assuming the 80/20 (or 90/10) rule is true... - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

X

quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#1

assuming the 80/20 (or 90/10) rule is true...

03-31-2004, 11:30 AM

why do programs whole-hardly slum for the bottom 80 or 90 percent of the shit field?

stupidity? or is there more to it?

if you don't know what i'm talking about, go back to whoring your sig.

please discuss

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Tags: None
detoxed

vip member

Join Date: Jan 2003

Posts: 17798
Share

Post
#2

03-31-2004, 11:30 AM

its more like 95/5 these days
Comment
magicmike

Confirmed User

Join Date: Feb 2003

Posts: 2384
Share

Post
#3

03-31-2004, 11:31 AM

Because its better to have 100 wm's sending 1 join a day than one wm who sends 100 joins a day.

Just Porno with both classic and mobile porn versions.
Gay Porn Our mega gay site tranny porn
Comment
dropped9

Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2001

Posts: 26727
Share

Post
#4

03-31-2004, 11:32 AM

Interesting question. So many ways to go with it. Im gunna have to think about this one for a couple of minutes.
Comment
High Quality

Confirmed User

Join Date: Feb 2002

Posts: 5741
Share

Post
#5

03-31-2004, 11:33 AM

Doesn't really matter in the grand scheme

RecurCash.com - Averaging $38/sale with 60% revshare in the first 4 months alone!

Convert your TEEN traffic today @ better than 1:500 guaranteed. ICQ me: 18287590!
Comment
dropped9

Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2001

Posts: 26727
Share

Post
#6

03-31-2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by magicmike
Because its better to have 100 wm's sending 1 join a day than one wm who sends 100 joins a day.

Good point. Maybe its a form of damage control. If they piss off the guy sending 100 joins a day they just fucked themselves with no ky. But if they piss off a guy with 2 joins a day they arent hurting too much cause they still have the other 98 joins/webmasters.
Comment
quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#7

03-31-2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by magicmike
Because its better to have 100 wm's sending 1 join a day than one wm who sends 100 joins a day.

lol. you sure about that

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Comment
eroswebmaster

March 1st, 2003

Join Date: Jul 2001

Posts: 20295
Share

Post
#8

03-31-2004, 11:34 AM

volume volume volume?

For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
Click here for more details
Comment
detoxed

vip member

Join Date: Jan 2003

Posts: 17798
Share

Post
#9

03-31-2004, 11:35 AM

Face it guys, most webmasters send 0 joins a day. Hell most webmasters cant send 100 uniques a day. But the more webmasters that signup for your program, the better chance you have of getting traffic. Its all a numbers game, recruiting the top affiliates is something that everyone does, but not on a public forum.
Comment
matty

Mining for Porn!

Join Date: Aug 2002

Posts: 1328
Share

Post
#10

03-31-2004, 11:35 AM

dont ask questions... its gonna be that way regardless... it sucks, but whatever, everyone is out to make a buck.

Want to accept Bitcoin (BTC) on your site without any issues? I modestly estimate a 15%-20% boost in conversions.
Projects Like These Cost Big $$$, Please Donate: 112BNRe8WiooVBTqDFSLzjBo6Ve1LunViN
Comment
cluck

Confirmed User

Join Date: Dec 2002

Posts: 5248
Share

Post
#11

03-31-2004, 11:36 AM

The little people are very important, even if they never make money.

Think about bangbus. Do you think it would have branded itself like it did without ever newbie in the world plastering the web with galleries?

How many type in -> signups do you think they get because of that? It's a whole other demographic you have to think about. The people who all the sudden one day get fed up with free porn and decide to spring for an account without being fed tons of banners/popups.

