100 licenses
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Sig heil
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There IS no actual precident. David Lace had judgement against him because he didn't show up in court, but nothing in court has upheld their patents in any way under scrutiny. I think we all know what will happen when that's the case.. People like me who've been on the net for 10+ years and know all the instances of prior art that exist.Originally posted by Danny_C
Three years in law school and this guy thinks a settlement establishes precedent?Comment
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Very true.Originally posted by KRL
I think many of these companies haven't been involved with heavy duty lawsuits and are just figuring lets not chance it.
Most lawsuits are settled out of court. In fact, I don't recall the latest figure, but its over 90%. Most times you can settle for pennies on the dollars. Even if you do go to court you can appeal and stretch the damn thing out for years using various legal maneuvers and tactics. Even if after all that they win then they have to collect which is another process.
I had one idiot that sued me along with a major wall st. firm over a deal that the wall st. firm fucked up and everyone involved in any way got brought into it. The guy wanted $90,000 in his demands from our end of the deal. Never even had to go to court and one of my corporate attornys settled it for only $5K. The wall st. firm he was trying to play games with for millions ended up settling for a mere $50K. End of story.
If we banded together we could simply outspend Acacia, isn't one of their main sales points "It's cheaper to settle" We could make it cheaper for them to go away. But not while people sign up and others continue to support licensees.Comment
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Do more research and you'll be surprised.. It's a money grab. I NEVER heard of a company with LEGITIMATE claim blanket-mailing people hoping that the hit and miss would scare people into signing because they didn't know better. Check into some of the tactics they have been using and do some more research. You will be fucking STUNNED at the level of desperation they are displaying in the big grab.Originally posted by jimthefiend
what are you talking about?
you dont think acacia is prepared to show up in court to pursue this?
*sigh*
thats irrelevant, what IS relevant is that no one is fighting it in court. they are SIGNING. that means several things:
#1 it encourages others to do so
#2 it lends the whole cluster fuck credibilty it might not have otherwise.
#3 it will give acacia PLENTY of fucking ammo when and if it actually DOES get litigated
#4 it puts money in acacias pocket, and guess how theyll USE IT?
#5 and perhaps most importantly, as ive mentioned, its giving the impression that the claims have merit in the first place.Comment
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The sad thing is MANY companies in adult make more money in one quarter than Acacia will in the next 10 years.Originally posted by charly
Very true.
If we banded together we could simply outspend Acacia, isn't one of their main sales points "It's cheaper to settle" We could make it cheaper for them to go away. But not while people sign up and others continue to support licensees.Comment
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fuckComment
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Originally posted by charly
And you have a licensees banner up on your posts?
Very good points, webmasters are good a rhetoric, but very poor on giving $$$ to a good cause. So many said they could not afford it, but how many of those were in Vegas?
yea I will agree with you there I don't make shit in this biz yet... still a noob.. but I've donated $200 more than half the fuckers that bitch about acacia every time a thread comes up..
put your money where your mouths are
http://www.impai.org/fund.htmlIn November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.Comment
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Originally posted by Danny_C
Three years in law school and this guy thinks a settlement establishes precedent?
yes, in fact i do.
Rule 23 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure requires judicial approval of class action settlements. Under Amchem Products v. Windsor, 521 U.S. 591 (1997), class action settlements must meet all of Rule 23?s requirements except manageability. Thus judicial approval of a settlement class can place defendants at risk of later having the settlement class cited as ?precedent? for certifying litigation classes in other actions
next?
settlement CAN be used as a precedent to rule on most civil litigationLast edited by jimthefiend; 01-12-2004, 07:48 AM.Comment
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Originally posted by LadyMischief
Do more research and you'll be surprised.. It's a money grab. I NEVER heard of a company with LEGITIMATE claim blanket-mailing people hoping that the hit and miss would scare people into signing because they didn't know better. Check into some of the tactics they have been using and do some more research. You will be fucking STUNNED at the level of desperation they are displaying in the big grab.
im not saying their tactics arent shameful lady m
what i AM saying is that for Hustler to fucking sign there MUST be some perceived merit to the claim.
and i bet flint has REAL good lawyers, and they must have thought so too.Comment
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Yes Jim, it <i>can</i> be <i>cited as</i> precedent..... in certain cases it is even upheld as precedent. But in a patent case where the validity of the patent is in question?..... I think not.
