Over half of Americans dont believe in evolution

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  • Drake
    Hello world!
    • Mar 2003
    • 12508
    #401
    Originally posted by CET
    Evolution gets tested all the time. The peppered moth experiment in England, thousands of experiments on germs, virus' and fruit flies.

    You never did explain why we need a new flu vaccine every year if there is no such thing as evolution.

    Nor did you ever answer how there can be natural selection without mutation.
    The moth experiment has been discredited. They discovered that their were two kinds of moths. It's not astounding that the dark moth that could not be seen would live while the one that stuck out like a sore thumb was picked off by predators.

    Fruit flies was interesting, but again, it only shows natural selection.

      Comment

      • Johny Traffic
        Confirmed User
        • Apr 2003
        • 5461
        #402
        Now I know what it must have been like trying to convince people that the earth revolves around the sun and not vice versa.
        It does, fuck, thats messed everything up


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          Comment

          • Joe Citizen
            Confirmed User
            • Oct 2003
            • 4552
            #403
            Originally posted by punkworld
            I'm not gonna bother to read this trainwreck of a thread, and will instead just state the obvious: evolution is a logical necessity.
            Thank you for your drive-by wisdom.

              Comment

              • stocktrader23
                Let's do some business.
                • Jan 2003
                • 18781
                #404
                Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                More creation 'scientists'
                lol

                http://www.str.org/free/commentaries...n/phnotsci.htm


                Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life

                "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

                  Comment

                  • ADL Colin
                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                    • Feb 2001
                    • 11929
                    #405
                    Originally posted by stocktrader23
                    Wow, no offense but this article really sums up the attitude here today.

                    http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-332.htm

                    "The fact is that evolutionists believe in evolution because they want to. It is their desire at all costs to explain the origin of everything without a Creator."
                    It's funny how the religious try to insult science by calling it, of all things, "religious".


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                      Comment

                      • Libertine
                        sex dwarf
                        • May 2002
                        • 17860
                        #406
                        Originally posted by Mike33
                        I've been in my share of classes. EVERYTHING can be broken down into English that can be understood by the common man. you think universities are packed with people with big brains that understand things you and I are incapable of? No, most are average students and we can understand just as much as they do. So, I ask you again, to break this one down for me. The fact that it's a subset, a specific area, could even mean it's easier to do so. Don't give me the cop out.
                        So you're claiming no such thing as intelligence exists?
                        /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                          Comment

                          • Joe Citizen
                            Confirmed User
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 4552
                            #407
                            Originally posted by Mike33
                            The moth experiment has been discredited. They discovered that their were two kinds of moths. It's not astounding that the dark moth that could not be seen would live while the one that stuck out like a sore thumb was picked off by predators.
                            Oh Mike... even the seven-day creationists agree that the peppered moth is an example of a species adapting to its environment.

                            You're reaching here.
                            Last edited by Joe Citizen; 11-05-2004, 04:05 AM.

                              Comment

                              • stocktrader23
                                Let's do some business.
                                • Jan 2003
                                • 18781
                                #408
                                Do they still give out longest thread prizes?


                                Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life

                                "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

                                  Comment

                                  • CET
                                    Confirmed User
                                    • Jul 2003
                                    • 2754
                                    #409
                                    Originally posted by Mike33
                                    CET, if you were me and people starting asssuming I was religious, calling me names, just because I challenge evolution, maybe you would see that their is a similarity of it being dogmatic.

                                    Most of the people, not including you or joe, have no idea what evolution is all about yet their willing to jump down my throat because it is believed to be the truth today. There was a guy earlier in the thread trying to convince me that aging was evolution. I was the "ignorant" one for correcting him because that's completely false.

                                    People claiming I'm religious or believe in aliens or other dubious alternatives just because I don't succumb to evolutionary theory. That's like osctrazigng somebody or labelling them.

                                    So, I'm not playing the victim at all.
                                    I'm not going to make excuses for those who have not read the entire thread. Assholes are assholes.

