Govt Seizes ISP's Servers To See What Customers Are Looking At CP Online

50 states

Call who you want. I have no problem with my government.
If they need my computer files to track down someone. Go for it.
If I have to take of my pants at the airport. I will.
If I have to give up my home for no other reason that the
saftey of my fellow man. I will.

Its funny that you are the same people that say freedom isnt free.
Yet you are not willing to give a thing, but expect to have all the
freedom you can shake a stick at.

you are the most ignorant person to grace this board in a long while.

congrats.

what a fucking idiot.

Thanks.

I have yet to see an intelligent post from you either.

What makes me an idiot?

Tell me.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/20...i-guilty_x.htm

http://www.va.gov/oig/51/press99/SENTER2-pr.htm

http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20040329pornp6.asp
They failed to include how they go fishing for stuff like this? I wonder why?




I got bored looking, but im sure there are better examples.

I must reiterate I'm not defending these people.... I'm attacking law enforcments methods. Theres a big difference.

your own words say more than I could ever post.

"Call who you want. I have no problem with my government.
If they need my computer files to track down someone. Go for it.
If I have to take of my pants at the airport. I will.
If I have to give up my home for no other reason that the
saftey of my fellow man. I will.

Its funny that you are the same people that say freedom isnt free.
Yet you are not willing to give a thing, but expect to have all the
freedom you can shake a stick at."

funny thing is you are such an IDIOT, you dont even see it.

Those are cases where the pleaded guilty.

Im looking for cases where they found one image a CP in someones internet cache and arrested them.

Im someone who is willing to exchange those things for our saftey. I have my freedom and im grateful for it.

Its peple like you fletch that think they should have it handed
to them on a silver fucking platter.

Um... there are SO many fucking scum sites that could put 12 CP images in your cache with one page view. You can't plead not guilty when the files are there smart ass.

Your so blind you deserve what is coming... some of us don't and will fight it.

If it crosses the line I will fight it.
IF you think im one to lay down and take it in the ass your wrong.
But taking down these people that give access to KNOWN CP images and movies does not cross the line in my book.

learn how to spell then address me.

between peple and piksal, i figure im talking to a 19 year old who still lives with his parents.

as i said, come back when youre old enough to drink kid.

i dont argue with idiots who wish for police states and who voluntarily hand over their computers.

put me on ignore.

You obvioulsy do not understand the article then. They are talking about software that pulled messages off of public message board systems. Once they get thier foot in the door (CP is the easiest way for them to do it) they will start policing usenet and other public messaging systems.

Who the fuck said I wished for a police state?

As I expected, you havent even followed this thread let alone are intelligent enough to participate in it.

He knew about it.
Whos to say the rest of the staff didnt?

So they should just leave it be and let CP circulate the net?

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=271016

Um... Dude. The world is not black and white.

Not stealing a comanies servers and browsing thier subscriber lists = letting CP circualte freely???

Here is a much more indepth article on the case.


http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/act...rnography.html

It has been a four month Action News investigation that has lead to a police investigation, allegations that sexually explicit images of children were featured on a web site based in Bucks County.

The Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force is now considering criminal charges. They have now shut down the website, and only Action News was there when police raided the place.

The police set off the burglar alarm when they went into the offices of VOICENET in Ivyland. Undercover officers with uniformed backup were joined by the District Attorneys of Bucks and Delaware Counties. The raiders, were looking for child pornography, and investigators say they found it.

VOICENET is one of the ten largest internet providers in the Delaware Valley. It has thousands of individual customers and serves large educational institutions, government agencies and charitable organizations. Investigators say VOICENET, created a subsidiary called OTI productions, which launched a web site called QUIKVUE last September. They say QUIKVUE collected thousands of kiddie porn photos from internet newsgroups. Detectives shut down the site, and carried out boxes of evidence, including QUIKVUE'S main server. VOICENET was allowed to continue operating. Carmen DiCamillo is VOICENET's president.

"I understand the police were here raiding the place a while back."
"Do you have ANY idea what that was about?"
"I really can't comment on that."
Ron Brandt is the company's operations manager. He took off when he saw Action news in the parking lot. Ken Giannantonio is Voicenet's legal counsel.
"Can you tell us why the police were here a couple of weeks ago?"
"I have no idea, I wasn't here."
"Did you have child porn on your web site?"
Investigators say it appears QUIKVUE was set up to find and post pornographic images, including sexually explicit pictures of children. The web site itself made it clear that paying customers had quick and easy access to images that were otherwise difficult to find.
Off camera DiCamillio told us QUIKVUE merely hosted news groups and VOICENET had no control over what their members posted. Voicenet's lawyer says company officials also had no way of knowing what sort of images were being posted on Quikvue. And he says there were no categories listed that could lead subscribers to kiddy porn.

Marc Neff/VOICENET'S ATTORNEY:

"Quikvue was set up to be a news viewer. That was its purpose. And, specifically, not to allow those types of categories."
But here's what our Action News investigation and the police found, a long list of categories on QUIKVUE with labels like "erotica preteen", erotica child" and even "erotica babies."
Subscribers could simply click on a category and find thumbnail examples of what's available. Click on a picture and up pops a collection of full sized photos. Since the police shut down QUIKVUE, we've learned that many of the same child erotica categories have been shifted to another VOICENET web site. Investigators say there's no way VOICENET's executives could have been unaware of the child porn postings. We had a Drexel University computer expert look at the site, and he agrees.

