Teacher to 1st-graders: Santa is fake!

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  • eroswebmaster
    March 1st, 2003
    • Jul 2001
    • 20295
    #51
    Originally posted by punkworld


    Yeah, I guess you're right. It's much better for children to be lied to so they believe some complete stranger gives them presents while their parents give them nothing, than telling them the truth and explaining that their parents are giving them presents because they love them very much and are very happy that they're there.

    Apparently you do not understand the concept of age appropriateness and parental responsibility.

    Kids should be taught from day one about dangers...of course. But you can do that without exposing the ugliness...you can educate a child about not taking candy from a stranger and about inappropriate behaviour without violating their innocence.

    the same applies to this santa debate. The teacher should have handled this appropriately and directed the kids to speak to their parents about it..as Sly said she could have spoken about the origin of Santa Claus or the concept of Santa Claus without addressing religion...this would have educated the child without violating their innocence.
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      • Spunky
        I need a beer
        • Jun 2002
        • 133978
        #52
        51 Lying Bitches
        Last edited by Spunky; 12-04-2003, 01:27 PM.

          Comment

          • eroswebmaster
            March 1st, 2003
            • Jul 2001
            • 20295
            #53
            Originally posted by punkworld


            So, basically, you told her that there is no fat guy named Santa, and managed to combine that with a very good message. Works for me
            Yes...but the thing is...I'm her caregiver. I am a responsible adult in her life...she has lived with me on and off for 10 years of her 11 years on this planet.

            I am not some substitute teacher or hell even her regular teacher who is only there in her life for 1 school year.
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              • Libertine
                sex dwarf
                • May 2002
                • 17860
                #54
                Originally posted by eroswebmaster
                Apparently you do not understand the concept of age appropriateness and parental responsibility.

                Kids should be taught from day one about dangers...of course. But you can do that without exposing the ugliness...you can educate a child about not taking candy from a stranger and about inappropriate behaviour without violating their innocence.

                the same applies to this santa debate. The teacher should have handled this appropriately and directed the kids to speak to their parents about it..as Sly said she could have spoken about the origin of Santa Claus or the concept of Santa Claus without addressing religion...this would have educated the child without violating their innocence.
                Who said anything about exposing the ugliness in it's full glory? There's a very large area between giving an explicit, detailed description and telling children lies, pretending there are no bad things in the world.
                I personally think the best thing is to give simple non-explicit explanations, preferably with examples they can relate to, and educate them with those. That way you can give them information and slowly teach them about the world, yet keep their outlook on life intact.


                As for the Santa debate, I personally think what you did with your niece is probably best... tell children the truth, but combine it with a positive message that is much better than that of the fat guy in a red suit.
                /(bb|[^b]{2})/

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                  • eroswebmaster
                    March 1st, 2003
                    • Jul 2001
                    • 20295
                    #55
                    Originally posted by punkworld


                    Who said anything about exposing the ugliness in it's full glory? There's a very large area between giving an explicit, detailed description and telling children lies, pretending there are no bad things in the world.
                    I personally think the best thing is to give simple non-explicit explanations, preferably with examples they can relate to, and educate them with those. That way you can give them information and slowly teach them about the world, yet keep their outlook on life intact.


                    As for the Santa debate, I personally think what you did with your niece is probably best... tell children the truth, but combine it with a positive message that is much better than that of the fat guy in a red suit.

                    No one said anything about exposing the ugliness...but I was trying to give you an example at how this teacher should have handled 2 seperate issues...1 dangers inthe worl...2 the santa claus question...she should have handled them both the same way educate them without violating their innocence...in fact maybe the 2nd one even more delicately as it does deal with beliefs.

                    You say the best thing to give is simple non-explicit answers...the teacher should have done just that...said...Santa Originates from...*insert story here* and then inform them to discuss it more with their parents and ask them about whether or not santa is real.

                    And as far as how I handled it with my youngest niece..that was handled that way when she was age appropriate...but when she was 5 it was all about a fat guy in a red suit.