                                    However, when the entire scientific community says "this is the best explaination we have of X," it's kind of arrogant to tell the entire scientific community that they don't know what they're talking about. I'm not going to tell me doctor he doesn't know what he's doing. These men and women spend their entire lives educating themselves on a subject that we get MAYBE one year of basic education in, and many of us don't even get that. Yet we're going to tell them that we know better then them?
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                                    "Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."

                                      Comment

                                      • Johny Traffic
                                        Confirmed User
                                        • Apr 2003
                                        • 5461
                                        #410
                                        Do they still give out longest thread prizes?
                                        I hope so


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                                          Comment

                                          • Joe Citizen
                                            Confirmed User
                                            • Oct 2003
                                            • 4552
                                            #411
                                            Originally posted by stocktrader23
                                            lol

                                            http://www.str.org/free/commentaries...n/phnotsci.htm
                                            Tell me, what are "Greg's" scientific credentials?

                                              Comment

                                              • CET
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Jul 2003
                                                • 2754
                                                #412
                                                Originally posted by stocktrader23
                                                Wow, no offense but this article really sums up the attitude here today.

                                                http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-332.htm

                                                "The fact is that evolutionists believe in evolution because they want to. It is their desire at all costs to explain the origin of everything without a Creator."
                                                That explains exactly what a creationist does 180. We are what we accuse others of being.

                                                BTW, these same creationists (usually preachers) tell biologists, geologists and physicsts that they know these subjects better then these entire scientific communities combined. Who is really trying to explain things a certain way at all costs?
                                                Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!

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                                                "Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."

                                                  Comment

                                                  • stocktrader23
                                                    Let's do some business.
                                                    • Jan 2003
                                                    • 18781
                                                    #413
                                                    Originally posted by CET
                                                    I'm not going to make excuses for those who have not read the entire thread. Assholes are assholes.

                                                    However, when the entire scientific community says "this is the best explaination we have of X," it's kind of arrogant to tell the entire scientific community that they don't know what they're talking about. I'm not going to tell me doctor he doesn't know what he's doing. These men and women spend their entire lives educating themselves on a subject that we get MAYBE one year of basic education in, and many of us don't even get that. Yet we're going to tell them that we know better then them?
                                                    Sorry, when their best explanation requires more assumptions than I can count I won't accept it at face value.

                                                    Do you really find it possible that there is a person alive today that can tell you X happened 10 million years ago and be correct? These guys are so enlightened that they can trace things to millions of years? Carbon dating or not, I can't make myself just believe them because it's the best explanation they have.


                                                    Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life

                                                    "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Johny Traffic
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Apr 2003
                                                        • 5461
                                                        #414
                                                        These men and women spend their entire lives educating themselves on a subject that we get MAYBE one year of basic education in, and many of us don't even get that. Yet we're going to tell them that we know better then them?
                                                        In 1492 a sailor called Christopher Columbus went sailing to discover new lands. The wisest and cleverist scientist of the day said he would fall off the side of the earth because it is flat. He didnt. They were wrong


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                                                          Comment

                                                          • Drake
                                                            Hello world!
                                                            • Mar 2003
                                                            • 12508
                                                            #415
                                                            I stated 3 conditions in this beginnging of the thread upon which I would agree with the evolution as the explanation of all life as we see it and experience it today. If all these were met I would have no problem with it.