W. Carl Drott/Drexel University:

"The list of groups is largely pretty unchanging, so you wouldn't have to check on it on a day by day basis."
"You would know it's there?"
"You would know it's there."
In fact, an internal memo informed DiCamillo, Giannantonio and Brandt that QUIKVUE was up and running and told them how to log on to check it out. Investigators are also going after customers who accessed the child porn after using their credit cards to log on.
Dianne Gibbons/BUCKS COUNTY DA:

"Child pornography is illegal to possess and anyone who goes onto their computer to access child pornography, you are in possession and that is a crime and you will be prosecuted."
It is a far reaching investigation that may lead to charges against hundreds of people who've accessed the site. The investigation has also uncovered another disturbing trend that could turn your child unwittingly into some else's object of desire. In our next report, (Friday at 11pm) we'll have more on that and how to protect your children from Internet exploitation.

thats really fucked

am i right in assuming that this company only offered usnet/nntp feeds? if so it is shocking and frightening that there equipment has been siezed like this... there are a multitude of usenet providers, all of which are of course mirroring the 'alt' hierarchy. is *every* nntp provider within the USA going to be harrassed and shut down? if so, whoever thinks this would stiffle access to such groups does not understand the nature of the usenet (piksaldesign?)... this company isn't the source of the files in question, and the files do not reside only on their servers like a traditional website at all, they are mirrored all over the world in real-time.

i can name over 10 huge nntp providers off the top of my head that do not restrict access to any groups whatsoever that have been in business for many years within the USA..

This is the core legal issue in this case that the government will now surely test in the courts to create case law.

Does the government have the legal right to prosecute a company which is merely providing and facilitating access to CP and other illegal content "indirectly" as a byproduct of their providing access broadly to the entire Internet?

Its a touchy issue, but follows in line with lawsuits like where gun manufacturers are brought into a lawsuit for manufacturing a gun that someone used in a crime to kill someone. Is a gun mfr. liable for creating the instrument that actually killed the person?

Where does the culpability begin and the immunity end?

This is the question that will be more sharply defined by this new approach of seizing a company's entire facility.

if this actually flies in court, any ISP in the country could be shut down, as they are facilitating the access to such media just as much as any nntp provider is... frightening precendent..

It's scary some of you would be willing to accept illegal intrussive search and seizure of your property (risking prosecution for things you may have no control over, such as spam, redirects, etc) all to combat nasty pictures.

understand this:
By the time the pics are distributed, the harm has been done.
The crime is the child being sexually abused by the adult with the camera.
That's who police need to persue. The .jpgs are just copies of evidence.

Yes, it's disgusting,
but possessing a picture of a crime is not as serious as committing the crime.
Rather than violate the constitution with a shotgun approach hoping
to just arrest as many people as possible with copies of pictures,
use those resources to find and convict the actual perpetrators.

Here is the problem with the Internet, especially the adult side.

"I run a system that is so big I cannot police it, therefore I'm not responsible" Well look at the law and see what it says on that point.

Adult Check used the same excuse and the judge threw it out, because the law says, run a system you can police or you are liable. How would you like it if cars breaks were not working and Ford said, "We produce so many we can't check them all"

Could this ISP have run checks, filters or random views on what their system was being used for. Could they have installed a program that works like Net Nanny and blocks or alerts people of CP? Or were they just getting rich by spending as little as possible and allowing access to CP?

The perpetrators might not be in the US, so does that make it all right for US citizens to view CP?

It's produced for two reasons, too abuse a child and profit. hit the profit side and make a few more children safe.

I think what swung that case was the way the guns were marketted. Is a seller liable if he advertises a product in a way to encourage criminals?

After 9/11 we all allow our luggage to be searched at airports in the attempt to make it safer for the rest of us, is this an invasion of privacy?

And did the police who raided the ISP have a search warrant? If so they had suspicions. Now if a storage facility was suspected of storing material for terrorists and had a search warrant to search the facility and found illegal bomb making equipment would that make the storage facility and the storer liable? Fed Ex check all our parcels before they take them away to see if it's legal. A big organisation handling millions of parcels a day doing their job.

Mmm.. I'm not familiar with the "angles" on US law... but just wondering how the fuck any "agency" can end up walking into a data center and just seizing boxes because they think - what is on them??? CP? I thought that supposed to be on the newsgroups??

This does not sound like some raid on a CP operation - more a fishing trip to see what and who they can wind in. This may be fine with US law (or whichever State this was in), but... thinking... it is not OK in most countries where I do know something about the law, - it would be instant firing of whoever instigated this action.

Time and time again this, and other things pop up - they all are concerned with "control" - plus aspects of intrusion into basic privacy.

I gave up trying to do business within the US a few years back. I loved the place, (before that slime ball was elected and fucked it up), but cannot actually "trust" much there. I'm waiting for the day when data provided to VISA US ends up being the source hahahahahahahahas in a sample "mass indictment" of webmasters - or at least those who, for whatever reason, decided they needed to open their business up to VISA. It's far too easy to walk into these "innocent compliance" and "we are legal now" situations.

BTW.. anyone else ever had *all* their foreign mail opened up by that other "intelligence agency" - the USPS?? I had only one day where someone must have been asleep on the job and forgot to rip the mail open. There was fuck all "interesting" in the mail - they even opened up simple one page letters - obviously there was a pound of explosive hidden in them. Now I can see why there is a failure in "intell" - they wasted their time watching my boring mail!!

Finally... it was 20 years ago that US "intelligence" has no less than 8 acres of computers gathering data. OK.. boxes are smaller in size these days, but I suppose they now have 50 fold more data - what the fuck for???

Time will tell :-)

BTW.. that hahahahahahahahas shit is mean't to read D O C U M E N T A T I O N.

Webby
I assume they had a search warrant issued by a judge after he was presented with evidence. Otherwise everything siezed is useless.