$100 
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so alex do you even promote pps programs these days?Comment
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LOL you was the one who started with the 40-60% mathOriginally posted by Alex From San Diego
I do not say, many programs have such good retention.
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Excellent workOriginally posted by Alex From San DiegoComment
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Isn't it the big boys supposedly with the crappy members areas that are always paying out the highest PPS?Originally posted by andrej_NDCof course, its not that easy to have 40% trial to full conversions on all types of traffic, therefore I said, that programs with GOOD retention can pay per SU easily, others cantComment
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Isn't it the big boys supposedly with the crappy members areas (which translates into bad retention) that are always paying out the highest PPS?Originally posted by andrej_NDCyou was the one who started with the 40-60% math I do not say, many programs have such good retention.
I'm seriously inquiring, not judging or condemning.Comment
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yes, some of them have really bad members areas...but for example if you get $5 NET on each sale(PPS program), its harder for a program that get 100 sales a day to pay that, than for a program with 5000 sales per day...they get the profits on high volumeOriginally posted by Mike33Comment
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I promote PPS and revshare but the PPS programs I do promote, I have a long relationship with and I don't get 30.00 - 35.00 PS...not even close.Originally posted by bigdog
The traffic I send to PPS programs are all from SE traffic too.We are what we repeatedly do.-AristotleComment
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is anyone really doing 5k joins a day accept maybe the python crewOriginally posted by andrej_NDCComment
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I know at least 2 programs with 5k+ a day, except ND/bangbrosOriginally posted by bigdogComment
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Originally posted by andrej_NDC
It is all relative regardless if a program does 100 sales per day or 5000 per day.
100 sales per day with 30 PS has to pay out 3k per day or 90k per month
5000 sales per day with 30 PS has to pay out 150k per day or 4.5 million per month
What that tells me, you better have plenty of start up capital....LOL
Forget salaries and overhead....you need around 1.5 million in reserves just for a program that is doing 100 sales per day....lol
Numbers don't lie and never will...sorry but I minored in mathmatics....lolWe are what we repeatedly do.-AristotleComment
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yes, thats true, when starting a PPS program, the owner needs to have enough reserves to pay for the joins. Even a revshare program that start offering PPS needs to have tons of capital for the first months...Originally posted by Alex From San DiegoComment
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I'm just thinking that the actual number of sales per day wouldn't make a difference in profit margins because that would assume that the ratio in Alex's calculations changes at some value of sales.Originally posted by andrej_NDC
For instance, even if the program is doing 5000 in sales it would still be losing in the end if we assume that 40% trial conversion become full memberships and each month 60% of those full memberships continue to rebill.Comment
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how can they lose money when they make $37 per sale only with rebills? As I heard before, PPS programs often dont pay on check, dialer and other revenue, so add another 20-30% to it + cross sales, upsalles, mailings(each member email is worth $3+ for sure)Originally posted by Mike33Comment
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if pps programs are shaving, what techniques are they using to shave so they don't get caught by an affilate doing test joinsComment
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the "sorry" method, you will make a test sale, it wont show in your stats, you make a thread on GFY about it or email them, they will add the join and tell you, we are sorry, it was a bug in the system and the sale wasnt credited properly. Everybody on GFY says what a great job they did (if they like the owner of the program) and after few days nobody remembers...Originally posted by bigdog
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Exactly my point Mike...you will always lose reagrdless of how many joins per day comes through the program....if you net 5.00 per join, it is still 5.00 per join....LOLOriginally posted by Mike33
I think you understand Mike : ))We are what we repeatedly do.-AristotleComment
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Wow.... interesting. Some of you guys are paying way to much for exclusive content. God Im glad I shoot my own.SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.Comment
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Originally posted by Alex From San Diego you dont see the difference? if you make 500 sales and then start making 5000 sales, doesnt mean that your costs are 10x like before, the hosting costs are higher, the content costs are the same, but the revenue is 10x higher.