                    Sure she was taught about the concept of giving as well...but come on nothing wrong with letting a kid fantasize about the joys of receiving too ;)
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                      • Libertine
                        sex dwarf
                        • May 2002
                        • 17860
                        #56
                        Originally posted by eroswebmaster


                        Yes...but the thing is...I'm her caregiver. I am a responsible adult in her life...she has lived with me on and off for 10 years of her 11 years on this planet.

                        I am not some substitute teacher or hell even her regular teacher who is only there in her life for 1 school year.
                        The problem is, how far should keeping information from children in school go?
                        Some parents may tell their children stories about the earth being flat - just stories, ofcourse - and might not appreciate it if a teacher is the one to tell children the earth is round and "expose" them as liars. Some parents may be religious, and do not want their children to hear about evolution theory. Some parents may be atheists, and do not want children to hear about creationism. Some parents may tell their children about the boogie man, and do not want their children to learn the truth from a teacher. Some parents may be racists, and do not want their children to learn about other cultures. Some parents may be whatever, and do not want their children to learn about whatever.

                        If you don't want teachers to give children knowledge, what good are teachers? Should schools make lists of what will come up in class each day of the year and let parents decide when to keep children at home?
                        /(bb|[^b]{2})/

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                          • On-top
                            Confirmed User
                            • Aug 2001
                            • 2283
                            #57
                            My teacher, cadet, or substitute told us at the beginning of 2nd grade there wasn't a Santa. Who gives a fuck? How did that make national news??

                            There is a time when everybody figures it out...just because parents want to lie to kids until they're 15 doesn't mean they should. I know the idea of Santa just fucked up my perception of the world early on...

                            I cleaned our chimney as a kid. How did some fat dude fit down my chimney, and creep through the little vent in our wood stove without getitng burnt? And why aren't these magical powers being put to better use?

                            LoL...don't get pissed at people for telling the truth, answering questions, etc. That's what teachers are supposed to do.
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                              • On-top
                                Confirmed User
                                • Aug 2001
                                • 2283
                                #58
                                Originally posted by punkworld


                                If you don't want teachers to give children knowledge, what good are teachers?
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                                  • eroswebmaster
                                    March 1st, 2003
                                    • Jul 2001
                                    • 20295
                                    #59
                                    Originally posted by punkworld


                                    The problem is, how far should keeping information from children in school go?
                                    Some parents may tell their children stories about the earth being flat - just stories, ofcourse - and might not appreciate it if a teacher is the one to tell children the earth is round and "expose" them as liars. Some parents may be religious, and do not want their children to hear about evolution theory. Some parents may be atheists, and do not want children to hear about creationism. Some parents may tell their children about the boogie man, and do not want their children to learn the truth from a teacher. Some parents may be racists, and do not want their children to learn about other cultures. Some parents may be whatever, and do not want their children to learn about whatever.

                                    If you don't want teachers to give children knowledge, what good are teachers? Should schools make lists of what will come up in class each day of the year and let parents decide when to keep children at home?

                                    Some of your examples are a bit extreme...but for most of it in alot of schools they will allow a child to opt out of lessons involving evolution etc.
                                    when I was in school my dad was highly religious and they started to teach mythology...a kid in my class was exempted because they felt in conflicted with their beliefs...my dad asked me about it and I opted to stay in class...I was 13.

                                    We are not talking about a "truth" that willl harm children. We're talking about a simple little story created to teach kids about giving..and the consequences of naughty behaviour.

                                    Bottom Line...every issue has to be taken as it comes...you can't have a blanket response to handling every single issue that may arise too many variables.

                                    You would handle "the world is flat" issue different than you'd handle a "is there a God?" issue.

                                    The teacher knew better...she has her own agenda to push that's it. Even if she didn't know better, she should have known enough to send the kids home to discuss it with their parents while she consulted with the principal or the school district on how to handle this matter.
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                                      • eroswebmaster
                                        March 1st, 2003
                                        • Jul 2001
                                        • 20295
                                        #60
                                        Originally posted by On-top
                                        My teacher, cadet, or substitute told us at the beginning of 2nd grade there wasn't a Santa. Who gives a fuck? How did that make national news??

