50 persons hiding their $ from Revenue Canada
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Nydal:
That is 100% correct!ok guys I am sorry to say but its clear that you have 0 experiences.
fact # 1 - good working offshore structure won't cost you more then 2000 USd including bank acc set up.
fact # 2 - your name/passport won't appear anywhere.If your registrant agent is clever and handfull enough then you are just shareholder (means fully annonymous owner) of the offshore comp.
It is amazing the sheer ignorance of "opinions" here - tis clear they have not one clue about what they are talking about! :-)
I remember hauling offshore lawyers to offer advice at a webmaster conference. The stupidity of the questions was - well.. embarassing.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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pay your taxesI still love everybodyComment
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Pleasurepays:
Yea??? :-)15,000-30,000.00 is about right. you can do it much cheaper... but you wont be doing it right. there is a difference.
How many offshore structures do you want?? I'd be pleased to set up as many as you want with as much "complexity" as you like at that cost!! *lol*
And... they would all be "right"!!! :-)XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...hreadid=230890
http://www.carrco.com/international.htm
... talks about the issue of control and the fact that a Canadian resident cannot have control over the foreign corp.
...you have to jump thru hoops of creating foreign trusts and giving up legal control of your assets... tricky stuff!!!
And even then Revenue Canada, if they look at it closely, will probably look thru the " legal " control to see who has control " in fact"Comment
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No Question is a stupid QuestionOriginally posted by Webby
Nydal:
The stupidity of the questions was - well.. embarassing.
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its not correct. its not legal. you cant have money under your direct control, have access to it and spend it without declaring it. as a US citizen, you cant have indirect control over a foreign bank account/money without telling the IRS.Originally posted by Webby
Nydal:
That is 100% correct!
It is amazing the sheer ignorance of "opinions" here - tis clear they have not one clue about what they are talking about! :-)
I remember hauling offshore lawyers to offer advice at a webmaster conference. The stupidity of the questions was - well.. embarassing.
to do it legally costs much more. to do it legally in more secure environments costs much more again.Comment
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Yup.Originally posted by Pleasurepays
i would assume the canadian laws are similar to US laws and you are required to pay taxes earned anywhere, worldwide as a Canadian citizen.
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exactly, you have to spend a ton of money, have teams of lawyers, pay massive fees etc to do it right. its not practical for people dealing with small sums of money. for people dealing with small sums of money, you can just create a company, hide the declaration of trust, hope no one gives up your bank account info and hope the tax authorities put you in prison for 20 years after you told them none of this stuff existed and they proved it did.Originally posted by Monk
http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...hreadid=230890
http://www.carrco.com/international.htm
... talks about the issue of control and the fact that a Canadian resident cannot have control over the foreign corp.
...you have to jump thru hoops of creating foreign trusts and giving up legal control of your assets... tricky stuff!!!
And even then Revenue Canada, if they look at it closely, will probably look thru the " legal " control to see who has control " in fact"Comment
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Pleasurepays:
We are not talking about the US or US citizens - we are talking about Canada.its not correct. its not legal. you cant have money under your direct control, have access to it and spend it without declaring it. as a US citizen, you cant have indirect control over a foreign bank account/money without telling the IRS.
You are totally correct in the it is almost a total waste of time for any US citizen to be involved in "offshore" in the true sense, since they are one of about four countries in the world who are the exception in that they consider their citizens to pay taxes to the IRS irrespective of where they live/work in the world.
All other countries have more freedoms in this respect.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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Pleasurepays:
Sheesh... where does your experience come from??? Have you ever formed an offshore corp/structure in your life?? If so, you have clearly been ripped off.exactly, you have to spend a ton of money, have teams of lawyers, pay massive fees etc to do it right. its not practical for people dealing with small sums of money.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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Canadians have to pay tax on theiur worldwide income as well!!! Only if they cease to be A Canadian resident, can they do otherwise.Originally posted by Webby
they consider their citizens to pay taxes to the IRS irrespective of where they live/work in the world.