Most of my friends who admit to buying memberships once or twice just bought either bangbus or cumfiesta because they'd seen it everywhere. Of course this got noone referral credit.

icq 279990726
www.mcdonalds.com <- great money making opportunity
Comment
quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#12

03-31-2004, 11:37 AM

i will place money that a solid program would rather have someone sending serious joins, vs a shitload of idiots sending some feeble shit.

lol

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Comment
detoxed

vip member

Join Date: Jan 2003

Posts: 17798
Share

Post
#13

03-31-2004, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by quiet
i will place money that a solid program would rather have someone sending serious joins, vs a shitload of idiots sending some feeble shit.

lol

Of course. But they arent going to turn down having both?
Comment
angelsofporn

Confirmed User

Join Date: Mar 2002

Posts: 3218
Share

Post
#14

03-31-2004, 11:39 AM

the more the better...simple as that
Comment
Brujah

Beer Money Baron

Join Date: Jan 2001

Posts: 22157
Share

Post
#15

03-31-2004, 11:39 AM

where else are you going to get all the extra exit traffic for free, to help balance your higher payouts so you can keep the better webmasters interested.

Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com

For Sale: Obscenity.com
Comment
dropped9

Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2001

Posts: 26727
Share

Post
#16

03-31-2004, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by quiet
i will place money that a solid program would rather have someone sending serious joins, vs a shitload of idiots sending some feeble shit.

lol

Wouldnt they want both? Look at some of the bigger programs. They want both the lil guys and the bigger ones...
Comment
quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#17

03-31-2004, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by detoxed

Of course. But they arent going to turn down having both?

of course not. my question is: why spend all that ad money... bah forget it.

let's just watch how this thread unfolds...

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Comment
quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#18

03-31-2004, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Headless

Wouldnt they want both? Look at some of the bigger programs. They want both the lil guys and the bigger ones...

if haven't noticed, the larger programs are leaning farther and farther towards those who can produce.

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Comment
quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#19

03-31-2004, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Brujah
where else are you going to get all the extra exit traffic for free, to help balance your higher payouts so you can keep the better webmasters interested.

lol

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Comment
cluck

Confirmed User

Join Date: Dec 2002

Posts: 5248
Share

Post
#20

03-31-2004, 11:42 AM

Another branding example.

Adult Friend Finder is promoted on every crappy 2bit free porn site out there. Another friend of mine, after seeing those banners for years decided he wanted pussy one day and joined with a premium membership.

How many people do you think do that? That's why they're a superpower.

icq 279990726
www.mcdonalds.com <- great money making opportunity
Comment
Jdoughs

Confirmed User

Join Date: Mar 2004

Posts: 5794
Share

Post
#21

03-31-2004, 11:44 AM

Its all pretty simple...

Dont put all your eggs in one basket...

I think that basically sums it all up

LinkSpun - Premier Adult Link Trading Community - ICQ - 464/\281/\250
Be Seen By New Webmasters/Affiliates * Target out webmasters/affiliates based on niches your sites are for less than $20 a month.
AmeriNOC - Proudly hosted @ AmeriNOC!
Comment
eroswebmaster

March 1st, 2003

Join Date: Jul 2001

Posts: 20295
Share

Post
#22

03-31-2004, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by quiet

of course not. my question is: why spend all that ad money... bah forget it.

let's just watch how this thread unfolds...

What was the old theory about a surfer needs to see a banner on average about 7 x's before they would click on it? Something like that...this may be why they spend big bucks on what high profile poster and buy up 50 low profile people who post too much for $50 each.

Just about every thread you open up will have their banner in it at some point.

That's if you're speaking directly about sigs.

For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
Click here for more details
Comment
FACE

So Fucking Banned

Join Date: Feb 2004

Posts: 153
Share

Post
#23

03-31-2004, 11:45 AM

they make more money by shaving thousands of newbies.

its hard and risky to shave big dogs.
Comment
quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#24

03-31-2004, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

What was the old theory about a surfer needs to see a banner on average about 7 x's before they would click on it? Something like that...this may be why they spend big bucks on what high profile poster and buy up 50 low profile people who post too much for $50 each.

Just about every thread you open up will have their banner in it at some point.

That's if you're speaking directly about sigs.

absolutely wrong. those who can send the real traffic, are not swayed in any way by sigs or banners (sorry to crush anyone).

it's all about business relationships, proven money trails, and caclulated trust.

anyway, just a fun thread.

