If bush is re-elected the US will go to war with china.

100 who will the war.

Already on to him thanks.

Easier to joke ...

yeah but there is a 99% that bush will not be re-elected again. look at all the trouble that he has started

Oh come on now..........we have come so far in this thread. Lets not start spouting bullshit facts and figures again.

Sorry I assumed that Webby was in the US. There is no excuse for advocating the assination of the President.

I'm not anti American, I'm pro American. Just anti Bush. But you see any criticism as anti American which supports my previous post. Being President does not mean you cannot make mistakes, for which you can be criticised on.

If only it was 99%.

Too many voters see the invasion of Iraq as a good thing. How many US citizens still believe in WMDs in Iraq?

Sounds like a load of shit, you are as anti-american as they come.

Not all true Charly.

I don't see your posts in this thread as anti american (I have not followed you other posts as I have WEBBY).

In this thread you have presented yourself as anti Bush which though I disagree with your views 100% I can respect them.

That is what this country is all about. Freedom to disagree and still be cool in the end. And yes that is what we (Americans) believe we are fighting for right now. You may not agree with the policies of our government, but in the end people are just doing what they think is the best and right thing for our country.

And as you said "time will tell if Bush has made the right choices"

Iam betting her has.

Good...then we Americans can expect your...almost...daily bashing of American policy...and internal decisions made by our Congress...to cease if Senator Kerry becomes President?

BTW...Clueless...legitimate criticism is different than bashing.

I am an American citizen that believes 100% in WMD's

Believe they pursued them. They had them. Then got them out of country and now we have to worry about who has them now.

I am not one that is naive enough to believe that lunatic did not want to do as he promised on MANY occasions.........inflict mass cassualties on America and its allies. He said it! i believe him. We kicked his ass so that he can't fullfill his promise.

I have family who live in the US, I honeymooned twice in the US, I derive 80% of my income from the US, I own property in the US, I have a US bank account and SSN.

I guess that qualifies me as anti American. As I stated it's easy to accuse critics of being anti American to dismiss what they say. However if I was anti American does that make my statements less true?

For the record I would love to live in the US, unfortunately I could not make a living there. US models would drive me around the bend.

OK... Huge big surprise. Half the country likes Bush, the other half doesn't.


But remember your history before you come down too hard on Bush.....


FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us, Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

Lyndon Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 a year.


Carry on...

Wow! That was impressive. Well done.

57% feel war was the right decision one year later, despite not finding WMDs in country.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...2131611&EDATE=

Toss up who to believe, Saddam, Blair, Bush or Blix.

In my opinion Saddam was bluffing, he did have the weapons. Just not recently. But if his neighbors had known how ineffectual his army was they might of invaded. The man was playing a big con game to remain in power.

He did not invade a country that never attacked him, when did Iraq attack the US? Even Bush has not come out with that statement. Plus I do not think the people with relatives who died in Bali or Madrid think al-Qaida is crushed.

Dont back-peddle now. Stand up for what you beleive.

On a side note,

I didnt need you to tell me American money pays your bills you fucking senile old koot, I already knew that.

Come on now Charly...the man said "crippled" not crushed. Big difference there.

No claim that we have gotten ride of AlQaida, but only a fool would argue we haven't taken HUGE strides to keep them on the run. The mere fact that there hasn't been an attack in this country since 9/11 is HUGE proof that this regime is doing a stand up job to try and protect its people.

And "toss up who to believe, Sadam, Blair, or Bush........"

Aaaaa yeah I think I will take...............sane heads of state for $1000 Alex.

I believe if you read it again...

that says "crippled", not crushed al-Qaida. Right?

and that does NOT say Iraq attacted the US. Does it?


but the points remain the same.

Re-read his post Cluless...well don't bother...you would just remain clueless.

charly:

Totally agree!!!

The irony is I am amazed at the stupidity of some who consider everything else but the facts and have this "sensitivity" to think others are all "US haters" and BS like that. It flies in the face of basic common sense.

I despise this current regime in the US - it is due for regime change for the safety of the US and the world right now. But that has absolutely zero to do with "hating America". I don't "hate" any country - that idea is even stupid :-)

Re the "asking questions of leaders" - I agree this is elementary stuff, but tis not happening. The leadership is unaccountable and has a track record of deception and lying. Many issues recently were more than enough to impeach the leaders of many other countries. It is amazing this level of propaganda/lying has become "acceptable". It's not even hidden, but totally transparent :-)

One major difference, - and I'm sure this must the culture thing, (call it "patriotism" or whatever), is that almost the rest of the world can see the problems within the US - forgetting the current Admin lies in foreign policy. This flies in the face with, looks like 50% of the US population, who don't seem to see anything wrong. Tho is it obvious that many within the US goverment know the state of play judging by the statements from them. Greenspan is an example - he ain't daft:-)

I agree on the "no fiscal policy" with the current Admin. This is going to have - seems to have started - a devastating effect on individuals in the US. When an Admin takes upon itself to not publish or
"abbreviate" the nations financial stats - that is another sign of trouble:-) Do shareholders no longer need an annual report or does some BS verbal (read "lies") suffice these days?? :-)

The sad bit is the US as a nation will end up paying a price on so many levels for this Admin's "doctrine" and it will affect people who never ever contributed to this fiasco. This has already started and is just increasing...