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so you say that 100 sales a day and $500 net profit is the same like 5000 sales a day and $25000 profit?Originally posted by Mike33Comment
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You need to contact me and show me how each members email is worth 3.00....better yet....I'll give you my entire database of emails for 1.50 each.Originally posted by andrej_NDC
You can double your money....LOLWe are what we repeatedly do.-AristotleComment
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This wins "Thread of the Week"Crypto HODLr
Crypto mining
Angel investorComment
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Alex, although I still disagree with you on certain cost factors, I have to admit you are very good at crunching numbersOriginally posted by Alex From San DiegoComment
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It is still 5.00 net per join and that is if you have 40% trial conversions and 60% rebills...I can tell you, there are very few programs that can do that.Originally posted by andrej_NDC
The programs with 30-50 front ends and the same garbage feeds for the members area are not even close to doing that.
At 5000 joins per day (Extremely hard BTW...LOL) is 4.5 million per month in payouts at 30.00 per join. We already established it takes approx 7 months to make the 5.00 net or $25k from the original 5000 joins. You would need around 30 million in reserves just to stay afloat.We are what we repeatedly do.-AristotleComment
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Originally posted by andrej_NDC
how much your emails are worth depends if you can get whitelisted and wind up in a surfers inboxComment
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Originally posted by DeadFidel
Thanks : ))
I just love the numbers game.We are what we repeatedly do.-AristotleComment
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Good point bigdog....emails today are not worth nearly as much as 3-4 years ago especially for porn.Originally posted by bigdogWe are what we repeatedly do.-AristotleComment
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It would be great if a PPS program paying beyond $35 per join would jump into this thread and show how the numbers game can actually work. Actual earnings don't have to be known. Simply substituting hypothetical numbers like "50" and working out the ratios and percentages based on those hypothetical numbers would show that it either works or it doesn't. Dispelling the myth and proving number crunchers like Alex wrong would be more than welcome. I've crunched the numbers myself before and came up with similar values Alex did. I swear on my life that I'd love to know what I'm doing wrong just to know that I'm wrong.
If Alex had included fees, hosting/bandwidth, maintenance, staff, the numbers would have ended up in the red.
I have thought of alternate explanations such as a "loss leader" in which case the PPS actually loses money but the revshare portions, upsells/crossells, mailers, and product sales (tangible like pills or non-tangible like eraser software) pick up the tab. But that too would be rather risky.
I'm not a math wiz. Is there anybody here majoring in math that could do calcuations to make a $35 PPS scenario work out?Comment
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Alex -
Can you link to that Adult Legal place you speak of where you can license DVD's?NYCComment
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Thank you.NYCComment
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Mike....hit me up on icq 74296267 and I'll send you my spreadsheet when I get to the office. I have it broken down extensively where you can enter various variables and see the results.Originally posted by Mike33
I doubt you will see anyone come in here with factual numbers to disprove this theory. Shoot, I'm sure I am going to get blasted by some program owners.....LOLWe are what we repeatedly do.-AristotleComment
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Alex, have you read this thread?
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...adid=103026&s=
I am interested what you think about what The Doc wrote there?
thanksI don't use ICQ anymore.Comment
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I read it back then and laughed and I read it today and the outcome was the same.
$20.00 per email....LOL
It is bullshit. I don't know any nicer way to say it than that.
His numbers are very skewed.
100 sales per day and owners of these programs are living in 1 million dollar mansions, driving exotic cars?
I can tell you we do more than 100 joins per day and I'm not living in a million dollar mansion...my home is 850k but then again I live in San Diego so my home is 1600 sqft built in 1951.....lolWe are what we repeatedly do.-AristotleComment
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what is very intresting to me is that lens is the only one doing high pps payouts with nats, everyone else is revshareComment
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That sounds about right. My site is average and it is doing great for average. I dont have hardcore on my site and guys still like me. Dont expect to make what some big porn sites do but you can make a living off of it. Just stay on top of it. Everything I have learned has been from the guys on this site. Post some pic's and i am sure the guys will help you out with knowledge.Originally posted by Veterans Daybeing VERY resourceful you could pull it off for 5-7k range. Dont worry 98% of all paysites are average, disregard the previous comments made
Sunny LeoneComment
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I've spent 20k on the site I'm about to open....almost all of it on content and programming/design.
The hosting costs don't really come into play until the site is live and people are joining.
Now I'll probably spend a shitload more after I get back from Vegas on marketing, buying traffic, shit like that.
Plus you always have to have to content people constantly going....you need to update often.