The issue is still up in the air. Until the validity is 100% proved or disproved, no company should be settling with these extortionists. None. Zero. Zip. They should be sending a letter back to acacia saying "pending the outcome of the patent challenge by HomegrownVideo et al, we are reserving our decision on this matter" and let it ride. Acacia can't afford to actively sue everyone one-on-one, I can't think to too many companies that could.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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Just curious. Are Topbucks going to continue helping out those that are still fighting? Or do the deals have some sort of clause saying they can't do this?26 + 6 = 1Comment
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Originally posted by jimthefiend
what IS relevant is that no one is fighting it in court.
these "no ones" are fighting in court:
Companies challenging Acacia's patent infringement claims in court:
Defense Group:
Video Secrets
Homegrown Video
Lightspeed
ARS
Gamelink
Ademia
AEBN
Audio Communications
Other Companies fighting a lawsuit but not part of the Defense Group:
Silver Cash
Max Cash
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Originally posted by jimthefiend
settlement CAN be used as a precedent to rule on most civil litigation
The two class action suits proposed by Acacia have not been approved so your quotation of "Rule 23 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure " is not relevant at this time.
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Big boys getting fucked in the ass now ! I just hope lens will fight it !Originally posted by rayadp05Comment
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Originally posted by chodadog
Just curious. Are Topbucks going to continue helping out those that are still fighting? Or do the deals have some sort of clause saying they can't do this?
Companies who have settled are able to modify the contract.
Some have gotten clauses removed like the "no anti-acacia involvement" clause. Others,that i have heard could get their money back upon invalidation, etc.
Irregardless of what the contract says, support can be given privately..
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you have no idea what i, or even you are talking about.Originally posted by FightThisPatent
The two class action suits proposed by Acacia have not been approved so your quotation of "Rule 23 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure " is not relevant at this time.
Fight the Legalese!
from your site:
This website defines Patent Abuse as when a patent holder uses Patent and Civil Law to sue companies to license their interpretation of what they want their patent to mean that is broader than what the USPTO thought at the time, and that potential prior art is available to invalidate the claims. Many times, these companies do not have any technology themselves, and are merely licensing the patent.
clueless.Comment
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Originally posted by jimthefiend
clueless.
Since i didn't go to law school... please explain this:
How is "Rule 23 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure" relevant?
There are 10 defendants going to court on Feb 6th, first day of Markman Hearing.
Acacia has proposed two class action lawsuits but they have not been granted.
These are the facts.
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precedent is irrelevant if the patent is found invalid.
do you think civil court will make people pay licensing for use of an invalid patent?Got Gay and For Women Traffic?
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Once Jim passes the bar exam and becomes a real lawyer he's going to set up an online practice and give all of his old porn buddies sweetheart deals on billing rates.
I just know it.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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Originally posted by FightThisPatent
Since i didn't go to law school... please explain this:
How is "Rule 23 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure" relevant?
There are 10 defendants going to court on Feb 6th, first day of Markman Hearing.
Acacia has proposed two class action lawsuits but they have not been granted.
These are the facts.
Fight the Facts!
rule 23 is only ONE of the applicable ones that allow settlements to be used as precedent. can you grasp that?
im a little confused as to why youd sink that much effort into "fightthispatent.com" without some sort of input from an attorney.
would you like me to reccomend one to you?Comment
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Originally posted by CDSmith
Once Jim passes the bar exam and becomes a real lawyer he's going to set up an online practice and give all of his old porn buddies sweetheart deals on billing rates.
I just know it.
im in talks with three attorneys right now r.e. the "webmasterslegal" domain name i own.Comment
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There you go. That, along with a "can win" attitude will take you far. I'd even consider making you the councel of choice on the "Site's against censorship" website.Originally posted by jimthefiend
im in talks with three attorneys right now r.e. the "webmasterslegal" domain name i own.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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Have you graduated from law school?
Are you an attorney?
I presume both answers are NO... so why should I take your opinion as being fact?
You can quote from the law, but they are inapplicable to this situation from my arm-chair viewpoint. What is relevant is that the validity of the patent can ONLY be decided by a court and the USPTO (for re-exam). Prior settlements WILL NOT affect the court case since the court arguments are based on FACTS pertaining to the claims, rather than the decisions of companies who settled. Surely you understand this.