                                        There is a time when everybody figures it out...just because parents want to lie to kids until they're 15 doesn't mean they should. I know the idea of Santa just fucked up my perception of the world early on...

                                        I cleaned our chimney as a kid. How did some fat dude fit down my chimney, and creep through the little vent in our wood stove without getitng burnt? And why aren't these magical powers being put to better use?

                                        LoL...don't get pissed at people for telling the truth, answering questions, etc. That's what teachers are supposed to do.
                                        The issue is not whether or not people figure it out it's whether or not it's someone elses responsibility to tell your kids...and if a kid believes in santa until he/she is 15 then that kid and his family have bigger issues to deal with.

                                        Eddted to add: Teachers are not there to answer all questions. there are boundaries...this teacher knew she was crossing them...that's it pure plain and simple.
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                                          • Libertine
                                            sex dwarf
                                            • May 2002
                                            • 17860
                                            #61
                                            Originally posted by eroswebmaster



                                            Some of your examples are a bit extreme...but for most of it in alot of schools they will allow a child to opt out of lessons involving evolution etc.
                                            when I was in school my dad was highly religious and they started to teach mythology...a kid in my class was exempted because they felt in conflicted with their beliefs...my dad asked me about it and I opted to stay in class...I was 13.

                                            We are not talking about a "truth" that willl harm children. We're talking about a simple little story created to teach kids about giving..and the consequences of naughty behaviour.

                                            Bottom Line...every issue has to be taken as it comes...you can't have a blanket response to handling every single issue that may arise too many variables.

                                            You would handle "the world is flat" issue different than you'd handle a "is there a God?" issue.

                                            The teacher knew better...she has her own agenda to push that's it. Even if she didn't know better, she should have known enough to send the kids home to discuss it with their parents while she consulted with the principal or the school district on how to handle this matter.
                                            They let parents keep children from attending classes on evolution/creationism in the US?!
                                            Personally, I think that's screwed up... preventing children from gathering knowledge and forming their own opinion is in my opinion a form of child abuse. Ofcourse, in this specific case, neither should be told as "the truth", but both sides should be explained, so children can form their own opinion...

                                            I would handle the "Is there a God?" issue exactly the same as the "Is the world flat?" issue though... by telling the truth. No, the earth is not flat, and there are some people who do believe God exists and some people who don't believe God exists.
                                            /(bb|[^b]{2})/

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                                              • Libertine
                                                sex dwarf
                                                • May 2002
                                                • 17860
                                                #62
                                                Originally posted by eroswebmaster


                                                The issue is not whether or not people figure it out it's whether or not it's someone elses responsibility to tell your kids...and if a kid believes in santa until he/she is 15 then that kid and his family have bigger issues to deal with.

                                                Eddted to add: Teachers are not there to answer all questions. there are boundaries...this teacher knew she was crossing them...that's it pure plain and simple.
                                                Why is Santa different from the flat earth?
                                                /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                  Comment

                                                  • eroswebmaster
                                                    March 1st, 2003
                                                    • Jul 2001
                                                    • 20295
                                                    #63
                                                    Originally posted by punkworld


                                                    They let parents keep children from attending classes on evolution/creationism in the US?!
                                                    Personally, I think that's screwed up... preventing children from gathering knowledge and forming their own opinion is in my opinion a form of child abuse. Ofcourse, in this specific case, neither should be told as "the truth", but both sides should be explained, so children can form their own opinion...

                                                    I would handle the "Is there a God?" issue exactly the same as the "Is the world flat?" issue though... by telling the truth. No, the earth is not flat, and there are some people who do believe God exists and some people who don't believe God exists.
                                                    Okay but the point is you should not tell them that god does NOT exist...that's not your job to do that.

                                                    And as far as the earth is flat issue vs santa issue I see it as different in that one involves something we can see..that is physical..and one involves "beliefs."

                                                    Sure you can start arguing now about how some people MIGHT believe or their religions MIGHT teach the earth is flat....but there is no way we can cover every single issue...you're always going to be able to offend someone at any time.

                                                    But with Christmas being a national holiday...secular for some religious for others you tend to offend alot more people.