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Comment
{fusion}

Confirmed User

Join Date: Sep 2003

Posts: 1650
Share

Post
#25

03-31-2004, 11:48 AM

exposure and branding is the best form of marketing in any business.
Comment
eroswebmaster

March 1st, 2003

Join Date: Jul 2001

Posts: 20295
Share

Post
#26

03-31-2004, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by quiet

absolutely wrong. those who can send the real traffic, are not swayed in any way by sigs or banners (sorry to crush anyone).

it's all about business relationships, proven money trails, and trust.

anyway, just a fun thread.

No it's not absolutely wrong...I'm not referring to high traffic senders responding to sigs...I'm referring to anyone who may see that sig and eventually click it.

It's directed mainly at the newbie and you never know what newbie is going to become the next whale.

For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
Click here for more details
Comment
quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#27

03-31-2004, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

No it's not absolutely wrong...I'm not referring to high traffic senders responding to sigs...I'm referring to anyone who may see that sig and eventually click it.

It's directed mainly at the newbie and you never know what newbie is going to become the next whale.

all i can say, is LOL. any possible 'whale' soon learns how it really works.

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Comment
cherrylula

lol

Join Date: Jan 2002

Posts: 15969
Share

Post
#28

03-31-2004, 11:50 AM

I think its about exposure too.

I have always wondered what % of affiliate traffic gets lost and not credited. As in lost cookies, or those who type-in days/weeks later to a site, or use a different computer.

And also, members who perhaps join through an affiliate code, cancel, and join again at a later time not through a code.

Like how much less Tawnee promo stuff would be out there if Lightspeed didn't have an affiliate program...
Comment
eroswebmaster

March 1st, 2003

Join Date: Jul 2001

Posts: 20295
Share

Post
#29

03-31-2004, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by quiet

all i can say, is LOL. any possible 'whale' soon learns how it really works.

Of course they eventually learn how it works...but they have to start somewhere.

do you think they find sponsors magically? They come on the boards ask about sponsors all of the time....either way the idea would be to be in your face all the time *from the sponsors perspective.*

For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
Click here for more details
Comment
eroswebmaster

March 1st, 2003

Join Date: Jul 2001

Posts: 20295
Share

Post
#30

03-31-2004, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by cherrylula

I have always wondered what % of affiliate traffic gets lost and not credited. As in lost cookies, or those who type-in days/weeks later to a site, or use a different computer.
.

It happens a lot.

For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
Click here for more details
Comment
Peaches

Old broad

Join Date: Oct 2002

Posts: 13933
Share

Post
#31

03-31-2004, 11:54 AM

No one started off the block big. Through the years I've watched many "bottom 80 or 90 percent of the shit field" end up included at the 20% mark

And for those who don't move up the ladder, the 20% they create is still 20% more than 0
Comment
quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#32

03-31-2004, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

Of course they eventually learn how it works...but they have to start somewhere.

do you think they find sponsors magically? They come on the boards ask about sponsors all of the time....either way the idea would be to be in your face all the time *from the sponsors perspective.*

i'm saying, once they become a 'whale' as you put it, they learn of the power they have, and would never look twice at a banner or sig. duuuuuuuh.

again. lol.

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Comment
quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#33

03-31-2004, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Peaches
No one started off the block big. Through the years I've watched many "bottom 80 or 90 percent of the shit field" end up included at the 20% mark

And for those who don't move up the ladder, the 20% they create is still 20% more than 0

absolutely. but most do not get there. and those who do, do not need to be fed banners and sigs. in fact, once they learn what is up, they will likely avoid this sort of advertising

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Comment
eroswebmaster

March 1st, 2003

Join Date: Jul 2001

Posts: 20295
Share

Post
#34

03-31-2004, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by quiet

i'm saying, once they become a 'whale' as you put it, they learn of the power they have, and would never look twice at a banner or sig. duuuuuuuh.

again. lol.

No shit show me where I said they would.

You're asking why they spend so much ad revenue..I honestly don't even know if that is what you were referring to.

I answered the question as to what my opinion was on the matter..it's all about exposure...keeping that sig in front of as many faces as possible.

For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
Click here for more details
Comment
CDSmith

Too lazy to set a custom title

Join Date: May 2001

Posts: 51460
Share

Post
#35

03-31-2004, 11:58 AM

I would think there would be some stability and "safety" in a program having a broad base of affiliates promoting them.