Also, you seem to have some kind of personal agenda here. You looking to get hired by Acacia?
I do consult with attorneys, and if i wanted to make a point of refuting your points, i can have the lawyers respond laughingly to your comments... but this issue isn't about you...it's about Acacia's patent.
If you want to keep pumping for Acacia... you should do it on the ACTG stock boards...atleast you will be speaking to the choir.
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cuteOriginally posted by CDSmith
There you go. That, along with a "can win" attitude will take you far. I'd even consider making you the councel of choice on the "Site's against censorship" website.
man you jumped my shit. all im doing is making observations on what i see happening. thats no reason to kill me dude.
i think acacia is shit, and the patent will likely eventually be voided. (if anyone ever bothers to get good representation and take acacia to court)
that does not change current events though man.
the people signing does concern me though.Comment
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Originally posted by FightThisPatent
Prior settlements WILL NOT affect the court case since the court arguments are based on FACTS pertaining to the claims, rather than the decisions of companies who settled. Surely you understand this.
have you even been READING this thread?Comment
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Where the fuck have you been for the past year and a half?Originally posted by jimthefiend
what are you talking about?
you dont think acacia is prepared to show up in court to pursue this?
*sigh*
thats irrelevant, what IS relevant is that no one is fighting it in court. they are SIGNING. that means several things:
"no one is fighting it in court"
Excuse me, but there ARE companies fighting it in court. There is a court date set NEXT MONTH.
Lightspeed, AEBN, Silvercash, Maxcash, ARS, Homegrown... these companies ARE fighting it in court and have been ever since Acacia first started sniffing around their doors in late 2002!!!!Comment
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Originally posted by jimthefiend
i think acacia is shit, and the patent will likely eventually be voided. (if anyone ever bothers to get good representation and take acacia to court)
You keep posting along this same topic.... do you know that there are defendants against acacia? That have hired Fish & Richardson? Do you know there is a Markman Hearing scheduled for Feb 6th?
You have repeatedly suggested that no one is fighting them.
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I suppose now that Fish & Richardson, the largest and best patent attorneys in the nation, aren't "good representation"?Originally posted by jimthefiend
i think acacia is shit, and the patent will likely eventually be voided. (if anyone ever bothers to get good representation and take acacia to court)
Because they are the ones that have been fighting Acacia this entire time thanks to the Defense Group and the ones who will be facing Acacia's lawyers in court the first week of February.
For all of your "observing" that you keep falling back on to justify your statements, you sure are lacking in ANY solid facts about this situation.
Edit: February, not December. Dammit, the guy on the radio said December just as I was typing that.Comment
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Damn that's a pity. Some of their sites are going to be hard for me to replace
I don't send TB as much traffic as I used to so it could be worse but for a number of reasons I wont work with people who support Acacia in any form, and refusing to fight is supporting Acacia however you look at it and whatever the reasons for doing so were.
Oh well
All the other bullshit patent scams waiting in the sidelines must be rubbing their hands with glee. It seems Acacia was right - the porn industry is wayyy to fragmented too work together and would rather give in to extortion. Makes you wonder how many other 'crap patent' companies people will be willing to settle with once the other claims start pouring in.
I suppose we should be thankful some companies still have the balls AND long term vision to see why they should fight. Far too many in this game can't see further than the next 12 months ahead, if that far.Last edited by Tipsy; 01-12-2004, 08:40 AM.Ignorance is never bliss.
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read about fish and richardson here
they represented alexander graham bell and the wright brothers. more recently, their client list reads like a who's who in business their clients
how much better could patent representation be?????Got Gay and For Women Traffic?
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ok carrie, fight this
when they actually APPEAR in court and get a ruling, then theyll have "fought this"
which is not at odds with what ive said at all.
semantics.
course a lot of things can happen between now and than cant they?Comment
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a lot can happen between now and next month?
besides, why are you so sure they'll win the ruling? they lost more than one of their patents in the past.Got Gay and For Women Traffic?