                                                    No I'm not debating a majority vs minority issue...but the simple fact is that the santa issue is something that comes up every year for a whole new crop of kids...you don't have millions of kids every year showing up talking about how they think the earth is flat...and just by virtue of the fact that this issue does come up every year for millions of kids the teacher should have known better not to address it in class.

                                                    IMO I still believe she's pushing her agenda.
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                                                      • On-top
                                                        Confirmed User
                                                        • Aug 2001
                                                        • 2283
                                                        #64
                                                        Originally posted by eroswebmaster



                                                        And as far as the earth is flat issue vs santa issue I see it as different in that one involves something we can see..that is physical..and one involves "beliefs."

                                                        Huh? You make some interesting points...and I'm sure that teacher probably understood that by taking a side she was creating drama. But, just incase you're confused, the world isn't flat, and I'm pretty sure Santa doesn't really bring toys to everybody. J/k...but they are both 'physical'...AND they both involve 'beliefs' that are not in line with reality.
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                                                          • Ironhorse
                                                            Pixel Pusher
                                                            • Nov 2002
                                                            • 7094
                                                            #65
                                                            Originally posted by jennym


                                                            It's just the bland way a message board sounds. It was very "giggly". It was really cute. As I got older, my grandma always said "If you believe in Santa, he will come". And he did until I was about 30.
                                                            Giggly? I'm getting tingles down my spine just reading the story.

                                                            I'm sorry but you have some pretty twisted logic in forcefeeding your kid deception and lies even after they find out the truth without your help. 30 years is a little bit long to believe in Santa I think?

                                                            Why can't Christmas just be a festive holiday event where people exchange gifts in friendship, it sounds to me like you just want to control the whole event. To me this is more 'grinchlike' then somebody saying hey this is how it is and fantasy is ok but this is methodical brainwashing to get YOUR perfect fantasy going. It's a little bit selfish to say the least.

                                                            Nobody says people let's stop christmas, let's stop caring, let's stop exchanging gifts. People have lost all perspective of what is important. It's a damn shame. Let's all just go spend borrowed money cuz Santa says so, if you're a bad boy you get a spanking.
                                                            Last edited by Ironhorse; 12-04-2003, 02:38 PM.
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                                                              • Space Puppy
                                                                So Fucking Banned
                                                                • Nov 2003
                                                                • 817
                                                                #66
                                                                Santa does exist i know coz he just fondled my balls

                                                                He only cums once a year so its all the pleasure he gets

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                                                                  • Furious_Female
                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                    • Oct 2002
                                                                    • 8187
                                                                    #67
                                                                    Well if indulging a child's fantasies about Santa is wrong because it's "dishonest", then I guess everyone should go edit their porn pages to read more along the lines of:

                                                                    "These 18 year old blonde 38DD virgins do NOT crave your cock. The truth is, they want a 21 year old GQ heir and would probably be repulsed by the very idea of a loser like yourself if no money was involved. They don't get naked to serve the purpose of pleasing YOU, they are naked to make a living. If they were not getting paid, you would NOT be "turning them on" when you talk to them on cam, because they would not do it just for fun. They would NOT even look at you in the offline world unless you had more money than the Pope. Now, if you can still rub one out without fantasizing about these girls that "want your cum on their face", feel free to take out your credit card and join a site that is all about the truth and nothing about feeding into your imagination"

                                                                    If a child can't have a little fantasy world, then I guess adults shouldn't either right? What's next? Imaginary friends not allowed?
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                                                                      • basschick
                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                        • Jan 2001
                                                                        • 2540
                                                                        #68
                                                                        sherie, my family is loosely jewish and the kids believed in santa claus. a lot of jewish familes celebrate christmas - NOT as a religious holiday, but as a cultural one. many also celebrate hannukah, but as a more sacred holday.

                                                                        when i figured out my mom was the tooth fairy, she kept giving me my quarters in exchange for the teeth she'd find under the pillow. i'd also get a note: roses are red, violets are blue, thanks for the tooth, here's a quarter for you! :-) you know what? my feelings of happiness that something special happened did not go away when i discovered the tooth fairy was my mom - i find myself smiling when i remember pre or post mom tooth fairy notes.