All other countries have more freedoms in this respect.Comment
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i have forgotten more about tax law and international tax law than you will probably ever learn. its not about cost. its about a wide range of considerations that you seem to be ignorant of. security, legality, political/financial stability, tax treaties, future changes (i.e. joining EU etc.) of region etc etc etc. costs are directly related to a lot of issues that might land you in jail and "cheaper is never better" no matter how you define it. particularly when you are dealing in large sums of money (6-7digits per month)Originally posted by Webby
Pleasurepays:
Sheesh... where does your experience come from??? Have you ever formed an offshore corp/structure in your life?? If so, you have clearly been ripped off.
[hint - whois]Comment
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....and regardless if somebody spends $1000 or $100,000 to get it done.... if Revenue Canada looks at the transaction and sees that the Canadian resident has control "in fact" of the offshore corp and/or trusts, they will be in a pile of shit. Some offshore bank or trust may have "legal" control of the foreign corp but if Revenue Canada sees memos, emails, etc. from the Canadian resident telling the foregin trust what actions it should be taking... things might get a little sticky.Comment
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Monk:
Understand Monk. This applies to *any* person who remains resident in their "home country" - they have to abide by the tax laws there.Canadians have to pay tax on theiur worldwide income as well!!! Only if they cease to be A Canadian resident, can they do otherwise.
This is too long to deal with here - (tho went into it at length on other threads) - there is a difference in that a legal offshore entity holds it's revenue offshore. It may make payments for "services" to someone in their "home country", but that clearly is taxable under whatever tax laws exist within that home country.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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... and I'll be fucked if I want to give up legal control to some fuck who is sitting with my money in a foreign country 3000 miles away.Comment
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Pleasurepays:
Yup... fully aware of the "considerations"!! :-) That is something which can be unpredictable... especially within the last few years!its not about cost. its about a wide range of considerations that you seem to be ignorant of. security, legality, political/financial stability, tax treaties, future changes (i.e. joining EU etc.) of region etc etc etc.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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what to say - maybe offer Grenada passport for 10k?Originally posted by Pleasurepays
its not correct. its not legal. you cant have money under your direct control, have access to it and spend it without declaring it. as a US citizen, you cant have indirect control over a foreign bank account/money without telling the IRS.
to do it legally costs much more. to do it legally in more secure environments costs much more again.Comment
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right Monk.
people don't often understand the difference between doing it and doing it right and are never aware of the risks involved. of course you can "hide your money from the canadian government" - you can do it for less than $1000.00 and probably 500.00 a year. You can do it by just flying somewhere and opening a bank account.
when you file your taxes and lie, it becomes a felony. when you file your taxes, you make some statements and sign your name to them under penalty of purjury. you can't undo that and the statute of limitations is 11 years (in the US) for them to decide they if they want to fuck up your life or not.
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webby, i understand what you are saying as well... what Monk is saying is though that scheme sounds perfectly fine and well... it still does not mean you can't get in serious trouble for it. there has to be distance between the individual and the "company" and distance between the individual and that person who controls the money. if there is not... again... you can get into serious trouble.Comment
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Monk:
There is no question of *any* other person having "control" if the structure is founded on a "legitimate" basis - I have "never" left any control in any offshore structure to a third party.... and I'll be fucked if I want to give up legal control to some fuck who is sitting with my money in a foreign country 3000 miles away.
But.. on the other hand... I am legally offshore.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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The issue is not whether the individual is taxed on "services" provided to the offshore corp.... clearly this is the case.Originally posted by Webby
there is a difference in that a legal offshore entity holds it's revenue offshore. It may make payments for "services" to someone in their "home country", but that clearly is taxable under whatever tax laws exist within that home country.
The issue is about "CONTROL"... ie who controls the offshore corp. You think Revenue Canada is just going to allow everybody to incorporate and move their income offshore? They look at who "controls" the corp and if that person is a Canadian resident, they are going to want to tax that income in Canada.Comment
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Originally posted by Pleasurepays
i have forgotten more about tax law and international tax law than you will probably ever learn. its not about cost. its about a wide range of considerations that you seem to be ignorant of. security, legality, political/financial stability, tax treaties, future changes (i.e. joining EU etc.) of region etc etc etc. costs are directly related to a lot of issues that might land you in jail and "cheaper is never better" no matter how you define it. particularly when you are dealing in large sums of money (6-7digits per month)
[hint - whois]
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... only if Canada has a double taxation treaty with Grenada and you are allowed to keep dual citizenship otherwise, you have to renouce your Canadian citizenship... or pay taxes to Canada as a Canadian Citizen... or lie and say its not your money, even though it is, say you don't control it... even though you do and then wonder when they are going to bust you for not reporting it.Originally posted by Nydahl
what to say - maybe offer Grenada passport for 10k?Comment
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Pleasurepays:
Gotta totally agree with ya!what Monk is saying is though that scheme sounds perfectly fine and well... it still does not mean you can't get in serious trouble for it. there has to be distance between the individual and the "company" and distance between the individual and that person who controls the money.