Being blind is not a defense :-) Time will tell, but I for one, will not be happy when the crap it's the fan, since this will not only affect the US, but with ripples worldwide.

Horse Shit.

torrey:



Amazing idiocy!!!

Apparently you don't know jack shit about what it means to "be an American".

Bush is a horrible leader and our country is in a pathetic state now, both economically and diplomatically. Much of this can be directly linked to decisions this administration has made.

That being said, government != country. You can hate the current gov (or the majority of it) and still be proud at the same time.

I guess conservatives starting the brainwashing really early now to have such good results ;o

You are but a brainless little grain of sand on the beach of humanity...but admittedly even a grain of sand can be an irritant.

Oh lord please STFU.

I agree with you 100% with regards to his performance. My beef is not with Bush bashing, My beef is US bashing.

thats what I was thinking when I read your ass ridden post.

torrey:

What's all the "anti-american" shit??? Is that all that can spew forth from US people who have problems relating??

Do you hear other countries whining about people being "anti" them?? I don't give a shit if you whine about my country - you are entitled to do so. And if they are wrong on issues, I'll join you! It's called freedom of expression which the US seems to hold dear, but in real life, has a problem accepting.

Gimme a break and quit the banal excuses/one-liners/upmanship-my-dick-is-bigger stuff for protecting something or someone who is clearly in the wrong - this sounds more like some "disease" than any basic common sense. Communism comes to mind :-)

The kid "them" and "us" shit is of a level that ain't even out of kindergarten.

Peace out!

Bu-bye

great....Walmarts prices are gonna sky rocket

torrey:

Hell.. that was "anti American"??? *lol*

That was a statement of fact and if you want to quibble about it - just look up the numerous links on this thread.

Sheesh.. some people are nuts, or else have that disease where they cannot accept basic facts that have been acknowledged by others more qualified within their own country.

It sounds like *any* statement that may possibly reflect badly means people are "anti American". If my country owed billions to the rest of the world, cannot muster a trade surplus and was borrowing from other nations - I think I'd be pretty damned vocal!! Tho the govt would not be in power long if that was the case!

A intresting read

http://www.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/bbs...;f=57;t=000004

Whats this. I go and take a break and WEBBY thinks he can start spewing BLAH BLAH BLAH again.

This has been a great debate. Views on all sides of the issue have chimmed in, pro Bush, anti Bush, pro Keary, and even anti France.

But you WEBBY have contributed nothing but factless, nonsess, and whinny ranting that remind me so much of the little pissant that you truely are. You do nothing, believe in nothing. contribute nothing, and so as a result, are worth nothing.

Thanks to all who joined in tonight. i have enjoyed the thread and say goodnight to all.

But to you WEBBY I give a special tribute in the purest sense of the board...............

GO FUCK YOURSELF!

Couple other interesting reads...

Chinese Defense Today
http://www.sinodefence.com/

CIA World Factbook on China as of 18 December, 2003
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/ch.html


Economy - Outlook

In late 1978 the Chinese leadership began moving the economy from a sluggish, Soviet-style centrally planned economy to a more market-oriented system. Whereas the system operates within a political framework of strict Communist control, the economic influence of non-state organizations and individual citizens has been steadily increasing. The authorities switched to a system of household and village responsibility in agriculture in place of the old collectivization, increased the authority of local officials and plant managers in industry, permitted a wide variety of small-scale enterprises in services and light manufacturing, and opened the economy to increased foreign trade and investment. The result has been a quadrupling of GDP since 1978. In 2003, with its 1.3 billion people but a GDP of just $5,000 per capita, China stood as the second-largest economy in the world after the US (measured on a purchasing power parity basis). Agriculture and industry have posted major gains, especially in coastal areas near Hong Kong and opposite Taiwan, where foreign investment has helped spur output of both domestic and export goods. The leadership, however, often has experienced - as a result of its hybrid system - the worst results of socialism (bureaucracy and lassitude) and of capitalism (windfall gains and growing income disparities). China thus has periodically backtracked, retightening central controls at intervals. The government has struggled to (a) collect revenues due from provinces, businesses, and individuals; (b) reduce corruption and other economic crimes; and (c) keep afloat the large state-owned enterprises, many of which had been shielded from competition by subsidies and had been losing the ability to pay full wages and pensions. From 80 to 120 million surplus rural workers are adrift between the villages and the cities, many subsisting through part-time low-paying jobs. Popular resistance, changes in central policy, and loss of authority by rural cadres have weakened China's population control program, which is essential to maintaining long-term growth in living standards. Another long-term threat to growth is the deterioration in the environment, notably air pollution, soil erosion, and the steady fall of the water table especially in the north. China continues to lose arable land because of erosion and economic development. Beijing says it will intensify efforts to stimulate growth through spending on infrastructure - such as water control and power grids - and poverty relief and through rural tax reform aimed at eliminating arbitrary local levies on farmers. Accession to the World Trade Organization helps strengthen China's ability to maintain strong growth rates but at the same time puts additional pressure on the hybrid system of strong political controls and growing market influences. China has benefited from a huge expansion in computer internet use. Foreign investment remains a strong element in China's remarkable economic growth.