                                                            But when you talk about millions of years, you're asking for mass extrapolations, each of which come into question.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • SlutFinder
                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                • Oct 2003
                                                                • 2273
                                                                #416
                                                                wow this thread got long!
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                                                                  • CET
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Jul 2003
                                                                    • 2754
                                                                    #417
                                                                    Originally posted by Mike33
                                                                    I've been in my share of classes. EVERYTHING can be broken down into English that can be understood by the common man. you think universities are packed with people with big brains that understand things you and I are incapable of? No, most are average students and we can understand just as much as they do. So, I ask you again, to break this one down for me. The fact that it's a subset, a specific area, could even mean it's easier to do so. Don't give me the cop out.
                                                                    Cop out. I've read up on molecular biology, pondered it, asked questions and moved on. It's not a subject I think about very much anymore because it doesn't have much bearing on computers. It has some bearing on fitness and nutrition, but not in an evolutionary sense. I don't remember it that well and you would learn a lot more if you learned it on your own. If I spent a shit load of time researching it and reporting to you, you wouldn't learn much if you learned anything without just blowing off my work. Sorry, but that's happened way too often to me on public forums. I've done my studying and learning, you haven't and it's your turn to do it if you want to understand the subject, because you obviously don't understand it now.
                                                                    Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!

                                                                    Fitness and nutrition writer, and UNIX/Linux Sys Ad in training

                                                                    "Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • stocktrader23
                                                                        Let's do some business.
                                                                        • Jan 2003
                                                                        • 18781
                                                                        #418
                                                                        Originally posted by Mike33


                                                                        But when you talk about millions of years, you're asking for mass extrapolations, each of which come into question.
                                                                        And impossible to prove or disprove which is my hang up with the entire thing.


                                                                        Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life

                                                                        "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Johny Traffic
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Apr 2003
                                                                            • 5461
                                                                            #419
                                                                            wow this thread got long!
                                                                            It evolved


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                                                                              • Joe Citizen
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Oct 2003
                                                                                • 4552
                                                                                #420
                                                                                Originally posted by Mike33
                                                                                I stated 3 conditions in this beginnging of the thread upon which I would agree with the evolution as the explanation of all life as we see it and experience it today. If all these were met I would have no problem with it.

                                                                                But when you talk about millions of years, you're asking for mass extrapolations, each of which come into question.
                                                                                So you are saying evolution is impossible because it's been happening for too long?

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Drake
                                                                                    Hello world!
                                                                                    • Mar 2003
                                                                                    • 12508
                                                                                    #421
                                                                                    Originally posted by Johny Traffic
                                                                                    In 1492 a sailor called Christopher Columbus went sailing to discover new lands. The wisest and cleverist scientist of the day said he would fall off the side of the earth because it is flat. He didnt. They were wrong
                                                                                    Scientists can't be wrong according to these guys. Because just about all scientists are in agreement on a theory that is interesting and does provide hope for explanations (which is the bedrock of science), they cannot be wrong. You know, it is possible for everybody on earth to be wrong about something and a handful of people to be right.

                                                                                    Let's just summarize this by saying evolutionary theory is tentative. It holds promise and is the most likely explanation for what we see in the world. It is not absolutely certain, but worth investigating for years to come.

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • stocktrader23
                                                                                        Let's do some business.
                                                                                        • Jan 2003
                                                                                        • 18781
                                                                                        #422
                                                                                        Originally posted by Mike33
                                                                                        Scientists can't be wrong according to these guys. Because just about all scientists are in agreement on a theory that is interesting and does provide hope for explanations (which is the bedrock of science), they cannot be wrong. You know, it is possible for everybody on earth to be wrong about something and a handful of people to be right.

                                                                                        Let's just summarize this by saying evolutionary theory is tentative. It holds promise and is the most likely explanation for what we see in the world. It is not absolutely certain, but worth investigating for years to come.
                                                                                        I'll just choose God as my end all to this topic and leave it at that.


                                                                                        Hands Free Adult - Join Once, Earn For Life

                                                                                        "I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                          • Nysus
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • Aug 2001
                                                                                            • 7817
                                                                                            #423
                                                                                            Holy folks.

                                                                                            It's quite simple.

                                                                                            There is such a thing as intelligence, please don't deny it - and there are different levels of intelligence.

                                                                                            There are also things called comprehension, logic, and analysis skills.

                                                                                            If you lack in any of the 4 above then it will be hard for you to accept evolution.

