Should chargebacks be applied against your affiliate account - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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notjoe

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#1

Should chargebacks be applied against your affiliate account

03-24-2004, 02:46 AM

So, lets say you send some signups to a sponsor and lets say some of them get CB'd.

What are your views on Sponsors who eat that?

What are your views on Sponsors who take back the $ they paid out on the CB'd transaction?
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flashfire

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#2

03-24-2004, 02:55 AM

I like sponsers that eat....
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johnbosh

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#3

03-24-2004, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by flashfire
I like sponsers that eat....

jup their problem
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#4

03-24-2004, 02:59 AM

I don't like the fact that I get hit with occasional chargebacks, but then again, the company would be hit with fraud left and right if they ate it all. If they ate all chargebacks, who's to stop a webmaster from charging back hundreds of accounts in 1 way or another, while pocketing all of the earnings?

Your job is to send the signups and their job is to keep the members. If the surfer gets off once and decided to contest the charge, it's generally not the program's fault. Blame it on the asshat who's worried about his wife seeing a questionable charge on their CC acct.
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notjoe

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#5

03-24-2004, 03:02 AM

Processors pass on the CB back to the merchant, it would only make sense to pass that back onto the Affiliate or so i would think.

I think more honest programs would pass the CB back onto the affiliate as chances are they're not shaving and thus dont have the extra cash to eat the CBS.
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High Quality

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#6

03-24-2004, 03:05 AM

Theres lots of affiliates who promote on illegal sites like password sites etc. Theres no way I could make a profit not passing CB fees onto these affiliates....

So, I'm for this...

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VirtuMike

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#7

03-24-2004, 03:18 AM

We are both sponsors and affiliates. I am a firm believer that the affiliate is responsible for the chargebacks.

The affiliate should look at the tours and see what is promised, then look in the members areas to see if the promises are delivered. He then formulates his marketing plan based on that site's unique selling proposition. The affiliate has to make sure that nobody is deceiving that surfer at any point.

And if the affiliate sends traffic he knows to be questionable, he should be willing to take the hit on bad transactions.

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Major (Tom)

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#8

03-24-2004, 03:24 AM

Look at it this way. What if an affiliate is just pumping galleries of 3x20 second RLD clips or Evil clips that are already cut to save the time it takes to rip the sponsors clips. Now the member joins, and that content isnt in the members area.. My guess is it's a charge back. Why should my program eat it? Or what about check fraud? Check chargebacks are common. If a program eats the charge back something just doesnt make sense. And if they do eat charge backs, thats just a recipie for some eastern eurpoean webmaster to run 30 stolen cards through his affiliate link. I think it's in the best interest of the industry to dissuade chargebacks at all costs. Paying webmasters for chargebacks is definatley not going to do that.

just my opinion. I'm not claiming to have all the answers.
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NickB.

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#9

03-24-2004, 03:31 AM

it all depends on the account right? if you have more than 2% charge backs on your account......the webmaster should be charged for that!
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hova

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#10

03-24-2004, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by VirtuMike
We are both sponsors and affiliates. I am a firm believer that the affiliate is responsible for the chargebacks.

The affiliate should look at the tours and see what is promised, then look in the members areas to see if the promises are delivered. He then formulates his marketing plan based on that site's unique selling proposition. The affiliate has to make sure that nobody is deceiving that surfer at any point.

And if the affiliate sends traffic he knows to be questionable, he should be willing to take the hit on bad transactions.

I am with you here, but some people told me that this asks to much from the affiliate

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notjoe

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#11

03-24-2004, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by hova

I am with you here, but some people told me that this asks to much from the affiliate

Sure it may hurt the affiliate but if the sponsor eats the cost then it'll hurt them a lot more so, esp. if they're running their program above the board
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#12

03-24-2004, 09:10 AM

"Should chargebacks be applied against your affiliate account?"
No.

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Honeyslut

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#13

03-24-2004, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by VirtuMike
We are both sponsors and affiliates. I am a firm believer that the affiliate is responsible for the chargebacks.

The affiliate should look at the tours and see what is promised, then look in the members areas to see if the promises are delivered. He then formulates his marketing plan based on that site's unique selling proposition. The affiliate has to make sure that nobody is deceiving that surfer at any point.

And if the affiliate sends traffic he knows to be questionable, he should be willing to take the hit on bad transactions.

Good post ! Affiliates are so different from 4 years ago when I started in this biz. Everything has to be on a silver spoon.

Heck , 4 years ago I never dreamed of FREE content and mega hosted galleries. I just made and bought everything.

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cool1

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#14

03-24-2004, 09:21 AM

I think it should be a 50/50 thing. Affiliate pays half, the sponsor pays half
After all it is hard to know why the customer charged back.
Was it the affiliates fault or the sponsors, hard to tell sometimes.
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mardigras

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#15

03-24-2004, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by Honeyslut

Good post ! Affiliates are so different from 4 years ago when I started in this biz. Everything has to be on a silver spoon.

Heck , 4 years ago I never dreamed of FREE content and mega hosted galleries. I just made and bought everything.

Traffic is quite different from 4 years ago. 4 years ago just about any traffic could make $$$, today decent traffic is gold and the competition for it high and people aren't going to just toss it to unproductive or subpar programs so you have to "get their attention".

.
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Giorgio_Xo

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#16

03-24-2004, 09:57 AM

The individual chargeback shouldn't be assessed to the referring webmaster instead the expected percentage of fees by a part of the normal payout price.

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goBigtime

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#17

03-24-2004, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by notjoe
So, lets say you send some signups to a sponsor and lets say some of them get CB'd.

What are your views on Sponsors who eat that?

