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galleryseek

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#1

With approx. 98% of internet users w/ flash...

01-10-2004, 09:48 PM

do you guys see it unfit to use flash in any type of site (mainstream & adult), for instance i'm working on a very in depth fitness site (a lot of dynamic programming), and an easy to use navigation system will be a must... but i think i can really add an element of uniquneness to the site by including the navigation as flash, giving it a real nice professionally animated feel to it while making it simple and as easy to use (if not easier) than standard html buttons...

i agree, the average designer shouldn't use flash because they don't know how to use it correctly and it comes out looking cheesy... but disregarding that fact, as far as statistics and such go, could it be a positive for a site like mine if it were done well?

opinions...
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serious

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#2

01-10-2004, 10:01 PM

i don't think iv ever seen flash used where the nagivation is easier than straight html, it's usually very annoying and slow. but if you think you can make it work i would like to see it.

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rowan

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#3

01-10-2004, 10:05 PM

Just my 2c, I personally hate flash for navigation since it's basically like a site contained within a page. The usual controls like reload, back and forward do not work as expected. If you hit back on your flash site then you end up at the previous HTML page (perhaps the page you clicked on to get to it), rather than the previous content within the flash site.

I've come across at least one site that is done in flash that has a couple of dead-end areas... once you get to that section you cannot do anything except reload the page, which restarts the flash.
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#4

01-10-2004, 10:06 PM

My op, I wouldn?t use flash on adult sites ( if I did it would be real small flash files)

Reason for that is lot of people are still on dialups, and waiting for flash to load on a dialup is no fun, especially when you got your dick in your hand waiting to join a site.

I would defiantly use flash on any mainstream site, it's always the element thats lacking on most sites.

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#5

01-10-2004, 10:10 PM

I think Flash looks good in banners, but when I go to a site I want to see what I went there for. And be sure it's not to be impressed by a designer, especially if I've got my dick in my hand.

The problem is we all feel the most important thing about a site is what we are best at, designers think it's got to be great design, I think it's the porn, traffic guys say it's the hits.

Look at some of the top sites and see how they do it.

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galleryseek

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#6

01-10-2004, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by serious
i don't think iv ever seen flash used where the nagivation is easier than straight html, it's usually very annoying and slow. but if you think you can make it work i would like to see it.

well, if the flash designer is good, he can make it so that the file size is practically equal to the file size as if it were html... and the navigation itself would load up very quickly, and not do some stupid intro shit..

the navigation could be easier than straight html in the fact that if the animation were designed properly it can be a lot more attention grabbing (in a non-annoying way) than a static html image could be.
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galleryseek

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#7

01-10-2004, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by rowan
Just my 2c, I personally hate flash for navigation since it's basically like a site contained within a page. The usual controls like reload, back and forward do not work as expected. If you hit back on your flash site then you end up at the previous HTML page (perhaps the page you clicked on to get to it), rather than the previous content within the flash site.

I've come across at least one site that is done in flash that has a couple of dead-end areas... once you get to that section you cannot do anything except reload the page, which restarts the flash.

correct... but i'm not referring to a site done fully in flash.. just a navigation.. and the navigation itself reloading wouldn't be a problem since there wouldn't be any kind of extensive animation introductions.
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galleryseek

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#8

01-10-2004, 10:25 PM

here are a few examples of what i'm referring to for a navigation system done in flash:

http://www.1000dreams.com/portfolio/ now mind you, i understand its a full flash site, but looking at the navigation specifically its very simple and has a cool effect on hover.. nothing annoying yet cool.

http://www.logoyes.com/index2.html this is a good example.

http://www.broadcom.com and another.
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AOJ Brian

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#9

01-11-2004, 12:06 AM

The only flash like to see in sites is as a replacement for an animated gif.. then it's kind of interesting and unique..

I saw one site a while back that was like this, and it looked really funky.. I wish I bookmarked it.

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#10

01-11-2004, 12:35 AM

I nearly always open a link in a new background tab (Mozilla Firebird), this is fucked in flash and is damn annoying!

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Rorschach

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#11

01-11-2004, 01:53 AM

Flash sucks. Users want easy access to quality information, they don't want eye candy. After the first 5 seconds of thinking "wow that looks pretty cool," flash quickly becomes a pain in the ass.
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#12

01-11-2004, 02:08 AM

back button can be implemented in flash very easy..
http://www.robertpenner.com/index2.html - experiments -> back button

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#13

01-11-2004, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by Rorschach
Flash sucks. Users want easy access to quality information, they don't want eye candy. After the first 5 seconds of thinking "wow that looks pretty cool," flash quickly becomes a pain in the ass.

bullshit!

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Rorschach

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#14

01-11-2004, 02:14 AM

If you say so.
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#15

01-11-2004, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by flashfreak

bullshit!

Disagree.

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Smokey The Bear

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#16

01-11-2004, 02:48 AM

I love flash but it doesnt work well with se's
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galleryseek

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#17

01-11-2004, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by Smokey The Bear
I love flash but it doesnt work well with se's

hm, this could be a reason within itself not to use it... i wonder how MUCH it'll cost ya though, i'm no SEO expert
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#18

01-11-2004, 09:17 AM

Flash has it's uses... but some things should not be flash... like an animated menu that you have to sit and watch everytime you go back to a page.

