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Rick Latona

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#1

Free Trials - Who gives a fuck?

03-09-2004, 04:29 PM

Free Trials - Who gives a fuck?

I see many of you asking for free trials this and free trials that. Let me tell you something, if you are asking for their credit card number you still have to have a good product to get the join.

If someone has a paid trial but excellent content they get joins. It's simple as that.

It just blows my mind that so many webmasters only want to send to people that offer free trials.

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Rick Latona
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Wizzo

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#2

03-09-2004, 04:30 PM

Well said... $1 trials do much better in my experience...

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#3

03-09-2004, 04:30 PM

You know any good sites with free trials?

I'm about to open the "BitTorrent of Porn!"

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Rick Latona

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#4

03-09-2004, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Wizzo
Well said... $1 trials do much better in my experience...

My sites are all 1 dollar trials. If the customer is interested they will pay 1 dollar. If you are trying to sell your site on price rather than content your disorriented focus will cause you to have a crappy product in the long run or at least not as good of a product as you could have if your focus was better targeted. IMHO.

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Rick Latona

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#5

03-09-2004, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by cluck
You know any good sites with free trials?

I'm about to open the "BitTorrent of Porn!"

I hope you are kidding.

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Rick Latona
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#6

03-09-2004, 04:34 PM

i agree, they want to see a site that will get them off. not a free trial with some crappy site.

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#7

03-09-2004, 04:36 PM

Ive always felt that if they gotta take out the card anyway, you might as well hit them up for a few bucks.

Still one of the best programs on the net.

According to their banner, you can get rich.
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#8

03-09-2004, 04:37 PM

But seriously, $5 trials have done fine for me. As long as the members area is good you'll usually get the rebill too.

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#9

03-09-2004, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona
Free Trials - Who gives a fuck?

I see many of you asking for free trials this and free trials that. Let me tell you something, if you are asking for their credit card number you still have to have a good product to get the join.

If someone has a paid trial but excellent content they get joins. It's simple as that.

It just blows my mind that so many webmasters only want to send to people that offer free trials.

I?m going to have to disagree I have tried many sites and many programs.
You need to have good content but you also need a good promotion to get them interested.
Free is just one way or a lifetime membership etc.

The reason our Porn4abuck is successful is because they have the opportunity to surf through the sites without any pressure of buying or paying alot upfront.

Just like when you test drive cars. Which dealerships would you go to the ones that charge you to test drive or the ones that are free..?

Even thought the word Free is very over used it?s still effective.

but I will say full price has also worked for alot of sites so what do I know.

I guess it depends on volume and the traffic

Last edited by Pornkings; 03-09-2004, 04:45 PM.

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#10

03-09-2004, 04:40 PM

how about no trials!
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#11

03-09-2004, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona
Free Trials - Who gives a fuck?

I see many of you asking for free trials this and free trials that. Let me tell you something, if you are asking for their credit card number you still have to have a good product to get the join.

If someone has a paid trial but excellent content they get joins. It's simple as that.

It just blows my mind that so many webmasters only want to send to people that offer free trials.

And it just blows my mind how many program owners will buy through EZ clicks free trial sign ups to their program where the visitor doesn?t even look at the site before they buy. Its just an after thought for the few people that actually stop to think should I uncheck that free offer. Explain the difference to me.
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#12

03-09-2004, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona
Free Trials - Who gives a fuck?

It just blows my mind that so many webmasters only want to send to people that offer free trials.

Beacuse they convert alot better than 4.99 trials.
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#13

03-09-2004, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Pornkings

I?m going to have to disagree I have tried many sites and many programs.
You need to have good content but you also need a good promotion to get them interested.
Free is just one way or a lifetime membership etc.

The reason our Porn4abuck is successful is because they have the opportunity to surf through the sites without any pressure of buying.

Just like when you test drive cars. Which dealerships would you go to the ones that charge you to test drive or the ones that are free..?

Even thought the word Free is very over used it?s still effective.

I agree that it is sometimes an effective marketing tool. I'm talking about the webmasters perspective. What's chapping my ass is a webmaster who will ONLY send traffic to free trials.

They don't even take the time to compare programs. We all know that there are many paid trial sponsors out there that can convert better than free trials and these guys are closed minded and just looking for the scam.

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Rick Latona
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#14

03-09-2004, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Sylver7

Beacuse they convert alot better than 4.99 trials.

A free trial will only ALWAYS convert better than a 4.99 trial if the same site offers both as an option.

You cannot say that site A for free will ALWAYS convert better than site B for 4.99.

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#15

03-09-2004, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona

We all know that there are many paid trial sponsors out there that can convert better than free trials and these guys are closed minded and just looking for the scam.

