WARNING iBill EU Now Failing to Pay ! - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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evo_t

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#1

WARNING iBill EU Now Failing to Pay !

11-04-2004, 11:06 PM

We moved to iBillEU after the collapse of iBill's US billing solution. In good faith we moved our rebills across before the end of September and were cleared for payment.

iBill told us yesterday that they collected all the money for rebills in October through iBill EU but have no intention of paying us unless we start sending them new signups.

After all the bullshit they spouted this week of wanting to build trust with there clients, they then go and do a shitty trick like this.

So the bottom line is Ibill will not pay out unless you continue to send them new business, they did not inform me of this at any stage, they have taken money from my customers with absolutely no intention of paying out. In Europe that would be fraud, obviously it isn't the same in the USA.

I have all the emails and communications regarding this if anyone at iBill cares to comment, and this fact is CLEARLY stated.

So much for a new start with iBill, so a WARNING to everyone who is owed money, you have no chance of getting anything unless you keep sending them new signups. So do you keep digging a bigger financial hole or cut your losses ????
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Drake

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#2

11-04-2004, 11:10 PM

Are all the EU people that have been paid still sending new joins?
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evo_t

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#3

11-04-2004, 11:13 PM

I would be interested to know this. However I have an email from iBill clearly stating that unless you send them new signups they will set your account to 'not pay'
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onceapilgrim

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#4

11-04-2004, 11:46 PM

All the above is right. I've had my account put on do not pay by ibill because I've stopped taking new joins through them.

Kevin Cunningham told me that they wouldnt pay me the 10k they owe me until my account is taking money again.

I'm not sure if it's legal and I'm currently looking at eu banking and online transaction regs to see if there's anything I can do to fuck ibill up.

The EU clients should not have been effected by the first data situation because ibill eu uses a different clearence bank. But they publically stated on the cmi that eu payments had been stopped because of the situation with first data.
I think this boils down to fraud.
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#5

11-05-2004, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by evo_t
I would be interested to know this. However I have an email from iBill clearly stating that unless you send them new signups they will set your account to 'not pay'

Its so stupid; "hey, I owe you money, but you have to give me more before I pay you.."

Make no sense at all, and as affiliate (EU) I have not got payments in longer time, so why the hell should I continue promote Ibill sites then? I guess Im not the only affiliate who stop promoting Ibill sites these days, and shortly Ibill paysites will be without promoters at all. How can you generate enough signups then?
It will go down big time, and promising payouts months into future does not help shit. You loose lots of loyal affiliates, there are enough other sites out there to promote
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#6

11-05-2004, 12:19 AM

eeeewww........nasty..... as in if what u said is true

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#7

11-05-2004, 12:23 AM

Why doesn't everyone use this to go after these cockholsters legally? Damn what a slap in the face.

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evo_t

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#8

11-05-2004, 02:10 AM

We are looking into the legal position regarding EU and fraud. If the laws in the EU allow then we will be seeking appropriate sanctions against iBill within Europe.
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#9

11-05-2004, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by Dirty Dane
Its so stupid; "hey, I owe you money, but you have to give me more before I pay you.."

aren't there laws to protect businesses against this?
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#10

11-05-2004, 02:12 AM

keep us updated
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#11

11-05-2004, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by Dirty Dane
Its so stupid; "hey, I owe you money, but you have to give me more before I pay you.."

Extortion?

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evo_t

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#12

11-05-2004, 02:21 AM

I will let everyone know what happens. Seems like iBill's word is worth shit.
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#13

11-05-2004, 02:22 AM

i have a good friend who is going to be extremely upset when he sees this thread upon awakening... what shit news, what a fucked up company..

...promise her a defamation, tell her where the rain will fall..
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Jack76

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#14

11-05-2004, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by Mike33
Are all the EU people that have been paid still sending new joins?

I switched to Ccbill on 24th September. Just after Ibill didn't released the payment on time. But I left them as a secondary processor. I sent them clients dinied by Ccbill and I got few joins through Ibill. I received all money wires in September and October except reserves. I have no idea if these few signups had an importance. I also have no idea if I get any wire in November.

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keyboard warrior

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#15

11-05-2004, 03:32 AM

Now you know how the USA webmaster feels.

Grab that taste of IBILL!

- nothing here -
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Jack76

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#16

11-05-2004, 03:36 AM

Originally posted by evo_t
So the bottom line is Ibill will not pay out unless you continue to send them new business, they did not inform me of this at any stage, they have taken money from my customers with absolutely no intention of paying out.

Ibill already officially announced it.
Go to http://www.ibill.com/about/faq/conferencecall.cfm
They wrote:
"[...]If an account is sending no new transactions, it is considered a closed account and monies and reserves will be held for 6 months as is standard on closed accounts. If the account is sending any transactions, it will be considered an active account and paid out all transactions beginning Nov 1 ? Nov 15 on Dec 1 as well as receiving the first of payouts on monies owed Dec 1.[...]"

