"Under God" out of Pledge of Allegiance?

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  • TheMaster
    Confirmed User
    • Nov 2003
    • 2734
    #1

    "Under God" out of Pledge of Allegiance?

    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...ws/8268421.htm

    the supreme court is to rule about the fact, to take out the words "under god" out of "one nation under god"
    the god part was added to the pledge in 1954

    I say yes, especially if all people have/may recite the Pledge of Allegiance. In democracy you can not make school children pledge on a deity, if they don't believe in it.
    60
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    • TheMaster
      Confirmed User
      • Nov 2003
      • 2734
      #2
      wow, no born again christian wishing me to hell

        Comment

        • xenophobic
          Confirmed User
          • Mar 2004
          • 874
          #3
          what about the actual constitution, it contains multiple references to god, let's tear that up too, and then remove "in god we trust" from the dollar too, let's do a history spring clean!

          The separation of church and state was to stop the sort of stuff that went on in England, like for example catholics were put to death by order of the King, not so the word "God" could be removed from everything!
          Last edited by xenophobic; 03-24-2004, 07:10 PM.

            Comment

            • TheMaster
              Confirmed User
              • Nov 2003
              • 2734
              #4
              Originally posted by xenophobic
              what about the actual constitution, it contains multiple references to god, let's tear that up too, and then remove "in god we trust" from the dollar too, let's do a history spring clean!

              The separation of church and state was to stop the sort of stuff that went on in England, like for example catholics were put to death by order of the King, not so the word "God" could be removed from everything!
              why not? when mistakes have been made, you just fix them!

              no, when you say seperation, there really should be seperation between state and church, so everyone is included

              other countries have done so, follow!! Give the right example. Religion divides people, don't start that seperation at such an early state, when immigrants have to pledge to a god, theydon't recognize as being a fact

                Comment

                • TheMaster
                  Confirmed User
                  • Nov 2003
                  • 2734
                  #5
                  Originally posted by xenophobic

                  The separation of church and state was to stop the sort of stuff that went on in England, like for example catholics were put to death by order of the King, not so the word "God" could be removed from everything!
                  btw that stuff was going on all over Europe, but there protestants and jews were killed. and ... hey wait that stupid killing is still going on all over the world

                  how come that although all those deities are peacefull, they have more war/violence as a result then peace?

                    Comment

                    • The Truth Hurts
                      Zph7YXfjMhg
                      • Nov 2002
                      • 15770
                      #6
                      Originally posted by TheMaster

                      there really should be seperation between state and church
                      says who?

                        Comment

                        • TheMaster
                          Confirmed User
                          • Nov 2003
                          • 2734
                          #7
                          Originally posted by The Truth Hurts


                          says who?
                          oh, I don't know, the basic principles on which western democracies are built


                          man, I should stop responding on these stupid remarks

                            Comment

                            • Easton
                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 9825
                              #8
                              Originally posted by TheMaster
                              In democracy you can not make school children pledge on a deity, if they don't believe in it.
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                                Comment

                                • 12clicks
                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                  • Jan 2001
                                  • 19814
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by TheMaster


                                  oh, I don't know, the basic principles on which western democracies are built


                                  man, I should stop responding on these stupid remarks
                                  they're not stupid remarks. they're just over your head so
                                  I'll answer for you.
                                  The people that said there should be no state supported religion (not that there should be a seperation of chuch and state) were the same people who sprinkled referances to god through out our other founding documents.

                                  admitting that kinda makes your argument look silly though, so you'll dodge this fact.
                                  I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

                                    Comment

                                    • <IMX>
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Jun 2002
                                      • 2728
                                      #10
                                      I agree, it is tough to separate the idea of "God" from the United States...whether you like it or not, it is a historically protestant in origin.

                                      "City on a hill" ;) etc.

                                      However, in this particular case the Eisenhower administration added "Under God," to exaggerate the difference between the largely protestant United States and the godless Soviet communists.

