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justsexxx

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#1

NEW PC system, questions

01-05-2004, 12:29 PM

What would you advice

Asus P4P 800 Deluxe INTEL 865PE 115.5
CD-DVD IDE 16x48 LiteOn Retail 27.5
CD-DVD+/-RW IDE 8x4x4x2x12 / 40x24x40 LiteOn Ret. 141.5
Aopen H500A ATX 49
1 GB 800 MHZ 318
2* 200,0GB Maxtor 7200rpm ATA133 8MB 288
19 inch NEC LCD
Intel P4 3,066GHz Socket 478 box 512Kb 800FSB 256

Or should I go for the AMD 64 instead?

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brothenberg

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#2

01-05-2004, 12:54 PM

I'd advice not building one unless you need it..

New Processors are being released this year soon, more pins..

BTX cases are being released, much better cooling..

no more PCI/AGP cards, which SUCK... as PCI-Express is going to be a standard.. this means new Mobo's, new video cards, new DDR2, new CASES.. everything will be new and hopefully better... SATA 2.0 will be coming end of year or next year...

check out the register in uk for more info, there is a whole nice article.

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justsexxx

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#3

01-05-2004, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by brothenberg
I'd advice not building one unless you need it..

New Processors are being released this year soon, more pins..

BTX cases are being released, much better cooling..

no more PCI/AGP cards, which SUCK... as PCI-Express is going to be a standard.. this means new Mobo's, new video cards, new DDR2, new CASES.. everything will be new and hopefully better... SATA 2.0 will be coming end of year or next year...

check out the register in uk for more info, there is a whole nice article.

Thanks for the info. Well I need it actually, I can wait max 1-2 months....The one I have now is really killing me...

As far as waiting till next year, then you can ALWAYS wait..Because over 2 years etc etc :-)

Andre

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DrGuile

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#4

01-05-2004, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by brothenberg
I'd advice not building one unless you need it..

New Processors are being released this year soon, more pins..

BTX cases are being released, much better cooling..

no more PCI/AGP cards, which SUCK... as PCI-Express is going to be a standard.. this means new Mobo's, new video cards, new DDR2, new CASES.. everything will be new and hopefully better... SATA 2.0 will be coming end of year or next year...

check out the register in uk for more info, there is a whole nice article.

You are basically telling him to wait for a year.

I have very surprising news for you: In a year, new things will be again 1 year from being mainstream.

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aleck

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#5

01-05-2004, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by justsexxx
What would you advice

Asus P4P 800 Deluxe INTEL 865PE 115.5
CD-DVD IDE 16x48 LiteOn Retail 27.5
CD-DVD+/-RW IDE 8x4x4x2x12 / 40x24x40 LiteOn Ret. 141.5
Aopen H500A ATX 49
1 GB 800 MHZ 318
2* 200,0GB Maxtor 7200rpm ATA133 8MB 288
19 inch NEC LCD
Intel P4 3,066GHz Socket 478 box 512Kb 800FSB 256

Or should I go for the AMD 64 instead?

if you really need 400gigs of space for your movies - cool then , but if you want some speed i'd recommend a bit other:

get a mobo with SATA, put Raptor (36 gigs enough) for system files and put 200-300 gigs CHEAP 2Mb drive for your movies or shit like that

cd. dvd. etc - up to you, as well as LCD (good pick tho)

get INWIN case - they are better IMHO. upto 400Wt.

get 2.8 intel p4 with HT it will cost 30% less and only 10% slower

you forgot a video card also, but that's up to you.

my main point: don't go with two huge semi-fast drives. get one super-fast and the 2nd super-big for less or same money you'll get higher perfomance and almost the same space (there are 250-300 gig drives already)

Last edited by aleck; 01-05-2004, 01:54 PM.

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johnbosh

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#6

01-05-2004, 01:55 PM

its pricy
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justsexxx

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#7

01-05-2004, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by aleck

if you really need 400gigs of space for your movies - cool then , but if you want some speed i'd recommend a bit other:

get a mobo with SATA, put Raptor (36 gigs enough) for system files and put 200-300 gigs CHEAP 2Mb drive for your movies or shit like that

cd. dvd. etc - up to you, as well as LCD (good pick tho)

get INWIN case - they are better IMHO. upto 400Wt.

get 2.8 intel p4 with HT it will cost 30% less and only 10% slower

you forgot a video card also, but that's up to you.

my main point: don't go with two huge semi-fast drives. get one super-fast and the 2nd super-big for less or same money you'll get higher perfomance and almost the same space (there are 250-300 gig drives already)

Thanks for your serious reply. As far as the HDD, I want to run them in raid1. So I am safe with disk failures(had that to many times already) besides that, I will add some cheaper drives for storage...