Disputes - International

involved in complex dispute over the Spratly Islands with Malaysia, Philippines, Taiwan, Vietnam, and possibly Brunei; claimants in November 2002 signed the "Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea", a mechanism to ease tension but which fell short of a legally binding "code of conduct"; much of the rugged, militarized boundary with India is in dispute, but the two sides have participated in more than 13 rounds of joint working group sessions on this issue; India objects to Pakistan ceding lands to China in 1965 boundary agreement that India believes are part of disputed Kashmir; China, as well as Taiwan, claims Japanese-administered Senkaku-shoto (Diaoyu Tai) islands; negotiations with Tajikistan resolved the longstanding boundary dispute; China and Kazakhstan have resolved their border dispute and are working to delimit their large open borders to control population migration, illegal activities, and trade; Kyrgyzstan's constitutional court rules that 1,270 sq km ceded to China in 2000 delimitation agreement were legally transferred; certain islands in Yalu and Tumen rivers are in uncontested dispute with North Korea and a section of boundary around Mount Paektu is indefinite - China objects to illegal migration of North Koreans into northern China; China continues to seek a mutually acceptable solution to the disputed alluvial islands with Russia at the confluence of the Amur and Ussuri rivers and a small island on the Argun river as part of the 2001 Treaty of Good Neighborliness, Friendship, and Cooperation; boundary agreements signed in 2002 with Tajikistan cedes 1,000 sq km of Pamir Mountain range to China in return for China's relinquishing claims to 28,000 sq km; demarcation of land boundary with Vietnam continues but maritime boundary and joint fishing zone agreement remains unratified; China occupies Paracel Islands also claimed by Vietnam and Taiwan.

irishfury:

Yea.. interesting site!

The Greenspan quote sums up the situation where relying on foreign investment seems to "keep the house in order". The problem with that is it ain't happening and, least in the forseeable future will not happen on the scale to which it was accustomed.

The balance on monthly foreign investment dropped to 8% of the norm in the last months of 2003 - pretty devastating!






PS... Bimini .. take another break - you won't miss anything and would not understand anyway!

Coming from what I gather is a non-American, your statements about US finance, media, and policy are considered inflammatory toward the US in general, let alone GW Bush. Can you not see how that might occur???

torrey:

Why don't you take your stupid "US hatred" shit and find something constructive to replace it??

Clearly... you don't get the point.. so.. pointless!

You are but a brainless grain of sand on the beach of humanity...but admittedly a grain of sand can be an irritant.

Now suddenly its "US HATRED".

theKing:

As an specimen of your countrymen - I doubt they they would care to consider you as being representative.

I, for one, know you are not!

torrey:

I wonder what you find so amusing since it is you who is whining and using terms like "anti American"??? There is nothing "sudden" about it - check your posts!!

You totally dumb??

torrey:

Na.. forget it!!

That sig says it all - an idiot suffering from the blinding patriotism disease!

I must start stuffing up a country flag as a sig - least it may have an icon of some financial stability on it than a gun!

Webby, everyone knows buddy.

Didnt you say peace out a few posts ago??
Time to


Im off to bed, I aint mad at ya.

torrey:

Sure did and peace to you!!

If anything did happen with these bonds and China, can't Bush just pull a "huh, China, who are you guys? You don't own any bonds..." -- They already gave us their cash, all they got out of it was a flimsy bunch of papers.

People who know so little about economics that they have to rely on biased reporters to process freely available government data for them should not comment on economic matters.

It is blatantly obvious that most in this thread couldn't begin to understand the workings of their own country's economy let alone how that fits into the much larger world economy.

You got to love when poeple are having a conversation and some moron waddles over says "you're all dumb and know nothing" then waddles away.


What a joke your post was.

Ha... I like the ones who are so lame all they can do is say people they disagree with or don't understand are brainwashed....