In Monk's instance where he continues to reside in, say Canada, it ain't so wonderful :-)
I know many Canadians who have offshores - they are not "hidden" as such - such a trading mechanism, but they declare and pay taxes on all funds they draw into Canada - (tho some are genuinely offshore as well).XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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So....Originally posted by Webby
Monk:
There is no question of *any* other person having "control" if the structure is founded on a "legitimate" basis - I have "never" left any control in any offshore structure to a third party.
But.. on the other hand... I am legally offshore.
1. You are a Canadian resident?
2. You have control of the foreign corp?
You think this is a legitimate way around paying Canadian taxes? You are wrong.
No wonder you can get it done for $1000... they are not jumping through all the hurdles that create the extra layer of distance between you and your corp.... sounds like they just incorporated a company down there and that is it.....Comment
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Webby, does your offshore co. report earnings in the country it's established?Comment
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ok.... are you physically offshore yourself also (as an individual)? If so, that is a totally different ball of wax..... you may no longer be a Canadian resident for tax purposes.Originally posted by Webby
In Monk's instance where he continues to reside in, say Canada, it ain't so wonderful :-)
But we are talking about Canaidan residents in this thread.Comment
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Tax law does not work like that. You can't have money 100% under your control and at your disposal... not even indirectly and then say "its not me, i know nothing about it... if you have questions please go talk to the law offices of XYZ Corp who has a small office that is locked 24hrs a day in the Bahamas"Originally posted by Webby
Pleasurepays:
Gotta totally agree with ya!
In Monk's instance where he continues to reside in, say Canada, it ain't so wonderful :-)
I know many Canadians who have offshores - they are not "hidden" as such - such a trading mechanism, but they declare and pay taxes on all funds they draw into Canada - (tho some are genuinely offshore as well).
Next point... Just because they are not in jail today... does not mean that all of them are not under investigation today and will not be arrested in 3 years at the conclusion of that investigation.
Its not so simple as spending a couple grand and being free from taxes and legal liability forever.Comment
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Well, if he is smart, he incorporated his offshore corp in a tax haven country where taxes do not exist.Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
Webby, does your offshore co. report earnings in the country it's established?Comment
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Deal in cash only.
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the very most of offshore countries (called tax heaven)don't requiare to report earnings if you are not resident to.But some countries doOriginally posted by Soul_Rebel
Webby, does your offshore co. report earnings in the country it's established?Comment
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if he was smart "he" did not incorporate anythingOriginally posted by Monk
Well, if he is smart, he incorporated his offshore corp in a tax haven country where taxes do not exist.
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A single offshore corp is not good enough if you really want to hide your coin. To do it properly you need multiple corps in multiple jurisdictions and this will cost you a lot more then a few grand.Comment
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Monk:
I am not any expert on the detail of Canadian tax rules.You think this is a legitimate way around paying Canadian taxes? You are wrong.
There are choices - the only way to dump Canadian taxes is move offshore and pay no taxes.
Canada has basically the same tax "system" as many Euro and other countries where funds are not taxable until you import them into the country. ie... until you benefit from these receipts.
I have no clue as to the current specifics on Canadian tax rules - if the above still applies, then you have room to play.
As far as offshores for most other countries (excluding the US), these can be used effectively, depending!XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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meant get new passport and burn the old oneOriginally posted by Pleasurepays
... only if Canada has a double taxation treaty with Grenada and you are allowed to keep dual citizenship otherwise, you have to renouce your Canadian citizenship... or pay taxes to Canada as a Canadian Citizen... or lie and say its not your money, even though it is, say you don't control it... even though you do and then wonder when they are going to bust you for not reporting it.
never mind try this link and get some books about running an offshore company - and please don't tell me about what you forgot or ever knew about
http://www.offshorenews.com/Comment
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Soul_Rebel:
Good heavens - no!!!! *lol*Webby, does your offshore co. report earnings in the country it's established?