Give me one sponsor that is going to covert better that 1:150 or less across different traffic sources..
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#16

03-09-2004, 04:46 PM

sending only to free trials is not smart from many perspectives.

Yesterday I asked for some gay paysites with free trials in order to avoid resubmiting some grandfathered listings in a SE. T

here's no doubt though that free trials are much easier to be promoted. Also there are traffic sources exclusively for free trials.
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#17

03-09-2004, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
sending only to free trials is not smart from many perspectives.

That's true and eventually (soon probably) i believe free trials will only be used by sponsors with their house account but there is no doubt that they convert better than paid trials.
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Rick Latona

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#18

03-09-2004, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Sylver7

Give me one sponsor that is going to covert better that 1:150 or less across different traffic sources..

Accross different traffic sources? Well, that's why I always ask people if they are asking because they have a certain type of traffic or if they just blanket feel that free is better.

I agree that there are some traffic sources that require the "free trial" pitch. For example, on www.freakhole.com we do better with the free trial pitch.

But on consumptionjunction.com the free trial pitch gets me nowhere because the consumer is savvy on that site.

All I am saying is that it is wrong to ONLY promote free trial sponsors.

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#19

03-09-2004, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona

I agree that it is sometimes an effective marketing tool. I'm talking about the webmasters perspective. What's chapping my ass is a webmaster who will ONLY send traffic to free trials.

They don't even take the time to compare programs. We all know that there are many paid trial sponsors out there that can convert better than free trials and these guys are closed minded and just looking for the scam.

I agree

there really is no rhyme or rhythm to it.

I have site that in my eyes look like shit and they convert better then sites that look great.

If we knew what formula worked on everyone we would all be converting 1/1 LOL

I tweak the sites and prices all the time to see what works and to this day. the $1 trial for a month works for us the best.
next step will be a $5 trial for a month.

webmasters need to try out all the programs and work with sponsors to convert there traffic the best. until they find the right match. which is an ongoing process

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#20

03-09-2004, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona

A free trial will only ALWAYS convert better than a 4.99 trial if the same site offers both as an option.

You cannot say that site A for free will ALWAYS convert better than site B for 4.99.

A crappy cookie cutter site with non exclusive content and a $49.95 re-bill will out convert a high quality reality site with exclusive content that offers a $1 3 day trial and $24.95 re-bill. Right or wrong and despite what most people will tell you people like to be sold. They like to think they are getting something for nothing. Where some programs have made a mistake with the free trials is sticking with the cookie cutter sites, non exclusive content and the $49.95 re-bill. You have give them a reason to stay once you get them in the door. The free trial model has seemed to work great for Netflix.
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Rick Latona

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#21

03-09-2004, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Kingfish

A crappy cookie cutter site with non exclusive content and a $49.95 re-bill will out convert a high quality reality site with exclusive content that offers a $1 3 day trial and $24.95 re-bill. Right or wrong and despite what most people will tell you people like to be sold. They like to think they are getting something for nothing. Where some programs have made a mistake with the free trials is sticking with the cookie cutter sites, non exclusive content and the $49.95 re-bill. You have give them a reason to stay once you get them in the door. The free trial model has seemed to work great for Netflix.

That's a close minded perspective that is costing you money. At our company we don't wait for the banners to do the selling. We sell the product.

Go to http://www.consumptionjunction.com/c...1&Page=1&fav=0

That isn't the greatest example just one we threw up today for a customer. We aren't selling the price we are selling the content.

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#22

03-09-2004, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona

That's a close minded perspective that is costing you money. At

It seems that you are assuming that people that push free trials have never tried any other methods of advertising. I have tried several and continue to try more each day but for me there is nothing that converts better.
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#23

03-09-2004, 05:04 PM

For some its easier to sell free trials, but most salesmen can sell even a full month.

Free trials lead to cancels and high chargebacks when they realize their memberships rolled into pay.

Not really a good situation for anyone.

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#24

03-09-2004, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona

It just blows my mind that so many webmasters only want to send to people that offer free trials.

100% agree
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Rick Latona

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#25

03-09-2004, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Sylver7

It seems that you are assuming that people that push free trials have never tried any other methods of advertising. I have tried several and continue to try more each day but for me there is nothing that converts better.

You are right. I'll slow down. I don't mean to sound like I'm assuming you aren't a professional. Where do you get your traffic from?

The only thing I see in your sig is a hosting company? Usually free trials work the best in Bulk Email.

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#26

03-09-2004, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Sylver7

It seems that you are assuming that people that push free trials have never tried any other methods of advertising. I have tried several and continue to try more each day but for me there is nothing that converts better.