Drawbacks: increased admin service (read: dealing with idiots), having to send out a lot of small cheques, having to supply a lot more diversity in promo materials, etc.

I'd say 80/20 would be being quite generous with the group we're talking about here.

Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!

ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!!
Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634
Comment
quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#36

03-31-2004, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster

No shit show me where I said they would.

You're asking why they spend so much ad revenue..I honestly don't even know if that is what you were referring to.

I answered the question as to what my opinion was on the matter..it's all about exposure...keeping that sig in front of as many faces as possible.

i think we are on the same page now.

but that's no good for drama!!

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Comment
quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#37

03-31-2004, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by CDSmith
I would think there would be some stability and "safety" in a program having a broad base of affiliates promoting them.

Drawbacks: increased admin service (read: dealing with idiots), having to send out a lot of small cheques, having to supply a lot more diversity in promo materials, etc.

I'd say 80/20 would be being quite generous with the group we're talking about here.

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Comment
eroswebmaster

March 1st, 2003

Join Date: Jul 2001

Posts: 20295
Share

Post
#38

03-31-2004, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by quiet

i think we are on the same page now.

but that's no good for drama!!

lol

For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
Click here for more details
Comment
The Other Steve

Confirmed User

Join Date: Dec 2001

Posts: 2106
Share

Post
#39

03-31-2004, 12:02 PM

It does make you wonder why sponsors continue to use small affiliates.

There are those who complain that it's the small time affiliate who is the biggest time waster for their support staff.

Then there is the fact that there would be a saving in labor costs if they didn't have to employ support staff.

Then there is the question of affiliate fraud.

Is it really a waste of time and money for sponsors to rely on affiliates?

Who knows but if it is a waste then perhaps we're about to see a move away from small affiliates and a move towards more in house promotion using traffic purchased directly from brokers, link lists and TGPs.

- but probably not even worth that much.

Left intentionally blank ... just like my brain
Comment
quiet

we'll miss you our friend. RIP

Join Date: Sep 2001

Posts: 25115
Share

Post
#40

03-31-2004, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by The Other Steve
Who knows but if it is a waste then perhaps we're about to see a move away from small affiliates and a move towards more in house promotion using traffic purchased directly from brokers, link lists and TGPs.

can you say bingo.

this is exactly what i predicted happening. in house will be the future.

something i've been doing for years...

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
Comment
Peaches

Old broad

Join Date: Oct 2002

Posts: 13933
Share

Post
#41

03-31-2004, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by quiet

absolutely. but most do not get there. and those who do, do not need to be fed banners and sigs. in fact, once they learn what is up, they will likely avoid this sort of advertising

You're right, most don't get there, ergo the 80/20 rule But in this industry, it IS easy to start off small and grow.

Many business books flat out recommend you "fire" the bottom 20% of your customers every year or so. IMHO, that wouldn't be prudent in this industry unless it's the bottom as far as low conversions, high chargebacks. Getting rid of an affiliate strictly because they are a small producer doesn't make much sense.

As far sigs, I know regarding the banners I carry for WTS and WEG, I get many emails or posts asking me to contact people regarding a plethora of different issues. Some work out to be sales, some are just follow ups on old issues, some likely will turn out to be nothing major. But having the banners identifies me as someone who can be contacted regarding a particular company. And there have been "whales" contacting me also

However, this is NOT the case with a bought sig and therefore doesn't carry the usefulness - again, MHO.

I think we probably agree on most of the 80/20 rule, I probably just tend to want to nurture (to a point) the lower end of the spectrum whereas it seems you feel they are closer to dead weight - it's the mothering instinct in me.
Comment
gornyhuy

Chafed.

Join Date: May 2002

Posts: 18041
Share

Post
#42

03-31-2004, 12:10 PM

expensive sigs and banners and site takeovers build awareness and a 'rep' amongst the big players and future big players alike.

1) A "whale" sees a program paying $12k for a sig and assumes that they must be just ROLLING in cash if they can throw it away on seemingly valueless sig impressions... perceived success and perceived value amongst the 'real' target audience might get them some key accounts.

2)In the meantime, they build the brand awareness as discussed above through the efforts of hundreds of the clueless and get some volume and shaving and mass market exposure.

