150 homo shavers
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Originally posted by rayadp05 -
Which was a point you didnt have to make because nowhere in this thread was it mentioned that you DO have a shave feature.The only claims we've made is that NATS has no shave feature
Again, i dont see anywhere in this thread where you have been met with defiance, i think everyone agrees there is no shave feature built into NATs but you yourself have even agreed it is still possible for an affiliate program to shave using your application.I never imagined in my life we'd be met with so much definace for trying to bring a little bit of integrity to the business.
Of course because the fact that your application is the latest fad in the industry has nothing to do with it. I used one of the more popular programs to illustrate my point, if this thread had been started 3 months ago, i would have used MPA3 in the thread title.Lee is annoying, he choose to single us out, most likely for the attention.
The difference is, everyone seems to be under the impression you CANT be shaved by an affiliate program using NATs.. As you yourself have agreed in this very thread, that isnt the case.
So you are pissed that i said we were using NATs? Where did i say that? I made a 'comment' i never said we actually did use NATs.But when he starts a thread making false claims (i.e. he uses NATS)
Thats the problem with many people on GFY, they focus on the stuff that really doesnt matter and bring their emotions into the discussion when there shouldnt be any emotion involved at all. This is business, end of story.
Perhaps because most webmasters arent under the impression it is IMPOSSIBLE to shave with CCBill, as they seem to be with NATs, hell ive seen several threads in the last 2 months where affiliate programs were recommonded because they are 'incapable of shaving' because 'they use NATs'.As far as the modifying of things, you can do exactly the same thing with a CCBill only program (as serveral people have stated in this thread). People for years have said "you're safe with us since we use ccbill for our affiliate program". No one ever jumped on them for it.
Agreed.. phone support is a rare thing.. shaving however.. is not.NATS is a very powerful, very flexible software that is growing and taking hold at an unbelievable rate. It is doing so for the most part because it is the best option out there for an affiliate program looking for a turnkey package and it has a real company behind it that offers real service and support. You can ALWAYS reach us by phone during business hours. That may sound silly but it's a rarity in the adult business.
I see no drama.NATS taking hold so quickly has some people in the business scared. With that comes hate and drama threads like we have here.
I see facts being agreed upon and nothing more.
I have nothing to gain from letting webmasters know they can in fact be shaved by an affiliate program that uses NATs.
Regards,
LeeLast edited by European Lee; 12-18-2004, 11:34 PM.Comment
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I am going to reply to a few of the shaving things mentioned here in a few hours, I just got up, but dude, seriously. ITS IN THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD!Originally posted by European Lee
So you are pissed that i said we were using NATs? Where did i say that? I made a 'comment' i never said we actually did use NATs.
"Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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Originally posted by Nathan
I am going to reply to a few of the shaving things mentioned here in a few hours, I just got up, but dude, seriously. ITS IN THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD!Basic knowledge of the English language would say that the thread title was 'suggestive', not fact.
i could
Regards,
LeeComment
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Actually, the suggestive part of the header is "I Could Shave You" the "Even Though We are using NATS" is not suggestive in any part.Originally posted by European Lee
Basic knowledge of the English language would say that the thread title was 'suggestive', not fact.
Regards,
Lee
You can twist it all you want, anyone reading the title immediately would think you are using nats."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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So you are in agreement that the thread title and how you interpreted it is what has you guys on the defensive?Originally posted by Nathan
Actually, the suggestive part of the header is "I Could Shave You" the "Even Though We are using NATS" is not suggestive in any part.
You can twist it all you want, anyone reading the title immediately would think you are using nats.
Interesting.
Regards,
LeeComment
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Uhm, do not put words in my mouth. This is the first time I even posted in this thread and that is all I had to say regarding your constant bla bla bla.Originally posted by European Lee
So you are in agreement that the thread title and how you interpreted it is what has you guys on the defensive?
Interesting.
Regards,
Lee
I will post in a few hours again regarding the shaving stuff mentioned here, once I am fully awake and can focus on it."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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Well just so we're clear on the facts and merits of this thread.. that was actually the second time you posted but lets not split hairs over it.Originally posted by Nathan
This is the first time I even posted in this thread and that is all I had to say regarding your constant bla bla bla.
As you say you arent fully awake yet so not remembering what you posted 2 minutes ago is understandable.