                                                                                            I could counter ever argument in that it's a baseless reply because they're ignoring facts that were already put out in the thread.

                                                                                            Not being educated doesn't mean it doesn't exist - though that's 50% of American's problems. I wish Gore had run. Kerry was too soft.

                                                                                            Matt
                                                                                            What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

                                                                                            Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

                                                                                            See http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=16744521 and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=948645

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • Drake
                                                                                                Hello world!
                                                                                                • Mar 2003
                                                                                                • 12508
                                                                                                #424
                                                                                                Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                                                                                                So you are saying evolution is impossible because it's been happening for too long?
                                                                                                No I said if those 3 conditions could be met it's very possible.

                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                  • CET
                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                    • Jul 2003
                                                                                                    • 2754
                                                                                                    #425
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Mike33
                                                                                                    The moth experiment has been discredited. They discovered that their were two kinds of moths. It's not astounding that the dark moth that could not be seen would live while the one that stuck out like a sore thumb was picked off by predators.

                                                                                                    Fruit flies was interesting, but again, it only shows natural selection.
                                                                                                    EXACTLY!!! The darker moth survived better and perpetuated itself more in the are with darker trees, and vice versa. It was all about natural selection. Therefore it was NOT discredited, it was a display of natural selection. AGAIN, you've shown us that you really need to get educated in this subject if you want to discuss it and claim it is not scientific.

                                                                                                    There have been LOTS of experiments with fruit flies which showed evolution through natural selection. Pesticide companies do it constantly.
                                                                                                    Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!

                                                                                                    Fitness and nutrition writer, and UNIX/Linux Sys Ad in training

                                                                                                    "Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."

                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                      • Joe Citizen
                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                        • Oct 2003
                                                                                                        • 4552
                                                                                                        #426
                                                                                                        Originally posted by Mike33
                                                                                                        Scientists can't be wrong according to these guys.
                                                                                                        Sure they can. Lamarck was wrong.

                                                                                                        There are lots of discarded scientific theories... because they have been falsified by other scientists.

                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • theking
                                                                                                            Nice Kitty
                                                                                                            • Sep 2002
                                                                                                            • 21053
                                                                                                            #427
                                                                                                            Originally posted by CET
                                                                                                            I'm not going to make excuses for those who have not read the entire thread. Assholes are assholes.

                                                                                                            However, when the entire scientific community says "this is the best explaination we have of X," it's kind of arrogant to tell the entire scientific community that they don't know what they're talking about. I'm not going to tell me doctor he doesn't know what he's doing. These men and women spend their entire lives educating themselves on a subject that we get MAYBE one year of basic education in, and many of us don't even get that. Yet we're going to tell them that we know better then them?
                                                                                                            The consensus of the scientific community...not the entire scientific community...and I have told doctors that they did not know what they were doing...on several occasions...and I was proved to be correct...and yet I do not have any formal medical training.

                                                                                                            BTW...the scientific community is in flux in almost all areas of science (if not all)...and often discard parts of an old theory with what becomes to be deemed a better theory...thus what is accepted today may not be accepted at a later point in time.
                                                                                                            Last edited by theking; 11-05-2004, 04:18 AM.
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                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                              • CET
                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                • 2754
                                                                                                                #428
                                                                                                                Originally posted by stocktrader23
                                                                                                                Sorry, when their best explanation requires more assumptions than I can count I won't accept it at face value.
                                                                                                                READ THE SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE.
                                                                                                                Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!

                                                                                                                Fitness and nutrition writer, and UNIX/Linux Sys Ad in training

                                                                                                                "Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • Johny Traffic
                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                    • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                    • 5461
                                                                                                                    #429
                                                                                                                    You know the thing Im most supprised about is that the thread turned into a discusion about evolution and not the fact that 50% of Americans dont beleive it and dont want it taught in schools.

                                                                                                                    That frightens me. It looks like the religious wacos are taking over America.


