm tired and depressed. Like I said, I'm going to bed so I can spend all day tomorrow hugging my son and giving him my undivided attention. Good night (again).

Because you scream it's the "liberals" who released the abuse pics and stirred up the hate that led to this man's beheading.

Yeah, we so rock.

From www.torontostar.com

May 12, 2004. 01:00 AM

Awful images from 7th circle of Hell
Red Cross reports abuse widespread

Says torture part of deliberate tactic


OAKLAND ROSS


Hell, in Iraq, erupts at night.

First, they break down your door and clamber inside ? large, Yankee soldiers in combat gear with automatic rifles.

They bark orders, wrest men, women and children from their beds, assemble everyone in a single room. They start smashing your possessions in front of you ? cabinets, chairs, tables, anything.

They shout insults, brandish their weapons, kick and punch their captives, striking out with their rifle barrels at anyone who resists.

They handcuff those they want ? typically, anyone who happens to be male, no matter how old or infirm.

They hustle their prisoners, generally clad only in pyjamas or underwear, out into the dark Iraqi night. Essential items, such as eyeglasses or medicine, are invariably left behind.

They don't say where they are taking you, they don't say why, and they probably never will.

You are terrified, practically naked, already in acute physical distress, and almost certainly innocent of wrongdoing, but that doesn't seem to matter a whit.

This ? as depicted in a report by the International Committee of the Red Cross ? is merely the first circle of hell in an Iraq under occupation by U.S.-led military forces, and your torment has barely begun.

It gets far, far worse.

Recently, the entire world has recoiled in horror and outrage at photographs illustrating the sometimes savage treatment inflicted upon Iraqi political detainees by U.S. military prison guards at the Abu Ghraib detention facility in Baghdad.

As disturbing as those images are ? and there other, even more alarming images that have yet to reach the public ? they provide only a small and sickening hint of what has been taking place in Iraq since a U.S.-led military coalition invaded the country more than a year ago.

As detailed in a powerful, 24-page report by the Red Cross ? completed in February and leaked to the public in the last few days ? the terrorizing of Iraqi detainees, their gross physical abuse and psychological humiliation, are far from being rare or exceptional acts carried out by rogue prison guards.

Instead, says the Red Cross, they are part of a deliberate, systematic strategy applied in the initial stages of a prisoner's detention, aimed at breaking him down mentally and physically, so he will be more likely to co-operate during interrogation.

The Red Cross says the abuses are widespread, they appear to have the approval of those in charge of the coalition forces, and in some cases they are "tantamount to torture." They have caused death, permanent injury and unspeakable suffering.

The Red Cross report provides many lurid examples of the kinds of abuse regularly meted out during a nine-month period last year by military guards at a variety of detention facilities in Iraq and parallels findings by U.S. Maj.-Gen. Antonio Taguba, who in a separate report has hahahahahahahahaed a series of grotesque and probably criminal offences carried out against detainees at the Abu Ghraib detention facility in Baghdad.

Several photographs of the horrors described by Taguba have already found their way into public view, but others have not. In time, they likely will. Yesterday, the United Nations children's agency issued a statement in Geneva, saying it was "profoundly disturbed" by reports children may have been among those mistreated. According to one report, still unreleased videotapes of abuses against detainees include images of Iraqi guards raping young boys at the Abu Ghraib prison.

Based on Taguba's findings and on those of the Red Cross, here are some of the disturbing snapshots that we have yet to see ? pictures of hell in Iraq.

One naked detainee is forced to stand on a box with a sandbag on his head and with wires attached to his fingers, toes and penis to simulate electrical-shock torture.

A male military guard rapes a female detainee.

A guard smashes a chemical light and pours the phosphoric liquid on several detainees.

A detainee is beaten with a broom handle and a chair.

A detainee has his head slammed against a wall and his guard promptly stitches up the wound himself.

A hooded detainee is made to lie down on what is likely a running truck engine, burning him so badly he requires three months in hospital, extensive skin grafts over much of his body and the amputation of a finger.

A detainee is force-fed a baseball bat, which is then secured in place with a scarf.

Male detainees are forced to parade naked in public, with women's underwear wrapped over their heads.

Detainees are made to sit for hours in direct sunlight in 50-degree temperatures or forced to remain in awkward positions for hours at a time.

Detainees are kept naked in solitary confinement without light for days at a time.

A 28-year-old detainee, married with two children, is beaten to death by his captors, and his death is officially attributed to cardio-respiratory arrest-asphyxia, cause unknown.

The litany of horrors goes on and on, and the abuses continued unabated last year even though the Red Cross regularly expressed its concerns to coalition forces, making it difficult to reach any conclusion except the Red Cross' own ? that this harsh and inhuman treatment has been encouraged or at least tolerated at senior levels of the occupying armies.

Hard as it may be to believe, the detainees captured by coalition forces are the lucky ones.

Those picked up by the Iraqi police ? a force that operates under U.S. authority and control ? often proceed at once to the innermost circle of hell.

The Red Cross report hahahahahahahahas horrific practices carried out by the Iraqi police against detainees in their charge, often with the purpose of extorting money from them, sometimes prior to turning them over to coalition forces for further interrogation.

Abuses cited by the Red Cross include whipping prisoners with cables, kicking them in the testicles, hanging them from iron bars by their handcuffs, burning them with cigarettes, pretending to shoot them with unloaded pistols, threatening to rape their wives, and pouring water on their legs while giving them electrical shocks with live, stripped wires.

Finally, it should be noted that the vast majority of the political detainees in Iraq are likely innocent of any wrongdoing.

According to the Red Cross report, coalition military intelligence officers themselves estimate that somewhere between 70 and 90 per cent of those whom they detain have been picked up by mistake and are guilty of nothing at all, except the crime of living in an occupied country and stumbling into a foreign-administered hell.

You're having dinner with your family in your very modest home when out of nowhere a cruise missile from a U.S. ship crashes into your home and kills your 4 year old daughter.

That has been happening in one form or another since the war started. Why aren't you screaming about the inhumanity of that?

Your hypocrisy in this thread is staggering.

It's obvious that the only reason you give a shit about the guy who got decapitated is because he's an American.

I haven't seen you here screaming on a three page thread about the thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, many of them children, murdered by your own fucking government. Why? Because you obviously couldn't give a shit.

Honestly, your hypocrisy is just as appalling to me as the beheading itself.

Sometimes I really do understand why they want to kill us all.

Beheading or humiliation?
I don't think both is good to everyone.
We all lose, one way or another.

Obviously the beheading is worse. Im not saying the humiliation is a good thing, but they are still alive and can have a future with friends and family once they eventually get out of prison. The beheading ends any chance of that. It doesnt matter what nationality they are or what their excuses are.

Come on, please be politically correct for the Michael Moore sheep. Lets respect them and call Al Qada 'freedom fighters'.

Thanks