Ok Mr. honest guy, what about that: Shave detector v1.0

**AWW - Kevin** · 03-08-2004, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by bhutocracy

I don't agree with that scenario either - but it's also unrealistic - becuase you DON'T KNOW that sponsor B is shaving - nor do you Sponsor A but your cheuque is higher with B so you go with them.

you maybe right but Ben's question was hypotheticall .. and i would still stick to my answer if i knew for sure sponsor b was shaving and sponsor a was not !

**bhutocracy** · 03-08-2004, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by AWW - Kevin

you maybe right but Ben's question was hypotheticall .. and i would still stick to my answer if i knew for sure sponsor b was shaving and sponsor a was not !

I agree. Hey come down for a coffee and I'll let you have a peek around the admin system for the two programs - then you can come back here and people will say you've been bought off with cheap instant and too much sugar! But at least that will mean one more person that knows for sure lol.

**AWW - Kevin** · 03-08-2004, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by mryellow
Hey Kevin!

Yeah it's sad....

If I made a program tomorrow that offered $500 per signup
what's the bet I'd have a crapload of newbies signup by the end
of the day.

There is a demand here for audited non-cheating sponsors tho.
Believe me sponsors are reading this and thinking "How can we
prove we don't shave? We want those webmasters!"

-Ben

i hope you're right, IF this script works it would be a great opportunity for the first sponsor who chooses to use it to get some free PR and probably lots of affilates who are sick of wondering if and how much they are being shaved !

**AWW - Kevin** · 03-08-2004, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by bhutocracy

I agree. Hey come down for a coffee and I'll let you have a peek around the admin system for the two programs - then you can come back here and people will say you've been bought off with cheap instant and too much sugar! But at least that will mean one more person that knows for sure lol.

i might just take you up on that, was going to go on Wed. but
something came up..so maybe next week !
love the drive down the coast

**bhutocracy** · 03-08-2004, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by AWW - Kevin

i might just take you up on that, was going to go on Wed. but
something came up..so maybe next week !
love the drive down the coast

sounds good

**supermack** · 03-08-2004, 09:32 PM

sponsors.....

a bunch of god damned theives

sure, dont post anything on this subject you fucking crooks.

**pimplink** · 03-08-2004, 10:34 PM

Duh.

**Nathan** · 03-08-2004, 10:57 PM

If we wouldn't be MPA2 competition I would look at the code or write some script myself...

But even this will not really solve the problem. I've been trying to figure out good ways about how to test reliably if a MPA2 installation is shaving or not. There sadly is no good way without logging into the DB.

What we could do is have MPA2 sponsors give REMOTE _read only_ access to webmasters, transactions and stats table and offer remote stats which just simply ignore the *_paid fields. Or, maybe even simpler, which just looks at the _paid fields and gives you a shave percentage after you login to your account there. If its remotely hosted, then it will be very safe to say its telling the truth. But of course MPA2 sponsor would have to open up read only access to some of their MPA2 tables. I do not really see a big problem in that though.

**TheSwed** · 03-09-2004, 01:59 AM

Interesting discussion...

**TheSenator** · 03-09-2004, 06:00 AM

So all MPA2 webmaster shave?

ok then who uses MPA2?

**TheSenator** · 03-09-2004, 06:25 AM

fart bump

**Wilbo** · 03-09-2004, 06:46 AM

1 shaved MPA2 bump

**Dildozer** · 03-09-2004, 07:08 AM

Ben you wanna audit the software yourself?

hmmm lemme think about your morals...

"
Shaving sponsor A offers me $2000 to say the script is shitty and flawed.

Non-Shaving sponsor B doesn't offer me shit"

I know which one you'd take. You're typical of most people in this industry.

Oh and what the fuck is the difference between the rebill ccbill issue and PPS sponsors shaving? none. It's fraud for both. Look at sponsors who TELL you and LIE to you that they're not shaving. All PPS sponsors do it, are they shaving or not it doesn't matter because we KNOW some of them are. How in the fuck is that difference from the ccbill rebills issue?

**CashGordon** · 03-09-2004, 07:38 AM

I've just seen this thread! I can install it to server unless it's not encrypted with zend. I need to see source, explore it and when I'm %100 sure that it's not trojan horse no worries for me.

**4Pics** · 03-09-2004, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by Dildozer
Ben you wanna audit the software yourself?

hmmm lemme think about your morals...

"
Shaving sponsor A offers me $2000 to say the script is shitty and flawed.

Non-Shaving sponsor B doesn't offer me shit"

I know which one you'd take. You're typical of most people in this industry.

