If U Can Design Read This Thread

try www.bluedesignstudios.com
and www.rlmwebcreations.com/xxx

both do great work and are trustworthy

www.dankmedia.com/portfolio.html has been updated in a long as while though

i feel your pain. as a designer, I never take one penny until the job is completed and work with people i know or their refferals.

thank you 4 understanding contact me plz

I'm not clear if it is a movie gallery/mgp or a movie site you are looking ot have done. If it is a site then check out our site portfolio and price guide. We can work with you about when payment is taken,etc.

If you need any help or have any questions feel free to contact me at [email protected] or on icq at 1302636.

Check us out please,

http://www.byotdesignstudio.com

..

latest movie site: http://www.byotdesignstudio.com/epornclips/


ICQ - 17630227

this guy is obviously "one of those" clients.

so you want us to make you a movie site, then if you don't like it you won't pay for the time we put into it? Sorry. it just doesn't work that way. You pay for a product AND time. Any self respecting businessman would fix the site if you weren't satisfied. I don't mind the 'build now pay later' scheme with people I know and trust. If it's a huge project like a full tour with promo tools I would take half now half later. But for a movie site... all upfront baby. It's a no brainer.

This person you lost $200 on, they should have been willing to rework the site until it was presentable. Within reason of course.

for $200 too.

its a TGP movie site...buddy

$200 may not be a whole lot but it sets you back on a project

u r 1 of "those" designers

please check out

http://www.tanakadesigns.com/new/por...portfolio.html

email [email protected]

I figured as much. Like i said, if it was a big payste tour and ad materials project I'd take half at start then the rest upon completion. but for something small like a TGP. It's kinda hard to lose your money on it. TGP design is not rocket science. Many designers gladly take money after product is delivered. But you've already displayed unwillingness to pay if you aren't satisfied. So there goes your chances of paying after product is delivered. Remember, any self respecting designer will work with you until you are satisfied, of if you could never be satisfied, refund a portion.


You're a high risk client with your statements

Here is a process that seems to be fair, and works:

If a client wants to pay 100% up front for priority service, so be it... just make sure you trust each other. But designers should not expect 100% up front.

50% retainer up front, 50% after the project.

3 Free Reviews & Revisions
Any revision after 3 ... charge for it. (tacked onto the end price)

Do the reviews at these points:
1. When the basic Photoshop work is done. (about 1/2 way through) Review watermarked version.
2. When the project is completed locally (all graphics/animations and html). Review watermarked.

After these 2 reviews. Final payment is due. Once paid, release the full version w/o watermarks to client.

Allow them time to upload and set it up on their server, or set it up for them... give them a little time to test it themselves, and get back to you.

Once the site/project is up and tested by them... do a final review. Once they say it's good... YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY DONE. No further changes should be made w/o charging for them.

Too often, I run into clients that seem to think that a designer's time is free. That they are paying for the "end product", and not their time. Prices are determined by the time it takes to do the work. If a client wants a banner... it sounds simple enough... however if they want 1000 changes to it... It becomes a much larger project.

The key to ALL of this is communication. Designers... ASK FUCKING QUESTIONS!! Don't ASSUME that you know what they want. The more questions you ask in the beginning, and the more info you get about the project... The fewer revisions you will have to do. And clients should also ask as many questions as they can think of to the designer, about their design theories, methods, and general knowledge about design. This will also help you understand how the project is put together, to obtain the end production. Asking a lot of questions will also clue you in to any scammers. If they can't answer alot of your questions to your satisfaction, or it sounds like a bunch of bullshit... You probably have a scammer on your hands and won't be happy with the results, or worse... you might get taken.

Do as much Q&A prior to the project start as you can. Then leave the designer alone to do the work. Let them get back to you with any questions they have along the way.

That's about it. Communication is the key.

Tips for clients: Send DETAILED emails to the designer, so they have it to use as a reference sheet. Be sure to include any sales text you want to be used, concepts, a list of keywords to describe the site (for them to get a mental image of it), timeframes, deadlines, etc... After sending the email... CONFIRM that they received it. Sometimes email doesn't go through for whatever reason. Just make sure they got it. Be reasonable in your expectations. Don't expect a kick ass design in 1 day. Not many designers can do this. Good work takes time. Someone said it in the past on this board... SPEED, QUALITY, PRICE... PICK 2. This is very important that you understand this. It is nearly impossible to do all 3. Any solo designer that says they can give you a great design, with a low price, and a quick turnaround... is full of shit. A design firm can maybe do it, but, you will probably pay a little more.

