To everyone that fights against gun control, thank you.

Only criminals kill

Hey Dumb fuck do you really think if they made a law preventing people from owning guns that would have been prevented?

if it was illegal to own a gun you would be leaving the citizens that obey the law no way to defend themselves from a home invasion robbery ect. . the fucking crooks don?t care if they rob or kill you so why would they give a shit about the law saying they cant have a gun. so shut your liberal pie hole I am sick of idiots like you thinking guns kill people so if we make a law prevent to ownership of them the killing will stop. Well they made a law against killing people and that still fucking happens doesn?t it

You mean the fucking planet wasnt actually rotating until henry ford invented the car? cars are nothing more then a convenience.

well in most countries that have strict gun laws MUCH fewer people are murdered by them. But as Battus says the US already has too many guns it would take decades for gun laws to work

here's go buy a clue.

Truly a tragedy, however, gun control wouldn't have stopped this. My blessing and regards to the family. Situations like this is why I own a gun. =/

This argument is as lame as the people who use it.

I know this is above your comprehension but cars, knives, mouthwash, etc serve a purpose other than killing.

Ahh, but now the arguement is that ALL killing is bad. I don't agree with this. Hunting for example. Self defense another.

go on killing each other, go get guns.. all of you, god bless america...

will do. thanks.

aslong as the ppl have guns the goverment will keep it's cool....gun control look what happen when pol pot, hitler used gun control didn't go to well,huh....shit happens may her little soul rest in peace,but this is no reason for there to be gun control. no matter what crimanls will always have access to guns..


oh yeah see SIG

and those defending themselves or loved ones from criminals.

H. A. L. O.
Handle Any Lethal Oportunity!

Yea, I'm sure your little .45 will keep an army tank from coming through your front door.

Nope, but the day i see an army tank driving around my neighborhood in oposition is the day i start stuffing all the styrofoam and deisel i can find into glass tubes, grab the AK the and the .40 and go to town

if you're afraid that your Government could turn into PolPot or Hitler than u have much bigger problems than gun control.

And you know this for sure? Look at the stats from Australia enacting gun control:

Has anything changed in Australia since the new laws went into effect? Between 1987 and 1996, 100 Australians were killed in mass killings of four or more people. Since the new laws went into effect, there has not been a single massacre. Moreover, in Australia, homicides committed with firearms have been declining - slowly before the Port Arthur Massacre, more sharply since - from 28 percent of all homicides in 1989-90 to 16 percent in 2001.[4] While the 1996 gun laws did not initiate the decline in firearm homicides, they appear to have accelerated it.

Along with the declining use of firearms in homicide, Australia has seen a decline in the use of firearms in armed robberies. From 1993 to 2001, the proportion of robberies committed with a firearm dropped from 16 to 6 percent.[5]

They banned guns in Australia almost completely a couple of years ago, and they crushed and burnt all regsitered firearms. Great hey? Too bad last year had one of (most likely the) highest amount of gun related deaths even. Every day (this is no exaggeration) there is another firearm incident in Sydney. 'If you criminalise the ownership of guns, only criminals will have them'.

Not to mention that most people turned in their shitty guns for the cash they were offering and boxed and burried their good ones on their property. I'm well aware of what happened in australia, however, if owning a gun is ever banned here in the states I will not relinquish my arms. You also do not have compton, long beach, or crenshaw blvd in .au either. And so long as I have to work late hours in shitty parts of LA or SD and get paid in cash leaving at 2am, I beleive I have the right to protect myself. That is actually grounds here for a consealed weapons lisence which I intend on picking up here at some point. Now, I will revert to an old saying that i used to question untill I thaught about it. Guns don't kill people, someone has to aim the gun and pull the trigger. Not to mention a gun is only a method, and if you think eliminated guns wont stop someone from stabbing you in the neck with a sharpened toothbrush at the ATM for your wallet you're dead wrong.

haha, you are a few years behind. Gang wars are ever increasing in Sydney within the Arabic community (as they like to be called), and guns crimes (in Sydney atleast) are more common than ever.

gun control-

1. An isidious plan by some who feel that the gun is to blame for crimes commited by the criminal as a basis to take away firearms from law-abiding citizens.

2. Hitting what you're aiming at.

3. To use both hands while firing.

Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control

We need "smart" bullets... fire at a kid, hit a child molester

if they had those in P++ high velo hollow point i would definately load up on those

just looking at what happen when they used 'gun control' the outcome wasn't too great...

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves were rounded up an exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945 13 million were thrown into concentration camps.

I have a different view, simply because of growing up in Canada. There are crimes here where guns are involved, but not all that many of them. Do I need a gun to defend myself? Certainly not. Do I want handguns to become legal? A firm NO.

But as I said before, life here is different simply because guns were never legal, there isn't as many around as in the countries where they are legal. Do I fear for my life? No, I don't even lock my doors most of the time.

