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Right, because a robber wants to end up in a shootout instead of just preying on someone without the defense of a gun.Originally posted by Battuss
Exactly! Good point! This is why the robber will enter the house with a gun. This is why the person who didnt have a gun before now will buy a gun because he knows the robber will have a gun...etc.
You are putting the cart before the horse.
By your logic, we need to make robbery legal, because if a person uses ANY means to defend himself, the robber will always look to one up him as opposed to finding a weaker victim.
So if I am crippled, a robber will rob me using his hands.
If I am a regular unarmed person, he will use a knife.
If I am armed with a knife, he will use a bat.
If I am armed with a bat, he will use a tazer.
If I am armed with a tazer, he will use a gun.
If I am armed with a gun, he will use a gun too.
So what's the point of self-defense? Let's just surrender to the criminals!Comment
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LOL
I give upConverting like a mofoComment
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hey battus... ever stop to wonder why nobody is on your side?
could it be that you are a blabbering fool?Crypto HODLr
Crypto mining
Angel investorComment
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Originally posted by Battuss
Exactly! Good point! This is why the robber will enter the house with a gun. This is why the person who didnt have a gun before now will buy a gun because he knows the robber will have a gun...etc.
Your so fucking wrong man!
Robbers will and were always entering houses without guns and raping and harming women. Guns allow the weaker to protect themselves over the stronger.Comment
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Good idea -- just go ahead and agree with me now -- it will save a lot of time.Originally posted by mule
LOL
I give upComment
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I'm not agreeing with you, I just decided to rather go talk to a wall.Originally posted by Buff
Good idea -- just go ahead and agree with me now -- it will save a lot of time.Converting like a mofoComment
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Where did you get your stats? Hmm? If they came from governmental agencies, I'm very disinclined to worry myself over them. If they came from the NRA, I'm VERY disinclined to worry over them. I don't really adhere to either of those.Originally posted by Battuss
Dude, didnt you see the stats i posted on the other page. Look at the difference between a country where its legal and where its no legal. Dont fool yourself. Give it a 1 min look and you'll see that you are wrong.
Ofcourse you are so used to guns because everyone and his brother has one and if they would ban guns tomorrow in the states the country would still have tons of illegal guns.
But look at a country where guns were never legal in the first place, those stats dont like dude. You can think all you want be the stats show something very different.
This just comes around to being a circle of "I believe this way because I refuse to believe your way." That's fine. If you don't feel safe around guns, then that's your perogative.
But don't you DARE critisize those of us who legally own, safely use, and accept responsibility for our guns. Those of us who are responsible gun owners who don't want to be scared to sleep at night because of criminals who have guns, who don't mind being ready and able to stand up to intruders, and can fight for what we believe in don't deserve the bad press, (and that's what it really is, those stats, those "facts", those news articles that blatantly demean gun owners). You think we're stupid, whoopdeshit.
You can scorn or judge us all you want. Just know that we also get to scorn and judge, and more than derision, it's pity that we feel for the closed-mindedness that many anti-gun people exude.
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People have the right to defend their homes and themselfs in every way they want. Very true.Originally posted by Buff
Right, because a robber wants to end up in a shootout instead of just preying on someone without the defense of a gun.
You are putting the cart before the horse.
By your logic, we need to make robbery legal, because if a person uses ANY means to defend himself, the robber will always look to one up him as opposed to finding a weaker victim.
So if I am crippled, a robber will rob me using his hands.
If I am a regular unarmed person, he will use a knife.
If I am armed with a knife, he will use a bat.
If I am armed with a bat, he will use a tazer.
If I am armed with a tazer, he will use a gun.
If I am armed with a gun, he will use a gun too.
So what's the point of self-defense? Let's just surrender to the criminals!
Im jut saying that for instance (cant find stats on this)
In the US where guns are legal, lets say out of 10.000 robberies there prolly (dont know, giving examples) there will be 100 with a gun inflicted dead. On both sides, robber and victim.