As long as it does not inconvenience the viewer, then flash can be o good thing... but if I have to wait through the entire flash animation EVERY TIME i go to that page.. then it is just not worth the time

So if you use flash... use it wisely.

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#19

01-11-2004, 09:20 AM

Flash is nice to build in some pretty nice effects to a site and to give the users something special, but after the 2nd visit of a site I would prefer to have a straight html version which will be easier and faster to handle.

For banners it is the worst thing you can do, Paul

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galleryseek

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#20

01-11-2004, 09:28 AM

i think i can make a small "html menu" button next to it and they can choose to view an html version of the menu... but i'm confident that i can design the flash so that they wouldn't mind using it... there wouldn't be in any intro animation (maybe like 1 second worth of the links goin into place) and the hover effects would be hm.. "satisfying"
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#21

01-11-2004, 09:44 AM

The legendary link:

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html
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arg

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#22

01-11-2004, 09:52 AM

Galseek, you seem deadset on using flash for navigation, despite everyone's advice to the contrary, so I'm not sure why you asked here. Everyone who sets up annoying flash user interfaces thinks "oh well mine will be different," it's still damn annoying. Instead of flash with an "html" button, how about try html with a "flash" button...see how many people actually seek out a flash user interface. I can't think of a major site (google, yahoo, cnn, espn, etc.) that uses Flash for navigation. For irritating ads that are forced on users, sure thing, but not navigation.
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galleryseek

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#23

01-11-2004, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by AdultNex
The legendary link:

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html

"Although multimedia has its role on the Web, current Flash technology tends to discourage usability for three reasons: it makes bad design more likely, it breaks with the Web's fundamental interaction style, and it consumes resources that would be better spent enhancing a site's core value. "

"makes bad design more likely".... i can design flash pretty well so that wouldn't be the case

"it breaks with the web's fundamental interaction style" whatever the fuck that means

"consumes resources that would be better spent enhancing a site's core value", well that was written in 2000... this is 2004.. so as long as your flash isn't 5 megs you should be fine.
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#24

01-11-2004, 09:57 AM

I only really like flash for animations and splash pages, I can't stand it for navigation. Just my opinion. Good luck.
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galleryseek

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#25

01-11-2004, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by arg
Galseek, you seem deadset on using flash for navigation, despite everyone's advice to the contrary, so I'm not sure why you asked here. Everyone who sets up annoying flash user interfaces thinks "oh well mine will be different," it's still damn annoying. Instead of flash with an "html" button, how about try html with a "flash" button...see how many people actually seek out a flash user interface. I can't think of a major site (google, yahoo, cnn, espn, etc.) that uses Flash for navigation. For irritating ads that are forced on users, sure thing, but not navigation.

1. i'm not deadset, but i like the idea... the web is going to proceed to get more animated oriented in the future, same thing happened with Pictures, to TV. the only barrier is connection speed, which WILL increase. so i'm asking on GFY (and irc) to see how others feel about it.

2. "Everyone who sets up annoying flash user interfaces", well that is applicable to people who setup ..annoying.. FUI's, mine won't be ;)

3. those major sites that don't use flash don't use it maybe because a 2% loss of traffic = a lot of $

I don't see how creating a navigation something like these two examples:
http://www.logoyes.com/index2.html
http://www.broadcom.com

could be "annoying"?
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#26

01-11-2004, 10:06 AM

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arg

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#27

01-11-2004, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by galleryseek

"it breaks with the web's fundamental interaction style" whatever the fuck that means

I don't see how creating a navigation something like these two examples:
http://www.logoyes.com/index2.html
http://www.broadcom.com
could be "annoying"?

Let's start with the fundamental interaction style: go to a site in IE with a two button mouse, and right click an HTML link. Open, Open in New Window, Save Target As, Print Target, Copy Shortcut, Add to Favorites, ... Translate into English, whatever, depending on what software you have installed. Most aren't used that often, but "Open in New Window," I use that a LOT. That's a very concrete example of how your examples "could" (in fact ARE) annoying.

Okay, another example of standard interaction, say I want to find the support link on a busy site with a lot of text. I usually <ctrl-f>support<return>. If there's an HTML link on the page called support, it scrolls the page until it's visible, then highlights the text. If it's flash navigation, it would pop up a box saying to "not found."

Another example, say I'm working on my Sony laptop with a 5" screen, and having trouble reading the text. In a standard web site, I hit the control key, scroll my mouse wheel downward, and all the text on a page gets bigger. With flash, it doesn't. These last two examples apply to graphical navigation systems too, but I typically find those more annoying than text, and flash more annoying than graphics.

Then there are the varying versions of Flash...my laptop had an older version of Flash until recently, as it uses a slower modem to connect, and nav bars written for one version of Flash don't always work for others. The only example I can think of was internet-expo.com's site, because that's what I was trying to navigate in Vegas, and it just wouldn't work for whatever reason. You'd hover a mouse over the menu, and nothing happened. After a flash upgrade and system reboot it worked, but there's another example where it's just plain annoying.
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#28

01-11-2004, 11:33 AM

most porn webmaster build galleries no flash allowed it is slow and to be honest i will close a site if it has a flash intro.

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#29

01-11-2004, 11:47 AM

Dial up users are our target audience. They are the ones that are new to the internet and havent surfed around thousands of free porn sites. They probably havent visited many porn sites and dont have time for flashy stuff.

Just my

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