Ex-military commandos armed with M4 rifles are fighting insurgents in Iraq

do not question the Bush

They're being hired because they don't have to worry about law or international regulation or any bullshit that our US military has to worry about. They can operate in plain clothing much like special forces do, using the weapons best for the enviroment and they just aren't subject to any regulation since it's the US that's ruling the country.

That is awesome.

seeing as security companies like 'blackwater' make a point of hiring ex-special forces / s.w.a.t members and they are guarding a lot of the convoys I should imagine that is what they're talking about?

I don't know, but I just did a search on m4 rifles and I found this page:

http://www.hk94.com/m4a1.html

Nice info about the gun, but what I really enjoyed was the amateur pages ad that points to a freeezinebucks link code on a gun site.

i heard they have an incentive scheme running

$100 for every raghead

$900 for a leader

They're mercenaries paid like $1000/day to do the job. Quite an insult to people who are in the armed forces.

The so called 4 "civilians" who where burned in Iraq where ex-military commandos working for the same company.

What it really is? A bunch of people in the Bush admin who came up with this idea in order to steal more of your tax money. Don't be surprised if those "security" companies have connections with a few important people in the government. Why else would you think the government would outsource military jobs? It's all about the $.

I'll guess....

Because if they die it doesn't count US sides 'official' deathtoll?

Ah.. that makes more sense

muwahahaha

Tin Foil Hat Alert!! Aliens Stealing your brainwaves! Tin Foil Hat Alert!!

its a good idea, they can kill people without cnn asking them 50 questions

death to all !!!

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...s_040418191603

And yes he is also partially right. Most of these companies are linked to conservatives and the current administration. They go in and do the dirty work virtually anonymous killing and doing as they please since there is no law right now. They are Americans sub contracted by the US government so our military won't bother with them.

They can also and sometimes do get involved in illegal business practices and extortion or whatever while in county and they are depleting our special forces.

Sit back and watch it's the way of the future a lot of the military will end up privatized by defense contractors as private corporations.

"It is more a coalition of the billing than of the willing," Singer said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...q_us_companies

New form of "LIBERATION"....

Did none of these firms exist before the Iraq war? because most of these security firms have been hired by private individuals, ambassadors, corporate america etc, to escort and protect for years? Depleting the special forces? have you any evidence of that? A lot of the people shown are in their late 30's or 40's which is past the prime for most of the special forces world wide?

Even heard the US wants to " outsource" them ...

Yes they existed before the Iraq war but this is the biggest such use of them so far. They are growing and most special forces soldiers are in their early 30's. And yes it's depleting the special forces and will be because those soldiers see they can have the same job with more freedom and more money by leaving the military once their time is up so they don't re-enlist.

laugh all you want. It's like that in all countries, but hey the US might be an exception. They just happen to like paying mercenaries $1000/day to secure convoys and stuff instead of paying the military to do it

About 15,000 personnel from private military firms (PMFs) were operating in Iraq, making them more numerous that even the biggest US ally, Britain, estimated Peter Singer, author of "Corporate Warriors: The Rise of the Privatized Military Industry."


At least 30 to 50 had been killed in action, he wrote in a report for the Internet news magazine Salon.com.

Scott Heleveston who was on the show "Combat Missions" did not leave to enter private security, he ran his own fitness firm for a long time, he was 38, one of the others killed was 48 a former Army Ranger, it's money that brings them back to the table, just like everything else?

Yes of course it's old retired special forces guys as well, but the younger guys are just now begining to leave as the biz is growing and taking off. This use in Iraq is not the first, but it's the biggest so far and only the begining.

For Hire

haha, probably... the states has always been into hiring militia to do their dirty work. That's where bin laden came from in the first place... trained, funded, and supplied with weapons by the CIA

army is not the same

and because some 22 years old boys and girls without experience can not fight guerilla war, i guess they need some experienced doods

Better equipped, no rules of engagement, hell of a lot more pay.

I bet the soldiers really like those guys

Well the M4 is a common special forces weapon.

how much do you want to bet they do infact work for the army but since the army can't admit these people exist we got this nice story

Yeah just like the A-Team, those crazy military people are always suppressing the truth, that and whitey keeping down Bosco Baracus!

