Verotel Business Practice - Acceptable?

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  • RWF
    Confirmed User
    • Mar 2004
    • 113
    #51
    If there is a chargeback fee, then I do not think it is fair that they put it all on me.

    It should be spread amongst the website, and me the affiliate, thats is same percentage my commision of the sale is.

    If my commision is 50%, sure I could "maybe" accept that I should should cover 50% of the chargeback fee.
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      • psyko514
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        • Oct 2002
        • 22366
        #52
        How about you verify with Verotel instead of asking GFY?

        Also, do you understand the fact that they don't want your traffic yet?

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          • chupacabra
            Confirmed User
            • Sep 2002
            • 3626
            #53
            Originally posted by RWF
            TO: chupacabra

            Then read this line again:

            "Suspended means that you cannot process transactions through Verotel."

            I read that as any sales, and therefore commision coming from visitors off my site, that sign up as a member, is not being counted.

            What the heck do you read this as, if not what I do?
            yes, that line means exactly what it says... "you cannot process transactions through Verotel.", period. they aren't going to do business w/ you until you clear up the chargeback issue, and they probably will not want to do business w/ you again at all after this public smear campaign.

            quit sending them any traffic, i seriously doubt they are processing any transactions from your account since they've already determined that your traffic is a risk..
            ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

              Comment

              • chupacabra
                Confirmed User
                • Sep 2002
                • 3626
                #54
                Originally posted by psyko514
                How about you verify with Verotel instead of asking GFY?

                Also, do you understand the fact that they don't want your traffic yet?
                i don't think he gets it psyko514, you wouldn't happen to have a .jpg featuring a certain SamJackson in a famous role w/ a very pertinent quote handy? it seems called for in this thread, but i cant find it..
                ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

                  Comment

                  • RWF
                    Confirmed User
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 113
                    #55
                    You're absolutely right psyko514, I should not ask GFY, as long as it contains people like you, I will receive more crap and flaming instead of professional courtesy from my fellow webmasters.

                    But that's ok, as long as 1 reply out of 10 has some usefull information, it's still worth the hassle.
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                      • psyko514
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                        • Oct 2002
                        • 22366
                        #56
                        lol... unfortunately, i don't have it

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                          • psyko514
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                            • Oct 2002
                            • 22366
                            #57
                            Originally posted by RWF
                            You're absolutely right psyko514, I should not ask GFY, as long as it contains people like you, I will receive more crap and flaming instead of professional courtesy from my fellow webmasters.

                            But that's ok, as long as 1 reply out of 10 has some usefull information, it's still worth the hassle.
                            So basically, you don't understand what chupacabra and myself are telling you?

                            I'm flaming you because you're an idiot.

                            Verotel is telling you to stop sending signups to sites they process. And you're accusing them of stealing from you. You're a fucking idiot, plain and simple.

                            I hope Verotel sues you for libel.

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                              • RWF
                                Confirmed User
                                • Mar 2004
                                • 113
                                #58
                                It might mean that they don't want my traffic, but it's not what they wrote.

                                QUOTE:

                                "we are not willing to reauthorize your account before the negative amount is paid."
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                                  • chupacabra
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Sep 2002
                                    • 3626
                                    #59
                                    Originally posted by RWF
                                    You're absolutely right psyko514, I should not ask GFY, as long as it contains people like you, I will receive more crap and flaming instead of professional courtesy from my fellow webmasters.

                                    But that's ok, as long as 1 reply out of 10 has some usefull information, it's still worth the hassle.
                                    look, this is not a flame... you've got to understand though, we don't really get what your even accusing them of! from the email that *you* presented in this thread, they aren't stealing from you in any way... if anything, its the other way around if you have an outstanding balance w/ them for multiple chargebacks that you haven't made good on... they surely feel "stolen from" if they are out money for even doing business w/ you, and you haven't paid..
                                    ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

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                                      • icedemon
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Jun 2003
                                        • 1022
                                        #60
                                        Personally, I think Verotel should rethink on how they payout on affiliates. With iBill, the paysite owner is responsible for any losses and so fourth concerning affiliates. If a affiliate goes into the negative, it comes out of the paysite owners money. After all, it's supposed to be the paysite owners money that is paying the affiliate. Verotel is just making the payments for the owner out of the paysite owners money. So any positive or negative affiliate balance should be credit or debited from the paysite owners balance.