In the U.S. they have always had the right to have handguns and I can see how some feel that by taking them away they are losing something they have some sort of right to have...I have never had that right...I don't feel a lost...even if offered I wouldn't want it. To me...it is numbers...the more you have of them around...the more chance there is of someone using them.

Watch bowling for columbine. Even this left wing nut moore says that is not the problem.

He starts off with the belief that the reason is there are too many guns.

Other countrys also have tons of guns, and they dont kill eathother.

sorry that is not the reason. we as amercicans are just crazy , and stressed out.

take away guns. then we will have gangstas packing sterling silver. lol.

people will use whatever to kill eachother.

I carry a pistol. and i have tons of guns at home.

I have no kids. its up to you parents to not let you kids get ahold of them.

a child should know the power of a gun this way they will respect it and not be curious then go behind your back to plau with one..teach them gun safety so they know it's not a toy.....but no matter what you teach them. there's always going to be child who fucks up..then you have these pro gun control ppl who say 'see we told you'

i'm done with this thread

Gunshot wounds inpact severely on the criminal justice as well as health care systems. Some basic statistics are important in understanding the magnitude and severity of the social and economic burden to the U.S.

In the U.S. for 1998, there were 30,708 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 17,424; Homicide 12,102; Accident 866; Undetermined 316. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, but has since declined steadily.(CDC, 2001) However, firearms injuries remain the second leading cause of injury-related death in the U.S., particularly among youth (Cherry et al, 1998).

The number of non-fatal injuries is considerable--over 200,000 per year in the U.S. Many of these injuries require hospitalization and trauma care. A 1994 study revealed the cost per injury requiring admission to a trauma center was over $14,000. The cumulative lifetime cost in 1985 for gunshot wounds was estimated to be $911 million, with $13.4 billion in lost productivity. (Mock et al, 1994) The cost of the improper use of firearms in Canada was estimated at $6.6 billion per year. (Chapdelaine and Maurice, 1996)

The rates of firearms deaths in the U.S. vary significantly by race and sex. The national average is 11.3 deaths per 100,000 population. The highest rate is 41.6/100,000 for African-American males, more than double the rate of 16.2/100,000 for white males. For females in the U.S., the rate is 3.3/100,000. (CDC, 2000) In contrast, death rates from firearms for western European nations range from 0.1 to 0.5/100,000.

Firearms Death Rate (per 100,000) for Young Males in Selected Countries - 1993


Firearms Deaths by Mode of Death for Children <15 Years of Age
Top 10 Countries - Rate per 100,000
Now lets see the difference between countries where they are legal (US) and the countries where its illegal (basically the rest of the countries shown here)

I live in Australia. Here guns are pretty much banned unless you
are a farmer. From this perspective I can say that the anti-gun
control people do have a very good point.

We've now had tight gun control in Australia for maybe 10 years.
Over this time the hand-gun crime has gone up a great deal.
Criminals now have less trouble getting guns as the black market
has flouristed with the removal of legal licenced guns from the
market. (There was a marketing campaigne on this point by the
NRA recently, I must say they blew our statistics way up. The
problem here isn't quite as large as the NRA suggests, but it does
exist and illegal guns are much easier to get.)

Also we are on the doorstep of asian with an under resourced
and under manned military without adaquate defences for our
north. Now that most of our guns have been destroyed anyone
with a brain can see that we are less able to defend our country.

It's a hard one.

I'd say in America the problem isn't so much the amount of guns
but the violent culture. Most places in the world would rather see
Jannets naked breat then a murder. I'm sure if she was a
gangsta rapper and had a bunch of girls with prop M16s then
there wouldn't be a problem.

I remember someone posting a pic of a Euro girl walking naked
down the street and a lot of people from the US were
screaming "Kids could see!!!" however these same people
wouldn't have a problem with their kids watching Terminator.

Having guns does mean that sooner or later someone gets hurt
by them. However having a culture that says it's more sexy to kill
then to strip is probably a much larger part of the problem.

-Ben

I was raised around firearms, and was taught everything about them. Whent to seal pups, had cops for aunts & uncles, I almost whent into Jr. Olympics for target pistol and rifle. The gun quickly lost it's mysterious draw, and became more of a form of positive recreation at the range. Safe gun handeling was strongly enforced. It's kinda like driving on the freeway. I know i check my car before I get into it everytime, I know how my car feels, and I know when something's not right. I trust my driving and judgement, and have no problem with high speed. It's everyone else on the road that I dont trust. They downright scare me.

The U.S.A. is a fucked up nation and seriously beyond help. If they weren't such a threat to the rest of the world I wouldn't give a flying fuck.

Frankly, I'm just waiting for the day when a terrorist gets a nuke or a dirty bomb into the country and fucks things up.