There are no taxes applicable in the country of formation.
Pleasurepays:
*s* See where you are going! Basically it does not matter if "I" incorporated the company since I am offshore and perfectly entitled to do this - it is legal and nothing needs to be hidden.if he was smart "he" did not incorporate anything
Tho.. yes... "no one" - not even the formation agents have one clue as to the identity of the owner - nor do the judges who act as nominees :-)XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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Burning your passport does not change your citizenship or relieve your of your obligations as a Canadian Citizen. you would have to renounce your citizenship at a Canadian Embassy... which would mean that if you wanted to go home for Christmas, you would then need a visa.Originally posted by Nydahl
meant get new passport and burn the old one
never mind try this link and get some books about running an offshore company - and please don't tell me about what you forgot or ever knew about
http://www.offshorenews.com/Comment
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Sure, that is a choice, but an illegal one.Originally posted by Webby
There are choices - the only way to dump Canadian taxes is move offshore and pay no taxes.
That is not true with Canada... and probably not with most Euro countries either.Canada has basically the same tax "system" as many Euro and other countries where funds are not taxable until you import them into the country. ie... until you benefit from these receipts.
Then why are you here arguing about it like you know what you are talking about?I have no clue as to the current specifics on Canadian tax rules - if the above still applies, then you have room to play..Comment
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this is my point... its not legal. you are the owner. you control it. you control the money... you tell the IRS or whoever "i dont know anything about that" and you fail to let them know what foreign bank accounts you control. when you make a statement to the IRS and sign your name to it... they then have 11 years to decide if they want to put you in prison. A lot of things can change in 11 years. A countries attitude about being an "offshore haven" can change. Their agreements with the IRS can change. anything can change. It happens all the time. The Swiss do not hesitate to turn over records today. Why? Because the US eventually puts enough pressure on them. Of course, Switzerland was the ultimate in private banking 40 years ago. All those bank records are sitting there waiting for change.Originally posted by Webby
Tho.. yes... "no one" - not even the formation agents have one clue as to the identity of the owner - nor do the judges who act as nominees :-)
in the end, you lied and you can't un-lie
but at least you saved a few $
Last edited by Pleasurepays; 02-16-2004, 03:34 PM.Comment
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Monk:
Sure, that is a choice, but an illegal one.
That is not true with Canada... and probably not with most Euro countries either.
Then why are you here arguing about it like you know what you are talking about?
First.... I am not suggest anything other than a "legal" entity. The first rule in the book is observe the laws in the country in which you reside.
Second.... You claim that it is the case in Canada that citizens pay taxes on money they no not receive or spend?? That may now be the case - however it is the first I ever heard of it. As far as most Euro countries are concerned - taxes are not due on funds until they are imported.
Third... I certainly do know what I am talking about as far as offshore structures are concerned. For specific advice on your own tax situation within your home country - consult a accountant.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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additionally there is not a sane bank in the world that will not require you to be there in person to open an account while requiring your passport copy, signature and other ID as they are required to do due dilligence.
The US government after 9/11 changed banking and banking rules all over the world. It was a scary lesson about what can happen at any moment and how little your privacy will be no matter how smart you thought you were by paying nominees and hiding company documents. Change happens. You cannot undo the past... you can only plan for change
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Pleasurepays:
What is not legal?? Yes, I am the owner and I control it and I control the money.this is my point... its not legal. you are the owner. you control it. you control the money...
In my instance this is TOTALLY legal - if you think not, please enlighten me :-)XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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then why would you need nominee directors and be bragging that no one can prove who owns the company? legal and legitimate entities are also transparent.Originally posted by Webby
[B]First.... I am not suggest anything other than a "legal" entity. The first rule in the book is observe the laws in the country in which you reside.
you can't possibly know what you are talking about. you have not said anything that suggests you know what you are talking about. additionally every jurisdictions have a VERY long list of pluses and minuses and i doubt you are even mildly informed.Third... I certainly do know what I am talking about as far as offshore structures are concerned. For specific advice on your own tax situation within your home country - consult a accountant.