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                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                      • CET
                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                        • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                        • 2754
                                                                                                                        #430
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Johny Traffic
                                                                                                                        In 1492 a sailor called Christopher Columbus went sailing to discover new lands. The wisest and cleverist scientist of the day said he would fall off the side of the earth because it is flat. He didnt. They were wrong
                                                                                                                        Not true, only uneducated peasants believed the earth was flat. The earth was proven to be round over 2,000 years before columbus sailed.
                                                                                                                        Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!

                                                                                                                        Fitness and nutrition writer, and UNIX/Linux Sys Ad in training

                                                                                                                        "Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."

                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                          • ADL Colin
                                                                                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                            • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                            • 11929
                                                                                                                            #431
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Johny Traffic
                                                                                                                            In 1492 a sailor called Christopher Columbus went sailing to discover new lands. The wisest and cleverist scientist of the day said he would fall off the side of the earth because it is flat. He didnt. They were wrong
                                                                                                                            This is a myth. The earth was known to not be flat since ancient Greece. Educated people of Columbus' day already knew this.


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                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                              • SlutFinder
                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                • Oct 2003
                                                                                                                                • 2273
                                                                                                                                #432
                                                                                                                                it would take me a year to read through this thread now!
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                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                  • ADL Colin
                                                                                                                                    Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                    • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                    • 11929
                                                                                                                                    #433
                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by CET
                                                                                                                                    Not true, only uneducated peasants believed the earth was flat. The earth was proven to be round over 2,000 years before columbus sailed.
                                                                                                                                    "Jinx" ;-)


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                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                      • CET
                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                        • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                        • 2754
                                                                                                                                        #434
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Mike33
                                                                                                                                        Scientists can't be wrong according to these guys.
                                                                                                                                        I call "bullshit" on your strawman argument! No one said that. The rest is null and void as a result.
                                                                                                                                        Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!

                                                                                                                                        Fitness and nutrition writer, and UNIX/Linux Sys Ad in training

                                                                                                                                        "Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."

                                                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                                                          • ADL Colin
                                                                                                                                            Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                            • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                            • 11929
                                                                                                                                            #435
                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Johny Traffic
                                                                                                                                            That frightens me. It looks like the religious wacos are taking over America.
                                                                                                                                            They just never went away.


                                                                                                                                            Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY!

                                                                                                                                            skype = "adultdatelink"

                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                              • CET
                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                                • 2754
                                                                                                                                                #436
                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by Colin
                                                                                                                                                This is a myth. The earth was known to not be flat since ancient Greece. Educated people of Columbus' day already knew this.
                                                                                                                                                The grecians got the idea of a round earth from the egyptians, who were able to measure the earth's circumfrence from a well at the equator and the length of a shadow cast by a pole. The measurement wasn't exact, but it was pretty damn close.
                                                                                                                                                Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!

                                                                                                                                                Fitness and nutrition writer, and UNIX/Linux Sys Ad in training

                                                                                                                                                "Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."

                                                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                                                  • Johny Traffic
                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                    • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                                                    • 5461
                                                                                                                                                    #437
                                                                                                                                                    This is a myth. The earth was known to not be flat since ancient Greece. Educated people of Columbus' day already knew this.
                                                                                                                                                    Point conceded. But the point I was trying to make is that what we think today isnt what we think tommorow, however clever we are.

                                                                                                                                                    To that end, the fact that Americans are turning to blind religious faith instead of science, is a worry. The most worrying part is that Biology teachers are under preasure not to even teach evolution in some places. Thats not healthy. It seems they are going backward not forward, as the recent election I think showed.

                                                                                                                                                    Seeing all those religious extremists on telly is a worry.


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                                                                                                                                                      • CET
                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                        • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                                        • 2754
                                                                                                                                                        #438
                                                                                                                                                        OK folks, it's way passed my bedtime. It's been fun and keep fighting the good fight. Just don't go for religious propoganda.

