Would we be seeing more cases like PIBCash where programs are accused of shaving b/c smaller to mid-sized PPS programs may want to compensate for pressures imposed by the new VISA regs? Or would these pressures just separate the wheat from the chaff?
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I know affiliate programs that are "reverse shaving" to keep their WM's happy...they are adding joins to accounts to make sure that valued WM's stick around.anyone shaving these days won't be around much longer.
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WHY WERE THE STATS LOCKED? its really a simple question noone has answered, I signed up to a program and got a sign up with no traffic, I questioned it and was told, "ya dude its real" WTF
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this can happen very quick.Originally posted by Veterans Day
WHY WERE THE STATS LOCKED? its really a simple question noone has answered, I signed up to a program and got a sign up with no traffic, I questioned it and was told, "ya dude its real" WTF
dumb webmasters who have typos in their affiliate code etc.Comment
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What impact, if any, does this practice have on minimizing the effects that affiliate fraud have re chargeback ratios for the sponsor? Ie., so happy so they don't cheat?Originally posted by ElvisManson
I know affiliate programs that are "reverse shaving" to keep their WM's happy...they are adding joins to accounts to make sure that valued WM's stick around.anyone shaving these days won't be around much longer.
I don't support nor wish to appear to condone shaving... however, I won't be surprised that some PPS sponsors might feel that this practice is a "justifiable" response to affiliate cheating. I spoke awhile back with the owner of a mid sized and growing affiliate PPS program and he said that at least 10% of payouts in every payout period is paid out to cheaters. Even with his extra vigilance, he feels that he's not catching them all.
Regardless... this doesn't excuse punishing all (via shaving) for the sins of a few.
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Hopefully ..but with the hundreds out there are we really sure?.This was by a disgruntled ex employee...are there more just biting their tounge ?Comment
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It has nothing to do with minimizing the efects of WM fraud..taking a little from all WM's to make up for the lack of proper fraud control you have is no justfication....it is bad business practice.Originally posted by $5 submissions
What impact, if any, does this practice have on minimizing the effects that affiliate fraud have re chargeback ratios for the sponsor? Ie., so happy so they don't cheat?
I don't support nor wish to appear to condone shaving... however, I won't be surprised that some PPS sponsors might feel that this practice is a "justifiable" response to affiliate cheating. I spoke awhile back with the owner of a mid sized and growing affiliate PPS program and he said that at least 10% of payouts in every payout period is paid out to cheaters. Even with his extra vigilance, he feels that he's not catching them all.
Regardless... this doesn't excuse punishing all (via shaving) for the sins of a few.
We pay many 100 of thousand of dollar every week to WM's and I would be very suprised if 1% is paid to WM's for fraudulent trans.
Mind you we probably devote more resources to preventing WM fraud than most.
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My guess is that virtually every program shaves in one way or another. Either they take the sales right out of your stats or they steal your traffic or they set your rebills to 3 months or whatever. I don't trust any of them.Comment
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open your own paysites that are specifically devoted to your traffic and then you don't have to worry about it.Originally posted by twistyneck
My guess is that virtually every program shaves in one way or another. Either they take the sales right out of your stats or they steal your traffic or they set your rebills to 3 months or whatever. I don't trust any of them.
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Good point, Spunky. Maybe the ultimate lesson in the PIBCash fiasco is that sponsors should at least keep their employees happy enough not to spill the beans.Originally posted by spunky1
Hopefully ..but with the hundreds out there are we really sure?.This was by a disgruntled ex employee...are there more just biting their tounge ?
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That's what I do. I have a few sponsor links out there from the old days but those are coming down one at a time.Originally posted by ElvisManson
open your own paysites that are specifically devoted to your traffic and then you don't have to worry about it.