What are your views on Sponsors who take back the $ they paid out on the CB'd transaction?

If it's a "partnership" then the CB's should definitely be shared.
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4Pics

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#18

03-24-2004, 10:02 AM

in pps it should not be deducted, in partnership it should be shared.

What's to stop someone from applying 1% chargebacks to affiliates to raise profits? It's another form of a shave. It isn't like the affiliate gets a report of their cb's and a copy of the letter.

They also have cross-sells or upsells or 1 click mailers they made money on the guy that I dont get paid on.
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magicmike

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#19

03-24-2004, 10:08 AM

Well for a PPS program I say no.

If a wm has a really high cb percentage I'd bet 95% of companies will cut that wm and thats what it comes down to.

Before all the new visa / mc regs. a cb is no different than a refund. Obviously now people need to stay below 1% and if an affiliate is constantly way over thats too big a risk to take.

At the same time if you are charging your regular wm's for cb's then you should be charging them for refunds as well.

We don't do it anyways on pps, and at the same time we don't pay on fraud. So if its a case of fraud thats a whole different story.

Its built in to partnership programs for the most part already at the billing company level.

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EZRhino

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#20

03-24-2004, 10:10 AM

I would say if a affiliate of mine does have a few peices of fraud here and there within reason I will eat it no problem. But if its on going, consistent and cost vs reward doesnt add up in my favor, I'm not going to pay for it and I shouldnt be expected to.
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#21

03-24-2004, 10:42 AM

I think it should be on a case by case basis, based upon an affiliates individual performance

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louiethenose

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#22

03-25-2004, 10:56 AM

No fucking way.... Our job is to bring the surfer to the table. It is the sponsors job to make him eat, If he throws it up to fucking bad. Also i laughed at "well if it is a partnership" What fucking partnership? do you file a joint return? You are out of your fucking mind. NO FUCKING WAY. They are making monies in many different directions then the signup. They can afford it SO yes I say to bad they need to eat it not the affiliate. CRACKER!
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#23

03-25-2004, 11:07 AM

personally I would't mind, its such small percentage that doesn't worry me.
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#24

03-25-2004, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
personally I would't mind, its such small percentage that doesn't worry me.

The people against it are the ones with high percentages of fraud mysteriously coming from their traffic....
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LA Mike

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#25

03-25-2004, 11:57 AM

In order to keep payouts high I can definately see in the future that the chargebacks could be pushed to the affiliate. Or the sponsors can continue paying then and lower payouts. Things are definately tighter these days
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#26

03-25-2004, 12:03 PM

Affiliates want it all and more. Let them take responsibility for there traffic.

Whole new idea for you guys to implement now...
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#27

03-26-2004, 02:31 AM

We charge our affiliates only for chargebacks, but we pay from our own pocket for ALL refunds.
Because the quality of our products and delivery is our baby and we take care about it very well

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#28

03-26-2004, 04:29 AM

I think its perfectly acceptable if a chargeback occurs that the affiliate takes it. You are getting credited for a sale. If it is charged back....it is no longer a sale.
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#29

03-26-2004, 04:31 AM

the sponsors that dont charge back are probably shaving.

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Nathan

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#30

03-26-2004, 04:41 AM

Hi,

in my oppinion Partnership Programs should deduct the chargeback/refund at the same %-age as they give for joins and rebills. And why should they not? If you want a Partnership, then you gotta be willing to take the risk, you expect to get all rebills also!

On the other side, per signup programs should eat the chargebacks/refunds, the user expects $$ per signup and thats it.

I think the partnership program system is the standard currently, or am I mistaken there? For per signup program, I only know a few that remove the sale when a chargeback occures, but I also know from our clients that some want to remove the sale or at least to deduct a specific amount for a chargeback that occures.

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#31

03-26-2004, 04:59 AM

Welcome to the new adult internet. Visa are committed to getting us to reduce Charge Backs, so affiliates will have to either do their job and make sure their traffic is solid or they will go.

And it is not just an affiliates job to deliver clicks, it's his job to deliver people who are likely to buy something.

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RWF

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#32

03-26-2004, 05:13 AM

"Should chargebacks be applied against your affiliate account?"

Absolutely, my commision part of the chargeback that is!

This is only fair and square.

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Pun

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#33

03-26-2004, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by charly

And it is not just an affiliates job to deliver clicks, it's his job to deliver people who are likely to buy something.

Bullshit. It's our job (affiliate) to deliver you prospective clients. It's your job (site owner) to sell them. Whether or not the potenial client wanted to buy or not prior to getting to your site really isn't my responsibility once I've left him/her on your doorstep.

Sure, my ratios may be complete ass if I'm sending mortgage traffic to a porn site, but that's a risk I take delivering traffic there, and that's a risk I'm willing to accept in doing so.

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taboo_gal

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#34

03-26-2004, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by 4Pics
It isn't like the affiliate gets a report of their cb's and a copy of the letter.

They should at least get an email. I just advised a sponsor that if he received a chargeback, he should delete the order, which automatically removes commission from the affiliate. I then told him to be sure to email the affiliate explaining what happened to the order and the resulting commissions. This way the affiliate can not (should not) be able to say they were shaved or defrauded in some way. I also told him to keep a sharp eye on all chargebacks and the referring affiliates because if their cb's are frequent, they should be removed and sent an email notice as to why.

If the affiliate is to request proof of the chargeback, it should certainly be given. This way you know why the surfer chargedback; at least their "legalese" of "my wife found the cc statement".

As for PPS or Partnership...its all the same to me....a chargeback is a chargeback and an affiliate should not get paid on that item...period.

I think VirtuMike's post hit the nail on the head. I totally agree.

Good thread by the way!
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