'can't admit these people exist?' wtf.

well obviously people know the units exist however the army does not officialy acknowledge they exist. i.e. DELTA

like navy seals weren't advertised, but so many movies about all this crap why ignore it.

like canada has JTF2 which is on the DND website and no one suppost to know about yet they end up in the news over in iraq and afgan and theres a base you can drive up to

The U.S military acknowledges the existence of S.F.O.D/Delta Force?

haha, you JUST found this out...these were the ones that were BBQ on the bridge, . they're there becasue they can do what the soliders cannot do


lol

Yeah but in this case, it's a group of mercenaries working for a security company employed by the government. They have nothing to do with the military. They're just mercenaries getting paid to do a job. It's much different than JTF2 and all the others.

all i'm saying is i wouldn't be surpised if theres a few lies being throwing around here. they could be black ops units and they can tell us whatever the hell they want. either way its a smart method to aid in winning the war.

sure its dirty, both sides to dirty things to give themselves the advantage, its when goes too far that it is a problem

http://blackwatersecurity.com/

There are a ton of reasons for this:

You get to keep them off the army books meaning it looks like you have less troops there than you reall do. Plus you get to keep you body count lower when they die.

They get to do whatever the fuck they want to do, no rules of engagement.

Better Pay

Adminstration makes money and gets votes

Well, be fair, liberals don't generally go into the private army biz. I'm sure if Ben & Jerry had a subsidiary that did security work, they'd have been allowed to bid for the contract.

How much do you want to know?

Ask me for the time, I will more likely than not tell you how to build a clock.

First off for everyone on the board, it may sounds like one of the reasons these companies get hired is because they lack a set ROE (rules of engagement) for the most part its pretty close to what the military has, and oftentimes stricter.

I have two cohorts on the ground are working this racket, and it has become a racket in recent months as the coalition didn't come together like Bush wished it would, so now you have private military contractors making up the second largest military presence in Iraq.

One of the main ROE's is that you can't perform offensive operations, you have to wait until they are shooting at you. To mimize the risks of your group getting shot at, you are driving down the highway at 90-100 mph in the left lane so the insurgents can't aim at you from the passenger seat.

Mind you the Iraqi CPA has made it really easy for the insurgents to find gunsligers, if you are working a CPA contract, you have to buy American, which means Chevy or GMC Suburbans, or as they are better known, bullet magents.

The reason they mentioned the M-4 rifle, is because that is pretty much the only firepower you are allowed to pack, that and light machine guns, (M-249 minimi's) and pretty much everything smaller down the line. There is no use of heavy machine guns, no .50 Brownings allowed, no grenades, no RPG's. The way it is now, you are getting paid to get shot at.

Another thing, the American security companies love to stick out, check out the photo below.



The running joke with the British and South African details is how the Americans are dressed, Oakley sunglasses, baseball caps, polo shirts, cowboy-style drop holsters, and the load bearing vests. Now don't get me wrong, I like good tactical gear as much as the next guy, but with the Americans, the slang term for them in the hotels is 'Gear Gucci' with the ceramic plates, carrying as much ammo as possible in either 'desert tan' or 'coyote'. What I am getting at is the American details stand out like sore thumbs.

The brits I know go native, they buy older SUV's and bang on them with other cars to add scrapes and dings, they hide their weapons until its time to get jiggy with Abdul, if you didn't know better, you would swear these were just a bunch of dudes from Northern Iraq, and not a group of former SBS commandos.

If you have other questions, drop me an ICQ, 36116828 and I will try to answer them, I have been developing a business plan in a related field, and PMC's have been part of that research.

Anyone else hear read SOF?



http://www.sofmag.com/home.do

Why not?

cool stuff. what kind of salary would an ex-Special Forces guy get to work for one of the PMFs? Or are they paid for only the days they are on assignment?

The press reported the ex-Navy Seal / combat missions star Scott Helveston was going to be paid $60,000 for three months work, not sure if that's the average.

Average is around $1000-2500 a day, its anyones guess what the daily rake is for the companies after expenses.

Don't let the media paint a picture of how rosey these contractors have it. Working security in Iraq now is just like the Internet bubble days, at current levels the market there bound to burst in another 12-18 months.

Another problem is finding the quality manpower to fill these contracts, there's a limited vetting, and its getting really hard to find people to vouch that the guy with resume in hand is REALLY former 304th Pararescue or the Scots Guard, some shops are hiring these people with potentially disasterous results.

The ArmorGroup (stock symbol AH for those that want to invest) just suspended a contractor after it was learned that he was convicted of working with Irish terrorists.

There have been reports of a number of bad apples with the South African security contractors, including one who admitted to firebombing more than 60 homes for the apartheid regime.

Something else that is really a concern is the number of active-duty special operations personel that want out of the military mainly because of poor pay over the private contractors, and what lengths the world's militaries will have to go to compete with retaining them. A SAS commander can refuse a soldiers request two times, but must let them go on the third request.