Looking forward to seeing your response to the other facts aout how affiliate programs can still shave their webmasters evn when using the NATs technology once you have gathered your thoughts
Regards,
LeeComment
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This thread is ridiculous, no one is even arguing the same thing.
For once I agree with Lee, and understand the point he's making...
Even though NATS has not claimed that it is impossible to shave with their product, the general opinion of the average webmaster is that NATS = no shave. I have no idea who originated this opinion, but I have heard through word-of-mouth, and even read posts such as "xxxxx is using NATS (so no shaving)", and I am constantly amused by it...
I believe the point of the thread is, an affiliate should not promote a program using NATS just because they believe they will not be shaved because of the affiliate software, and nor should a program feel they have to switch to NATS to gain affiliate trust. Unfortunately these ideas have appeared within the last few months, although through no fault of the NATS team.Last edited by fuzebox; 12-19-2004, 01:13 AM.Comment
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Agreed it seems that a lot of people have let their emotions get in the way of facts of this thread.This thread is ridiculous, no one is even arguing the same thing.
Yet a lot of the people replying in this thread dont.. go figure... you would almost think they have something to gain by allowing webmasters to continue thinking it is impossible to shave when an affiliate program uses NATs.For once I agree with Lee, and understand the point he's making...
Agreed.I believe the point of the thread is, an affiliate should not promote a program using NATS just because they believe they will not be shaved because of the affiliate software, and nor should a program feel they have to switch to NATS to gain affiliate trust. Unfortunately these ideas have appeared within the last few months, although through no fault of the NATS team.
At least i know there is one person who understands what i was saying
Regards,
LeeComment
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You are correct, it is not impossible to shave with NATS. We have said that all the time. BUT one thing you HAVE to understand is that we do not let any of our clients shave. If anyone IS found to shave around NATS we WILL terminate their license and we WILL sue them.Originally posted by fuzebox
This thread is ridiculous, no one is even arguing the same thing.
For once I agree with Lee, and understand the point he's making...
Even though NATS has not claimed that it is impossible to shave with their product, the general opinion of the average webmaster is that NATS = no shave. I have no idea who originated this opinion, but I have heard through word-of-mouth, and even read posts such as "xxxxx is using NATS (so no shaving)", and I am constantly amused by it...
I believe the point of the thread is, an affiliate should not promote a program using NATS just because they believe they will not be shaved because of the affiliate software, and nor should a program feel they have to switch to NATS to gain affiliate trust. Unfortunately these ideas have appeared within the last few months, although through no fault of the NATS team.
And on top of that we make it as difficult as possible for anyone to shave.
Also, the fact that all our clients KNOW we will sue them when they shave and KNOW we will terminate their license, is something that protects the affiliate. We have a close eye on our clients and they know. If anyone does shave somehow we WILL catch them, there is no doubt there.
Anyone using NATS would have to put a lot of effort into it to shave without everyone noticing they are doing it. And even if they figure out a way to do so, we ARE going to detect it and the shit will hit the fan. People investing the time and energy to learn and use NATS to its fullest capabilities will not even THINK about trying to shave because they do not have to to be competitive in this industry."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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That was the only reply this thread needed.. Right at the beginning.Originally posted by Nathan
[B]You are correct, it is not impossible to shave with NATS.
No offence Nathan but, there is absolutely no way that you could find out if a client of yours was shaving.. specifically if they didnt include the NATs tracking on their tour pages or, are you saying that you check every one of your clients paysites 24/7/365? Very impressive if you do, i would love to be able to afford someone to surf thousands of paysites every second, every hour, of every dayIf anyone IS found to shave around NATS we WILL terminate their license and we WILL sue them.
Again, no offence but you dont. It has already been stated that all a program has to d is utilize a php include into a tour page and you and the affiliates would be non the wiser.And on top of that we make it as difficult as possible for anyone to shave.
Looking forward to seeing the first ever lawsuit in the industry about shavingAlso, the fact that all our clients KNOW we will sue them when they shave and KNOW we will terminate their license, is something that protects the affiliate. We have a close eye on our clients and they know. If anyone does shave somehow we WILL catch them, there is no doubt there.
It will certainly set a precedent thats for sure
No they wouldnt.Anyone using NATS would have to put a lot of effort into it to shave without everyone noticing they are doing it.