While in a country where guns are illegal and the chances of a robber and the owner of the house having a gun are VERY rare out of 10.000 robberies there will be mabe 10 deadly endings.
Know what i mean?
I really agree with you, you have to feel safe in your house and be able to defend yourself how you want but once again guns will result in more deads on both sides!Comment
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Ok, im really gonna work for a bit, i'll check back later...im fucking tired of typing right now.Comment
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what a idiot
he must be going through hell right now though
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I have a pistol on my computer desk at all times. I have a pistol...rifle...or shotgun in every room in the house. If I answer the door late at night it is almost always with a pistol in my hand.
A few months ago (I posted about the incident at the time) a guy that was apparently strung out on drugs barged into my house when I answered the door late at night (a night that I negligently answered the door without my pistol in my hand) and I had to deal with him physically...which put me in harms way. Fortunately I was capable of handling him...but it would have required much less exertion to pull a trigger.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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Originally posted by Battuss
Ok, im really gonna work for a bit, i'll check back later...im fucking tired of typing right now.
OWNED,
lolComment
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My question for this would be..Originally posted by Battuss
Im jut saying that for instance (cant find stats on this)
In the US where guns are legal, lets say out of 10.000 robberies there prolly (dont know, giving examples) there will be 100 with a gun inflicted dead. On both sides, robber and victim.
While in a country where guns are illegal and the chances of a robber and the owner of the house having a gun are VERY rare out of 10.000 robberies there will be mabe 10 deadly endings.
Out of those 100 dead in the US, how many are robbers? Because we don't care about dead robbers.
Out of those 10 dead where guns are illegal, how many are the people being robbed?
Those are the numbers you should compare.Comment
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its funny.. b/c these incedents are so rare.. that it makes national news.. if it was an every day thing like an "automobile death".. it would not make the news...
buff makes a good point.. w/o guns we would still be under the rule of Britain...
cocaine is illegal.. does it stop the rampid use among americans??? don't be such a fool.. making something illegal... is like putting a band aid on cancer...
oh and about the actual article.. the dad is the one to blame.. not the gun.. any gun saftey course could have prevented that.. but wait.. I think that is already a law.. you need gun safety courses before getting a hunting license... geez.. why the fuck did this happen... the "law" should have prevented it...Processing Partners http://www.processingpartners.comComment
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typical dutch woman.Originally posted by Battuss
As long as your country let everybody just buy guns like its nothing this shit will happen.
the gun had nothing to do witrh it. The brains of the father were at fault. nothing morew.I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.Comment
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I completely agree with u 100 percentOriginally posted by Battuss
I dont feel sorry for anyone who let his son come within 1 mile of gun.
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I don't know anything about hunting but I would wager that most hunters in here would agree the dad was very irresponsible shooting at something he wasn't sure was an animal.Last edited by Drake; 01-19-2004, 02:33 PM.Comment
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Wanna stop crackheads with guns? Kill the crackheads or get rid of crack. This silly argument could go on forever and ever and ever but we aren't getting rid of our guns. PERIODOriginally posted by Elli
Um, I would really rather face a mugger with a knife than a mugger with a gun. At least if he has a knife, I can get out of range pretty darned easily.With a gun, you're never sure if you're out of range. Same with robbing a bank with a knife. Same with B&E'ing a house with a knife. A good dog outweighs a knife any day. So yes, I would rather the petty criminals have knives than guns. Criminals who make more money will always have money to spend on black market guns, but at least the crackheads will be restricted to knives and crap like that.
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I am mildly interested in this 300% rise in violent crimes. Do you have a link?Originally posted by Carrie
*sighs*
If they outlaw the guns, the criminals will simply buy them on the black market.
Know what happens then? Criminals walk into a house confident that the victims in that house can't defend themselves. At the most, they'll have to fend off a parent with a baseball bat or a knife. No contest as long as they see that parent coming. They'll just shoot the parent.
Other countries have outlawed guns. Did it stop the killing? No. It simply raised the killing done by other means - like knives.
