its hard to break such a deeply embedded cultural tradition. image the women's rights movement in america. it took many years to complete. and chauvenist additudes still abound.
something like this is deeper and will be MUCH harder to change.
Originally posted by KRL Why don't they stand up for their rights and stop letting men pull this restrictive bullshit lifestyle on them under the guise of religion?
Maybe they agree with the men? Maybe they don't believe they have equal rights?
I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do,
I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.
a lot of reasons, and some of it is merely called free will...shocking as it may seem...
many of them I'm guessing are doing it for reasons of percieved security, or a matter of choice...
that brainiac we have in office now has some dillusion that Iraqi's want a purely democratic country...WOW can we say OUT OF TOUCH...they will vote in a theocracy...
as will many other countries in that region if 'liberated' and allowed to 'democratically' pick a new leader...they will themselves by their own actions replicate what they have now...
in most cases...
how this is not understood on a wide level in the western world still shocks me, we think our way is the only best way that EVERYONE wants...when in fact, people often like what they have even if it sucks, cuz it's 'theirs'...
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Originally posted by KRL Maybe so, but inherently, we are much like animals and are all born with an inate instinctive understanding and desire to have freedom and liberty.
If you were a woman in Afganistan, and you had always been fully covered, do you think you would automatically toss it off and just start walking around normally?
Keep in mind that 99% of people are not leaders.
Afgan women will more likely take baby steps towards slowly wearing less. Old habits die hard.
you know how many people in this country are willing to give up 'freedom' for security?
one of the arguments from an Islamic perspective is that women covering themselves in public is to proect themselves on many levels...and others...from impure thoughts, actions, etc...
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a man from afghan must walk around the US with a full on boner... like imagine going from seeing that normally, then going to your average US mall where women are hardly dressed.
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regardless of the glowing reports of impending democracy, things aren't much different better in afghanistan than they were under taliban rule. read this:
"Despite the flow of the three billion dollars donated (though not at all comparable with the $26 billion donated to Iraq), so far, nothing significant in reconstruction has been observed in Afghanistan. According to the Minister of Planning, that amount could change Afghanistan. A major percentage of this money has been channeled directly into the pockets of the warlords, who are also swiping billions of dollars through drug trafficking. They have turned into monsters that commit any crime they wish under the very eye of ISAF and American forces. Undoubtedly, setting up the election would be all too easy for them."
much of it is also religion based. If they think Allah wants them that way they will stay that way whether they want to or not.
when I went to Egypt ( a very progressive country as far as muslims go )a couple of years ago there were a lot of smokehouses/bars that would not serve women. Also if we went into a mosque if the women had short sleave shirts or shorts on ( and they all did it was 135 degrees ) they had to get a robe an cover up to enter.
It's hard to change someone when they think god is telling them to be that way.
What was wrong with American women before 1920? Women in America didn't have the full right to vote until 1920.
I think it's a bit much to expect Afgan women to cast off their burqas the second the Taliban were removed. Regime change might take a few months, but societal change takes much longer.
I post on GFY so that when people ask me what I do,
I can tell them that I work with the mentally retarded.
It's hard to change someone when they think god is telling them to be that way.
so you're telling us Bush will never change?
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Originally posted by BRISK What was wrong with American women before 1920? Women in America didn't have the full right to vote until 1920.
I think it's a bit much to expect Afgan women to cast off their burqas the second the Taliban were removed. Regime change might take a few months, but societal change takes much longer.
Same thing men didn't want women to have any say in things.
Originally posted by KRL
Why don't they stand up for their rights and stop letting men pull this restrictive bullshit lifestyle on them under the guise of religion?
Because they are sheep and religion is their shepherd.
Originally posted by Gynecologist Believe me, if those women took off those sheets off of their heads you would be begging them to put them back on.
That's because they don't allow their women to wear makeup. Its considered too provocative so the women all look like men with a few exceptions.
There aren't many naturally beautiful women, even hear. When I had a photo studio the women would walk in looking so plain since we asked them to let our makeup artist do it for them and they would be transformed into total beauties.
Originally posted by KRL Maybe so, but inherently, we are much like animals and are all born with an inate instinctive understanding and desire to have freedom and liberty.
Most social animals have an alpha male and alpha female, the females are almost always subservient to males and all members of the society are subservient to the alphas be they female and male especially. So it is inherant in nature for females to be subservient to males and all those who are weak to be subsevient to the strongest males in a society. By your argument of how much like animals we are....... Care to rephrase?
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Originally posted by KRL Maybe so, but inherently, we are much like animals and are all born with an inate instinctive understanding and desire to have freedom and liberty.
KRL, I wonder if it's possible for you to separate yourself from your nationality, beliefs and values for one moment, and consider the possibility that other people can see life and everything in it completely differently and still be happy and content.
I know Americans think that we secretly all want to migrate to the USA and become Americans and adopt your values and way of life, but the reality is that most of us really don't.
Seriously, have you done much intensive travel? Not business trips but seeing a place from the gutter up?
When I was in Cairo I remember going to a restaurant and seeing a man and wife eating next to our table. The woman would have to pick up her "head dress" each time she wanted to take a bite.
For the most part you really do not even see women in many middle eastern countres. They are mostly at home. And you see lots of guys walking each other around and holding hands.
Last edited by Gynecologist; 10-11-2004, 01:03 AM.
Originally posted by Gynecologist When I was in Cairo I remember going to a restaurant and seeing a man and wife eating next to our table. The woman would have to pick up her "head dress" each time she wanted to take a bite.
For the most part you really do not even see women in many middle eastern countres. They are mostly at home. And you see lots of guys walking each other around and holding hands.
yeah this is true. The tour group I was wit h our guild was an Egyptian woman and she was smokin hot. There are a lot more modern women in Cairo than in many of the other cities. I would say about half the women we say wore the veils. But when we went down to Aswan, which was beautiful, it was still very old wolrd. To get there we took a 4 day cruise down the nile and stopped at several villiages/towns where there was no running water or electricity and we went everywhere via horse and buggy. About 99% of the women there had the full veils on.
When I was growing up I wasn't allowed to wear "dungarees" (jeans) outside the house unless I was on my grandfather's farm. My school in FL had a very strict dresscode also and pants for women had such restrictions, it wasn't worth it and most of us wore skirts or dresses.
When I moved to ATL to live with my Dad wat 16, I still followed the same "dresscode" for a couple of years. Habits are hard to break
And think about it - you don't have to wear makeup, worry about plucking your eyebrows, if your face breaks out, no one knows, and you can be dog ugly and look the same as the beauty queen in public
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