                                                                        after all, if my mom was the tooth fairy all along, why shouldn't i continue to enjoy that childhood joy and slowly put the adult and child beliefs together instead of missing all the fun of being a kid the minute i start to have adult beliefs?
                                                                        Got Gay and For Women Traffic?

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                                                                          • jennym
                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                            • May 2003
                                                                            • 1622
                                                                            #69
                                                                            Jeeezzz! Were you people molested by Santa or something?

                                                                            Just because my grandma said "What do you want from Santa this year?" doesn't mean I *believed* at 30 that Santa was really coming to bring a gift.

                                                                            Y'all are some of the most anal fuckers I have ever come across if you think that lying about Santa and the Tooth Fairy is detimental to my childs well being.

                                                                            I guess when my daughter is in junior high, with acne all over her face and having a bad hair day I should just tell her she looks like shit if she ask's huh?

                                                                            Since we are all being so honest here:

                                                                            SIZE DOES MATTER!!!

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                                                                              • basschick
                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                • Jan 2001
                                                                                • 2540
                                                                                #70
                                                                                Furious_Female, that was great *LOL*

                                                                                without fantasy, how many sales would we make?

                                                                                "these mature women don't crave sex. most need money and have no job skills. many didn't enjoy the sex, and some were disgusted while having sex for this site."

                                                                                or imagine if the milf and other reality sites didn't put the fantasy text on the sites, but wrote the true story of each shoot!

                                                                                "Montana is a stripper who decided to pick up some extra money doing porn. Her tanning made her look older than she is, so we decided to use her on this mature site. She doesn't actually have any kids, and we didn't pick her up at a mall - we called her agent and he sent her over. She charged extra to do anal as she says she really doesn't like it."

                                                                                Originally posted by Furious_Female
                                                                                "These 18 year old blonde 38DD virgins do NOT crave your cock. The truth is, they want a 21 year old GQ heir and would probably be repulsed by the very idea of a loser like yourself if no money was involved. They don't get naked to serve the purpose of pleasing YOU, they are naked to make a living. If they were not getting paid, you would NOT be "turning them on" when you talk to them on cam, because they would not do it just for fun. They would NOT even look at you in the offline world unless you had more money than the Pope. Now, if you can still rub one out without fantasizing about these girls that "want your cum on their face", feel free to take out your credit card and join a site that is all about the truth and nothing about feeding into your imagination"

                                                                                If a child can't have a little fantasy world, then I guess adults shouldn't either right? What's next? Imaginary friends not allowed?
                                                                                Got Gay and For Women Traffic?

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                                                                                  • Libertine
                                                                                    sex dwarf
                                                                                    • May 2002
                                                                                    • 17860
                                                                                    #71
                                                                                    Originally posted by eroswebmaster


                                                                                    Okay but the point is you should not tell them that god does NOT exist...that's not your job to do that.

                                                                                    And as far as the earth is flat issue vs santa issue I see it as different in that one involves something we can see..that is physical..and one involves "beliefs."

                                                                                    Sure you can start arguing now about how some people MIGHT believe or their religions MIGHT teach the earth is flat....but there is no way we can cover every single issue...you're always going to be able to offend someone at any time.

                                                                                    But with Christmas being a national holiday...secular for some religious for others you tend to offend alot more people.

                                                                                    No I'm not debating a majority vs minority issue...but the simple fact is that the santa issue is something that comes up every year for a whole new crop of kids...you don't have millions of kids every year showing up talking about how they think the earth is flat...and just by virtue of the fact that this issue does come up every year for millions of kids the teacher should have known better not to address it in class.

                                                                                    IMO I still believe she's pushing her agenda.

                                                                                    No, you do not tell them God does not exist, because there are two relatively valid positions in that case. However, like the earth is not flat, santa does not exist. We *know* that. It's not a point of debate, he simply doesn't exist. There are billions of adults who believe (a) God exists. There are only a few adults who believe Santa exists, and most people refer to those adults as either crazy or retarded.