Alex's numbers are a little high....content costs will vary depending on your niche. A softcore teen site is much cheaper to produce content for than scenes of a teen getting gang banged by 4 black guys.
But whatever the costs are, a paysite should definitely NOT be your first, or even your third venture in this biz.....you need to be able to support your paysite with traffic that you alone send (or buy) because affiliates are hard to get.sig too bigComment
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Its actually better than that....BUT they only charge $24.95 a month, so its easier to get surfers to stay for months on end than it is for sites that charge $40.Originally posted by bigdog
But the lower price definitely makes the $$ per member lower.sig too bigComment
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Great thread....
I'm bookmarking it....
It's been a while since I last learned so much from GFY...I'm just a newbie.Comment
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i guess naughtyamerica will lose one of their better affilates nowOriginally posted by Lenny2Comment
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ok what about paying on conversion to full membership or fullmember joins
at 35 or 40 bucks memberships you roughly break even paying an affiliate per join after 12-14% fees
1:3 rebilling will net 120 profit per 3 joins over 3 months which on my last pays averaged the rebilling cycle
ok different take on it and rather simpleComment
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I heard revshare works if you offer exclusive content.Originally posted by Alex From San Diego
Sig FreeComment
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Originally posted by Sunny Leone
I think that solo girl/couple sites owned and operated by themselves are a special cases. You don't have to pay any models (because you are the model), you don't have to pay a content provider (assuming your boyfriend/husband shoots the photos of you, you don't need a camera crew), and together you encode your videos and so on. I think most people in this thread are referring to traditional sites where all of that is outsourced. Exclusive content like that costs a lot so you're saving on one of the largest startup costs being the model and owner of your own site. Therefore your site is not 'average' by any means. And on that note, I'm happy to hear you're doing well
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You hit it right on the head. If you put shit in, you will get shit out. We live by the phrase "quality (exclusive) NOT quanity".Originally posted by UniversalPassLorencewww.JasonandAlex.com
Christopher's ICQ: 268-843-170Comment
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I would say don't start a paysite. Get some traffic - send it to me and make really good money. Then start a paysite and you can take back your traffic.ADULT DATE LINK If You Have Traffic, we can make you $$$. Great Conversion Ratio from a Trusted Company.
Seven great niches - black, teen, gay, mature, latin, asian, swinger.
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lets b honest about this
i cant see 'big programs' with poorer members areas just throwing it away
but paying 35 on a 2.95 trial makes me seriously wonder how the hell they do make money,especially when they open all their sites up to membersComment
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??? only exclusive content is quality? What has is to do with quality of the content?Originally posted by iBankerComment
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I just check my 2004 stats with TopBucks, I dont use PPS with them, but revshare.
I have $65 / sale (statsremote)
they pay 80%, but deduct 15% as fees(even when they dont pay 15% with their volume, for sure), 20% is their cut, so they make $100 per sale(including fees) from my traffic.
$100
-$15 fees
-$20 their cut
-$65 my cut
$100 per sale(including fees) just out from rebills, I wont start with the bonus income again.
Of course, they dont make that much for each sale, but I dont think my traffic is so special, some guys can make even more per sale...Comment
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We should examine Oxcash's Bang Brothers Online spin-off of last year. It started as a PPS only program paying $20 per trial and $35 per full membership sold. The BBO sites are cross sold into Nasty Dollars. All exits are credited and are only internal. This is the same as Nasty Dollars (and now Oxcash 5.0) $35 PPS with credit on exits (all exits internal), cross sold into Oxcash. BBO later added 50% Revshare.Originally posted by Alex From San Diego
$5.95 trial $34.95 monthly
Perfect Gonzo is another excellent example. They have two (now three) exclusive sites priced at $4.95 trial and $29.95 monthly. The key is the internal cross sale and the internal only credited exit.
PPS works if you have exclusive content with serious brand development and either multiple sites or multiple programs to cross sell.
Both programs dedicated a massive amount of effort culling free site traffic directly through its hosted galleries, gallery spot purchases, and internal TGP networks.
Perfect Gonzo's business model is stunning. They relied on no affiliate for traffic. It was all purchased simultaneously for concentrated brand building. Once they juiced the networks for themselves, PG released it to a second tier of webmasters. People always ask how Nasty Dollars and Oxcash keep selling - it's the brand.Make Levees, Not WarComment
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