As i said though, the first comment you made in your post was all that was needed in this thread. It is exactly what i said in my original post yet for watever reason, the points people were arguing had nothing to do with those comments lol
Glad to see you are in agreement that its possible to shave even when an affiliate program uses NATs technology.. kudos
Now if you could figure a way out to have all the paysite tours included in an 'admin' area or have your script generate the tour pages.. that would be something worth marketing
Regards,
LeeLast edited by European Lee; 12-19-2004, 01:47 AM.Comment
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Oh and ever so quickly, on the subject of editing the MySQL database to 'drop' sales etc.
Why not have the MySQL data encoded in addition to the php coding? Would certainly make it a LOT harder for dishonest programs to shave sales if you did.
Regards,
LeeComment
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There is no practical way to do this.Originally posted by European Lee
Why not have the MySQL data encoded in addition to the php coding? Would certainly make it a LOT harder for dishonest programs to shave sales if you did.
Curious though, how exactly would the NATS guys figure out one of their customers is shaving?
I'd imagine that as soon as word got out that sponsor company X was shaving, they'd have bigger worries than a lawsuit from a company who's software they license.Comment
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From my understanding of php/MySQL it should actually be quite easy to do.Originally posted by fuzebox
There is no practical way to do this.
You simply have a 'key' based on the amount of seconds from a given date for example:
Based on the date/time of this post the key would be something like:
A - 1
B - 2
C - 3
D - 4
E - 5
etc etc
The script would write the data to MySQL using that key so that the word 'BAD' would appear as '214' in the MySQL database.
The script would know the key but, an affiliate program wouldnt.
Regards,
LeeComment
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If the script "knows" the key, than the affiliate program also "knows" the key.Originally posted by European Lee
From my understanding of php/MySQL it should actually be quite easy to do.
You simply have a 'key' based on the amount of seconds from a given date for example:
Based on the date/time of this post the key would be something like:
A - 1
B - 2
C - 3
D - 4
E - 5
etc etc
The script would write the data to MySQL using that key so that the word 'BAD' would appear as '214' in the MySQL database.
The script would know the key but, an affiliate program wouldnt.
Regards,
Lee
If the code is installed on the affiliate program's server, there are many ways to reverse engineer whatever methodthey are using to encode the data. Obviously with something like shaving there is enough of a financial incentive for them to do it.Comment
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True enough but, its one more safeguard NATs would include to deter their users from shaving which right now, they dont haveOriginally posted by fuzebox
If the script "knows" the key, than the affiliate program also "knows" the key.
If the code is installed on the affiliate program's server, there are many ways to reverse engineer whatever methodthey are using to encode the data. Obviously with something like shaving there is enough of a financial incentive for them to do it.
Plus, im sure it would be possible to have the key write the data on the fly so that every time a sale was made, the key was generated dynamically based on the time of the sale.
Regards,
LeeComment
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If you tried these techniques you would see posts here at GFY saying, "What the fuck [program]? I had a sale at 1am and then it just disapeared! This is not the first time either!!!"Originally posted by European Lee
Oh and ever so quickly, on the subject of editing the MySQL database to 'drop' sales etc.
Why not have the MySQL data encoded in addition to the php coding? Would certainly make it a LOT harder for dishonest programs to shave sales if you did.
Regards,
Lee
When that post comes in, you get John sniffing around your ass for why a NATS program is possibly shaving... If it is, pull the license. Simple.
But here is the point. It isn't easy to shave and by far shaving isn't the worst thing you can do in the first place. The worst thing you can do is let your program run down and have shitty websites with cookie-cutter designs. Fail to update your members areas with fresh good content and fail to update your affiliate areas with fresh clean content.
So if you are going to post a thread about shit, talk about what is happening at a higher percentage and can be quantified. The fact is you don't know, first hand, of a program that is shaving for sure even if they are using an affiliate system that includes it as an option. But I am sure you know of some that piss their content money away on bling-bling and the program suffers and goes to shit. So talk about them.
Come on... Do us all a favor and tell us who they are! While you are at it, tell us who shaves!Comment
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You are wrong, there are ways to do it, and we do them every day. There are consistancy things we can check at any time to see if something weird is going on. We do not need to monitor a program every second to figure it out.Originally posted by European Lee
No offence Nathan but, there is absolutely no way that you could find out if a client of yours was shaving.. specifically if they didnt include the NATs tracking on their tour pages or, are you saying that you check every one of your clients paysites 24/7/365? Very impressive if you do, i would love to be able to afford someone to surf thousands of paysites every second, every hour, of every day
You stated that, yes. Did I actually tell you that this would help you? As far as I remember I did not. Do tell me, what would you do in your so great php include to shave? Enlighten me.Originally posted by European Lee
Again, no offence but you dont. It has already been stated that all a program has to d is utilize a php include into a tour page and you and the affiliates would be non the wiser.