                                                                                    So, when it comes to God, saying "some people believe God exists, some people believe God does not exist" is telling the truth. When it comes to Santa, saying "he doesn't exist" is telling the truth. Ofcourse, it's a good idea to sugarcoat it, and the teacher in question made a mistake there. However, the basic concept of telling children the truth is a good one.

                                                                                    Aside from that, there are many teachers who tell children that santa *does* exist. Why is it considered normal if a teacher lies to kids, but does it make the news when a teacher tells kids the truth? In my opinion, that's just screwed up.

                                                                                    Oh, and ofcourse believing in santa does in fact hurt children. The last few kids in a class who believe in santa get bullied quite a bit for being gullible, so it's probably even a good idea if they all find out the truth together.
                                                                                    /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Furious_Female
                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                        • Oct 2002
                                                                                        • 8187
                                                                                        #72
                                                                                        Originally posted by basschick
                                                                                        "Montana is a stripper who decided to pick up some extra money doing porn. Her tanning made her look older than she is, so we decided to use her on this mature site. She doesn't actually have any kids, and we didn't pick her up at a mall - we called her agent and he sent her over. She charged extra to do anal as she says she really doesn't like it."
                                                                                        LMAO
                                                                                        Skype: j3nn.com
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                                                                                          • Libertine
                                                                                            sex dwarf
                                                                                            • May 2002
                                                                                            • 17860
                                                                                            #73
                                                                                            Originally posted by Furious_Female
                                                                                            Well if indulging a child's fantasies about Santa is wrong because it's "dishonest", then I guess everyone should go edit their porn pages to read more along the lines of:

                                                                                            "These 18 year old blonde 38DD virgins do NOT crave your cock. The truth is, they want a 21 year old GQ heir and would probably be repulsed by the very idea of a loser like yourself if no money was involved. They don't get naked to serve the purpose of pleasing YOU, they are naked to make a living. If they were not getting paid, you would NOT be "turning them on" when you talk to them on cam, because they would not do it just for fun. They would NOT even look at you in the offline world unless you had more money than the Pope. Now, if you can still rub one out without fantasizing about these girls that "want your cum on their face", feel free to take out your credit card and join a site that is all about the truth and nothing about feeding into your imagination"

                                                                                            If a child can't have a little fantasy world, then I guess adults shouldn't either right? What's next? Imaginary friends not allowed?
                                                                                            So you think it's the job of a *school* to lie to children? Or do you fail to see the difference between a sales pitch and an education?
                                                                                            If you really want to compare advertising to lying to children though: false advertising is illegal.

                                                                                            There is a big difference between indulging in a fantasy and lying about reality. If you tell a story about santa to children who know santa doesn't actually exist, that's a fantasy. If you tell them santa does exist, you are lying about reality. Now, as far as I know it's not the job of a teacher to lie to kids about reality.
                                                                                            A porn example: putting up "The hot sluts crave your cock deep inside of them!" would be a fantasy. Putting up "This site has hundreds of high quality videos" while the site actually has no videos at all would be lying about reality. Notice the difference?
                                                                                            /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                              • eroswebmaster
                                                                                                March 1st, 2003
                                                                                                • Jul 2001
                                                                                                • 20295
                                                                                                #74
                                                                                                Originally posted by punkworld


                                                                                                There is a big difference between indulging in a fantasy and lying about reality. If you tell a story about santa to children who know santa doesn't actually exist, that's a fantasy. If you tell them santa does exist, you are lying about reality.
                                                                                                No...you're still indulging in fantasy...come on man give it a break.

                                                                                                We're just talking about children here.

                                                                                                It is the responsibility of the teacher to educate children about history, math, reading etc...not about life...or matters of belief.

                                                                                                Now of course you'll probably try and open the debate about how some parents won't educate their children about certain aspects of life..blah..blah..blah.

                                                                                                We're not talking about sex education, we're not talking about drugs...we're talking about one night out of a whole year that kids fantasize about something magical happening...a night where alot of dreams and wishes will hopefully come true.