Have you tried Pornkings Porn4abuck?

all the sites have a $1 trial membership for a full month.

It converts better then our free trials but not sure about other sponsors.

Pornkings.com
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#27

03-09-2004, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona

That's a close minded perspective that is costing you money. At our company we don't wait for the banners to do the selling. We sell the product.

Go to http://www.consumptionjunction.com/c...1&Page=1&fav=0

That isn't the greatest example just one we threw up today for a customer. We aren't selling the price we are selling the content.

I have sold both free and paid trials. There are many different ways to sell a product. Some consumers are price buyers and some consumers only want the best exclusive content and are willing to pay for it up front. It is close minded to leave sign-ups on the table. Simply stated (there are exceptions) free trials are a different market than paid trials.
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#28

03-09-2004, 05:08 PM

If you can't sell a full membership, get the fuck out of the game.
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#29

03-09-2004, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by shermsshack
If you can't sell a full membership, get the fuck out of the game.

LOL
If you can't market free trials sell memberships.
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#30

03-09-2004, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona

You are right. I'll slow down. I don't mean to sound like I'm assuming you aren't a professional. Where do you get your traffic from?

The only thing I see in your sig is a hosting company? Usually free trials work the best in Bulk Email.

I drive traffic from all angles. TGP,FREE,AVS,PPC. ETC.
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#31

03-09-2004, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Sylver7

LOL
If you can't market free trials sell memberships.

Why not market something that will give you income month after month, rather than a trial that'll cancel in 3 hours.

If the payout for a free trial seems too good to be true, it probably is. That's where you'll find "shaving", chargebacks and all of that other good shit.

If the program has an option, I always choose to turn free trials off. It's just not worth the trouble.
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Rick Latona

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#32

03-09-2004, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Sylver7

I drive traffic from all angles. TGP,FREE,AVS,PPC. ETC.

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. Who are your top Sponsors?

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#33

03-09-2004, 05:18 PM

I have to agree with Rick.. Although Pornkings have a point about a good marketing skeem, when the free trials first started it was a good marketing skeem but now even surfers can say .. Been there done that so I will pass.

Surfers are smart and surfer looks for quality...

Bottom line it's your company as a sponsor to choose what you want to do.. But I honestly think that the way a sponsors goes out to get business tells a lot about them.

I can name a few big ones that have been around for a long time and once you see there quality sites and content well you know why they still around.

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#34

03-09-2004, 05:23 PM

It's all about whatever makes you the most money. If you make the most with paid trials, excellent. That's why this business is so great. There are tons of revenue streams and methods and you can tap one or several and use what pays you the most.
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Rick Latona

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#35

03-09-2004, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Sylver7
It's all about whatever makes you the most money. If you make the most with paid trials, excellent. That's why this business is so great. There are tons of revenue streams and you can tap one or several and use what pays you the most.

Who are your top sponsors?

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Rick Latona
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#36

03-09-2004, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona

Who are your top sponsors?

I use 3 or 4 for free trials. I'm not going to list them but it wouldn't be that hard to figure out.
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#37

03-09-2004, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by JMan
I have to agree with Rick.. Although Pornkings have a point about a good marketing skeem, when the free trials first started it was a good marketing skeem but now even surfers can say .. Been there done that so I will pass.

Surfers are smart and surfer looks for quality...

Bottom line it's your company as a sponsor to choose what you want to do.. But I honestly think that the way a sponsors goes out to get business tells a lot about them.

I can name a few big ones that have been around for a long time and once you see there quality sites and content well you know why they still around.

Right on we try to give all options for the webmasters to promote us and make them the most money we can off there traffic.

Its our job to make sure the surfers are happy with there purchase

Our main focus has always been paysites since 96 and we are still kicking strong. not to many companys around since 96

Pornkings.com
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#38

03-09-2004, 05:28 PM

Free trials are about the math. It's very simple.

Say you take 1000 hits and you send them to a free trial site. Say that 10 of them convert.

Say you take that same 1000 hits and you send them to a paid trial site.
Say that 5 of them convert.

Now if the retention is equal then you've just kept twice as many rebills using the free trial method as the paid trial method. So if the same quality site offers a free trial and a paid trial they should make more money overall with the free trial...

Another benefit of a free trial? You have a surfer pre-authorized for the full amount of his rebill before he gets in the door. You'd be amazed how many people have 3 bucks in their account to get a trial approval but 5 days later don't have 30 to actually have the rebill run...

Keep in mind these numbers are only used to make my math simple.

The chargeback arguments aren't as simple, and they can be skewed very easily, but the basic premise above is the reason for free trials if you look at it from a purely economic standpoint.
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Rick Latona

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#39

03-09-2004, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Sylver7

I use 3 or 4 for free trials. I'm not going to list them but it wouldn't be that hard to figure out.