Oh and what the fuck is the difference between the rebill ccbill issue and PPS sponsors shaving? none. It's fraud for both. Look at sponsors who TELL you and LIE to you that they're not shaving. All PPS sponsors do it, are they shaving or not it doesn't matter because we KNOW some of them are. How in the fuck is that difference from the ccbill rebills issue?

its not just rebills that can be shaved with ccbill, its the whole put account on hold and the webmaster is not notified they are on hold.

**Dildozer** · 03-09-2004, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by SexTronix
I've just seen this thread! I can install it to server unless it's not encrypted with zend. I need to see source, explore it and when I'm %100 sure that it's not trojan horse no worries for me.

Perfect, sextronix on top of that
This deserves a well earned bump and i'm surprised there hasn't been more replies.

Oh wait most MPA2 sponsors except bhuto and sextronix are avoiding this thread like the plague

**Wilbo** · 03-09-2004, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by SexTronix
I've just seen this thread! I can install it to server unless it's not encrypted with zend. I need to see source, explore it and when I'm %100 sure that it's not trojan horse no worries for me.

Excelent, now who else would like to gain the trust and admiration of thousands of hard working webmasters?

**coolandthegang** · 03-09-2004, 07:58 AM

honesty is such a lonely word.......

**Wilbo** · 03-09-2004, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by coolandthegang
honesty is such a lonely word.......

It doesn't have to be........if a sponsor used this script they'd have lotsa new friends I'll betcha

**Wilbo** · 03-09-2004, 10:32 AM

Bumping for honesty

**jedmaster2112** · 03-09-2004, 11:02 AM

I am new to this industry, can someone explain shaving?

**kenny** · 03-09-2004, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by jedmaster2112
I am new to this industry, can someone explain shaving?

Some programs only pay you for some of the signups that you generate. The stats are nothing more then what they want to pay you.

**kenny** · 03-09-2004, 12:20 PM

Where can I find a list of MPA2 sponsors?

And how can you tell if that is what they use?

**kenny** · 03-09-2004, 12:40 PM

Did they agree to have this program verified by a trusted third party yet?

How can you tell if a sponsor uses MAP2? I really want to know this

**Wilbo** · 03-09-2004, 01:29 PM

Threads of sponsors who use MPA2 and general info about the shave module.

http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/showth...highlight=mpa2

http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/showth...highlight=mpa2

http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/showth...highlight=mpa2

**Jason** · 03-09-2004, 02:14 PM

You can test anything you want on PD..

But we don't use MPA

CoolWebStats over here.

woot woot.

**Xplicit** · 03-09-2004, 02:21 PM

Interesting concept

**Dildozer** · 03-09-2004, 02:45 PM

bump you shaving bastards!!!

**bhutocracy** · 03-09-2004, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by kenny
Where can I find a list of MPA2 sponsors?

And how can you tell if that is what they use?

to be honest, it's a bit silly to be worrying about mpa2 sponsors, ANY program even third party ones can shave, and probably better at it too with tricky custom scripts with minimum sales before shave and different times of days.. seriously even if you were a cheat I think you'd be stupid to use the mpa2 shave.. it's just a % set.. I think it would be so easy to detect.. then again someone said there was a per webmaster shave in mpa2 a few days ago but i don't know where it is. maybe it's an old version or an add on.

**AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE** · 03-09-2004, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by bhutocracy

to be honest, it's a bit silly to be worrying about mpa2 sponsors, ANY program even third party ones can shave, and probably better at it too with tricky custom scripts.

Thus explaining my previous posts in this thread.

Ya need to know who ya doing business with.

**Wilbo** · 03-09-2004, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by AlienQ

Thus explaining my previous posts in this thread.

Ya need to know who ya doing business with.

Gimme a break. Just cuz the guy buys you drinks and slaps you on the back at a convention doesn't mean he's not shaving.

TRUST BUT VERIFY!!!

**Glass Fantasy** · 03-09-2004, 03:07 PM

what a long thread!

**jimmyf** · 03-09-2004, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Wilbo

Why are they playing deaf and dumb?

Because you are trying to fuck with there money.

**jayeff** · 03-09-2004, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by AlienQ

Thus explaining my previous posts in this thread.

Ya need to know who ya doing business with.

Which is a totally obvious but also almost totally useless piece of advice. Almost everyone who has turned out to be a villain had a cheerleader section: at least some of those supporters surely thought they knew who they were rooting for.

Even if a lot of these guys weren't as near anonymous as makes no difference, how exactly do you propose "knowing" them? A couple of emails? Some chats on ICQ? A phone call maybe (to the few that publish numbers)? That's all fluff. Even if you meet them at a convention or whatever, you won't know any more about who you are doing business with than they want you to know.