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One possible scenario...explained by an invite only PPS employee I spoke with awhile back is that some scripts are kinda spotty in picking up any text after the ? in the REF ID. I wonder if this is intentional or just the nature of browsers and the Net. Obviously, he argued for the latter.Originally posted by twistyneck
My guess is that virtually every program shaves in one way or another. Either they take the sales right out of your stats or they steal your traffic or they set your rebills to 3 months or whatever. I don't trust any of them.
Regardless, this does raise the scenario of a "faultless" shaving mechanism... "Sorry, buddy, but its not our fault our script didn't pick up your ref... how would you know anyway? can you prove it through technical means?"Comment
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I'll be honest. I've always been under the impression that all sponsors shave in some way shape or form. For as long as i've been in this business, shaving has always been a term people throw around so someone must be doing it =)
I think its kind of like steroids in sports, i think we'd all be shocked to know the truth.
Make Major Bank With Major Personality - NaughtyBank! Featuring NaughtyAllie and NaughtyJulie!Comment
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Yeah, this happens, not sure what can be done about it. All I know is that somebody is getting paid and it isn't the affiliate. This is one more reason to run your own paysites.Originally posted by $5 submissions
One possible scenario...explained by an invite only PPS employee I spoke with awhile back is that some scripts are kinda spotty in picking up any text after the ? in the REF ID. I wonder if this is intentional or just the nature of browsers and the Net. Obviously, he argued for the latter.
Regardless, this does raise the scenario of a "faultless" shaving mechanism... "Sorry, buddy, but its not our fault our script didn't pick up your ref... how would you know anyway? can you prove it through technical means?"Comment
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Originally posted by twistyneck
That's what I do. I have a few sponsor links out there from the old days but those are coming down one at a time.
But send me your exit traffic.
$30 flat on a $1 per month trial join.
Tons of niches and if you have enough traffic we'll build sites for it.
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Anyone supporting PIB is being very naive. It is a well known fact that Rodney Connor is a Thief. He Fucked his Partner Killah out over $250,000 (That?s not a misprint by the way) He locked him out of all the admin areas and took total control of their PIB board. He was able to not only steal all the webmaster programs, scripts, servers, webmaster board and lastly but certainly not least the MONEY this was due to the fact that Rodney was the person in the States that controlled the bank accounts. With the money he stole he funded PIBcash. Even when he had more than enough money to pay for anything he needed to get his shit going he fucks a well known designer Bruno from Dickman?s Designs.
This is a quote from him:
?Well, first of all, I hate to bring that to public, but since I made a terrible mistake and had no contracts with this crook, I will post what happened. It sucks that legally I won?t be able to sue him and get my money.
We designed many paysites for him. He paid only one. He owes Dickmans Design more than U$24.000,00. But that?s all good, the universe takes care of balancing things up.
Its time for all of us to focus on working hard and hopefully RConn will be out of this industry soon.
Take care and kind regards,
Bruno Dickman
Then he started fucking people with his program ExitKing.com this is Rodney?s Traffic Brokering program. He had to start a new Traffic buying program because Killah was lucky enough to have not giving Rodney control of that Sellyourexit and Xitcash.
If you read the boards you can find all the people that he FUCKED with his ExitKing.com.
I am not sure of this URL will show up but it will explain some more of the things Rodney has done and the people he has FUCKED.
http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/s...ah&pagenumber=6
If people keep dealing with him and continue getting fucked they basically deserve it. It?s all out in the open now and it?s not just a couple of people that might have it in for him the proof is all over just up to you to open your eyes.Comment
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Uhm...if you read the posts before you, you'd realize that NO ONE in this board is supporting PIB and their alleged practices.Originally posted by TrafficBuyers
Anyone supporting PIB is being very naive.
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Isolated in that they got caught
You would be suprised at how many gas stations have the same sort of skim software on gas pumps. The manager buys the software and standalone for like 5k, secretly installs it and just steals a penny or 2 off each gallon. Makes himself a mint.