                                                                                                Telling kids to go home and ask their parents about it is not contributing to some sort of big lie...or santa claus cover up...it is just putting the responsibility back where it lies...with the parents.
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                                                                                                  • eroswebmaster
                                                                                                    March 1st, 2003
                                                                                                    • Jul 2001
                                                                                                    • 20295
                                                                                                    #75
                                                                                                    Seriously this whole "teaching the kids to lie" argument is weak.

                                                                                                    If there is one kid out there who grew up and now hates his parents for "lying about santa," or is now using that as some sort of justification to lie about cheating on his wife, or stealing from his company then you've found yourself a pathetic excuse for a human being. A person who won't accept responsibility regardless of what his/her parents did.
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                                                                                                      • Libertine
                                                                                                        sex dwarf
                                                                                                        • May 2002
                                                                                                        • 17860
                                                                                                        #76
                                                                                                        Originally posted by eroswebmaster


                                                                                                        No...you're still indulging in fantasy...come on man give it a break.

                                                                                                        We're just talking about children here.

                                                                                                        It is the responsibility of the teacher to educate children about history, math, reading etc...not about life...or matters of belief.

                                                                                                        Now of course you'll probably try and open the debate about how some parents won't educate their children about certain aspects of life..blah..blah..blah.

                                                                                                        We're not talking about sex education, we're not talking about drugs...we're talking about one night out of a whole year that kids fantasize about something magical happening...a night where alot of dreams and wishes will hopefully come true.

                                                                                                        Telling kids to go home and ask their parents about it is not contributing to some sort of big lie...or santa claus cover up...it is just putting the responsibility back where it lies...with the parents.
                                                                                                        First of all, it is not a fantasy. To the kids, it is reality. Either that, or they know santa doesn't exist, in which case telling them that doesn't hurt either.

                                                                                                        Secondly, referring to santa as a matter of belief is stretching it. While religion is a matter of belief, santa is a matter of false information. Like I said before, santa does *not* exist, it's not a matter of belief, but a matter of fact.

                                                                                                        And what exactly makes this lie better than other unnecessary lies? Do you really think it has a bad effect on children to know that their parents love them and therefore give them presents?


                                                                                                        Originally posted by eroswebmaster
                                                                                                        Seriously this whole "teaching the kids to lie" argument is weak.

                                                                                                        If there is one kid out there who grew up and now hates his parents for "lying about santa," or is now using that as some sort of justification to lie about cheating on his wife, or stealing from his company then you've found yourself a pathetic excuse for a human being. A person who won't accept responsibility regardless of what his/her parents did.
                                                                                                        Something that has a negative effect doesn't always have to be a very conscious memory. Most people don't even have a clue what the bad points of their personality are, let alone where those came from.

                                                                                                        But aside from that, there are quite a few other negative points. For example, the poor kid who is liked less by Santa than the rich kid... "Not only am I poor, Santa doesn't even like me ".
                                                                                                        Or what about the kid from a really bad home, who doesn't even get anything for christmas? Great idea to give that kid the idea that not only his parents don't like him, but Santa thinks he's a bad kid too.

                                                                                                        So what added value does santa have that justifies lying to children?
                                                                                                        /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                                                                          Comment

                                                                                                          • eroswebmaster
                                                                                                            March 1st, 2003
                                                                                                            • Jul 2001
                                                                                                            • 20295
                                                                                                            #77
                                                                                                            sorry dude but that's all just a bunch of whiny baby leftist bullshit...and I'm a "liberal."

                                                                                                            there's more important things in this world to be concerned about than whether or not a kid believes in santa claus or not.

                                                                                                            it all boils down to whether or not the teacher crossed any boundaries and she did...that's it.