And face it, if sponsors and affiliates did have enough contact to be remotely useful in this respect, no-one would ever get any work done.

**jimmyf** · 03-09-2004, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by mryellow
As for the actual act of shaving.... I don't care...

If I send traffic to sponsor A and make $500 and send traffic to
sponsor B and make $600..... I really do not care at all if sponsor
B shaves more then A because I'm simply making more money
with them. Smart webmasters look at the bottom line, not the
ratio, not the $ per signup, not the percentage.... Just the bottom
line.
Just to let you know, I can 100% guarantee the sponsors in my
sig count 100% and do not shave at all.

-Ben

I don't think you understand, myself and a whole bunch do care.
I care if they steal

i care a one hell of a lot

**MediumPimpin** · 03-09-2004, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by Dildozer
bump you shaving bastards!!!

I will install the thing, I would love for webmasters to see from day one we never shaved, also we are moving off the MPA2 within a week but the old MPA2 server will be up for another month or so.

**swingerman** · 03-09-2004, 05:23 PM

this is geting ridiculous. IMO.
EVERY affiliate program can shave you if they want. no matter if they are using mpa2 or ccbill or a custom script. whatever.

IF some programs shave, they are hurting themselves because if affiliates can't get any signups, they'll leave the boat asap.

I'm in this biz since 4 years, perhaps I've been shaved by some sponsors, perhaps not. I don't know and therefore I make no stupid accusations!

What makes me mad is the fact that many people start to cry "this sponsor is shaving, that sponsor is shaving, blahblahblah", just because conversions are low on one day.
LOL!
There are bad days, that's normal. And if you have no good days with a sponsor and you are not able to make money with a sponsor,... MOVE ON!

But this whole discussion now about shaving is annoying and childish.
There are many companies who put a lot of time and money into their business and decided to buy mpa2 because it has some good features and is cheaper than most other similar products.
Now all get bashed here. And people who read this board think that all sponsors using mpa2 are shaving assholes.
C'mon!

And regarding this script announced here: A professional company would NEVER ever install such a script on their server! A script made by someone who comes to this board and posts it. someone anonymous. what if this script fucks up some functions of mpa2? what if the script causes a server crash? what if this script causes corruptions in mpa2? who pays for this?

It's easy to come here and say to sponsors "Install it or are you afraid of getting caught?".
Just imagine you'd own an affiliate program and put shitloads of money into it and MUST live off of the paysites and have fucking HUGE server, script and content bills! You must be sure that everything is working smoothly because you have members, you have affiliates, etc.
You wouldn't risk installing such a script from a guy coming to this board!

Perhaps some sponsors shave, perhaps not.
Perhaps this "Shave detector" is working fine, perhaps not.
Perhaps some webmasters cheat their sponsors to death, perhaps not.

**mryellow** · 03-09-2004, 05:26 PM

Regarding my integrity....

As an affiliate I don't care if a sponsor shaves. I always look at
the bottom line and the growth in my bank account.

As someone who has sponsors in my sig for which I have access
to the admin panels. I do want to show that no one I'm
associated with shaves.

Just because I say I don't care if a sponsor I'm using shaves.
Does *not* mean that I want to shave or be involved with
shaving.

My offer stands to audit the software.

I will put together a team of 2-3 coders from different social
circles that are not connected with myself, MPA2, or the script-
writer.

I will verify the code has no trojans and is not exploitable.

I will verify the code does not send any sensitive data or allow
any kind database query other than those needed to determine
shaving.

I'll narrow the SQL queries so that they only call up the needed
data and no unneeded data is streamed into the script.

I will come up with a method to re-encrypt the code while having
the other auditors verify I have not modified it in the process.

I will create or use a CRC checking program to verify the package
integrity for users before installing.

I will digitally sign a file and add some kind of legal description of
what has been done and my responsibilities.

I will attach my reputation to the code.

I want to have the programs in my sig be the first MPA2 sponsors
to 100% prove they don't shave.

Without an audit no one wants to install it.

If we don't hear back from the coder then we can safely assume
that it was a hack and that the only purpose was to get sponsor
to install an exploit on their system.

-Ben

**Dildozer** · 03-09-2004, 05:53 PM

What we could do also is have 2 groups audit the software separately and make sure after both versions are the exact same, maybe could help in preventing cohersion.

I know there are other ways to shave, but what the hell, MPA2 might become the first verifiable shaving system. If you get shaved there's a way for you to know!

Could be very very good for MPA2 in a way.