                                      The phrase was added to highlight the differences, and didn't have much to do with an historical reference like those present in the consitution. I've forgotten what the original words were.

                                      Anyway it is going to be interesting litmus test of the current court.

                                      Originally posted by The Truth Hurts


                                      says who?
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                                        Comment

                                        • TheMaster
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Nov 2003
                                          • 2734
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by 12clicks


                                          they're not stupid remarks. they're just over your head so
                                          I'll answer for you.
                                          The people that said there should be no state supported religion (not that there should be a seperation of chuch and state) were the same people who sprinkled referances to god through out our other founding documents.

                                          admitting that kinda makes your argument look silly though, so you'll dodge this fact.
                                          again: then fix it

                                          btw under god was only added in 1954 to the pledge

                                            Comment

                                            • TheMaster
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Nov 2003
                                              • 2734
                                              #12
                                              Originally posted by <IMX>
                                              I agree, it is tough to separate the idea of "God" from the United States...whether you like it or not, it is a historically protestant in origin.
                                              how is it now?

                                                Comment

                                                • 12clicks
                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                  • Jan 2001
                                                  • 19814
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by TheMaster


                                                  again: then fix it

                                                  btw under god was only added in 1954 to the pledge
                                                  again: there's nothing wrong.
                                                  you morons just don't get the concept of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

                                                  It does not mean "Congress shall never say or write the word God"

                                                  I think a fair argument could be made that pretending atheism is a religion violates the first amendment by establishing a religion that is then used to attack the free exercise of the rest of the countries religion.

                                                  The dopey atheist pushing this case should be taken out back and beaten for being a trouble maker.
                                                  I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • beergood
                                                      Confirmed User
                                                      • Jun 2003
                                                      • 2918
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by TheMaster
                                                      http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...ws/8268421.htm

                                                      the supreme court is to rule about the fact, to take out the words "under god" out of "one nation under god"
                                                      the god part was added to the pledge in 1954

                                                      I say yes, especially if all people have/may recite the Pledge of Allegiance. In democracy you can not make school children pledge on a deity, if they don't believe in it.
                                                      Really, who gives a fuck. If you want to say "under god" then do it and if not then don't.

                                                      People are really too picky about this sort of thing now days. We shouldn't have to re-vamp all our old laws & documents to make them reader friendly for everyone.

                                                      Lets just accept that they were written in a different age by a different type of people and move on.

                                                      Don't we have bigger things to worry about? Its not like we're hanging atheist and Muslims in the streets of the US right now because some of our legal documents use the words "under god"
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                                                        Comment

                                                        • eroswebmaster
                                                          March 1st, 2003
                                                          • Jul 2001
                                                          • 20295
                                                          #15
                                                          I've already posted about this before and my answer is just have 2 versions.

                                                          1 is secular the other 2 can be a fill in the deiety version...so kids can input whatever God/Gods etc they do worship.

                                                          Answer solved.

                                                          If a child chooses to say Under God he should have that choice...free speech protects religions as much as it protects adult content.
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                                                            Comment

                                                            • TheMaster
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Nov 2003
                                                              • 2734
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by eroswebmaster
                                                              I've already posted about this before and my answer is just have 2 versions.

                                                              1 is secular the other 2 can be a fill in the deiety version...so kids can input whatever God/Gods etc they do worship.

                                                              Answer solved.

                                                              If a child chooses to say Under God he should have that choice...free speech protects religions as much as it protects adult content.

                                                              my problem was that kids have to say that speach (something that is probably totally weird for a lot of countries where people don't show that "patriotism" day in day out)

                                                              damn, don't think I've ever saluted the flag
                                                              but if you really insist on doing this, then make sure it covers americans and not only christian americans

                                                                Comment

                                                                • CamChicks
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Sep 2003
                                                                  • 1552
                                                                  #17
                                                                  The problem with the Pledge and "Under God" is that it is not presented as optional.