I forgot the videocard. I was thinking about
ATI RADEON 9600 PRO 128MB TV-OUT / DVI 128Euro

Andre

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aleck

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#8

01-05-2004, 02:01 PM

9600 is cool.

as for drives - i have SCSI for system and two IDE's for files. was thinking about a RAID as well, looks like it's making response time longer.
new 15k SCSI's are too expensive and 36gig raptor for ~120 bucks is a good deal

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aleck

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#9

01-05-2004, 02:10 PM

just check out tomshardware.com and choose the fastest drives then ;-)

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#10

01-05-2004, 02:11 PM

i'd go for the p4 and not wait for the amd, never liked my amd's allthough i have one atm
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brothenberg

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#11

01-05-2004, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by DrGuile

You are basically telling him to wait for a year.

I have very surprising news for you: In a year, new things will be again 1 year from being mainstream.

No this is all coming out very soon... if you can wait, it'd be worthwhile just a few months, unless you wanna piss away 2-3k..

Depends what you need it for, if you read the first part, I said if you don't need it, wait... that doesnt mean wait untill next year for better stuff... simply meant hold off a little bit as the new formats are all coming out...

on the flip side prices will also be dropping once all this stuff becomes public and so forth...

For my recomendations.. get a mitsumi over Liton.. better support. mitsumi is one of the largest OEM supplies for PC parts.

If you can afford SATA, bump up those drives, yet there are killer deals on HD's right now too, that are IDE, check fatwallet.com for current specials.

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#12

01-05-2004, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by brothenberg
I'd advice not building one unless you need it..

New Processors are being released this year soon, more pins..

BTX cases are being released, much better cooling..

no more PCI/AGP cards, which SUCK... as PCI-Express is going to be a standard.. this means new Mobo's, new video cards, new DDR2, new CASES.. everything will be new and hopefully better... SATA 2.0 will be coming end of year or next year...

check out the register in uk for more info, there is a whole nice article.

New shit always comes out. If he keeps waiting he will never get a new one. Better buy it and get a new one next year.

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#13

01-05-2004, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Krille
i'd go for the p4 and not wait for the amd, never liked my amd's allthough i have one atm

Never touched AMD before but I feel like getting one and see what all the hype is about.

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#14

01-05-2004, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by justsexxx
What would you advice

Asus P4P 800 Deluxe INTEL 865PE 115.5
CD-DVD IDE 16x48 LiteOn Retail 27.5
CD-DVD+/-RW IDE 8x4x4x2x12 / 40x24x40 LiteOn Ret. 141.5
Aopen H500A ATX 49
1 GB 800 MHZ 318
2* 200,0GB Maxtor 7200rpm ATA133 8MB 288
19 inch NEC LCD
Intel P4 3,066GHz Socket 478 box 512Kb 800FSB 256

Or should I go for the AMD 64 instead?

nice setup! what about your vid card & your power supply?
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#15

01-05-2004, 03:30 PM

Id take the AMD

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justsexxx

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#16

01-06-2004, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by BigFish

nice setup! what about your vid card & your power supply?

I take an ATI, and as power, I take the standard 400 watt AOPEN power supply

Andre

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iroc409

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#17

01-06-2004, 04:00 AM

lol, for those of you that think that btx and pci express is going to be _standard_ within a year is most likely mistaken. in fact, if i were a betting man, i'd bet it won't happen.

why you ask? i've been doing some looking around as well, because although i think pci express will be nice, btx is retarded. i've talked to a friend that works in a local computer store, and he feels the same as i do.

think about it this way. look how long it took to phase out both isa and at standards. yeah, a long time, and a lot of boards were dual purpose for quite some time. my guess is around 3 years out.

look at the computer stores. where is the pci express and btx crap? it's not here yet, even with mixed forms (i.e. both pci express and agp).

and what about btx? _everything_ has to be changed for that. all the peripherals have to be changed (remember pci cards are upside down), which means a lot of retooling and such. all cases and power supplies have to be replaced. it's not going to happen overnight by any means.

not only that, but the cooling isn't exactly exponentially increased. yes, the processor will be cooler, but the heat from the processor will make everything else hotter. that's why the atx psu is built how it is, to pull heat off the cpu. the reason for btx is grandma's tiny-ass computer she keeps by her bedstand. it was mainly pushed because of these micro systems that are halfway useless.

also, as far as i know, there are no video cards and such for pci express either, which i believe is part of the reason the new bus was created (to replace agp). neither are there any other peripherals that i'm aware of.

so, that's my theory and i'm sticking to it.

