Porn Stars get tested for STD's huh?

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  • Pad
    elephants dont swat flies
    • Aug 2003
    • 1262

    #1

    Porn Stars get tested for STD's huh?

    It can take up to 6 months for a shitload of STD's to even show up on results. During that period, no symptoms could occour and the slampig could just kick hiv around like a hacky sack. I bet that shit happens all the time, You've probably all jacked off to somebody's life being ruined at least once.
  • johnbosh
    Confirmed User
    • Aug 2002
    • 8965

    #2
    stragnge

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    • TDF
      Triple OG nigga on GFY
      • Mar 2002
      • 27296

      #3
      Originally posted by Pad
      It can take up to 6 months for a shitload of STD's to even show up on results. During that period, no symptoms could occour and the slampig could just kick hiv around like a hacky sack. I bet that shit happens all the time, You've probably all jacked off to somebody's life being ruined at least once.

      stay behind the monitor
      Sig heil

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      • pamphage
        Confirmed User
        • Jan 2003
        • 3569

        #4
        Originally posted by Pad
        It can take up to 6 months for a shitload of STD's to even show up on results. During that period, no symptoms could occour and the slampig could just kick hiv around like a hacky sack. I bet that shit happens all the time, You've probably all jacked off to somebody's life being ruined at least once.
        true enough. thats why i don't date sluts and whores
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        • GonePhishing
          Confirmed User
          • Oct 2003
          • 2474

          #5
          I have heard that there was an AIDS outbreak in 1998 that affected maybe 5 pornstars. I also heard that there was recently (perhaps this summer) a STD outbreak of clap and clam or syph n clam. It may have affected 11 or so people. I could be mistaken, but I think that a google search would yeild several articles about it and the organization that monitors STD'S in pornstars.
          If Biff Fucks My Mom... I Might Never Be Born...

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          • TDF
            Triple OG nigga on GFY
            • Mar 2002
            • 27296

            #6
            i heard there are monstahs in muh backyard
            Sig heil

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            • GonePhishing
              Confirmed User
              • Oct 2003
              • 2474

              #7
              A few links:

              http://www.aegis.com/news/ap/2001/AP010538.html

              http://aim-med.org/avn-1.html

              http://weblogs.variety.com/the_porning_report/
              (scroll down to the Working 9 to 5 article)

              A couple of the articles are older, the last one is more recent. In reading over these I think the HIV number since 1998 is 11.
              If Biff Fucks My Mom... I Might Never Be Born...

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              • pamphage
                Confirmed User
                • Jan 2003
                • 3569

                #8
                porn is a disease
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                • uptheyingyang
                  Confirmed User
                  • May 2003
                  • 376

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Pad
                  It can take up to 6 months for a shitload of STD's to even show up on results. During that period, no symptoms could occour and the slampig could just kick hiv around like a hacky sack. I bet that shit happens all the time, You've probably all jacked off to somebody's life being ruined at least once.
                  unfortunately true.

                  and, for the first time in some years new hiv+ cases are on the rise in the USA.
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                  • baddog
                    So Fucking Banned
                    • Apr 2001
                    • 107089

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Pad
                    It can take up to 6 months for a shitload of STD's to even show up on results. During that period, no symptoms could occour and the slampig could just kick hiv around like a hacky sack. I bet that shit happens all the time, You've probably all jacked off to somebody's life being ruined at least once.
                    minors should not be posting here

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                    • Pad
                      elephants dont swat flies
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 1262

                      #11
                      shit is crazy

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                      • Pad
                        elephants dont swat flies
                        • Aug 2003
                        • 1262

                        #12
                        Originally posted by baddog


                        minors should not be posting here
                        get over it you little bitch

                        i'm in the game so get used to my name cause you'll be bombarded with it for the rest of your time around here

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                        • baddog
                          So Fucking Banned
                          • Apr 2001
                          • 107089

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Pad


                          get over it you little bitch

                          i'm in the game so get used to my name cause you'll be bombarded with it for the rest of your time around here



                          some parent's children

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                          • Pad
                            elephants dont swat flies
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 1262

                            #14
                            your site sucks, who taught you how to throw a site on the web a 3 year old child with down syndrome? you lack skills and intelligence, which is why all future comments by you directed at me will appear to be ignored

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                            • chica
                              Confirmed User
                              • Apr 2003
                              • 194

                              #15
                              a pad hit me up on munieca0204 my aim

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                              • TheSaint
                                Confirmed User
                                • Jun 2003
                                • 991

                                #16
                                1. We insist adult models have the PCR DNA test, it reveals if you got aids within the last few days, not 6 months.