It's also raised the general crime rate since the criminals know the people don't have guns.
Read up on Victoria and its 300% rise in violent crimes since guns were taken away from the people.
Everything I have read on guns in the home is negative, not positive. I personally do not see how having a gun can save your life if someone breaks into your home with a gun and intent to kill you.
Life isnt like the movies, most homeowners have the gun locked up in a case, with a triggrerlock and the bullets stored in another (probably locked) case. By the time you did that all out and load your gun, the bad guys have your wife and kids tied up in the bathroom and you lose.
The stats I have read, show that homeowners with guns in the home tend to have those guns used against them.
Most people who break into a house are after money and goods - they arent out to take lives. If you dont have a gun, they break in, take your shit and leave, you file a police report, collect insurance and buy bigger locks. Life goes on.
If you have a gun, pull it out, get in a struggle and get shot, your family loses you and you die. I dunno....Comment
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If the gun is securely stored and has a trigger lock so your kids cant shoot each other, how can you use the weapon to protect your family from criminals who break into your house in the middle of the night while you are sleeping? If the gun was loaded and under your pillow, I can understand how it could be readily available, but then you have to worry about your kids shooting themselves, dont you?Originally posted by Tala
What Carrie said is correct. In the cities and towns throughout the US where it is required for each family to own a gun of some sort, the crime rate has dropped significantly. I don't know about you, but if I were a criminal, I sure as hell am going to avoid a town where I know everyone is armed. You break into someone's home there and chances are, you're going to get shot.
I wish that people had to pass a stricter drivers test and had to do them regularily to retain the privilege of driving.Originally posted by Tala
In many states of the United States, cars kill more people annually than guns. Sorry, that's a fact, and whether or not you think it's stupid bullshit is up to you. Personally, I don't give a fuck.
I will watch this happen on TV. Because we all know the revolution will be televised! hehe.Originally posted by Tala
We were granted the right to keep and bear arms because we didn't appreciate being repressed. We also have the right to a well-organized militia and we have the right to overthrow the government in favor of something better. (No, we haven't done that yet. I have to admit, I'm kinda dreading it and kinda looking forward to it. Strange feeling, really.)
Yes. Organized and effective military against a rabble with some weapons? Nazi's were able to overpower several established armed forces. The USA military (note, not US citizens with guns, but trained professionals) would not have been able to pull a victory off if the Nazi's were not worn down and stretched thin by the efforts of the European armies.Originally posted by Tala
Thought to turn over for a bit: Had weapons been in the homes of the people of Nazi-occupied Europe, would the Nazis really have been able to take over?
Probably not.Originally posted by Tala
Had weapons not been available to the people of the United States, would we still be a British territory?
Thanks for being civil, I am genuinely interested in real responses and info.Comment
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Yup.Originally posted by Mike33
I don't know anything about hunting but I would wager that most hunters in here would agree the dad was very irresponsible shooting at something he wasn't sure was an animal.
Aren't most hunting accidents the cause of irresponsible hunters? People shooting at sounds and in bad visibility?Comment
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Originally posted by L0stMind
I am mildly interested in this 300% rise in violent crimes. Do you have a link?
Everything I have read on guns in the home is negative, not positive. I personally do not see how having a gun can save your life if someone breaks into your home with a gun and intent to kill you.
Life isnt like the movies, most homeowners have the gun locked up in a case, with a triggrerlock and the bullets stored in another (probably locked) case. By the time you did that all out and load your gun, the bad guys have your wife and kids tied up in the bathroom and you lose.
The stats I have read, show that homeowners with guns in the home tend to have those guns used against them.
Most people who break into a house are after money and goods - they arent out to take lives. If you dont have a gun, they break in, take your shit and leave, you file a police report, collect insurance and buy bigger locks. Life goes on.