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#18

01-06-2004, 04:11 AM

I always prefer to buy a cheap PC even if it's up to date cause just for ie and toshop a PIII is good enough.

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justsexxx

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#19

01-06-2004, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by jds
I always prefer to buy a cheap PC even if it's up to date cause just for ie and toshop a PIII is good enough.

I don't

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bigdog

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#20

01-06-2004, 04:43 AM

what about a mac
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#21

01-06-2004, 04:44 AM

oh, here's my take on the amd 64 vs p4.

as far as perfomance goes, strait up the amd has the edge. it is faster, _in most cases_. it's also quite pricey, with the 2.0ghz opteron 146 at well over the price of a 2.8 p4.

i think where the p4 would shine at the moment is with the hyperthreading technology. in smp apps, this could be a benefit over amd's setup. however, in 'real world' type benchmarks, amd still seems to reign supreme (this is including intel's upcoming and overly used 'extreme edition'). i would, however, suggest an opteron series chip instead of an FX or athlon64. personal preference, and an FX is pretty much a 1xx series opteron.

i've been considering this issue for a workstation quite a bit. it's a tough decision .

the other option is to get a 2xx series opteron and a duallie board, and slap in another opteron chip down the road for a very fast smp setup. but the 2xx series chips are _quite_ expensive, even at the same speeds. i do not think the 1xx series can be modded to smp, but i suppose the jury is still out on that one.

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goBigtime

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#22

01-06-2004, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by justsexxx
What would you advice

Asus P4P 800 Deluxe INTEL 865PE 115.5
CD-DVD IDE 16x48 LiteOn Retail 27.5
CD-DVD+/-RW IDE 8x4x4x2x12 / 40x24x40 LiteOn Ret. 141.5
Aopen H500A ATX 49
1 GB 800 MHZ 318
2* 200,0GB Maxtor 7200rpm ATA133 8MB 288
19 inch NEC LCD
Intel P4 3,066GHz Socket 478 box 512Kb 800FSB 256

Or should I go for the AMD 64 instead?

No reason to get the AMD64 on windows. Windows isn't 64 bit.

Go to google... type in "2.4c overclock"

The new p4 2.4c is one of the most highly overclockable CPU's since the old Celeron 300a.

If you buy good ram you can get it to 3.6ghz with ease.
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#23

01-06-2004, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by bigdog
what about a mac

lol
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iroc409

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#24

01-06-2004, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by goBigtime

No reason to get the AMD64 on windows. Windows isn't 64 bit.

Go to google... type in "2.4c overclock"

The new p4 2.4c is one of the most highly overclockable CPU's since the old Celeron 300a.

If you buy good ram you can get it to 3.6ghz with ease.

that's partly true.

the 2500 _unlocked_ bartons are very overclockable, as well. and, that depends if we're looking for an oc system.

the amd chip has both 32 and 64 bit instructions. granted, it's true power would be much better used in something like freebsd (which does now fully support the amd64 architechture), in benchmarking and such the 64 bit athlons still seem to have a decent edge over the p4.

don't get me wrong, the p4 seems like a nice processor (i haven't used it... i haven't had an intel since my old celery 533a), but amd really has a nice product in the 64.

not only that, but the opteron was good enough for apple ;)

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goBigtime

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#25

01-06-2004, 05:02 AM

Originally posted by aleck

my main point: don't go with two huge semi-fast drives. get one super-fast and the 2nd super-big for less or same money you'll get higher perfomance and almost the same space (there are 250-300 gig drives already)

Good point there....

Anyway Andre here's what you need:

Intel 2.4c CPU (to be overclocked to 3.6ghz @ over 1000mhz fsb on fan cooling!)

ABIT IC7-G Motherboard

Either cheap PC4000, or PC3700 high performance low latency ram.. depending on what the system will primarly be intended for.