                                2. In most cases "old" stds like Syph and Gono can be treated with 1 shot.

                                3. We use condoms, sadly not every porn shoot does, perhaps not even most. A real shame, because best evidence is its near impossible to get aids just from drinking cum or pussy or fucking with a condom.

                                4. When you got your talent under 2000 watts its real easy to see active herpies and cancel the shoot.

                                Bottom line - being a pornstar is not 100% safe but is relatively safe. I respect the girls that take a manageable risk for a shitload of cash, isn't that what life is about.
                                I have no signature

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                                • uptheyingyang
                                  Confirmed User
                                  • May 2003
                                  • 376

                                  #17
                                  [QUOTE]Originally posted by TheSaint
                                  [B]1. We insist adult models have the PCR DNA test, it reveals if you got aids within the last few days, not 6 months.

                                  well, more correctly, it reveals if you've been exposed to the hiv virus, not if you have aids.


                                  but if the do that Saint, my hat is off to you.

                                  today ALL established porn producers use that test if they are los angeles based.

                                  problem is, outside of the established porn producing areas the test is not widely done.

                                  and you are correct that oral activities are mostly safe.

                                  BUT, if any performer is receiving anal without condom from ANYONE who you have not been with and watched the activities of for the past 5-7 days you are risking your life, PCR DNA test or not.

                                  personally, if real sex is involved i will only shoot parties who are ALREADY in an active sexual relationship.
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                                  • Dugmor
                                    The Traffic Cowboy
                                    • Jan 2002
                                    • 7687

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Pad
                                    It can take up to 6 months for a shitload of STD's to even show up on results. During that period, no symptoms could occour and the slampig could just kick hiv around like a hacky sack. I bet that shit happens all the time, You've probably all jacked off to somebody's life being ruined at least once.
                                    That is exactly correct !
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                                    • uptheyingyang
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • May 2003
                                      • 376

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Dugmor


                                      That is exactly correct !

                                      if more people understood this everyone would be alot safer.

                                      and it really pains me to see the way poor women are handled outside of the usa, but i won't even get into that.
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                                      • MetaMan
                                        I AM WEB 2.0
                                        • Jan 2003
                                        • 28682

                                        #20
                                        porn makes baby jesus cry,
                                        Stds make baby devil smile

                                        porn is bad

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                                        • juice
                                          Confirmed User
                                          • Jan 2003
                                          • 628

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Dugmor


                                          That is exactly correct !
                                          Dugmor is infected!

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                                          • Pad
                                            elephants dont swat flies
                                            • Aug 2003
                                            • 1262

                                            #22
                                            Love is all we need

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                                            • Fletch XXX
                                              GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                              • Jan 2002
                                              • 60840

                                              #23
                                              Hello .... Idiots. (knock knock)

                                              Porn girl gets PCRDNA test on Monday Jan 1st, on Wednesday the 3rd she goes to a club and meets handsome lad who unknowingly has AIDS, she fucks him without condom he spews all over her and inside her mouth.

                                              PCRDNA is the most silly thing in this industry. Its a FALSEHOOD.

                                              Here in LA, girls are KNOWN to be lazy with tests and some guys will work with them even if they arent current, I have seen it and know it exists.

                                              These things are not accurate within a few days, sicne it takes awhile for certain things to show up.

                                              Im not a disease specialist, but I have seen girls with current PCRDNA, fuck guys who arent even in this industry, and did so without condom, whores are whores and sluts are sluts.