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pib is exitComment
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yes
they are past alreadyComment
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Yeah, that's a big problem here in So Cal. Those Russian gas station managers....Originally posted by  Smokey The BearÂ
Isolated in that they got caught
You would be suprised at how many gas stations have the same sort of skim software on gas pumps. The manager buys the software and standalone for like 5k, secretly installs it and just steals a penny or 2 off each gallon. Makes himself a mint.
cat cash* | tr -d '\r' | tr -s '/n' > moneyComment
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There seems to me only one way to decide who to drive traffic to. The guys that pay you the most for the work, money and effort you put in.
If one guy is shaving yet converting a dream, this could be because he's putting a lot of resorces and money into the site.
I know it sucks and it would be nice if everyone was honest, but an honest crap site does not pay the bills. Does anyone here know how well PIB actually paid for the effort put in?
However if what TrafficBuyers said is true, I would not be with anyone who acts like that. I know of an ex employee of PIB who got screwed out of their wages when they were fired and I do not think it's a unique case.Comment
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im pasting this a bit altered from another board i posted:
i'm all in good faith. I believe I'm in position to analyze the setup,marketing skills and billing model of every PPS sponsor I'm using and I pretty much avoid those potential shavers.
But why I will never accept a shaving sponsor unlike some others that claim as long as you make the most money with it shaving is ok?
Because running a PPS program is a very hard task, specially if you want to compete in payouts with the rest major sponsors. Shaving gave the opportunity to pretty much everyone with a medium capital to enter the PPS model and this is EXTREMELY BAD. These PPS owners DO NOT do whatever possible to maximize their profits like the rest because if they'll experience bad results they'll just adapt the shaving percentage. I can assure you NOT ALL pay per signup sponsors shave. I have analyzed the models of the PPS sposnors I'm using and I can justify their payouts. I can't say the same for PIBcash and this is the no1 reason I never send 'em any traffic. If you can't payout me what you promise, DON'T promise it as all. I can accept lower payouts and I'm sending traffic to sponsors paying $20-30/trial as well.
I expect to be treated the same way I treat others. All these years I haven't stole a single dollar from anyone, I will never will and I demand the same. You can do business by being clear and you can do pretty good. I can settle with thousands dollars less, but money made in an honest way. I'm sure this goes for the average webmaster as well.
food for thoughtComment
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Yeah okay.
Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
im pasting this a bit altered from another board i posted:
i'm all in good faith. I believe I'm in position to analyze the setup,marketing skills and billing model of every PPS sponsor I'm using and I pretty much avoid those potential shavers.
But why I will never accept a shaving sponsor unlike some others that claim as long as you make the most money with it shaving is ok?
Because running a PPS program is a very hard task, specially if you want to compete in payouts with the rest major sponsors. Shaving gave the opportunity to pretty much everyone with a medium capital to enter the PPS model and this is EXTREMELY BAD. These PPS owners DO NOT do whatever possible to maximize their profits like the rest because if they'll experience bad results they'll just adapt the shaving percentage. I can assure you NOT ALL pay per signup sponsors shave. I have analyzed the models of the PPS sposnors I'm using and I can justify their payouts. I can't say the same for PIBcash and this is the no1 reason I never send 'em any traffic. If you can't payout me what you promise, DON'T promise it as all. I can accept lower payouts and I'm sending traffic to sponsors paying $20-30/trial as well.
I expect to be treated the same way I treat others. All these years I haven't stole a single dollar from anyone, I will never will and I demand the same. You can do business by being clear and you can do pretty good. I can settle with thousands dollars less, but money made in an honest way. I'm sure this goes for the average webmaster as well.
food for thoughtcat cash* | tr -d '\r' | tr -s '/n' > moneyComment
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which part you dispute?Originally posted by - AFN -
Yeah okay.