This is not needed to protect against shaving.Originally posted by European Lee
Now if you could figure a way out to have all the paysite tours included in an 'admin' area or have your script generate the tour pages.. that would be something worth marketing
"Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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unfortuanly, thats the big problem in this biz.Originally posted by pradaboy
I bet you could, it's all about trust not software options
Need a Text Writer?
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Comment
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At the busiest traffic times of any given site..Originally posted by Nathan
Do tell me, what would you do in your so great php include to shave? Enlighten me.
You have a .php include on your join form which changes to a 'affiliate link code free' version of the join form.
In much the same way that you can specify a certain image shows on a certain day/time on a .php page.
Its not really rocket science.
Regards,
LeeComment
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You are correct, what is needed are honest sponsors unfortunately, they are few and far between.Originally posted by Nathan
This is not needed to protect against shaving.
Would you not agree that enabling NATs to generate a paysites tour pages would be a much better way to monitor whether or not a tour is shaving?
Afterall, you could embed the NATs tracking script in EVERY tour page automatically.
Regards,
LeeComment
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NATS would still register the sale to the correct affiliate.Originally posted by European Lee
At the busiest traffic times of any given site..
You have a .php include on your join form which changes to a 'affiliate link code free' version of the join form.
In much the same way that you can specify a certain image shows on a certain day/time on a .php page.
Its not really rocket science.
Regards,
Lee"Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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How? There would be no way of checking the data being sent LOLOriginally posted by Nathan
NATS would still register the sale to the correct affiliate.
Do you not grasp what i am saying? The surfer is being shown a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT join page to the one being used by the NATs system.
Regards,
LeeComment
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Since changing stuff on a tour does not let you shave around NATS, the answer to this is no.Originally posted by European Lee
You are correct, what is needed are honest sponsors unfortunately, they are few and far between.
Would you not agree that enabling NATs to generate a paysites tour pages would be a much better way to monitor whether or not a tour is shaving?
Afterall, you could embed the NATs tracking script in EVERY tour page automatically.
Regards,
Lee"Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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LOL you really arent understanding what i am saying at all.Originally posted by Nathan
Since changing stuff on a tour does not let you shave around NATS, the answer to this is no.
If there is NOTHING on a tour relating to NATs, how can you tell what is and what isnt being sent where? Simple.. you cant.
Regards,
LeeComment
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Considering that you would still use the same billers as with NATS, you wouldOriginally posted by European Lee
How? There would be no way of checking the data being sent LOL
Do you not grasp what i am saying? The surfer is being shown a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT join page to the one being used by the NATs system.
Regards,
Lee
1) Miss stats and membership management.
2) Have a sale register in NATS but no NATS join form associated with it which triggers a flag.
3) Other data from the biller might register in NATS but no NATS join form associated with it which triggers even more flags.
IF you would use a totally different biller, you would miss even more stats and membership management causing issues at a later point and with member access to the paysites.
You would also most likely lose more money than you gain because you lose the powerful cascading NATS can offer."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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I answered this in my other post, so lets just stick to one about the same subject to not get totally confused.Originally posted by European Lee
LOL you really arent understanding what i am saying at all.
If there is NOTHING on a tour relating to NATs, how can you tell what is and what isnt being sent where? Simple.. you cant.
Regards,
Lee"Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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So you are in agreement that changing the join form / tour page would result in shaving and NATs not actually tracking an affiliate sale. Good.Originally posted by Nathan
Considering that you would still use the same billers as with NATS, you would
1) Miss stats and membership management.
2) Have a sale register in NATS but no NATS join form associated with it which triggers a flag.
3) Other data from the biller might register in NATS but no NATS join form associated with it which triggers even more flags.
IF you would use a totally different biller, you would miss even more stats and membership management causing issues at a later point and with member access to the paysites.
You would also most likely lose more money than you gain because you lose the powerful cascading NATS can offer.
Regards,
LeeComment
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Who said im using the same processors?Originally posted by Nathan
Considering that you would still use the same billers as with NATS, you would
If im already cheating webmasters by shaving their traffic.. im certainly not going to use a processor that i have already setup in my installation of NATs.