                                              NEVER touch the talent.

                                              Shoot process, upload, but dont touch them

                                              Mark Wallice showed you folks what can happen. He forged his tests for awhile and was fucking top notch stars, guess what, he and others were posotive.

                                              There are soooo many loopholes in this crap its pathetic.

                                              You people put your life at risk by fucking a model EVEN with current PCRDNA, its a false hope for the desperate and horny.

                                              Id never fuck talent.

                                              they give away PCRDNA tests on the corners here in LA, all the models have them hahah dont make them accurate.

                                              Id never trust these animals.

                                              hahah
                                              Last edited by Fletch XXX; 12-23-2003, 12:01 PM.

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                                              • playa
                                                Confirmed User
                                                • Feb 2001
                                                • 6432

                                                #24
                                                i'd let talent suck my dick

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                                                • DrGuile
                                                  Confirmed User
                                                  • Jan 2002
                                                  • 2025

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Fletch XXX
                                                  Id never fuck talent.
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                                                  • Wiseman
                                                    Confirmed User
                                                    • Jan 2002
                                                    • 2990

                                                    #26
                                                    You mean fucking sluts and whores could cause getting a disease!!!!!

                                                    FUCK!!
                                                    Why didnt someone tell me this!!!
                                                    [*]E-mail: [email protected][*]ICQ: 109726012[*]AIM: QbWiseman

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                                                    • Dugmor
                                                      The Traffic Cowboy
                                                      • Jan 2002
                                                      • 7687

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by juice


                                                      Dugmor is infected!
                                                      I am not ......... just pointing out what Pad wrote !

                                                      A lot of those tests do not work and disease's can be dormant for months if not years !

                                                      This business is a risk and if you do not understand that.......... they don't get in it !
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                                                      • Rictor
                                                        Old Timer
                                                        • Jan 2001
                                                        • 12208

                                                        #28
                                                        You are probably at greater risk fucking a skank at a bar than a pornstar. At least pornstars GET tested.

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                                                        • Peter Romero
                                                          Long time no happy ending
                                                          • Feb 2003
                                                          • 10618

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Fletch XXX
                                                          Hello .... Idiot (knock knock)

                                                          Mark Wallice showed you folks what can happen. He forged his tests for awhile and was fucking top notch stars, guess what, he and others were posotive.

                                                          That was an Eliza test. 90 - 180 day window period.

                                                          When was the last time you dated someone - and right before you got to fucking... you turned on the lights, compared tests, looked for open sores under 2000 watt lights, checked thier ID's? Or, when did you & everyone reading this even got any - or all - of YOUR STD tests every 30 days... or at all? It's not fail-safe, but ignorance is bliss only if you are ignorant or clueless to know what your blood says.

                                                          Don't cross your fingers no matter who you are - get tested regularly. People are still having sex you know. Every single day, in every house, apartment, office building & back ally - in every City, State, Country & Island in the world. But the only place I have been asked for proof of negative STD tests - is in Porno. Touche!


                                                          [email protected]

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                                                          • Peter Romero
                                                            Long time no happy ending
                                                            • Feb 2003
                                                            • 10618

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by Rictor
                                                            You are probably at greater risk fucking a skank at a bar than a pornstar. At least pornstars GET tested.
                                                            What he said in above post.

                                                            What Dugmor said:

                                                            " This business is a risk and if you do not understand that.......... they don't get in it !"

                                                            Please list any or all high paid, easy, risk free occupation Here:


                                                            [email protected]

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                                                            • Fletch XXX
                                                              GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                                              • Jan 2002
                                                              • 60840

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by POV Porn guy


                                                              That was an Eliza test. 90 - 180 day window period.

                                                              When was the last time you dated someone - and right before you got to fucking... you turned on the lights, compared tests, looked for open sores under 2000 watt lights, checked thier ID's?
                                                              Sorry guy, I dont fuck sluts and whores I meet in bars.

                                                              Id rather be drunk and high than in a bed with some disease ridden tramp.

                                                              This is where some men differ.