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just another sanctimonious guy trying to say that people can trust him.....Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
which part you dispute?cat cash* | tr -d '\r' | tr -s '/n' > moneyComment
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trust me on what?Comment
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anyway,whatever, you seem to know everything. I'm not seeking your trust, so no worries.Comment
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not you, the guy in the article...Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
trust me on what?cat cash* | tr -d '\r' | tr -s '/n' > moneyComment
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i wrote that
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im cross-posting on boards to increase my post count
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hehehe coolOriginally posted by Soul_Rebel
im cross-posting on boards to increase my post count
cat cash* | tr -d '\r' | tr -s '/n' > moneyComment
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Good points, soul and $5. Cheating programs WILL be found out. The truth always outs. Sooner or later.
Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
im pasting this a bit altered from another board i posted:
i'm all in good faith. I believe I'm in position to analyze the setup,marketing skills and billing model of every PPS sponsor I'm using and I pretty much avoid those potential shavers.
But why I will never accept a shaving sponsor unlike some others that claim as long as you make the most money with it shaving is ok?
Because running a PPS program is a very hard task, specially if you want to compete in payouts with the rest major sponsors. Shaving gave the opportunity to pretty much everyone with a medium capital to enter the PPS model and this is EXTREMELY BAD. These PPS owners DO NOT do whatever possible to maximize their profits like the rest because if they'll experience bad results they'll just adapt the shaving percentage. I can assure you NOT ALL pay per signup sponsors shave. I have analyzed the models of the PPS sposnors I'm using and I can justify their payouts. I can't say the same for PIBcash and this is the no1 reason I never send 'em any traffic. If you can't payout me what you promise, DON'T promise it as all. I can accept lower payouts and I'm sending traffic to sponsors paying $20-30/trial as well.
I expect to be treated the same way I treat others. All these years I haven't stole a single dollar from anyone, I will never will and I demand the same. You can do business by being clear and you can do pretty good. I can settle with thousands dollars less, but money made in an honest way. I'm sure this goes for the average webmaster as well.
food for thoughtComment
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I think that's only true for well-known or large affiliates who send large amounts of traffic.. so if XXX from XXX gets 1:100 conversions, then he/she will refer webmasters.. Meh anyways.Originally posted by ElvisManson
I know affiliate programs that are "reverse shaving" to keep their WM's happy...they are adding joins to accounts to make sure that valued WM's stick around.anyone shaving these days won't be around much longer.
Cheers,
MattWhat name is pr0 / Untouched Markets using these days? Untouched Markets - pr0 - Refund My Money Now
Someone owes me $2,000 because they didn't do any work that was paid for *pointing at pr0 / William / UntouchedMarkets*
See http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=16744521 and for more detailed see http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=948645Comment
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Pressure isnt on mid sized programs to keep their visa stuff in line..
ask around..youll find out whos got trouble!
Shaving has to do with Greed..not with VisaComment
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know finally your making some sense for a change..Originally posted by ElvisManson
open your own paysites that are specifically devoted to your traffic and then you don't have to worry about it.
most sponsor's are dipping to much only to hurt themselves in the end? loose there good reputations and are actually forcing the webmaster's to open there own programs;
playing with fire only to get burned or listen to broken promises?
'my opinion'
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Since rumors are appreciated on this board...spill the beans on the ones that are in "trouble."
Originally posted by makefuckingmoney
Pressure isnt on mid sized programs to keep their visa stuff in line..
ask around..youll find out whos got trouble!
Shaving has to do with Greed..not with Visacat cash* | tr -d '\r' | tr -s '/n' > moneyComment
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not an isolated case...
not even close :/
sad but true...Investor with 5m - 15m USD to invest. Do you have a site or network of sites earning 50k - 200k a month income? Email your contact and preliminary data to: domain.cashventures (at) gmail.com....Please...no tire kickers...serious offers and inquiries only.
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Any info to back up this sentiment? Maybe a rumor?
Originally posted by TheJimmy
not an isolated case...
not even close :/
sad but true...cat cash* | tr -d '\r' | tr -s '/n' > moneyComment
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I hope that we don't see too many programs biting the dust around march - april when the Visa fines start biting. It only takes the death of a few to see payouts crash
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