If you have a gun, pull it out, get in a struggle and get shot, your family loses you and you die. I dunno....
the right to bear arms is in our constitution.. since you are canadian.. you don't understand it.. they are not going to take away our guns... at least not in our lifetime.. so get over it..Processing Partners http://www.processingpartners.comComment
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That is because all of the people who own guns and use them responsibly are not newsworthy.Originally posted by L0stMind
Everything I have read on guns in the home is negative, not positive.
My gun is none of the above, but is also not accessable to my child.Originally posted by L0stMind
most homeowners have the gun locked up in a case, with a triggrerlock and the bullets stored in another (probably locked) case. By the time you did that all out and load your gun, the bad guys have your wife and kids tied up in the bathroom and you lose.
I would rather shoot the thief. If they want money and goods, they can work for their own, and not steal mine. If none of them ever got shot, then there would probably be thousands of cowards willing to take the risk.Originally posted by L0stMind
Most people who break into a house are after money and goods - they arent out to take lives. If you dont have a gun, they break in, take your shit and leave, you file a police report, collect insurance and buy bigger locks. Life goes on.
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I understand it is in your constitution. Thats cool. (not that something drawn up a hella long time ago could be wrong tho, right? heh)Originally posted by gregtx
the right to bear arms is in our constitution.. since you are canadian.. you don't understand it.. they are not going to take away our guns... at least not in our lifetime.. so get over it..
But I didnt say take away your guns. Nor did I say it was wrong to own guns.
I am curious IF owning a gun in your house (because I can own a handgun in canada and actually, there are two in my house right now - a 45 and a 9 mm) protects your family. You see, getting to the guns, unlocking the case, removing the trigger lock and loading the gun would take several minutes, which seems to me to be enough time for a criminal to tie up my family and shoot me.
So prove me wrong. Or get over it
Now, go kiss your gun
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it's NRA propaganda. ie total and 100% bullshit. Carrie is being blindly led without looking for other sources of information. Like we all do at times when we find stats that back up the "side" we agree on.Originally posted by L0stMind
I am mildly interested in this 300% rise in violent crimes. Do you have a link?
Last edited by bhutocracy; 01-19-2004, 03:18 PM.Comment
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All I gotta say is that's i'm very glad that guns are illegal here.Comment
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Jennym.
Your guns are not stored with a trigger lock or any other safety device? How is it stored?
Just curious, not bashing - unless you keep it under your pillow, then I think you are insane
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Originally posted by L0stMind
I understand it is in your constitution. Thats cool. (not that something drawn up a hella long time ago could be wrong tho, right? heh)
But I didnt say take away your guns. Nor did I say it was wrong to own guns.
I am curious IF owning a gun in your house (because I can own a handgun in canada and actually, there are two in my house right now - a 45 and a 9 mm) protects your family. You see, getting to the guns, unlocking the case, removing the trigger lock and loading the gun would take several minutes, which seems to me to be enough time for a criminal to tie up my family and shoot me.
So prove me wrong. Or get over it
Now, go kiss your gun
what are you talking about??? I dont' have a gun to protect my house.. I have a gun to have a gun.. for hunting and for sport shooting... if I had to use it to protect my family great.. but that is the least of my worries... I believe that in canada..you ahve to call the RCMP just to take your hand gun to the range... lameProcessing Partners http://www.processingpartners.comComment
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oh and one other thing.. I actually had a buddy in college who shot a dude at close range with a 12 gauge shotgun (not a handgun)... fucked him up pretty bad.. cops told him.. too bad the other two got away... btw.. the three guys were robbing his apartment...Processing Partners http://www.processingpartners.comComment
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Originally posted by jennym
So, you say people cannot live without cars? It happened for many 100's of years but, whatever.
How about if the law is changed so that all cars are made will roll bars, no radios (which distract people), and no car can go over 40 mph. Would that be ok with you since it would save a few lives?
JennyM your posts are fucking amusing. Please stop making useless points and trying to re-live your high school debate team days. Thanks!