                                                              You are a pornstud, I am not, we will naturally see things diffetrently.

                                                              While you may just fuck whoever you want, Id rather not.

                                                              Condomless sex is not something to play with, look at it however you want, Ive been in this industry and around talent long enough to know what I know. Dealt with talent from 97 on...

                                                              You make your living fucking the talent so theres no way we could agree on who I touch and who I do not. Who to fuck and who not to.

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                                                              • Dugmor
                                                                The Traffic Cowboy
                                                                • Jan 2002
                                                                • 7687

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by POV Porn guy


                                                                What he said in above post.

                                                                What Dugmor said:

                                                                " This business is a risk and if you do not understand that.......... they don't get in it !"

                                                                Please list any or all high paid, easy, risk free occupation Here:
                                                                I feel safer working with industry girls than fu*king skanks from a bar !
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                                                                • Rictor
                                                                  Old Timer
                                                                  • Jan 2001
                                                                  • 12208

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by Dugmor


                                                                  I feel safer working with industry girls than fu*king skanks from a bar !
                                                                  I've never fucked an industry girl or a bar skank.

                                                                  Just some girls from high school and college and my wife. I've lived such a sheltered life.

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Peter Romero
                                                                    Long time no happy ending
                                                                    • Feb 2003
                                                                    • 10618

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Fletch XXX
                                                                    [B]
                                                                    QUOTE]Sorry guy, I dont fuck sluts and whores I meet in bars.
                                                                    Nither do I.

                                                                    Id rather be drunk and high than in a bed with some disease ridden tramp.
                                                                    Before I got into porn, every girl I ever fucked said: "I normally don't do this, but..."

                                                                    You are a pornstud, I am not, we will naturally see things diffetrently.
                                                                    I love it when another man calls me a stud.

                                                                    While you may just fuck whoever you want, Id rather not.
                                                                    I fuck who I need to fuck.

                                                                    Condomless sex is not something to play with
                                                                    Agreed 100%

                                                                    You make your living fucking the talent so theres no way we could agree on who I touch and who I do not. Who to fuck and who not to.
                                                                    Well... don't touch me with or without your STD tests and we'll get along just fine.


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                                                                    • Fletch XXX
                                                                      GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                                                      • Jan 2002
                                                                      • 60840

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Somehow the talent always gets a little upset when you talk to them like the are different.

                                                                      POVguy didnt meant to get you upset.

                                                                      Talent is talent, you buy them dinner and hang with them i just make money off their pics and movies

                                                                      hehehe

                                                                      Have fun, in this thread, im going eat a hamburger and take a shower then I gotta make christmas calls to the folks

                                                                      time to get drunk too!


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                                                                      • Peter Romero
                                                                        Long time no happy ending
                                                                        • Feb 2003
                                                                        • 10618

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by Fletch XXX
                                                                        Somehow the talent always gets a little upset when you talk to them like the are different.

                                                                        POVguy didnt meant to get you upset.

                                                                        Talent is talent, you buy them dinner and hang with them i just make money off their pics and movies

                                                                        hehehe

                                                                        Have fun, in this thread, im going eat a hamburger and take a shower then I gotta make christmas calls to the folks

                                                                        time to get drunk too!

                                                                        Drinking & driving are very UN-SAFE!!!


                                                                        [email protected]

                                                                        See them all here: https://www.Petergirls.com

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                                                                        • Peter Romero
                                                                          Long time no happy ending
                                                                          • Feb 2003
                                                                          • 10618

                                                                          #37
                                                                          I'm not pissed. But, I am too busy to continue with this subject - gotta run. Think I'll get into my 2000 pound weapon (car) and drive 70 miles an hour with thousands of other people with the same weapons - whilst they talk on thier cellphones without a headset, do thier make-up, write a novel, watch TV, or just plain drive stupid or drunk.

                                                                          Is that safe? Does anyone die from doing that? How many a year? Millions? Any porn deaths Lately? Don't say John Holmes - he died before the industy was tested. Toodles!