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I jumped your shit because you deserved it. Try being more positive... this patent hasn't even been proven as valid. Some prelimiinary cave-ins are probably common and expected in "industry-wide" legal issues like this, but it is my opinion that it is way too soon for companies and people to be giving up hope.Originally posted by jimthefiend
cute
man you jumped my shit. all im doing is making observations on what i see happening. thats no reason to kill me dude.
i think acacia is shit, and the patent will likely eventually be voided. (if anyone ever bothers to get good representation and take acacia to court)
that does not change current events though man.
the people signing does concern me though.
It's not over til it's over. Right now it's far from over.Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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Originally posted by basschick
besides, why are you so sure they'll win the ruling? they lost more than one of their patents in the past.
i think if youll scroll up youll see where i stated i figured theyd eventually have the patent voided
youre missing my point entirely carrie
and sure, they can settle in the hallway 5 minutes before court begins. or at any time during the year plus itll take to litigate ita lot can happen between now and next month?Comment
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bookmark this...Everyone will sign..then Acacia will start going after the non adult co's and lose..then all the paying vultures will swoooop down and challenge the agreements that had been ALREADY payed out for several years. They know this..now you do.Comment
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The fight has only begun my brother. This ones going to take a good 3 to 5 years at minimum to fight. What we can all hope for is an injunction to prevent the paying of license fees while it's all being litigated and that the majors and others quit fucking selling the rest of us out by signing sweetheart deals now.Originally posted by CDSmith
I jumped your shit because you deserved it. Try being more positive... this patent hasn't even been proven as valid. Some prelimiinary cave-ins are probably common and expected in "industry-wide" legal issues like this, but it is my opinion that it is way too soon for companies and people to be giving up hope.
It's not over til it's over. Right now it's far from over.
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Exactly what I'm saying.Originally posted by Digipimp
The fight has only begun my brother. This ones going to take a good 3 to 5 years at minimum to fight. What we can all hope for is an injunction to prevent the paying of license fees while it's all being litigated and that the majors and others quit fucking selling the rest of us out by signing sweetheart deals now.
If 500 porn companies were to just ignore acacia's little letter and make them come after them.... does anyone (Jim) really think acacia can afford to launch individual suits against 500 different companies?Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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Originally posted by CDSmith
does anyone (Jim) really think acacia can afford to launch individual suits against 500 different companies?
no i dont of course, but i wouldnt rule out possible class actions regardless of their luck with them so farLast edited by jimthefiend; 01-12-2004, 08:50 AM.Comment
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They have appeared in court a number of times now, they simply haven't gotten to the point yet where a ruling has been made. Being that the judges were switched last fall, they had to basically start all over. Thankfully, the new judge (the Sex.com judge btw) made a decision right off that this would be a Markham hearing.Originally posted by jimthefiend
ok carrie, fight this
when they actually APPEAR in court and get a ruling, then theyll have "fought this"
which is not at odds with what ive said at all.
semantics.
course a lot of things can happen between now and than cant they?
The next court date is first week of Feb - I believe Feb 2nd? That's only 3 weeks. The only things that can happen between now and then is that more smaller sponsors decide to fund Acacia's side of things by signing.
Fish & Richardson already have all of their prior art ready to go. They are simply waiting for the opportunity to show it to the judge so this patent can finally be ruled valid or invalid.Comment
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They can but they wouldn't want to. The plan is like this if you want it broken down for you.Originally posted by CDSmith
Exactly what I'm saying.
If 500 porn companies were to just ignore acacia's little letter and make them come after them.... does anyone (Jim) really think acacia can afford to launch individual suits against 500 different companies?
They'll license companies and those companies will eventually if the patents are validated force you the webmaster to license by threatening to cancel your account if you don't comply.
Well of course ACACIA would never be able to individually go after thousands of webmasters they work their way from the top to the bottom. So all these big sellouts license sweetheart deals give up your info and can't contribute to the fight anymore. Then the patents get validated because so many sign up and so many from the fight have quit and left because of the mounting pressure. Then your promoting TopBucks and TopBucks says you the affiliate need to license in order to promote and bam you're fucked!Comment
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Originally posted by Digipimp
.... that the majors and others quit fucking selling the rest of us out by signing sweetheart deals now.