If you want to change the way society is you have to start at home. Actualy be a good parent to your kids and teach them values and respect. Make sure they know right from wrong and that the consequences for doing wrong things will be severe.

Become involved in everything your kids do. Get involved with thier school. Make sure your kids know drugs are bad, and the consequences for using drugs will be severe. Dont be afraid to punish your child when they knowingly fuck up. And stand your ground on punishments.

Dont let them watch violent tv shows & movies or listen to music that glorifies violence and disrespect. A child has an impressionable mind and these things do make an impression on them, and it can last thier whole life.

If you think your child's friends are a bad influence, put an end to them hanging out together. Acknowlegde your child's accomplishments no matter how small. Pay attention to your child when he/she has something to say. Get off the couch and go do something with your child.

I could go on & on but the point is, if you want to change society, start in your own home. Be a good parent and be involved with your child's activities. A good parent usualy raises a good kid. Good kids usualy turn into good adults, and not criminals.

Criminals go around shooting cars on the interstate and doing other fucked up shit. The gun he used was just a tool. A person with a criminal mind is going to pursue criminal activities whether he has a gun or not.

I spent a year in South Korea and I noticed how different thier society is. They dont have rampant crime, child abductions, problems with theft, rapes, murders, and drug dealers. I believe the thing that really makes a difference is how they are raised. The South Koreans are very respectful towards each other. When a child is born, that is like, the biggest blessing that can ever happen to a family. They raise thier children right and teach them respect for other people.

And I believe that is the biggest problem here. Nobody teaches thier kids respect anymore. Thier kids grow up with respect for nothing, no conscience, and total disregard for anybody's feelings or rights.

Do you think the guy shooting into a car full of children had any respect or a conscience? No. Things like that are taught at a young age. I blame the parents mostly for being complacent and raising a menace to society.

I dont think that making guns illegal is going to change anything. I started shooting at 6 years old and had my own firearms when I was 12. I knew that it was wrong to kill people because I was taught right & wrong. I didnt go around being rude to people or drinking and doing drugs because I knew if my parents found out, that would be my ass on the line. I had shitty, fucked up, alcoholic parents but they did teach me right from wrong at a young age.

And who knows, I may be wrong... but I think that the problem with people shooting into cars on the interstate started at home when they were a child, and not just because they had access to a gun.

Oh for fucks sake stop making sence, listen to battus for a while.

I'm all for gun control..I have to admit down at one of the shows in vegas I went to the gun shop and fired a vast array of guns...and it was fun, there really isn't any need for that kind of stuff in the hands of the general public.

the 2nd Amendment was writtin when muskets were used...maybe they they should limit people to those and be really literal about it.

Yet you trust those same morons with a gun. Nice logic you have.

Why can ferraris go 200+ mph when the speed limit is 65?

Who cares, the average fuckface can't afford one. Whats your point?

gun control? shit.... everyone needs guns.. and training.... I was trained at

http://www.frontsight.com

I have ccw in 23 states.... it's not the gun your fucking morons.... it's the morons who have them and get crazy... thats why we need more armed citizens to take those fucks out... remember if I take any one of my guns and lay them on a table in front of us.. it is not going to kill any of us... guns don't kill people do... therefore we all need more guns to protect ourselvs... theres a town in georga that it is a law if you own a house you have to own a gun... and you know what... lowest crime rate around... so explain that..... I can't stand people that want to do rid of guns.... and I hate our laws... in iraq they celebrate by shooting in the air... but if I get happy and go out and blast the ak off outside here people call the cops... and I'm like what? I was just happy

Sorry to quote myself but most people dont seem to read it. They skip this and just continue to scream that they need to have guns.

Apparently you were dreaming about shooting people during spelling class.

I shoot porn so I don't have to spell for a living

Same point as most everyone else had in this thread, you and battus are fucking idiots.. move to china.

I would say you love guns to compensate for your small penis, but obviously in your case its to compensate for your low IQ.

Listen dude you already couldnt stop mentioning me in every thread yesterday. Today is a new day. Drop it...i still dont know who you are and i dont care. Just stop mentioning my name in every thread, it makes you like a fucking freak. Ok?

If for some reason you cant stop thinking about me then stop hiding behind this nick and tell me who you are. Otherwise, back off.

I love the way people like to separate murders and gun murders.

Facts:

Amsterdam, where our lovely gun hating Battus lives, has a higher murder rate than any other similar sized city in the US except Washington DC.

Speaking of Washington DC, they have some of the most restrictive laws against guns. Ooops! Seems the cities with the highest murder rates in the US have the most restrictive gun laws. Cities with the most relaxed gun laws have the lowest murder rates.

In GA, a town called Kennesaw passed a law several years ago where everyone was required by law to own a gun. ALL CRIMES, including murders, dropped and have not risen.