I don't know... I'm just a dumb fuckin' newbie.

icq:159548293
Comment
Fletch XXX

GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!

Join Date: Jan 2002

Posts: 60840
Share

Post
#43

03-31-2004, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by quiet

but that's no good for drama!!

Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site?

Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me
Comment
Keev

Confirmed User

Join Date: May 2001

Posts: 5335
Share

Post
#44

03-31-2004, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by detoxed
its more like 95/5 these days

This is more or less true across the board for most programs I would say....

As far as programs are concerned Ideally you want the big guys sending alot of joins consistantly and I think the reason for going after the smaller guys is for viral marketing that eventually get to the middle class webmasters which are sending from 3-5 joins a day to a particular program your kinda padding your affiliate base if affiliates are your main source of traffic. Big affiliates don't promote you forvever on there own without a program reinventing itself, constantly updating hot content and etc, so why not get some padding in there so when they do stop it revenue doesn't drop as bad.

But if you have the cash and the small team around you you can keep it almost all in house with maybe a couple selected affiliates and do just as good and convert better than having so many affiliates.... but you have to have the team/ resources to do it. (cough "quiet")

As far as the nastydollars / oxcash method , I kinda see it as sheer word of mouth, viral marketing across the internet.. peer to peer, affiliates, in house, and in the end they make a ton from word of mouth and typeins.

ReliableServers.com - NO REF LINK!
Comment
Brujah

Beer Money Baron

Join Date: Jan 2001

Posts: 22157
Share

Post
#45

03-31-2004, 12:58 PM

What would happen to all the TGPs and TGP webmasters ?

Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com

For Sale: Obscenity.com
Comment
Basic_man

Programming King Pin

Join Date: Oct 2003

Posts: 27360
Share

Post
#46

03-31-2004, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by detoxed
its more like 95/5 these days

yeah right..

UUGallery Builder - automated photo/video gallery plugin for Wordpress!
Stop looking! Checkout Naked Hosting, online since 1999 !
Comment
StuartD

Sofa King Band

Join Date: Jul 2002

Posts: 29903
Share

Post
#47

03-31-2004, 01:05 PM

I agree, a lot of people are going in house.

However, who's to say who will be in that 5, 10 or 20 next week, or next year?

Doing sales, I had to try really hard to talk to 100 people because I knew that only 10 would buy (on average).

Does that mean I should just stop talking to everyone and try to somehow use my ESP and pick out the 10 good ones? I wish I could, I really do.

However, that's not how it works. There is a big buyer (or seller in this case) out there and has yet to be discovered. Will you try to get him/her or will you just leave it to someone else who's willing to try to impress the 100 to get to that 1?

This is me on facebook
This is me on twitter
Comment
TheDoc

Too lazy to set a custom title

Join Date: Jul 2001

Posts: 13827
Share

Post
#48

03-31-2004, 01:12 PM

I have been a paysite owner and ran programs for years now..

I would rather have both

10000 webmasters, 20% active, 2000 active webmasters.. 20% is a good program, 5-10% for most.

Out of 2000, chances are you will NEVER have 5% that can send over 10 joins a day.

It's better to have a large base of small webmasters. They have better traffic, it retains longer and makes the program owner more money.

A program normally has 5 or less LARGE webmasters, 1 or 2 is more like it.

Now programs like ND/OX, etc in it's prime, I'm sure have some what better numbers for the rest of the world, this is right in line.

~TheDoc - ICQ7765825
It's all disambiguation
Comment
rounders

Confirmed User

Join Date: Sep 2003

Posts: 2931
Share

Post
#49

03-31-2004, 01:14 PM

Good point Doc

ICQ#: 153923840
Comment
Juicy D. Links

So Fucking Banned

Join Date: Apr 2001

Posts: 122992
Share

Post
#50

03-31-2004, 01:14 PM

off topic, but in the next few months ill be releasing some stuff and will have no affiliates all in house . Why? Well 3+ yrs doing this i know how to generate traffic and market and really dont have patience with noobs and their questions. Second only aff i might take would be seasoned people who dont need to be held step by step and so on.
Comment

Previous 1 2 template Next

Working...