                                                                  Some schools will punish you if you don't say it.
                                                                  This is illegal, but they assume teenagers aren't educated enough to know that.
                                                                  (oh, the irony)

                                                                  I was sent to the principles office and threatened with suspension for refusing to participate.

                                                                  He sternly lectured me with some patriotic "veterans who have died" talking points, etc. and I told him that if the school simply asked us to stand to honor those who died defending freedom I would not object to that. But that's not what the pledge says. It says "I pledge my allegiance to ... one nation under god". And that's insane nonsense.

                                                                  It took my counter-threat of contacting the ACLU to reverse their policy.

                                                                  camchicks.com

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • TheMaster
                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                      • Nov 2003
                                                                      • 2734
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by CamChicks
                                                                      The problem with the Pledge and "Under God" is that it is not presented as optional.

                                                                      Some schools will punish you if you don't say it.
                                                                      This is illegal, but they assume teenagers aren't educated enough to know that.
                                                                      (oh, the irony)

                                                                      I was sent to the principles office and threatened with suspension for refusing to participate.

                                                                      He sternly lectured me with some patriotic "veterans who have died" talking points, etc. and I told him that if the school simply asked us to stand to honor those who died defending freedom I would not object to that. But that's not what the pledge says. It says "I pledge my allegiance to ... one nation under god". And that's insane nonsense.

                                                                      It took my counter-threat of contacting the ACLU to reverse their policy.


                                                                      see, that line has real life consequences which in no way can be seen as democratic or lawfull

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • StacyCat
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • May 2002
                                                                          • 1167
                                                                          #19
                                                                          well, 1) it wasnt originally in the pledge, it was added later.

                                                                          2) its not really optional. I got in so much trouble with my teachers about not saying the pledge, and not standing up. Once I pointed out that it was my right not to do it, they didnt threaten any other actions against me. But, it is very hard for most teenagers to realize that they can do that, and damn near impossible for anyone younger than that age to do something about it.

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • TheMaster
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Nov 2003
                                                                              • 2734
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by StacyCat
                                                                              well, 1) it wasnt originally in the pledge, it was added later.

                                                                              2) its not really optional. I got in so much trouble with my teachers about not saying the pledge, and not standing up. Once I pointed out that it was my right not to do it, they didnt threaten any other actions against me. But, it is very hard for most teenagers to realize that they can do that, and damn near impossible for anyone younger than that age to do something about it.
                                                                              thanks for proving my point

                                                                              come on 12clicks, do you say that these things are just?

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • Mikey_219Inc
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • Jun 2003
                                                                                  • 1876
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  they should not only take it out, they should stop the indoctrination of children in schools ... teach them something that will help them get by in this insane fucking world instead of nationalist propaganda.

                                                                                  "i pledge allegiance to the flag" ... this is mindless bullshit. its fucking cloth - i respect PART of what it represents, (those who have died defending our country for example), but otherwise this is just brainwashing nationalistic crap. "liberty and justice" ... i dont know what part of america they are talking about, but we still got a ways to go on that part.

                                                                                  Let him who hath understanding reckon the WISDOM of the TOOF!

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Mikey_219Inc
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Jun 2003
                                                                                      • 1876
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      oh yea - religion and state - this is fucking important. im so sick of these "choose life" license plates written in crayon kiddy font. If you think the religious right/moral majority wouldnt like to take half of your freedoms away from you, think again. give them too much rope and youll be in jail for fucking your wife in the ass.

                                                                                      these fuckers are fanatics and should NOT be given any political power - and PLEASE SOMEONE MAKE THESE FUCKERS START PAYING TAXES!!!!! GOD DAMMIT!

                                                                                      religion is a business. pay fucking tax you sheep.

                                                                                      Let him who hath understanding reckon the WISDOM of the TOOF!