Most of all the big players have signed... with the following companies sued, but their position is not known:
Club Jenna
Orgasm.com
Webpower Inc. = Click Cash (iFriends)
Cybernet Ventures = Adult Check
Global AVS = ProAdult
ICS Inc. = adult.com / GFY
National A-1 Advert =
singles.com, sextoys.com , girls.com , guys.com , ladies.com, slaves.com , celebrities.com, cash.com
The only other major player is Playboy who has not been sued, but is in discussions (much like many other companies).
What remains to be seen in the last of the big players is if they settle or fight.
For all the rest of the webmasters... maybe you need to look at it as they have not "sold you out", but instead, making their own business decisions..afterall, most are your competitors anyways.
Gone are the days of comradary and community.... it's all about biz despite the congregating at the local water hole.
Acacia's posting of the list of sponsors that settled, clearly show that this patent can be used as competition eliminator.
The only way to fight back, is to come together as a group. IMPA is the only group that is advocating all webmasters come together (including those that signed), so that current and future issues can be dealt with.
Acacia is the first company to come into the Adult Industry space for patent licensing. Mainstream has been dealing with this all the way back to Henry Ford's time. There are other patent holders in this video space, and other patent holders on other patents related to the way webmasters do business.
Crying foul and sticking your head in the sand won't help.
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I am ceasing to promote any sponsor of mine that caves in.Originally posted by Digipimp
They can but they wouldn't want to. The plan is like this if you want it broken down for you.
They'll license companies and those companies will eventually if the patents are validated force you the webmaster to license by threatening to cancel your account if you don't comply.
Well of course ACACIA would never be able to individually go after thousands of webmasters they work their way from the top to the bottom. So all these big sellouts license sweetheart deals give up your info and can't contribute to the fight anymore. Then the patents get validated because so many sign up and so many from the fight have quit and left because of the mounting pressure. Then your promoting TopBucks and TopBucks says you the affiliate need to license in order to promote and bam you're fucked!Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!
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i also might point out that they added 8 or 10 defendants in december and the decision granting the suits class action status hasnt been made yet
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I am too, fuck those motherfuckers! I'll start and promote my own shit like I'm starting to finally do now.Originally posted by CDSmith
I am ceasing to promote any sponsor of mine that caves in.
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Originally posted by Digipimp
Well of course ACACIA would never be able to individually go after thousands of webmasters they work their way from the top to the bottom.
What Acacia has done, is proposed to the judge to form two class action lawsuits having Python and Adult Check represent the classes.
The class action lawsuits have not been approved at this time.
If the class action is approved, then this is the way that Acacia can go after the thousands of webmasters.. by lumping everyone together.
Each company could opt-out of the class action, and defend their companies on their own. Other's would be riding on the outcome of what the lead company does in court.
In the meantime, the Feb 6th court date still looks good. Before the first day of the Markman Hearing starts, we should be able to read about Acacia's Q4 results.
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lets say acacia sues a company. Cant you just request a jury trial. Isnt it up to acacia to prove that their patent applies to you.Ever notice that pretty much everything added to the Constitution after the original was a mistake.Comment
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I agree... you have to keep in mind that this is all just business... and business is about making a profit and keeping any risks low.Originally posted by nobull
look at it this way, TopBucks is a business...a business is formed to make money, they gave it their best shot to try and fight. After a year of review they found that there was a good chance that everything they have built could go to shit if they lost the lawsuit...so they signed the agreement....why is that sooo hard to understand. I would sign if in their position and everyone (that has any business sence) would too.
I don't think less of anyone coz of this.Media Buyer - Sell me your traffic!
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Originally posted by rooster
lets say acacia sues a company. Cant you just request a jury trial. Isnt it up to acacia to prove that their patent applies to you.
Yes, but it does mean you have to have the money to go to court.
The buy-in to the Defense Fund is $35K. Which means you could get your legal representation from F&R... but most are still stuck at the price tag.. yes.. $35K to buy-in, and that could be raised higher as the court case goes along and the money pool gets drained.
The members of the Defense Group are shouldering a heavy financial load in fighting this case, with a successful outcome helping all companies.
While I am not in favor of boycotting companies that settled, I can say that supporting the affiliate programs or buying content from the defendants:
Video Secrets
Homegrown Video
Lightspeed
ARS
Gamelink
Ademia
AEBN
Audio Communications
would certainly help them to continue to fund their cases, as well as people contributing to the Defense Fund and/or joining the IMPA.
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