**undermyspell** · 03-09-2004, 06:43 PM

I think a good question to be asked regarding the whole thing is whether or not a sponor could go back through the past months to correct any shaving irregularities they had and whether they could go back into the affiliate accounts/signups at the processors and do the same thing. If that's the case it would be a moot point to even try to do this and that may be why sponsors aren't eagerly attempting to check into this script. I'm not sure how much changing ability is available in the mpa side and the processors side. Maybe one of the processing companies can answer how much leeway a sponsor program has in altering the signups that come in and whether they can change who the signups are allocated to.

**mryellow** · 03-09-2004, 06:59 PM

There is a problem with using 2 groups. Not 100% sure if this is
how the Zend system works but if it's a decent encryption
scheme then it would be impossible to compare one file to
another after encryption as the data in the file could be totally
different yet still the same un-encrypted code. It's the same
problem I'll run into when re-encrypting the code and at the same
time having other auditors virtually sitting on my shoulder so they
can see it's unmodified.

As for sponsors going back over past months. It wouldn't be
worth the risk of breaking the system and loosing money. Also
the affiliates would then see a different amount in their past
stats compared to their cheques or what the stats used to show.

I think this was just a hack guys..... Don't think the script ever did
what he says... The whole hash thing looks like a smoke screen.

Kinda sick of the idea..... If you want a sponsor that doesn't
shave check my sig... Got no way to prove it to you as it stands
but I'm 100% sure you won't find anyone anywhere that says
I've scammed them.

-Ben

**blady** · 03-09-2004, 10:49 PM

Here it goes mryellow,

Again, that's not something evil but without encoding it's so easy to fake the results. Do not trust any version other than the ones either encoded by my programmer or mryellow.

As some code will be replaced with hahaha's you have to fix those.

config.php

PHP Code:

<?php
$server="";
$username="";
$password="";
$db="";
?>

detector.php

PHP Code:

<?php
require("./config.php");
if ($_POST["Submit2"]hahahaha"Submit2") {
 $hash=md5($_POST["key"]."ourencryptionscramblekeywashere");
}
if ($_POST["Submit"]hahahaha"Submit") {
mysql_connect($server,$username,$password);
mysql_select_db($db);
$res=mysql_query("SELECT * FROM webmasters WHERE username='".$_POST["un"]."' AND password='".$_POST["pwd"]."'");
while($row=mysql_fetch_assoc($res)) {
$mpaid=$row['id'];
}
$res=mysql_query("SELECT * FROM transactions WHERE webmaster='".$mpaid."'");
$signups=0;
$chargebacks=0;
$signupsp=0;
$chargebacksp=0;
while($row=mysql_fetch_assoc($res)) {
    if ($row['chargeback']hahahaha0) {
    $signups++;
    $signupsp=$signupsp+$row['signup_paid'];
    } else {
    $chargebacks++;
    $chargebacksp=$chargebacksp+$row['signup_paid'];
    }
}
}
?>
<html>
hahahahahaha>
<title>MPA Shave Detector 1.0</title>
hahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahaha="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</head>
hahahahahaha>
 <p>MPA Shave Detector 1.0 </p>
 hahahahahaha name="form2" method=hahahahahaha action="">
   <p>Validate File :
     hahahahahahaha name="key" type="text" id="key"> 
     hahahahahahaha type="submit" name="Submit2" value="Submit2">
</p>
   <p>Validate String: <b><?php echo $hash ?></b></p>
 </form>
 <p>Checksum of detector.php : <b><?php echo md5_file("detector.php") ?></b><br>
   Local host: <b><?php echo $_SERVER['HTTP_HOST'] ?></b><br>
   Mysql server: <b><?php echo $server ?></b><br>
  Database: <b><?php echo $db ?></b><br>
  Login: <b><?php echo strlen($username) ?></b> characters<br>
 Password: <b><?php echo strlen($password) ?></b> characters</p>
 hahahahahaha name="form1" method=hahahahahaha action="">
   Your MPA2 webmaster Username:
     hahahahahahaha name="un" type="text" id="un" size="8">
   hahahahahahaha name="pwd" type="text" id="pwd" size="8">
   hahahahahahaha type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit"> 
   Make sure to use submit button, not enter key. 
 </form>
 <?php if ($_POST["Submit"]hahahaha"Submit") { ?>
 <p>Your MPA ID: <b><?php echo $mpaid ?></b><br>
   You have made <b><?php echo $signups ?></b> signups  and you have been credited <b><?php echo $signupsp ?></b> signups. Percentage <b><?php echo 100-(($signupsp*100)/$signups) ?></b>%<br>
   You have made  <b><?php echo $chargebacks ?></b> chargebacks and you have been credited <b><?php echo $chargebacksp ?></b> chargebacks. Percentage <b><?php echo 100-(($chargebacksp*100)/$chargebacks) ?></b>%<br>
 </p>
 <table border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1">
<?php  mysql_data_seek($res, 0) ;while($row=mysql_fetch_assoc($res)) {
if ($row['chargeback']hahahaha0) {
?>
    <tr>
     <td scope="col">Date: <b><?php echo $row['date'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Site: <b><?php echo $row['site'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Credit Program: <b><?php echo $row['program'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Sale: <b><?php echo $row['initial_payment'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Rebill: <b><?php echo $row['rebill'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Chargeback: <b><?php echo $row['chargeback'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Signup Price: <b><?php echo $row['signup_p'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Signup Paid: <b><?php echo $row['signup_paid'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Parnership: <b><?php echo $row['partner_p'] ?>%</b></td>
     <td scope="col">Parnership Paid: <b><?php echo $row['partner_paid'] ?></b></td>
   </tr>
   <?php } } ?>
</table><br>
 <table border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1">
<?php  mysql_data_seek($res, 0) ;while($row=mysql_fetch_assoc($res)) {
if ($row['chargeback']>0) {
?>
    <tr>
     <td scope="col">Date: <b><?php echo $row['date'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Site: <b><?php echo $row['site'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Credit Program: <b><?php echo $row['program'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Sale: <b><?php echo $row['initial_payment'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Rebill: <b><?php echo $row['rebill'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Chargeback: <b><?php echo $row['chargeback'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Signup Price: <b><?php echo $row['signup_p'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Signup Paid: <b><?php echo $row['signup_paid'] ?></b></td>
     <td scope="col">Parnership: <b><?php echo $row['partner_p'] ?>%</b></td>
     <td scope="col">Parnership Paid: <b><?php echo $row['partner_paid'] ?></b></td>
   </tr>
   <?php } } ?>
</table>
<?php } ?>
</hahahahahaha
</html>
?>