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                                                                          • GonePhishing
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • Oct 2003
                                                                            • 2474

                                                                            #38
                                                                            hehehe, the thread has taken an intersting turn
                                                                            If Biff Fucks My Mom... I Might Never Be Born...

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                                                                            • Buff
                                                                              GFY Assassin
                                                                              • May 2003
                                                                              • 2993

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Mark Mateo practices safe sex <--- check the video

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                                                                              • codymc12
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • May 2003
                                                                                • 719

                                                                                #40
                                                                                *YAWN*

                                                                                Unless the girls you have sex with are presenting you with an STD/HIV test every 30 days (and you are as well) - then I'm afraid all this post is based on is the same,

                                                                                tired,

                                                                                boring,

                                                                                double standard bullshit from some guys that seriously need to grow up.

                                                                                There's as much (probably more) STD's/HIV going around, on a per capita basis, in the 'normal world' as in the porn world.

                                                                                You want to be safe, you have to either abstain or be in a completely monagamous relationship. Anything after that, comparisons are based on prejudice, not reality.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • codymc12
                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                  • May 2003
                                                                                  • 719

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Jack Dickolson had a few things to say about this in his Oscar worthy monologue, in the movie, 'A Few Good Pornstars'. I quote:

                                                                                  Jack: "You want answers?"

                                                                                  Pad: "I think I'm entitled."

                                                                                  Jack: "You want answers?"

                                                                                  Pad: "I want the TRUTH!"

                                                                                  Jack: "You can't HANDLE the truth. The truth is, we live in a world with porn stars. Who's going to fuck those pornstars? You, Pad? You, Fletch XXX? Porn Star Fuckers have a greater capacity for content than you could possibly fathom.

                                                                                  You weep for the ?normal girl? and you curse the guys that hit pornstar pussy. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know : That Porn Girls, while they get around, create content. And their existence, while grotesque, and incomprehensible to you, creates content. You don't want the truth. Because deep down in places you don't talk about on GFY threads, you WANT pornstars making that content. You NEED pornstars making that content. Because they do a better job at it than you ever would if it was YOUR cock on the line....I'm sure they have neither the time, nor the inclination, to explain themselves to a webmaster who eats and sleeps under the monthy paychecks they help provide, then questions the manner in which they provide it. I'm sure they?d rather you just said "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up *YOUR* camera, and pull out *YOUR* cock, so that we may have a look and at least get a good laugh. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!"


                                                                                  *SNIFF*

                                                                                  brings a tear to my eye...

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Fletch XXX
                                                                                    GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                                                                    • Jan 2002
                                                                                    • 60840

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by codymc12
                                                                                    Jack Dickolson had a few things to say about this in his Oscar worthy monologue, in the movie, 'A Few Good Pornstars'.....
                                                                                    You have no clue do you?

                                                                                    I have worked in the film side of this industry LONG before I got into being a webmaster.

                                                                                    I dealt with talent cancelling, I dealt with talent and their tests for years. I dealt with women trying to get around having to have a test, I know how these people are. I dealt with them cancelling shoot after shoot for years.

                                                                                    I speak ONLY from experience.

                                                                                    So go submit a gallery and keep quoting your idols.

                                                                                    Talent to me is just some person responding to a fake ad in the LA weekly

                                                                                    Just because I choose to not fuck them, I am wrong? hahaha whatever guy.


                                                                                    hahaha

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                                                                                    • codymc12
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • May 2003
                                                                                      • 719

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by Fletch XXX


                                                                                      You have no clue do you?

                                                                                      I have worked in the film side of this industry LONG before I got into being a webmaster.

                                                                                      I dealt with talent cancelling, I dealt with talent and their tests for years. I dealt with women trying to get around having to have a test, I know how these people are. I dealt with them cancelling shoot after shoot for years.

                                                                                      I speak ONLY from experience.

                                                                                      So go submit a gallery and keep quoting your idols.

                                                                                      Talent to me is just some person responding to a fake ad in the LA weekly

                                                                                      Just because I choose to not fuck them, I am wrong? hahaha whatever guy.