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Originally posted by jennym
I would rather shoot the thief. If they want money and goods, they can work for their own, and not steal mine. If none of them ever got shot, then there would probably be thousands of cowards willing to take the risk.
Yes Jenny, take someones life for wanting to jack your stereo.
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So you didnt read my posts thenOriginally posted by gregtx
what are you talking about??? I dont' have a gun to protect my house.. I have a gun to have a gun.. for hunting and for sport shooting... if I had to use it to protect my family great.. but that is the least of my worries... I believe that in canada..you ahve to call the RCMP just to take your hand gun to the range... lame
I never disputed your right to own a gun. Someone made a comment that owning a gun will protect their property. I dont see how, as when a gun is properly stored it takes some time to get it ready for use.
And no, you dont call the rcmp to take the gun to the range, but kudo's for realising we have rcmp up here ;)
BTW - guns are lame. Quite boring and require very little skill, they are called the great equalizer for a reason
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sounds like you put yourself in the shoes of the criminal instead of the criminals victim.Originally posted by Maximillion
Yes Jenny, take someones life for wanting to jack your stereo.
I wonder why.
I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.Comment
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fucked him up pretty bad? no shit huh? Sounds like an understatement hehe.Originally posted by gregtx
oh and one other thing.. I actually had a buddy in college who shot a dude at close range with a 12 gauge shotgun (not a handgun)... fucked him up pretty bad.. cops told him.. too bad the other two got away... btw.. the three guys were robbing his apartment...Comment
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Why the fuck people gotta steal? pisses me off. Does no one have any self respect anymore? lazy bitches.Originally posted by 12clicks
sounds like you put yourself in the shoes of the criminal instead of the criminals victim.
I wonder why.
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That question probably shouldn't be applied to me since I don't have children in the house. My guns are kept ready at the bedside and one on my computer desk within reach.If the gun is securely stored and has a trigger lock so your kids cant shoot each other, how can you use the weapon to protect your family from criminals who break into your house in the middle of the night while you are sleeping? If the gun was loaded and under your pillow, I can understand how it could be readily available, but then you have to worry about your kids shooting themselves, dont you?
My daddy had an interesting way of teaching us about gun safety. He let us shoot the 12 guage when we were 6. A bruised shoulder and sore arm made a kid seriously think about EVER touching his guns, and none of us ever did. Hell, I was 18 and in boot camp before I ever touched another one, and went through firearm training classes.
Yes.I wish that people had to pass a stricter drivers test and had to do them regularily to retain the privilege of driving.
Never underestimate the power of armed people in large groups, or those who would do whatever necessary to save their homes or families.Organized and effective military against a rabble with some weapons? Nazi's were able to overpower several established armed forces. The USA military (note, not US citizens with guns, but trained professionals) would not have been able to pull a victory off if the Nazi's were not worn down and stretched thin by the efforts of the European armies.
I don't plan on watching it.....I will watch this happen on TV. Because we all know the revolution will be televised! hehe.
You're welcome, and thank you.Thanks for being civil, I am genuinely interested in real responses and info.
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Originally posted by L0stMind
So you didnt read my posts then
I never disputed your right to own a gun. Someone made a comment that owning a gun will protect their property. I dont see how, as when a gun is properly stored it takes some time to get it ready for use.
And no, you dont call the rcmp to take the gun to the range, but kudo's for realising we have rcmp up here ;)
BTW - guns are lame. Quite boring and require very little skill, they are called the great equalizer for a reason
we have CFL's in Texas... (concealed firearm license) which means I can carry a gun loaded and hidden... come mug me with your knife ;-))
well then the canadians that i've spoken too who are trying to get handguns.. were misinformed...
handguns require quite a bit of skill to use.. I guarantee.. most people could not get a lethal shot off on a target over 15 ft.. espeicially if that target is moving..Processing Partners http://www.processingpartners.comComment
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Well i have to say, that I have NEVER known anyone that was shot by a gun in my lifetime (excluding WW1 and WW2).
I go culling every month or so. Kangaroos are a big problem on alot of our grain crops here in australia, so we need to cull them to stop damage.