Regards,
LeeComment
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This is the same topic.Originally posted by Nathan
I answered this in my other post, so lets just stick to one about the same subject to not get totally confused.
You said you could track all affiliate data when using NATs.
Im saying that by changing the tour page.. you cant thus, an affiliate program can shave their affiliates, its the same point, just using a different example.
Regards,
LeeComment
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LOL.. yes, you MIGHT be able to shave around 10 sales before so many flags have risen that you will have us asking you a LOT of very uncomfortable questions about what exactly you are doing there.Originally posted by European Lee
So you are in agreement that changing the join form / tour page would result in shaving and NATs not actually tracking an affiliate sale. Good.
Regards,
Lee
It depends a lot on what EXACTLY you are doing on the join pages and how you handle the join pages. And its going to be extremely hard (if not impossible) to do it in a way that NATS would not notice weirdness in the installation.
Also, it will be very noticable that a join is not NATS handled so resellers might notice it when checking out your tour and warn us about it also so we can take a look and verify.
Its not as easy as you think."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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Seriously, it wouldnt be to hard at all.Originally posted by Nathan
It depends a lot on what EXACTLY you are doing on the join pages and how you handle the join pages. And its going to be extremely hard (if not impossible) to do it in a way that NATS would not notice weirdness in the installation.
If a company wants to shave their webmasters, they will find a way, NATs in use or not.
Regards,
LeeComment
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So you will on top of losing money by nolonger being able to cascade, also lose money because of not pushing most of your sales to the same processors. You would also make it TOTALLY obvious that something fishy is going on because suddenly sales go through a totally different biller. So you will shave what? 15% to not make it deadly obvious in your stats, but you would also lose around 20% of your regular sales because of no cascading?Originally posted by European Lee
Who said im using the same processors?
If im already cheating webmasters by shaving their traffic.. im certainly not going to use a processor that i have already setup in my installation of NATs.
Regards,
Lee
So you lose 5% because you shave, and you would make it easy for us to detect and kill your license and ruin your reputation in the industry, awesome idea ;)"Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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Originally posted by European Lee
Seriously, it wouldnt be to hard at all.
If a company wants to shave their webmasters, they will find a way, NATs in use or not.
Regards,
Lee
So you do agree that it is not as easy as you thought it was.
Great"Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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So you are saying there are no legitamate reasons why a sponsor wouldnt instantly change processors at a certain part of the day? Interesting.So you will on top of losing money by nolonger being able to cascade, also lose money because of not pushing most of your sales to the same processors. You would also make it TOTALLY obvious that something fishy is going on because suddenly sales go through a totally different biller.
If an affiliate program is shaving @ 15% and losing 20% of 'affiliate' sales, the sponsor program gains more in the long term. Simple mathematics tells us that a $3.95 trial paying out $35 loses the sponsor more money.So you will shave what? 15% to not make it deadly obvious in your stats, but you would also lose around 20% of your regular sales because of no cascading?
Its actually cost effective for a sponsor program to shave 15% of their affiliates sales.. they save $35 for each regular sale they do make PLUS the make money on the rebills.
Lose 5% of a $3.95 sale or lose $35 from a $3.95 sale.. which is the option that works out better for the sponsor program here? ;)So you lose 5% because you shave
Regards,
LeeComment
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No.Originally posted by Nathan
So you do agree that it is not as easy as you thought it was.
Great
It is as simple as changing a tour page. Period.
Regards,
LeeComment
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anyone can shave no matter what software they use, just by changeing the sign up page would do that.
hosted flv's, hosted galleries, morphing rss feeds, free content, free sites, hosted blogComment
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Apparently not, if they use NATsOriginally posted by Johny Traffic
anyone can shave no matter what software they use, just by changeing the sign up page would do that.
Even though 90% of the people who have read this thread now realise it is that easy.
Regards,
LeeComment
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Just wanted to quote you again for those who may have missed your agreeing with my facts.Originally posted by Nathan
You are correct, it is not impossible to shave with NATS.
Despite using smoke and mirrors to try to retract your agreement.
Regards,
LeeComment
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I would have thought everyone would know that, wouldnt they? Or am I just being niave?Apparently not, if they use NATs
Even though 90% of the people who have read this thread now realise it is that easy.