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Nysus

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#17

11-05-2004, 05:13 AM

It's in the contract you sign with IBill.. somewhat shitty if you didn't know but you can't blame a company for protecting themselves for possible mass-migration and then instantly losing a lot of revenue without first allowing themselves time (from a disaster or fuck up, their fault or uncontrollable) to re-organize and adjust. It's extremely smart of them.

And as Jack76 just posted..

Originally posted by Jack76
Ibill already officially announced it.
Go to http://www.ibill.com/about/faq/conferencecall.cfm
They wrote:
"[...]If an account is sending no new transactions, it is considered a closed account and monies and reserves will be held for 6 months as is standard on closed accounts. If the account is sending any transactions, it will be considered an active account and paid out all transactions beginning Nov 1 ? Nov 15 on Dec 1 as well as receiving the first of payouts on monies owed Dec 1.[...]"

No new transactions = closed account, and they'll hold the money for 6 months.

Or, you could send "1" new signup, get your money, and then you'll wait 6 months for the money owed from the "1" sale - if you're really that concerned..

There's a solution to every problem, it's just being able to realize it.

Sorry IBill if I gave away 'good advice' / bad for you, I don't mean any harm and hope none comes of it, though it's a logical way to have your account not be considered closed and therefore get money owed. Just

Matt

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NetRodent

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#18

11-05-2004, 05:19 AM

A somewhat sleazy move but understandable. The simple way out is to send them a couple of signups and be done with it.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
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Nysus

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#19

11-05-2004, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by NetRodent
A somewhat sleazy move but understandable. The simple way out is to send them a couple of signups and be done with it.

EVERY company who's going to last / survive has these clauses - IBill likely WOULD be dead now if they had to legally pay a lot of the mass-migration payments.

Mind you, that clause is being a bit stretched in the sense that most of the money owed to people was created while their accounts WERE ACTIVE, and should have been paid out but weren't.

So yeah, it's a somewhat sleazy technicallity though it will help keep them alive, will give them additional funds over the next 6 months to use - and I can imagine if IBill didn't do anything wrong, they will sue FirstData for damages - which sounds to me like it's in the $100ks per day of lost business, and therefore a decent % of revenues lost.

Matt

What name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now

Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*

See http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=16744521 and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=948645
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#20

11-05-2004, 05:45 AM

fuck

epassporte are assholes with bad service and no fraud protection, they are based offshore in st kitts so they cant be sued when they fuck you over
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#21

11-05-2004, 06:04 AM

I actually find this funny. Where are all the IBILL ass kissers now. What a fucking Joke.
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#22

11-05-2004, 06:05 AM

What you have to wonder is whether IBill had a clause in the \ir contract with FirstData that ensures they get informed of a cancellation of contract. If it was there how long was it for and why did IBill strat working to replace FirstData or inform their clients to start moving their processing.

If it was not in the contract, WTF are they doing running a company processing OTHER peoples money?

If it was in there and FisrtData broke it, seems like they will get their arses chewed off in court.

But IBill has always been one of the last people I would trust my money with.

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#23

11-05-2004, 06:06 AM

Oups, big drama timez :S

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evo_t

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#24

11-05-2004, 06:57 AM

We actually did process new transactions with iBill during October in addition to the rebills but iBill put them through our old US account.

We fully intend to continue with them as a backup but don't think its too unreasonable to expect them to show good faith and pay something out !
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#25

11-05-2004, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by evo_t
I will let everyone know what happens. Seems like iBill's word is worth shit.

I have said this now in multiple threads. ibill is just stalling everyone while they are fillling Bankruptcy They have miss managed and spent all the owed money. The next month or 2 will tell the real story.

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#26

11-05-2004, 07:27 AM

Kevin is the best thing that happened to ibill in a while, hes a great guy and he gets shit done, but like any employee he needs to follow what the boss tells him.

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#27

11-05-2004, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by evo_t
We actually did process new transactions with iBill during October in addition to the rebills but iBill put them through our old US account.

We fully intend to continue with them as a backup but don't think its too unreasonable to expect them to show good faith and pay something out !

Get out while you still can and get an european lawyer to sue them in europe as fast as possible before they go down.

You could also threaten them with chargebacks but not everybody wants to go down to the same blackmailing level as they do.
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#28

11-05-2004, 07:37 AM

Where are " SinCity" and " Lawyersucks".... ?????

Even if I wanted to send them new join, there fucking joins were comong back like this ( got email from client ):

Tried to join thru ibill. But the link under Instant Purchase said Invalid Form Data. Any advise?

And I wont give them 1500.00 while they " hold" my money....

I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....
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#29

11-05-2004, 07:40 AM

I hate those fuckers with a passion.
I hope they lose every penny they have. Fucking iBill sucks!