                                                                                      hahaha
                                                                                      Fletch, I have been shooting content in front of and behind the camera for six years now, so I thiiiink I can speak on this subject as well.

                                                                                      To answer your question - no, you're not wrong because you choose not to fuck them. You're wrong because you choose to revile and degrade them, even as you sit and make money from what they do.

                                                                                      Kind of like the drug dealer who looks down on the users he sells to - silly and hypocritical.

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                                                                                      • Fletch XXX
                                                                                        GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                                                                        • Jan 2002
                                                                                        • 60840

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by codymc12


                                                                                        Fletch, I have been shooting content in front of and behind the camera for six years now, so I thiiiink I can speak on this subject as well.

                                                                                        To answer your question - no, you're not wrong because you choose not to fuck them. You're wrong because you choose to revile and degrade them, even as you sit and make money from what they do.

                                                                                        Kind of like the drug dealer who looks down on the users he sells to - silly and hypocritical.
                                                                                        Degrade them?

                                                                                        Im not the one covered in cumwith my asshole gaping am I?

                                                                                        I have not really said anything bad about talent other than I wouldnt trust their tests.

                                                                                        I have been with my girl for almost 6 years and before that was very safe with sex.

                                                                                        My sex life and choices have nothing to do with this industry.

                                                                                        Sure I make money off of the talent, who doesnt?

                                                                                        Doesnt mean I have to lick their ass and baby them.

                                                                                        As I said, talent is just someone responding to an LA weekly ad, in other words a paid body to do what you ask. No different than a McDonalds worker.... i bet you have MUCH respect for McDonalds workers dont you?

                                                                                        I have nothing against them, other than here in LA most are catty overpaid strippers who found out its easier to fuck on film for 500 bucks than it is to dance in a club and hustle up lap dances.

                                                                                        BTW fuck mcdonalds workers too.


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                                                                                        • Fletch XXX
                                                                                          GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!!
                                                                                          • Jan 2002
                                                                                          • 60840

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Id like to see you guys tell someone like ROb Spallone hes got to respect the talent, or Jim South hahaha


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                                                                                          • codymc12
                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                            • May 2003
                                                                                            • 719

                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by Fletch XXX


                                                                                            Degrade them?

                                                                                            Im not the one covered in cumwith my asshole gaping am I?

                                                                                            I have not really said anything bad about talent other than I wouldnt trust their tests.

                                                                                            I have been with my girl for almost 6 years and before that was very safe with sex.

                                                                                            My sex life and choices have nothing to do with this industry.

                                                                                            Sure I make money off of the talent, who doesnt?

                                                                                            Doesnt mean I have to lick their ass and baby them.

                                                                                            As I said, talent is just someone responding to an LA weekly ad, in other words a paid body to do what you ask. No different than a McDonalds worker.... i bet you have MUCH respect for McDonalds workers dont you?

                                                                                            I have nothing against them, other than here in LA most are catty overpaid strippers who found out its easier to fuck on film for 500 bucks than it is to dance in a club and hustle up lap dances.

                                                                                            BTW fuck mcdonalds workers too.

                                                                                            Well, calling them animals....

                                                                                            But you know what - I recognize the satire in your post, too. So as long as your view is "Fuck them all, equally", then...

                                                                                            peace, brother.

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                                                                                            • bhutocracy
                                                                                              Not making A Comeback
                                                                                              • Dec 2001
                                                                                              • 10218

                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by codymc12

                                                                                              Kind of like the drug dealer who looks down on the users he sells to - silly and hypocritical.
                                                                                              what's wrong with a drug dealer looking down on his junkies?
                                                                                              I'd look down on anyone that paid me money to poison them.

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                                                                                              • codymc12
                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                • May 2003
                                                                                                • 719

                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by bhutocracy


                                                                                                what's wrong with a drug dealer looking down on his junkies?
                                                                                                I'd look down on anyone that paid me money to poison them.
                                                                                                Nothing - his opinion just doesn't have a lot of credibility.

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