                                        I understand their policy on this when it's applied to paysite owners. By shouldn't the negative balance be taken out of the paysite owner and let the paysite owner take care if they want to keep the affiliate or not? If the affiliate goes back into the positive, the money can be given back to the paysite owner and taken out of the affiliates.
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                                          • chupacabra
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Sep 2002
                                            • 3626
                                            #61
                                            Originally posted by RWF
                                            It might mean that they don't want my traffic, but it's not what they wrote.

                                            QUOTE:

                                            "we are not willing to reauthorize your account before the negative amount is paid."
                                            no 'might' about it, they don't want your traffic. don't stick them for fraud generated from *your* site, don't *steal* from them..!
                                            ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

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                                              • psyko514
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                                                • Oct 2002
                                                • 22366
                                                #62
                                                Originally posted by RWF
                                                It might mean that they don't want my traffic, but it's not what they wrote.

                                                QUOTE:

                                                "we are not willing to reauthorize your account before the negative amount is paid."
                                                They told you that you can't process transactions with them.

                                                If you go against what they tell you and continue to process transactions with them, why on earth should they pay you?

                                                It's not rocket science.

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                                                  • RWF
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Mar 2004
                                                    • 113
                                                    #63
                                                    I am getting sick and tired of quoting previous posts in this thread because, because a few people can't read.


                                                    "I don't claim I have been ripped off, I say that I do not like Verotel's practice of suspending affiliate webmasters, and stealing their commision, until they send a check and it clears.

                                                    Affiliates should share their part of the charge back - Yes

                                                    Suspension if account goes in negative is fine - Yes

                                                    Holding back commisions until check has been received and clears is fine - Yes

                                                    Stealing commision until check has been received and clear, now way José - Not acceptable."



                                                    If you still do not understand what this is about, then go irritate somebody elses thread.

                                                    Thanks
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                                                      • RWF
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Mar 2004
                                                        • 113
                                                        #64
                                                        TO: icedemon

                                                        Thanks for your much needed support, I sure needed it
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                                                          • psyko514
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                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                            • 22366
                                                            #65
                                                            Hey genius, you're the one who doesn't understand what this is all about. It's evident you aren't fluent in English. Perhaps you should have a friend explain their email to you.

                                                            They told you you can't process signups with them. That means you have to stop sending them signups. If you continue to send signups, you won't be paid. THAT'S NOT STEALING.

                                                            If you don't understand this, let me know and I'll draw you a picture.

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                                                              • chupacabra
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Sep 2002
                                                                • 3626
                                                                #66
                                                                Stealing commision until check has been received and clear, now way José - Not acceptable."
                                                                you haven't presented anything that shows they are doing this, nor that they've even indicated any intent to do this at all... methinks it isn't *us* that cant read.

                                                                they've told you they don't want to do business w/ you, if your still attempting to send sales to them in light of this fact then noone here is going to know what to tell you..
                                                                ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

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                                                                  • chupacabra
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Sep 2002
                                                                    • 3626
                                                                    #67
                                                                    here, this might help..

                                                                    ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

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                                                                      • RWF
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Mar 2004
                                                                        • 113
                                                                        #68
                                                                        TO: psyko514

                                                                        "They told you you can't process signups with them. That means you have to stop sending them signups. If you continue to send signups, you won't be paid. THAT'S NOT STEALING."


                                                                        You're so busy finding flaws in my grammar, that you fail to see the whole picture, and even thread.

                                                                        Sure I can easily take down the links on MY SITE, but what about sample galleries I posted on TGP sites. Some of these TGP sites will ban me if I change or take down the gallery.

                                                                        What about the people, and commision, coming from signups on those galleries, until my check is cleared? I don't get a penny!

                                                                        I call this business practice unethical, and I doubt it is legal.

                                                                        And yes for your information, English is my second out of 4 languages I speak and write.
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                                                                          • icedemon
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Jun 2003
                                                                            • 1022
                                                                            #69
                                                                            Originally posted by RWF
                                                                            TO: icedemon

                                                                            Thanks for your much needed support, I sure needed it
                                                                            I'm not sure if what I said supports you or not It just seems kinda weird that Verotel is taking the responsiblity of paying the affiliates out of their own pockets instead of the paysite owners pockets. They are also suspending affiliate accounts, when that should really be the paysite owners worry.

                                                                            If Verotel did take it out of the paysite owners pocket like it really should be, Verotel wouldn't have to worry about what the affilates are doing. The paysite owners should be responsible for the affilaites. Not Verotel.