I'm asking because I wonder how much traffic you can get from galleries and AVS programs using those sponsors.

For example, you may have a great conversion ratio but your click thru ratio could suck and many sites wouldn't even list your galleries if the content wasn't great.

On PPC engines, your theory is sound.

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Rick Latona
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#40

03-09-2004, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona

I'm asking because I wonder how much traffic you can get from galleries and AVS programs using those sponsors.

For example, you may have a great conversion ratio but your click thru ratio could suck and many sites wouldn't even list your galleries if the content wasn't great.

On PPC engines, your theory is sound.

I'm not sure why you would think that free trial advertising =" shitty content" or that a webmaster wouldn't get listed using free trial sponsors" True, some site owners despise free trials and wont list your sites if you have "free trial" on your content page but for those you send them to a custom fpa before they click to the sponsor. As far as click through ratios i haven't found anything that draws better clicks than the word "FREE" although surfers are more jaded then they used to be.
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#41

03-09-2004, 05:55 PM

Don't be hatin Rick.

PornDollar has FREE Trials.

Amateur POV Hardcore sites.. 20 sites total..

all we are sayin.. is free a chance...

I stay busy.
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#42

03-09-2004, 05:58 PM

WE have them as well, but i personally prefer having people send through the paid trials. There is not that much difference in sales, and the payouts are greater. Better over all for the company as well.

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#43

03-09-2004, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by SoundMan
how about no trials!

You want $45 Per Signup?

LMK

I stay busy.
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Rick Latona

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#44

03-09-2004, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Free trials are about the math. It's very simple.

Say you take 1000 hits and you send them to a free trial site. Say that 10 of them convert.

Another benefit of a free trial? You have a surfer pre-authorized for the full amount of his rebill before he gets in the door. You'd be amazed how many people have 3 bucks in their account to get a trial approval but 5 days later don't have 30 to actually have the rebill run...

Now there is bonifide wisdom from someone in the processing business. That's the best argument I've heard yet.

Regards,

Rick Latona
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#45

03-09-2004, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by PornDollar
Don't be hatin Rick.

PornDollar has FREE Trials.

Amateur POV Hardcore sites.. 20 sites total..

all we are sayin.. is free a chance...

I am not hatin' on programs that offer free trials rather webmasters who refuse to send to anything but free trials.

I know you and I know that you offer free trials and stay below 1% because you have a good member's area. You are one program that does it right so hats off...

Regards,

Rick Latona
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#46

03-09-2004, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by Rick Latona

I am not hatin' on programs that offer free trials rather webmasters who refuse to send to anything but free trials.

I know you and I know that you offer free trials and stay below 1% because you have a good member's area. You are one program that does it right so hats off...

Much love dude..

I stay busy.
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#47

03-09-2004, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Free trials are about the math. It's very simple.

Say you take 1000 hits and you send them to a free trial site. Say that 10 of them convert.

Say you take that same 1000 hits and you send them to a paid trial site.
Say that 5 of them convert.

Now if the retention is equal then you've just kept twice as many rebills using the free trial method as the paid trial method. So if the same quality site offers a free trial and a paid trial they should make more money overall with the free trial...

Another benefit of a free trial? You have a surfer pre-authorized for the full amount of his rebill before he gets in the door. You'd be amazed how many people have 3 bucks in their account to get a trial approval but 5 days later don't have 30 to actually have the rebill run...

Keep in mind these numbers are only used to make my math simple.

The chargeback arguments aren't as simple, and they can be skewed very easily, but the basic premise above is the reason for free trials if you look at it from a purely economic standpoint.

Retention is not equal.
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Ash@phpFX

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#48

03-09-2004, 06:46 PM

i agree, free trials are overrated, i think many people who join them are tight-arses who dont want to spend a cent, and im pulling this straight out of my arse but i wouold guess $1 and $5 would convert to full memberships at a better ratio
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Sylver7

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#49

03-09-2004, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by asher
i agree, free trials are overrated, i think many people who join them are tight-arses who dont want to spend a cent, and im pulling this straight out of my arse but i wouold guess $1 and $5 would convert to full memberships at a better ratio

Or maybe they are surfers that are tired of paying to join a shitty pay site and want to check out the content first.

There really isn't a right answer. Surfers are on all different levels.
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SleazyDream

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#50

03-09-2004, 06:59 PM

trials are based in the idea of tricking a surfer or having them forget to cancel. it isn't about buying the product and being upfront with the real cost. profit from billing tricks.

it's a bad business model and one of the factors that is leading the industry down the rocky visa road.

This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog!

Now read without the word dog.
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