Tips for designers: If you don't have a clear picture of what you want to do to create the site/project, then you don't have enough information to do it. ASK QUESTIONS! With a detailed project reference email, sit back for a little while and try to visualize the finished site before starting it. Review the details fully, then ask them any questions that you may run into as you try to visualize. Discuss your visualization with them before starting the project... Start a .txt file w/ their details. If you get more info by asking questions to them, append it to this text file, so you can go back to it later.

Anyhow, that's my rambling. Discuss...

Awesome fucking post

good tips

Yeah, you're right.
I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

I agree VooDoo. absolutely perfect post!

we do 50/50 payment with big jobs and of course for anyone that has used us in the past, but always require 100% upfront for special offers and first time clients that we have no knowledge of.

just as clients might get burned on occasion, it goes the other way just as often that the designer gets burned.

So how many designers did you hire and not pay this weekend George? I know of 4 at the moment.

Good post Voodoo, however, there are those pesky clients that ask for revision after revision. I do have a max revision set before I start charging, however, they start complaining saying "I was unable to produce the layout according to their specifications".

Then the project is dropped, and their money is refunded.

A year later, they use my layout without permission.

We can help you.
But we aint cheap.
And EXPECT 1/2 down per project.

Required minimum of $600.00 for any orders.

Pay attention... this guy doesn't pay his bills. He plays victim and then victimizes designers.

He leveraged 4+ designers this weekend with promise to pay upon completion and payed no one. Hes a fucktard.

lol.. i just wanted to make a comment about his post..

the site h.biz sucks.. cant find a fucking portfolio and 600...?

wtf is his attitude for.. looks like the cookie cutter newbie designer to me.

I just wanted to hit the thread

Like a scammer will pay 1/2 down first LOL!

Keep telling youself that.
It will make you rest easier.

its true

http://www.heretic.biz/

c'mon..

This post is not about slamming each other as designers...

Its about fucktard assclown motherfuckers that play games with designers.

Don't do business with George Otero, aka, fucktar...er naughtygeorge aka pyro.

he's a real piece of art.

Sounds like the guy that came on here and did the same thing about half a year ago.

What more do you need than that?

Does it make you mad that its so simple?

Does it upset you that you pulled your hair out for weeks wondering if people will like your design when you made your front?

Does it upset you that if I were to seriously critique any of your work you would just quit trying to design upon realising you are a complete imbecille?

Does it upset you that ya can not see my secrets so you can copy my work?

Does it upset you that I do not have contact URL's so that you can harass my clients?

Need I go on about your insecure life?

Thanks for the Heads up GoodChris

I know lens is gonna scratch this post as soon as he sees it, but, we have started a board for designer talk at http://www.xmasterboard.com ... private talk amongst the designers to avoid this shit.

Lens, please keep the link in the thread, its not competition to your board, its a niche board. Thanks.

dude.. a big mouth wont compensate your lack of skills and talent..

learn to live with it, all cool.

a gut feeling told me, "do not lift a finger until this fucker pays in full" ... Guess my gut feeling was right! He was just too demanding and high risk from his posts.

Uncalled for man, very uncalled for. Sure he was being rude, but come on, he has some major valid points. Regardless, an attitude like yours left a sour taste in my mouth and I am sure it has done the same for others.

Lets not lose the point of this thread..

The guy that started it is a fucktard. He abuses designers. DO NOT TAKE WORK FROM HIM..

Start another thread if you guys wanna bash each other.

coming from a guy that just spammed is 0 posts webmasterboard.

your point?

Yeah right! I love them!

please hit my sig for more info!!!

good to know, this guy contacted me to do the work but since he knew nobody that I knew that could provide a good reference I had to pass. with all the info coming to light, this is why i tend to stick by my "refferal only" work. thanks goodchris. signing up at your board now ;)

My friend Dan is a great designer...you can contact him on AIM: az mafioso . He is very good with site design and flash.

Did you actually even read this thread?

how many times have you been fucked over?

you do ars byots too?

You pay we design and we don't rip people off.

hehe.. can't blame a guy for wanting to do some business.. it's a kind of long thread..

I was so glad to see pyro/naughty George posting here .. I didn't really want to spam the designers forum, but at the same time wanted to let people know about stuff like this when I see it going on.

As it was said by someone else in this thread, both designers and clients get burned often by each other, right now, my interest is in seeing that designers are protected from this type of thing.. not only from being burned by clients, but from being taken advantage of .. period. This is why I started that forum, I saw something bad happening and wanted to do something about it.

It looks like something good has come out of it already

I've always wanted to say this to someone but never have until now..

Pyro.. you are OWNED hon! ;)

Don't you just love design specs like this?

Pyro: Anyone who would take on a project with this specification, on the terms you specify, is someone you clearly deserve.