It makes sense that the fewer guns you have, the fewer gun murders you're going to have. But dead is dead. Compare apples and apples if you're going to look at murder rates.

thunderballs is a pussy.

Dig it!

Chicago ended 2003 with 599 homicides, down from 648 a year earlier and its the first time since 1967 that the total dipped below 600.

Funny that New York, with about three times the population, ended the year with 596 homicides. Los Angeles, which had the most murders in 2002 at 658, wound up 2003 with an estimated total just under 500.

Illinois is one of those few states that you can't carry concealed, you have to buy a firearms owner identication card, submit to a backround check and be photographed by the State Police, can't legally touch any gun that you want to buy unless you have the FOID card, there are restrictions on what you can and can't buy, and to add insult to injury, 20 years ago Chicago banned handgun registration.

Ask me if I feel safe living in Illinois.

A 54-year-old father and resident of suburban Wilmette shared the following letter in two local Chicago newspapers, responding to misdemeanor charges filed after he shot a burglar in his home. The charges stem from a village ban on handguns and Hale DeMar's lack of a proper firearm owner's identification card.

While the charges are not likely to bring DeMar any jail time, his letter responds to criticism of his actions on the night of Dec. 29, when he fired upon an intruder who had, apparently, stole keys to his house in a break-in the night before. In his letter, DeMar is critical of police response to the initial break-in, and of the criminal justice system that allowed the suspected repeat offender the opportunity to terrorize his family.

The following is the text of the letter as published in the both the Sun-Times and Tribune

-=-

Village Trustees: Stick to Parade Schedules & Planting our Parks

Many of us have experienced a sense of violation upon returning to our homes, only to find that someone else has been there. Someone else has trespassed in our bedrooms, looting and stealing that which is readily replaced. Many of us, still haunted by that violation, will never again have a sense of security in our own homes. Few, however, have awakened to realize that they had been violated as they slept in their beds, doors locked, as family dogs patrolled their homes. For me, the seconds until I found my children still safely tucked in their beds were horrifying. The thought that a young child may have been hurt or abducted was incomprehensible.

The police were called and in routine fashion they came, took the report and with little concern left, promising to increase surveillance. Little comfort, since the invader now had keys to our home and our automobiles. The police informed me that this was not an uncommon event in east Wilmette and offered their condolences.

What is one to do when a criminal proceeds, undeterred by a 90-pound German shepherd, an alarm system and a property ... lit up like an outdoor stadium? And now, he had my house keys and an inventory of things he'd like to call his own. Would the police patrol my dead-end street as effectively the second time as they had the first? Would my small children be unharmed the next time? Would the career criminal be satisfied with another automobile, another television or would he feel the need, once again, to climb the staircase up to the bedrooms, perhaps for a watch or a ring or a wallet, again risking little?

Would my children wake to find a masked figure, clad in black, in their bedroom doorway, a vision that might haunt them for years? Would the police come again and fill out yet another report, and at what point should I feel comfortable that the 'bad guy' got everything he wanted and wouldn't return again, a third time?

I went to the safe where my licensed and registered gun was kept, loaded it for the very first time and tucked it under the mattress of my bed. I assured my frightened children ''that daddy would deal with the bad guy ... if he ever returned.'' Little did I imagine that this brazen animal was waiting in the backyard bushes as I tucked my children into bed.

Fifteen minutes after bedtime, the alarm went off. Three minutes after the alarm was triggered, the alarm company alerted the police to the situation and 10 minutes later the first police car pulled up to my home, but only after another call was made to 911, by a trembling, half-naked father. I suppose some would have grabbed their children and cowered in their bedroom for 13 minutes, praying that the police would get there in time to stop the criminal from climbing the stairs and confronting the family in their bedroom, dreading the sound of a bedroom door being kicked in. That's not the fear I wanted my children to experience, nor is it the cowardly act that I want my children to remember me by.

Until you are shocked by a piercing alarm in the middle of the night and met in your kitchen by a masked invader as your children shudder in their beds, until you confront that very real nightmare, please don't suggest that some village trustee knows better and he/she can effectively task the police to protect your family from the miscreants that this society has produced.

This career criminal had been arrested thirty times. He was wanted in Georgia and for parole violations in Minnesota. How many family homes had he violated, how many innocent lives were affected, how many police reports went into some back office file cabinet, only to become some abstract statistic? How is it that rabid animals like this are free to roam the streets, violating our homes and threatening the safety of our children?

If my actions have spared only one family from the distress and trauma that this habitual criminal has caused hundreds of others, then I have served my civic duty and taken one evil creature off of our streets, something that our impotent criminal justice system had failed to do, despite some thirty odd arrests, plea bargains and suspended sentences.

Hale DeMar,
Wilmette

that's bullshit

we have a genius in the house! read my post. i am saying that not unlike driving a car, without proper judgement and education each is equally fatal. and if you disaggree with that, you are far worse off then i could imagine.