Regards,
Lee
hosted flv's, hosted galleries, morphing rss feeds, free content, free sites, hosted blogComment
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Well it would seem a lot of webmasters think NATs is a system that makes shaving impossible.Originally posted by Johny Traffic
I would have thought everyone would know that, wouldnt they? Or am I just being niave?
This thread is educating those webmaster though
Regards,
LeeComment
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well if someone cant see how easy it is to shave any system they shouldnt be a webmaster at all.Well it would seem a lot of webmasters think NATs is a system that makes shaving impossible.
This thread is educating those webmaster though
Regards,
Lee.
But there is a way round this if its something that bothers people so much, shall I tell, how you can make it imposible to shave?
hosted flv's, hosted galleries, morphing rss feeds, free content, free sites, hosted blogComment
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Start your own paysite ;)Originally posted by Johny Traffic
well if someone cant see how easy it is to shave any system they shouldnt be a webmaster at all.
But there is a way round this if its something that bothers people so much, shall I tell, how you can make it imposible to shave?
I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to shve themselves although, this is GFY so you never know ;)
Regards,
LeeComment
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ah close but no cigar, impossible for a sponsor to shave you the affiliate.Start your own paysite ;)
I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to shve themselves although, this is GFY so you never know ;)
Regards,
You wanna know
hosted flv's, hosted galleries, morphing rss feeds, free content, free sites, hosted blogComment
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There is no way.Originally posted by Johny Traffic
ah close but no cigar, impossible for a sponsor to shave you the affiliate.
You wanna know
If a sponsor wants to shave their affiliates, they WILL find a way.
Regards,
LeeComment
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I think you're not able to tie your shoes....If lesbian anal is wrong, I don't want to be right.Comment
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Actually, I did not say that. I said that it would be obvious if you switch from a NATS join and biller to a non-nats join and biller.Originally posted by European Lee
So you are saying there are no legitamate reasons why a sponsor wouldnt instantly change processors at a certain part of the day? Interesting.
On a NATS controlled site, if you have a $3.95 trial join, converting to $34.95, using all features NATS offers to maximize your retention, lets say your average retention is only 1.5 months (which is very low). Meaning per member you make around $56,38.Originally posted by European Lee
If an affiliate program is shaving @ 15% and losing 20% of 'affiliate' sales, the sponsor program gains more in the long term. Simple mathematics tells us that a $3.95 trial paying out $35 loses the sponsor more money.
Its actually cost effective for a sponsor program to shave 15% of their affiliates sales.. they save $35 for each regular sale they do make PLUS the make money on the rebills.
Lose 5% of a $3.95 sale or lose $35 from a $3.95 sale.. which is the option that works out better for the sponsor program here? ;)
You payout $35 leaving 21,38 for you.
Going by my example, shaving 15% off would mean you are really only paying $29.75 meaning you keep $26.63 instead. Considering now that due to the shaving you lose 20% of the sales while you shave since cascading is nolonger possible for those, means you lose 3% of all your sales or $1.69 per member. Meaning you only make $24.94.
On TOP of that your retention on those sales, considering you use the same join options, are going to drop a LOT compared to NATS, simply because of our features that we offer which will be very complicated to still use without using our join form. Lets say you lose 0.5 retention, keeping only 1 month on average, means you lose $17.48 on 15% of your sales which means $2.62 per sale. Meaning you now keep $22.32.
Ok, great, you just shaved your affiliates 15%, ruined your reputation because we have found that you shave and now you make $0 instead, and all that for NOT EVEN $1 per member?! Now thats awesome business thinking..."Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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Your right, I guess, theres always a way.There is no way.
If a sponsor wants to shave their affiliates, they WILL find a way.
Regards,
Lee
But how about this. I guess you would need to be a big player, who is trusted.
Take CCBill for example. You host the tour including the sign up page (just before you get taken through to CCBills secure server) with the members area of the tour still being pointed towards the sponsors members area.Last edited by Johny Traffic; 12-19-2004, 04:36 AM.
hosted flv's, hosted galleries, morphing rss feeds, free content, free sites, hosted blogComment
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I am not retracting my agreement. I still agree it is possible to shave even if a program uses NATS.Originally posted by European Lee
Just wanted to quote you again for those who may have missed your agreeing with my facts.
Despite using smoke and mirrors to try to retract your agreement.
Regards,
Lee
You will just not get away with it ;)"Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right."
- Charlie MungerComment
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