**mryellow** · 03-09-2004, 11:21 PM

Lookin good. Simple with nothing to hide.

Couple of changes to improve it...

Not a huge security concern but just to make people feel better
the queries can be changed a lil.

As part of that change they can be made to query all the
database rather than one user. This will allow people to checkout
a sponsor before signing up which is the motivation for sponsors
installing it.

Seeing the code is now public I'll make any changes public as well.

Then I maybuild an extra non-public function that will validate
that a sponsor is in-fact running the verified copy of the script.
or.... I may do this by providing a signed program file with
information specific to that sponsor and probably the time the
actual script file was created/encrypted. I have to think of a
transparent way to do this that can't be faked.

Now I have to find some people to validate it and my re-
encrypt.... Was thinking of asking here but now I'm thinking it
may be a good idea to get some people not involved in adult at
all. I'll check it out tomorrow. Think I'll try to find some people
willing to post and digitally sign a file.

As you can see I've thought about how to make this as
transparent as possible. I have in the past worked for a program
installing their copy of MPA2 however I'll work to make the
process so that there is no possible way for me to influence any
results.

btw I'll pass this back to you once it's packaged and you can take
it from there...

-Ben

**Wilbo** · 03-10-2004, 02:23 AM

C'mon sponsors, the code is here .......... no secutity concerns now.

**mryellow** · 03-10-2004, 06:20 AM

They can't use the code yet.

There is no way to prove that the code hasn't been edited to give
fake results unless we use a tranparent audit and code validation
process and stick to it.

-Ben

**mryellow** · 03-10-2004, 06:21 AM

of course it would save some time if MPA included a page that
allowed affiliates to check the shave settings.

-Ben

**Dildozer** · 03-10-2004, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by mryellow
of course it would save some time if MPA included a page that
allowed affiliates to check the shave settings.

-Ben

Lol yeah i wish, however that would defeat the purpose wouldn't it?

**Wilbo** · 03-10-2004, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by mryellow
of course it would save some time if MPA included a page that
allowed affiliates to check the shave settings.

-Ben

Maybe they'll do that while the next convention is going on and sponsors aren't aware of it like CCBill did

**Dildozer** · 03-10-2004, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Wilbo

Maybe they'll do that while the next convention is going on and sponsors aren't aware of it like CCBill did

Wouldn't surprise me either

**DatingGold** · 03-10-2004, 02:54 PM

mpa.. bleh! wasted $7k on it never used it

Ok Mr. honest guy, what about that: Shave detector v1.0

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