                                                                                                                                                        "In religion, to question is herasy. In science, to question is required." - Anonymous
                                                                                                                                                        Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!

                                                                                                                                                        Fitness and nutrition writer, and UNIX/Linux Sys Ad in training

                                                                                                                                                        "Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."

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                                                                                                                                                          • Nysus
                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                            • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                                            • 7817
                                                                                                                                                            #439
                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Mike33
                                                                                                                                                            No I said if those 3 conditions could be met it's very possible.
                                                                                                                                                            You should re-read this thread and put down the points people stated.

                                                                                                                                                            I'm curious though - assuming you're right, and 'evolution' doesn't exist ... who or what started the first micro-organism?

                                                                                                                                                            Did it just happen? Well, you need amino acids, and in the right environment, given MILLIONS or BILLIONS of tries, at some point they might combine, make a chemical reaction, and become living. And well, they did combine, and now after trillions of more alternate environments the strongest species have thrived.

                                                                                                                                                            Dinosaurs used to be the thriving species until (many theories still) their food source shrunk due to climate change so less food, or a big rock smashed into the earth throwing dust into the air, blocking out the sun for 2-3 years, which is why some believe alligators / crocs / etc. still exist from those times because it is known now (from research / observation) that their species can live without eating for 2, 3 even 4-5 years depending on their size WITHOUT FOOD; because they drop their heartrate.

                                                                                                                                                            So anyway, that's one case of evolution - alligators survived most other dinosaurs / species from the dinosaur age because of how their species evolved into (reptiles, cold blooded, which allowed them to almost stop their heart and conserve energy). Them surviving is evolution; they're alive now, and the other species are not (most of them anyway); that's what evolution is.

                                                                                                                                                            Mike - I think you're not understanding the definition of evolution.

                                                                                                                                                            Matt
                                                                                                                                                            What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

                                                                                                                                                            Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

                                                                                                                                                            See http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=16744521 and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=948645

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                                                                                                                                                              • ADL Colin
                                                                                                                                                                Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                                                • 11929
                                                                                                                                                                #440
                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by CET
                                                                                                                                                                The grecians got the idea of a round earth from the egyptians, who were able to measure the earth's circumfrence from a well at the equator and the length of a shadow cast by a pole. The measurement wasn't exact, but it was pretty damn close.
                                                                                                                                                                Erastothenes did that. He was Greek but lived in Alexandria which was technically Greek at the time because it has been conquered by Alexander - hence the name. Did an Egyptian do this before him?


                                                                                                                                                                Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY!

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                                                                                                                                                                  • Drake
                                                                                                                                                                    Hello world!
                                                                                                                                                                    • Mar 2003
                                                                                                                                                                    • 12508
                                                                                                                                                                    #441
                                                                                                                                                                    Nysus, will tackle this later. It's late here

                                                                                                                                                                    CET, Colin, Stock, Johnny, guys, nice discussion. I'm happy you can take what I gave you and support your arguments. Let us keep questioning.

                                                                                                                                                                    I will re-iterate. Science is the key as far as I'm concerned. I ONLY take issue with evolutionary theory. None of us are going to the stake because none of us are religious. This was merely a learning exercise. Thanks, and g'night phew

                                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                                      • ADL Colin
                                                                                                                                                                        Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                                                                                                        • Feb 2001
                                                                                                                                                                        • 11929
                                                                                                                                                                        #442
                                                                                                                                                                        Same here. Heading to the gym. Thanks for the discussion. See ya all later.

                                                                                                                                                                        Mike, try this book and let me know what you think. "The Ancestor's Tale" by Dawkins. Brand new.


                                                                                                                                                                        Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY!