                                                                            Just seems Verotel should of thought this out better on how the affiliate system for paysite owners should be done.
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                                                                              • chupacabra
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Sep 2002
                                                                                • 3626
                                                                                #70
                                                                                Originally posted by RWF
                                                                                TO: psyko514

                                                                                "They told you you can't process signups with them. That means you have to stop sending them signups. If you continue to send signups, you won't be paid. THAT'S NOT STEALING."


                                                                                You're so busy finding flaws in my grammar, that you fail to see the whole picture, and even thread.

                                                                                Sure I can easily take down the links on MY SITE, but what about sample galleries I posted on TGP sites. Some of these TGP sites will ban me if I change or take down the gallery.

                                                                                What about the people, and commision, coming from signups on those galleries, until my check is cleared? I don't get a penny!

                                                                                I call this business practice unethical, and I doubt it is legal.

                                                                                And yes for your information, English is my second out of 4 languages I speak and write.
                                                                                look, it isn't their problem where you submitted galleries, they've suspended your account, and it sounds rightly so... and its definitely both ethical, and legal, for any processor to make this call..
                                                                                ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

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                                                                                  • psyko514
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                                                                                    • Oct 2002
                                                                                    • 22366
                                                                                    #71
                                                                                    Originally posted by RWF
                                                                                    TO: psyko514

                                                                                    "They told you you can't process signups with them. That means you have to stop sending them signups. If you continue to send signups, you won't be paid. THAT'S NOT STEALING."


                                                                                    You're so busy finding flaws in my grammar, that you fail to see the whole picture, and even thread.

                                                                                    Sure I can easily take down the links on MY SITE, but what about sample galleries I posted on TGP sites. Some of these TGP sites will ban me if I change or take down the gallery.

                                                                                    What about the people, and commision, coming from signups on those galleries, until my check is cleared? I don't get a penny!

                                                                                    I call this business practice unethical, and I doubt it is legal.

                                                                                    And yes for your information, English is my second out of 4 languages I speak and write.
                                                                                    I'm don't care about your grammar. My problem is your comprehension. What Verotel is doing is legal and ethical.

                                                                                    Your traffic is not good. It has proven to be a risk. They're asking you to stop sending the traffic for the time being. They have every right to do that. There's absolutely nothing illegal or unethical about that.

                                                                                    The galleries are YOUR problem, not Verotel's. You have a choice.
                                                                                    - You can leave the galleries as they are and not get paid for them.
                                                                                    - You can change the galleries and risk being banned.
                                                                                    - You can contact the TGP owners and present your situation to them and see if they'll allow you to change the galleries without being banned.

                                                                                    It's not rocket science, it's only common logic. I used to think everyone was born with it.

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                                                                                      • RWF
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Mar 2004
                                                                                        • 113
                                                                                        #72
                                                                                        TO: icedemon

                                                                                        Any responses other than flaming, and patronizing on this board, is support
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                                                                                          • RWF
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Mar 2004
                                                                                            • 113
                                                                                            #73
                                                                                            Cough...
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                                                                                              • rowan
                                                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                • Mar 2002
                                                                                                • 17393
                                                                                                #74
                                                                                                Have you actually clicked on your affiliate links lately to see what happens? It's possible that Verotel is not passing the surfer through to the site, or perhaps they're blocking at the signup form. I don't see why they would suspend your account and 'steal' your referred transactions if they considered your traffic sufficiently risky to suspend you in the first place.

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                                                                                                  • RWF
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Mar 2004
                                                                                                    • 113
                                                                                                    #75
                                                                                                    Good question rowan,

                                                                                                    I just tried a few (2) and they both went to the site I am affilaite, as they where supposed to.
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                                                                                                      • seven
                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                        • Apr 2002
                                                                                                        • 2697
                                                                                                        #76
                                                                                                        Originally posted by Kimmykim
                                                                                                        psyko, you're a sweetie, but if you can find me a bank that will process high risk for anything nearly as low as 4%, even on volume, I know a few people that would probably be willing to reward you for that information...

                                                                                                        The best I've seen lately before the per trans is 5.5
                                                                                                        Even at 5.5 + 2.0 = 7.5% a 3rd party proc would profit after all expenses if they can get just couple big clients so when a proc charge 15% it's profiting bigtime
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                                                                                                          • psyko514
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                                                                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                                                                            • 22366
                                                                                                            #77
                                                                                                            Originally posted by seven

                                                                                                            Even at 5.5 + 2.0 = 7.5% a 3rd party proc would profit after all expenses if they can get just couple big clients so when a proc charge 15% it's profiting bigtime
                                                                                                            you think a 2% fee would cover all of their expenses and let them turn a profit?