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • TheMaster
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Nov 2003
                                                                                          • 2734
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by Mikey_219Inc
                                                                                          oh yea - religion and state - this is fucking important. im so sick of these "choose life" license plates written in crayon kiddy font. If you think the religious right/moral majority wouldnt like to take half of your freedoms away from you, think again. give them too much rope and youll be in jail for fucking your wife in the ass.

                                                                                          these fuckers are fanatics and should NOT be given any political power - and PLEASE SOMEONE MAKE THESE FUCKERS START PAYING TAXES!!!!! GOD DAMMIT!

                                                                                          religion is a business. pay fucking tax you sheep.
                                                                                          spread the word brother

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • 12clicks
                                                                                              Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                              • Jan 2001
                                                                                              • 19814
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by TheMaster


                                                                                              thanks for proving my point

                                                                                              come on 12clicks, do you say that these things are just?
                                                                                              yes halfwhit, #1 is irrelevant and so is #2
                                                                                              I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • MetaMan
                                                                                                  I AM WEB 2.0
                                                                                                  • Jan 2003
                                                                                                  • 28682
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  keep it the way it is, i cannot belive people even waste time and tax payers money to change something so simple. if u dont like the word God, fuck you. if you are a do gooder, Fuck you.

                                                                                                  the world is filled with to many idiots who spend half of the year working and then the other half claiming unemployment. and these are the types of idiots who bring up changes that cost the working man $.

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • MrJackMeHoff
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • Mar 2004
                                                                                                      • 4569
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      I killed jesus just to see him bleed on his pulpus throne.

                                                                                                      I am evil, Im the deicide and I killed the lord.

                                                                                                      No more reason, I'll kill the world in another form.

                                                                                                      Err somethin..

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • TheMaster
                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                          • Nov 2003
                                                                                                          • 2734
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by MetaMan
                                                                                                          keep it the way it is, i cannot belive people even waste time and tax payers money to change something so simple. if u dont like the word God, fuck you. if you are a do gooder, Fuck you.
                                                                                                          ??? okay, so you say that these things are okay, making people do that are unconstitutional? You would be a great dictator

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • The Truth Hurts
                                                                                                              Zph7YXfjMhg
                                                                                                              • Nov 2002
                                                                                                              • 15770
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              i vote keep it the fucking way it is ans has been for quite some time now..... one hundred and ninety million times.

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • HeebyJeeby
                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                  • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                  • 161
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  They can make claims that your kids don't have to say it if they don't want, but what could possibly cause more peer pressure than 30 classmates saying it while you don't? Especially when you're young.

                                                                                                                  Personally, I think all references to God should be removed from ALL government documents. How could those documents possibly represent me fairly if I don't believe in God?

                                                                                                                  Some people claim that the references hurt nobody and therefore should just remain. Well, any document that infers that a sizable portion of our country is wrong in their beliefs needs to be changed.
                                                                                                                  List your fetish sites at http://www.fetishnetwork.net/.

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • HeebyJeeby
                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                      • Mar 2004
                                                                                                                      • 161
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by MetaMan
                                                                                                                      keep it the way it is, i cannot belive people even waste time and tax payers money to change something so simple. if u dont like the word God, fuck you. if you are a do gooder, Fuck you.

                                                                                                                      the world is filled with to many idiots who spend half of the year working and then the other half claiming unemployment. and these are the types of idiots who bring up changes that cost the working man $.
                                                                                                                      The religious right wing costs the working man a whole lot more by trying to constantly pass laws to make everything they find objectionable illegal.
                                                                                                                      List your fetish sites at http://www.fetishnetwork.net/.

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • raceman
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                          • 1064
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          There is no "GOD" there is just "Mother Earth"


                                                                                                                          "ILLEGITIMIS NON CARBORUNDUM" <-- "DON'T LET THE BASTARDS GRIND YOU DOWN"

                                                                                                                          General Joe Stiwell

                                                                                                                          ICQ: 213-684-158

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