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#30

11-05-2004, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by EscortBiz
Kevin is the best thing that happened to ibill in a while, hes a great guy and he gets shit done, but like any employee he needs to follow what the boss tells him.

Isn't today Kevin's last day?
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#31

11-05-2004, 08:21 AM

yeah you watch they will say that you need to send them at least 1 new person a day.

this is stupid if they close an account they loose all the rebills and loose even more money

is ANYONE going to suddenly give them more business in the hope that come dec 1st they will pay out. they promised a payout oct and didnt deliver. I wonder what decemebers excuse will be?

burn me once , shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.

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evo_t

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#32

11-05-2004, 08:28 AM

Does anyone kow if iBillEU has a registerd office within the EU and what European Bank actually processes for iBillEU ?
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#33

11-05-2004, 08:39 AM

WAKE UP! - I left iBill and haven't looked back!
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#34

11-05-2004, 08:40 AM

ouch
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#35

11-05-2004, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by evo_t
Does anyone kow if iBillEU has a registerd office within the EU and what European Bank actually processes for iBillEU ?

I'm pretty sure iBill's office is in Gibralter. The bank is Bank Leumi.

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test44

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#36

11-05-2004, 11:22 AM

The vast majority of all EU clients are receiving normal payouts. A very small # of clients whose accounts have been closed and are not actively sending transactions are pending risk analysis for payout. These clients will begin to receive monies as soon as this analysis is completed.

evo_t - contact me at [email protected] and we'll take care of this issue
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#37

11-05-2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by test44
The vast majority of all EU clients are receiving normal payouts. A very small # of clients whose accounts have been closed and are not actively sending transactions are pending risk analysis for payout. These clients will begin to receive monies as soon as this analysis is completed.

evo_t - contact me at [email protected] and we'll take care of this issue

what about affiliates????
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#38

11-05-2004, 11:39 AM

onceapilgrim:

All the above is right. I've had my account put on do not pay by ibill because I've stopped taking new joins through them.

Kevin Cunningham told me that they wouldnt pay me the 10k they owe me until my account is taking money again.

I'm not sure if it's legal and I'm currently looking at eu banking and online transaction regs to see if there's anything I can do to fuck ibill up.

The EU clients should not have been effected by the first data situation because ibill eu uses a different clearence bank. But they publically stated on the cmi that eu payments had been stopped because of the situation with first data.
I think this boils down to fraud.

Pilgrim... this is "not the way it's going to be" - is it?? :-)

I'd suggest you drop Kevin an email (and copies to Charles Pratt and any other names at iBill), requesting an immediate confirmation that all money will be paid within a reasonable period, - 30 days seems fine.

If this is not forthcoming or you have not had a response within seven days, - immediately send a written claim to iBill and file a claim for the amount, plus all costs and interest in the County Court in the UK.

This is under the assumption that fraud is not an issue - if it is, or there is a prospect of this, - give iBill a little bit of rope and gather all paperwork you have and pass this over as a possible criminal action.

No person with iBillEU has any reason not to be paid as normal.

Last edited by Webby; 11-05-2004, 11:43 AM.

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#39

11-05-2004, 11:40 AM

sue sue sue before its too too too late
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#40

11-05-2004, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by test44
The vast majority of all EU clients are receiving normal payouts. A very small # of clients whose accounts have been closed and are not actively sending transactions are pending risk analysis for payout. These clients will begin to receive monies as soon as this analysis is completed.

evo_t - contact me at [email protected] and we'll take care of this issue

Meanwhile back in the USA webmasters are being fucked royally.

Don't waste your traffic on Ibill send it to Epoch or CCbill, Ibill will not recover from this one mark my words

.
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#41

11-05-2004, 11:56 AM

ha ha, please don't tell me you're fucking shocked by any of this?

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#42

11-05-2004, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by test44
The vast majority of all EU clients are receiving normal payouts. A very small # of clients whose accounts have been closed and are not actively sending transactions are pending risk analysis for payout. These clients will begin to receive monies as soon as this analysis is completed.

evo_t - contact me at [email protected] and we'll take care of this issue

Wow evo_t finally got a response I wonder if

"Does anyone kow if iBillEU has a registerd office within the EU and what European Bank actually processes for iBillEU ?"

Hit a nerve
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#43

11-05-2004, 12:02 PM

The other side of this coin is all the ranting here about how people were going to tell their users to charge back to hurt Ibill. I don't think it's entirely inappropriate for Ibill to hold dormant accounts in light of this. It's in the contract in any event.

For those of us still actively processing with Ibill I would hope they would help us return to a state of normalcy as soon as possible. Does anyone know when the next payout is? I read the FAQ but there are some gaffes there and it is not clear (ie when is Nov 31st?) when payday is.

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