                                                                                                            let's think about this.

                                                                                                            they have to pay for their offices. they have to pay to furnish their offices. they have to pay for their computers, servers, hosting, domains, software licenses, office supplies, telephones and more.

                                                                                                            they have to have a call center to handle surfer calls. they have to pay the salaries of the call center employees. they have to pay their programmerrs, their tech support, their affiliate support, their other employees, and more.

                                                                                                            add things like fines to Visa/MC, fees for accountants and lawyers, costs of throwing events and other advertising and it adds up.

                                                                                                            the bigger the clients the take on, the bigger the company has to expand and the more costs they incur.

                                                                                                            if any processor on this earth is able to take on a client processing $5 million a year, not incur any additional costs and still make a profit at a 2%, my hat goes off to them.

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                                                                                                              • freeones
                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                • Jul 2001
                                                                                                                • 3406
                                                                                                                #78
                                                                                                                Ok I'm fucking pissed off now. I just found out that my account is "suspended' already since 12 March !! I have never received an email of Verotel at all. This is so bad. I have lots and lots of sponsors. My charge back ratio's are always under 1%. This is not going to be a nice phone call tomorrow. !!

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                                                                                                                  • RWF
                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                    • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                    • 113
                                                                                                                    #79
                                                                                                                    Welcome in the camp freeones

                                                                                                                    Even though we are competitors, I feel for you.

                                                                                                                    Count me in for a class-action lawsuit against Verotel
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                                                                                                                      • psyko514
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                                                                                                                        • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                        • 22366
                                                                                                                        #80
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by RWF
                                                                                                                        Welcome in the camp freeones

                                                                                                                        Even though we are competitors, I feel for you.

                                                                                                                        Count me in for a class-action lawsuit against Verotel

                                                                                                                        class action lawsuit for what? cancelling your account and telling you to stop sending shitty chargeback traffic?

                                                                                                                        lmao

                                                                                                                        good luck finding a lawyer, hotshot!

                                                                                                                        keep us update on this upcoming lawsuit.

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                                                                                                                          • RWF
                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                            • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                            • 113
                                                                                                                            #81
                                                                                                                            psyko514:

                                                                                                                            Here we go again, back to the discussion of how much control I actually have on the traffic.

                                                                                                                            It just happens to be that I run a review site, that made a good review of the site where the chargebacks occured.

                                                                                                                            So you say that I send shitty traffic?

                                                                                                                            Comeone give me a break! You never know when an asshole decides to do a chargeback!
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                                                                                                                              • psyko514
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                                                                                                                                • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                • 22366
                                                                                                                                #82
                                                                                                                                Originally posted by RWF
                                                                                                                                psyko514:

                                                                                                                                Here we go again, back to the discussion of how much control I actually have on the traffic.

                                                                                                                                It just happens to be that I run a review site, that made a good review of the site where the chargebacks occured.

                                                                                                                                So you say that I send shitty traffic?

                                                                                                                                Comeone give me a break! You never know when an asshole decides to do a chargeback!
                                                                                                                                unfortunately, Verotel doesn't see it that way. and they have every right to terminate your account if the traffic you send charges back too often. there's nothing wrong or shady or illegal about that.

                                                                                                                                as a webmaster, you control the traffic you send and where you send it. you have a responsibility when it comes to choosing where you send the traffic. you said it yourself that the sites you sent it to were small, crummy sites. so the surfers aren't charging back because they're assholes. they're charging back because they were ripped off.

                                                                                                                                since you chose to send the traffic against your better judgement, verotel holds you responsible. those are their terms and conditions and you agreed to them by signing up for a verotel program.

                                                                                                                                if you really, really think you have a legal case against them, i strongly suggest you discuss your case with a lawyer instead of continuing to libel them on GFY.

                                                                                                                                i don't know where you live, but right now, they have a pretty strong case of libel against you. and it's a lot stronger than your fraud/theft allegations.

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                                                                                                                                  • stev0
                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                    • Aug 2003
                                                                                                                                    • 6801
                                                                                                                                    #83
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by XxXotic
                                                                                                                                    for kicking someone out who's chargebacks are more then his last 3 positive checks?

                                                                                                                                    yes, i'd kick your ass out too, obviously something isn't right if your chargebacks are greater then the amount you've brought in the last 3 periods
                                                                                                                                    No kidding.. that's alot of chargebacks.

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                                                                                                                                      • RWF
                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                        • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                        • 113
                                                                                                                                        #84
                                                                                                                                        psyko514:

                                                                                                                                        I give up! You have proven countless times that you do NOT have the abillity to read.