A good heatink like Thermaltake SLK-900u, pop a big fan on top of that.

I think I might go with 2 SATA 36gig raptors and run it on raid 0 (SATA raid included on motherboard)

OR since I have a U160 controller around here somewhere, maybe I'll just get a bigger 15k SCSI drive.
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#26

01-06-2004, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by iroc409

granted, it's true power would be much better used in something like freebsd (which does now fully support the amd64 architechture), in benchmarking and such the 64 bit athlons still seem to have a decent edge over the p4.

FreeBSD's AMD64 support is still in its infancy... as much as I am a lover of Free BSD over linux, the AMD64 on Linux is (for now) far more developed and stable.

I only know this because I have to build a big mysql db server soon -- there is nothing better to use for this than dual opteron on Linux.

Originally posted by iroc409

not only that, but the opteron was good enough for apple ;)

Apples processor is made by IBM
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justsexxx

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#27

01-06-2004, 05:12 AM

Thanks all for the serious input..

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justsexxx

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#28

01-06-2004, 05:13 AM

Originally posted by johnbosh
lol

Dude your such a loser you even need to post useless crap here. What about you stay away from my topics...Get a job, go back to school, make burgers, whatever, and I'm sure you will make more money then you do now with your sig...Damn you are really a sad guy

Andre

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iroc409

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#29

01-06-2004, 05:20 AM

i really don't know much about linux, but considering the community things usually happen a little faster there, so it would not surprise me at all if it's built better for the architecture. however, FreeBSD is now supporting a full seperate release version as "tier 1" for the chip, so i imagine the support is at least fairly decent. i wouldn't imagine they'd name a release version and have it suck total balls.

if my memory serves me correctly, amd and ibm were somewhat of bedfellows in producing the opteron chip. i believe in the basic architecture the g5 and opteron are very similar, although the amd chip seems a little more refined. it can, for example, support 2x the memory of the g5 i believe. i dunno about the hypertransport issues, but that may also be an improvement.

however, independant tests are actually that, and in most situations it seems that the amd chip does have an edge over intel, even with the EE's l3 cache. only in programs that really use that (which is fairly limited), and games built on the quake 3 engine does the p4 come ahead. so, even though there really isn't a lot of support out yet for the 64bit architecture, it's still performing admirably in that area.

just something to think about.

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goBigtime

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#30

01-06-2004, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by iroc409
i really don't know much about linux, but considering the community things usually happen a little faster there, so it would not surprise me at all if it's built better for the architecture. however, FreeBSD is now supporting a full seperate release version as "tier 1" for the chip, so i imagine the support is at least fairly decent. i wouldn't imagine they'd name a release version and have it suck total balls.

Yeah I saw that it was "tier 1" too... and then I talked to a few avid FreeBSD'ers in the same situation as me & they said stay away for awhile. I don't think "tier 1" implies superior performance as much as it does stability. If you are building a operton mysql server you are doing it for mega queries per second.

if my memory serves me correctly, amd and ibm were somewhat of bedfellows in producing the opteron chip. i believe in the basic architecture the g5 and opteron are very similar, although the amd chip seems a little more refined. it can, for example, support 2x the memory of the g5 i believe. i dunno about the hypertransport issues, but that may also be an improvement.

Yeah IBM and AMD have some partnerships I guess, but Apples currently "officially" ran on IBM chips. They are probably very similar to Opterons.. hell, maybe they are the same chip & Apple's marketing gurus decided that saying their powerhouse was made by big blue IBM sounded a lot better than AMD - and the stigma associated with it by people who don't know beans about tech (which are for some silly reason the people who are usually put in charge of making major purchasing decisions for companies).

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#31

01-06-2004, 07:43 AM

well, i haven't used the amd64 release of FreeBSD, so honestly i really wouldn't know maybe someday, but i have yet the need for that kindof power in a BSD box.

as far as the whole ibm and apple thing, i'm sure the amd chip is very much amd, however i think it's the basic architecture they share. amd obviously took the basics and went much further with it, something apple really isn't in a position to do.

i'm sure the g5 is a neat chip, but i'd say the amd outclasses it in a few places. but, all in all, for most applications the chips are fairly similar. it's not until you get into some serious stuff, like jargantic photoshop stuff, 3d rendering and movie crunching where you'll notice a large difference, from what i've seen.

the only thing that torqued me off is the marketing pitches used by apple about the g5... that was rather dissappointing.

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