                                                                                                                                                                        skype = "adultdatelink"

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                                                                                                                                                                          • sacX
                                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                            • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                                                                            • 2998
                                                                                                                                                                            #443
                                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Johny Traffic
                                                                                                                                                                            In 1492 a sailor called Christopher Columbus went sailing to discover new lands. The wisest and cleverist scientist of the day said he would fall off the side of the earth because it is flat. He didnt. They were wrong
                                                                                                                                                                            oh what i posted was already said.
                                                                                                                                                                            Last edited by sacX; 11-05-2004, 04:33 AM.
                                                                                                                                                                            Have Asian Language Traffic?

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                                                                                                                                                                              • Basic_man
                                                                                                                                                                                Programming King Pin
                                                                                                                                                                                • Oct 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                • 27360
                                                                                                                                                                                #444
                                                                                                                                                                                And 51% of them voted for Bush !
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                                                                                                                                                                                  • Joe Citizen
                                                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                    • Oct 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                    • 4552
                                                                                                                                                                                    #445

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                                                                                                                                                                                      • titmowse
                                                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                        • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                        • 5320
                                                                                                                                                                                        #446
                                                                                                                                                                                        it was a good thread.
                                                                                                                                                                                        I still love everybody

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                                                                                                                                                                                          • Joe Citizen
                                                                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                            • Oct 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                            • 4552
                                                                                                                                                                                            #447
                                                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by titmowse
                                                                                                                                                                                            it was a good thread.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Whenever there is another evolution thread we should just link to this one and save people the trouble.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                              • Johny Traffic
                                                                                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                • Apr 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                                • 5461
                                                                                                                                                                                                #448
                                                                                                                                                                                                This has been my longest thread so far

                                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks everyone, shame I couldnt push it over the ten page mark


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                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Nysus
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Aug 2001
                                                                                                                                                                                                    • 7817
                                                                                                                                                                                                    #449
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Mike33
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nysus, will tackle this later. It's late here

                                                                                                                                                                                                    ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                    I will re-iterate. Science is the key as far as I'm concerned. I ONLY take issue with evolutionary theory. None of us are going to the stake because none of us are religious. This was merely a learning exercise. Thanks, and g'night phew
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Okay, cool!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Just keep in mind, evolution doesn't require science, evolution is a definition of a process that says,

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form. See Synonyms at development.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. a) The process of developing. b) Gradual development.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    3. Biology. a) Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species. b) The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    4. A movement that is part of a set of ordered movements.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    5. Mathematics. The extraction of a root of a quantity.


                                                                                                                                                                                                    A definition doesn't require belief or not, it's just a definition of describing something, what all of the above states.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Good old Google for evolution resulted in this URL;

                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evol...efinition.html

                                                                                                                                                                                                    A quote from 1986 pretty well describes all variations of evolution;

                                                                                                                                                                                                    "In the broadest sense, evolution is merely change, and so is all-pervasive; galaxies, languages, and political systems all evolve. Biological evolution ... is change in the properties of populations of organisms that transcend the lifetime of a single individual. The ontogeny of an individual is not considered evolution; individual organisms do not evolve. The changes in populations that are considered evolutionary are those that are inheritable via the genetic material from one generation to the next. Biological evolution may be slight or substantial; it embraces everything from slight changes in the proportion of different alleles within a population (such as those determining blood types) to the successive alterations that led from the earliest protoorganism to snails, bees, giraffes, and dandelions."

                                                                                                                                                                                                    - Douglas J. Futuyma in Evolutionary Biology, Sinauer Associates 1986

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hope this helps some.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Matt
                                                                                                                                                                                                    What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

                                                                                                                                                                                                    See http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=16744521 and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=948645

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Danny_C
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • Feb 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • 2160
                                                                                                                                                                                                        #450
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Mike33
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Btw, rejecting Evolutionary theory does not mean one is rejecting science. I'm a firm believer in science. Biology, astrology, chemistry, math, physics. Those are all wonderful sciences.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        The problem with evolution is that it's based on millions of unverifiable assumptions of which few if any have actually been demonstrated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Perhaps you should read more about science. The only scientists who reject evolution are the Christian ones. Evolution is 100% proven.

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