                                                                                                                                        1) I NEVER wrote that my account terminated, it's suspended. And they have written that I am not going to get any commision until I send them a check, meaning they will keep (steal) my commision until then.

                                                                                                                                        2) I said that the sites I linked to was small, not piece of shit sites. Small does not mean that they are a scam or crummy. I run a review site, and screen all sites I link to.

                                                                                                                                        3) The chargeback actually came from a site I had reviewed earlier, and had since moved from Verotel to IBill. Unfortunately some chargebacks came from old signups, where members had signed up for long memberships, like 6 and 12 months. So these commisions where high, and so where the chargebacks. And since this site had now moved to a different billing company, I did not have the income from that site anymore, and only had the small Verotel sites with less income. Which explains why my site went in negative.

                                                                                                                                        4) I said I would join a lawsuit, not start one! Geez get some fucking glasses!!!

                                                                                                                                        5) Why am I even wasting time replying to you? Fuck Off Asshole!
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                                                                                                                                          • psyko514
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                                                                                                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                            • 22366
                                                                                                                                            #85

                                                                                                                                            maybe if i make my text bigger, you'll understand it?

                                                                                                                                            - you sent them traffic.
                                                                                                                                            - the traffic you sent charged back.
                                                                                                                                            - they suspended your account.
                                                                                                                                            - they told you cannot process transactions through them while suspended.

                                                                                                                                            if you continue to attempt to process transactions for them, they're not stealing anything from you.

                                                                                                                                            can someone else explain this to him, because i give up.

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                                                                                                                                              • chupacabra
                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                • Sep 2002
                                                                                                                                                • 3626
                                                                                                                                                #86
                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by psyko514

                                                                                                                                                maybe if i make my text bigger, you'll understand it?

                                                                                                                                                - you sent them traffic.
                                                                                                                                                - the traffic you sent charged back.
                                                                                                                                                - they suspended your account.
                                                                                                                                                - they told you cannot process transactions through them while suspended.

                                                                                                                                                if you continue to attempt to process transactions for them, they're not stealing anything from you.

                                                                                                                                                can someone else explain this to him, because i give up.
                                                                                                                                                i gave up days ago, friend..
                                                                                                                                                ...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..

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                                                                                                                                                  • RWF
                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                    • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                                    • 113
                                                                                                                                                    #87
                                                                                                                                                    psyko514

                                                                                                                                                    Thanks for keeping this thread alive

                                                                                                                                                    I understand what is going on, but I think the business practice is unacceptable.
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                                                                                                                                                      • RWF
                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                        • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                                        • 113
                                                                                                                                                        #88
                                                                                                                                                        Guys I know we have our differences, but can we at least agree on one thing? Which is we do not agree on anything!

                                                                                                                                                        And please don't give up, now that the mighty Lensman have disabled searching, I need you guys to disagree with me, to keep the post alive, so I don't have to scroll through countless pages to my beloved Verotel post

                                                                                                                                                        Have a good evening anyways...Off for some chow and a flick, wish it was a chick though!
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                                                                                                                                                          • psyko514
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                                                                                                                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                                            • 22366
                                                                                                                                                            #89
                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by RWF
                                                                                                                                                            Guys I know we have our differences, but can we at least agree on one thing? Which is we do not agree on anything!
                                                                                                                                                            Don't get me wrong, I <b>somewhat</b> agree with you on the fact that the policy sucks. However, it's <b>far</b> from being theft or even remotely illegal.

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                                                                                                                                                              • RWF
                                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                                                                • 113
                                                                                                                                                                #90
                                                                                                                                                                psyko514:

                                                                                                                                                                Yeah you're right is not exactly theft, or unfortunately not even illegal, but it is definately not the way I would conduct a business.
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                                                                                                                                                                  • seven
                                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                    • Apr 2002
                                                                                                                                                                    • 2697
                                                                                                                                                                    #91
                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by psyko514
                                                                                                                                                                    they have to pay for their offices. they have to pay to furnish their offices. they have to pay for their computers, servers, hosting, domains, software licenses, office supplies, telephones and more......
                                                                                                                                                                    Nawh.. I have no such expenses so no clue what the expenses behind running businesses are like LOL.
                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by psyko514
                                                                                                                                                                    you think a 2% fee would cover all of their expenses and let them turn a profit?
                                                                                                                                                                    Yep! What I'm saying.. just didn't mean 2% of a $30 transaction that's all
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