"doing it" does not make you a qualified expert to dispense highly technical legal advice. its like selling a kilo of cocaine. you can do it. you can brag about it for years. you can still go to prison 6 years down the road for it when police finally decide to conclude their investigation and bust everyone. there you will be ... on video tape with a smirk on your face because you are really smart.Comment
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Revenue canada is a silent creditor. What this means is for every dollar you don't pay this year, it is added to your debt. The penalties are so high that all your profits will most likely be wiped out over time and if spent the money, then you are in DEBT. You have 3 options:Originally posted by Head
It's not a lot of money but that can change. I just usually claim it. If it comes through my bank they have a paper trail.
1. Pay your debts
2. Don't pay and work so hard to avoid it that you create a new business for yourself - how to hide your money from world governments
3. Structure your business LEGALLY in such a way that taxes are minimized.
For example, you don't seem to know that an Alberta company earning a modest profit pays something like 17% in taxes, a relatively small amount. So there's a start for you!Comment
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Pleaurepays:
EH???? Hoy!! Cummon!! :-)bank in the world that will not require you to be there in person
Due diligence they will observe, but if you think I am gotta travel to the other end of the globe to open some bank accounts - rest assured I won't!!XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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i said there was not a sane bank in the world. i am sure "Bobs Bank of Credit and Oil Changes While You Wait" in the prosperous South Pacific Island nation of Shit Stain just might. But then again... they are also the ones who will be handing over your records to the IRS.Originally posted by Webby
Pleaurepays:
EH???? Hoy!! Cummon!! :-)
Due diligence they will observe, but if you think I am gotta travel to the other end of the globe to open some bank accounts - rest assured I won't!!Comment
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good point!! That is on the first $300,000.... after that the rate goes up to 45-50%, depending on your province.Originally posted by scorpion3600
For example, you don't seem to know that an Alberta company earning a modest profit pays something like 17% in taxes, a relatively small amount. So there's a start for you!Comment
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I use KB's accountant.Sig too big
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/gfy_faqs.html
Want to use a large banner in your sig??? Contact Eric about getting on as an advertiser - eric AT adult.comComment
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Pleasurepays:
I am now getting to the stage that I know these offshore lawyers were at when they attended a webmaster conference - speechless.then why would you need nominee directors and be bragging that no one can prove who owns the company? legal and legitimate entities are also transparent.
I will say one thing..... what you just stated in that quote clearly shows you know "nothing" about offshores and are clearly an "onshore" person with an "onshoire" mentality. That is not mean't as some offence - but tis perfectly normal when living "onshore" - I was exactly the same :-)
In answer to your question - offshore companies in this instance come complete with nominees. That is what an offshore company normally has.
The above remark is definately an "onshore" comment with utter nada qualification.you can't possibly know what you are talking about. you have not said anything that suggests you know what you are talking about. additionally every jurisdictions have a VERY long list of pluses and minuses and i doubt you are even mildly informed.
"doing it" does not make you a qualified expert to dispense highly technical legal advice. its like selling a kilo of cocaine. you can do it. you can brag about it for years. you can still go to prison 6 years down the road for it when police finally decide to conclude their investigation and bust everyone. there you will be ... on video tape with a smirk on your face because you are really smart.
You have vaguely referred to "very long lists", the typical "how it is illegal" and crap like that.
What is still clearly in your mind is this "onshore syndrome" where you consider anything to do with "offshore" to be "illegal".
That is certainly not the case in my instance and our whole operation is based offshore where no taxes are payable. Further, I have no problem whatsoever returning to my home country under some threat that I will be arrested or some other crap - since I am totally legal.
It may take some time... but there are a good number of countries where taxes are not applicable - it is not ususal and it is legal. (I am beginning to think you are in the US somehow *g*)
Man... you don't know what you are talking about!!! :-) Why would you - you are clearly not offshore.XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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Pleasurepays:
Another stupid statement...i said there was not a sane bank in the world. i am sure "Bobs Bank of Credit and Oil Changes While You Wait" in the prosperous South Pacific Island nation of Shit Stain just might. But then again... they are also the ones who will be handing over your records to the IRS.
Clearly you are from the US...XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.Comment
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