I bet everyone in america has either seen someone shot, knows someone whos been shot or has been shot themselves.
Guns are a problem in the states, there is no way you can say they arent. I have 4 rifels here in my house, a 303, 22250, a lever action .44 rifle (which is my favourite) and an old ww2 303.
We arent allowed handguns in australia, the cops and shooting clubs are the only ones that have them, and i thank god for that.
NathComment
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Yeah, texas scares me. I dont think I will go down there - somebody might blame me for mad cow disease and take me out with their concealed 45
I have a 3 month old child (tenants baby girl) in the house. Guns are still locked up - they have to be up here.
You do need a permit to bring the handguns to the range. You dont have to inform the rcmp every time you plan to visit the range tho.
As for the Nazi invasion vs armed citizen/basic militia.... I agree, that people with homes and families to defend will fight harder then an invading force... but the nazi's were very well trained, had exceptional tactics and superior weaponry. Any militia would not have stood a chance. Hell, the professionals didnt stand a chance.
Interesting topic nonetheless.Comment
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Why is my thought amusing. Battuss argued that cars can't be banned because they are a necessity. Fast cars are not a necessity, and allowing cars to only go 40-50 mph would serve their purpose and reduce accidental death.Originally posted by Maximillion
JennyM your posts are fucking amusing. Please stop making useless points and trying to re-live your high school debate team days. Thanks!
If someone comes in my house uninvited, how am I to know what their intentions are. I will shoot first, and hope they don't live to answer questions later. Sorry if that sounds harsh to you, but I love my life and my daughters life, and would not hesitate to protect them!Yes Jenny, take someones life for wanting to jack your stereo.
During the night, it is usually stored in the headboard of my bed. Any other time, it is in the top of my closet. In my reach, but not my child's.Your guns are not stored with a trigger lock or any other safety device? How is it stored?Comment
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Not me!Originally posted by Big Nath
I bet everyone in america has either seen someone shot, knows someone whos been shot or has been shot themselves.
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Ok your the execption.Originally posted by jennym
Not me!
But i bet youve seen shooting related deaths on tv. We dont see them all that often over here, or if we do its generally some schmo shooting the back of his head off !!Comment
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Hmm.Originally posted by jennym
During the night, it is usually stored in the headboard of my bed. Any other time, it is in the top of my closet. In my reach, but not my child's.Comment
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Go ahead...spit it out. I won't attack you unless you start calling me an idiot. I welcome all thoughts on this subject.Originally posted by L0stMind
Hmm.
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Is the room locked when you aren't in it by chance? You'd be amazed at the lengths kids will go to in order to get something out of reach.During the night, it is usually stored in the headboard of my bed. Any other time, it is in the top of my closet. In my reach, but not my child's.
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blah blah blah theories and emotional opinions
This is the total homicide rate per country per 1000 people.
It includes all murders; guns, knives, pointy sticks, whatever.
You are 5 times more likely to be murdered in the USA than in the UK.
to put it another way:
1 in 1000 european citizens will be murdered.
1 in 200 american citizens will be murdered.
If you argue it is not due to all the guns here,
then americans must just be 5 times as murderous.
right?
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Originally posted by CamChicks
If you argue it is not due to all the guns here,
then americans must just be 5 times as murderous.
right?
yes
and according to the chart you can see that Canadians are more murderous than the Nederlanders. (both places have no guns)Last edited by BV; 01-19-2004, 05:03 PM.Comment
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No the room is not locked. My child does not have the opportunity to reach my gun. First, she would have to go in my room without asking, which my child does not do. Second, I am not sure where she would get something to stand on that would make her tall enough to reach the gun. Third, my child is not out of eyes or ears range long enough to accomplish this anyway. As she gets older, I am sure some of this will change, and I will change with it.Originally posted by Tala
Is the room locked when you aren't in it by chance? You'd be amazed at the lengths kids will go to in order to get something out of reach.
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