                                                                                                            I feel sorry for people who can't let a kid just enjoy a brief moment in their lives..and that's all it is..those few years you're conscious of Santa...fuck man I wish I could go back to that world of "reality," it was a much better place than this world of "fantasy."
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                                                                                                              • Libertine
                                                                                                                sex dwarf
                                                                                                                • May 2002
                                                                                                                • 17860
                                                                                                                #78
                                                                                                                Originally posted by eroswebmaster

                                                                                                                there's more important things in this world to be concerned about than whether or not a kid believes in santa claus or not.
                                                                                                                Well, I'm not the one complaining about a teacher telling children the truth about santa.
                                                                                                                /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                                                  • eroswebmaster
                                                                                                                    March 1st, 2003
                                                                                                                    • Jul 2001
                                                                                                                    • 20295
                                                                                                                    #79
                                                                                                                    Originally posted by punkworld


                                                                                                                    Well, I'm not the one complaining about a teacher telling children the truth about santa.
                                                                                                                    Dude I'm referring to the teachers and the whiny leftists who are overly concerned about the life impacting lie of Santa Claus and how this massive cover up is truly affecting our children.

                                                                                                                    Oh my let's not forget about the poor little children in the ghettos of Baltimore or the Hills of West Virginia who will think Santa hates them.

                                                                                                                    but we must educate them...they must know about santa claus...we can't let them go through 3-5 years of their lives enjoying a fantasy...because it's really a reality...and once again let's not forget about the poor ghetto children that Santa hates.

                                                                                                                    Fuck it man...you had your christmas' let the kids have theirs...and if you didn't have any good ones..then fuck that too...let the kids attempt to have a good one...leave them and their fantasies alone.
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                                                                                                                      • Gemini
                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                        • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                        • 7183
                                                                                                                        #80
                                                                                                                        It sounds like someone had a very sad childhood and doesn't have a clue. Thats too bad.
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                                                                                                                          • Libertine
                                                                                                                            sex dwarf
                                                                                                                            • May 2002
                                                                                                                            • 17860
                                                                                                                            #81
                                                                                                                            Originally posted by eroswebmaster


                                                                                                                            Dude I'm referring to the teachers and the whiny leftists who are overly concerned about the life impacting lie of Santa Claus and how this massive cover up is truly affecting our children.

                                                                                                                            Oh my let's not forget about the poor little children in the ghettos of Baltimore or the Hills of West Virginia who will think Santa hates them.

                                                                                                                            but we must educate them...they must know about santa claus...we can't let them go through 3-5 years of their lives enjoying a fantasy...because it's really a reality...and once again let's not forget about the poor ghetto children that Santa hates.

                                                                                                                            Fuck it man...you had your christmas' let the kids have theirs...and if you didn't have any good ones..then fuck that too...let the kids attempt to have a good one...leave them and their fantasies alone.
                                                                                                                            First you're saying it's not important, then you're saying there is nothing wrong with lying about it. If it's not important, why can't you tell children the truth?

                                                                                                                            These are not the fantasies of the kids. The kids just got incorrect information, it's the parents at work here. You try to make it seem like kids choose for this - they don't. Their parents do.

                                                                                                                            As for my christmas experiences in the past, they were great. But guess what? I knew santa wasn't real, and still I got excited about fun time with the family, presents, nice meals etc.
                                                                                                                            You're acting like lying about santa is the only thing that makes christmas good. That's nonsense. Almost any kid will enjoy christmas just as much without believing in santa... presents, staying up late, a big meal etc. are exciting for kids, santa or no santa.
                                                                                                                            /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                              • mryellow
                                                                                                                                Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                • May 2001
                                                                                                                                • 934
                                                                                                                                #82
                                                                                                                                WTF!!!?!?!?!? SANTA'S NOT REAL????


                                                                                                                                eh? He's a Coke marketing campaign gone wild?

                                                                                                                                I want my easter eggs! Jesus died for my easter eggs!

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                                                                                                                                  • cluck
                                                                                                                                    Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                    • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                                    • 5248
                                                                                                                                    #83
                                                                                                                                    If you don't have enough common sense by 1st grade to know santa is fake then you deserve to be let down. By the time I was in kindergarten I was already amazed that the other idiots in my class actually believed that garbage.

                                                                                                                                    We tell the kids magic isn't real but expect them to believe things like santa and the easter bunny. Plz, give them some credit.
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                                                                                                                                      • Furious_Female
                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                        • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                        • 8187
                                                                                                                                        #84
                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Gemini
                                                                                                                                        It sounds like someone had a very sad childhood and doesn't have a clue. Thats too bad.
                                                                                                                                        I agree.

                                                                                                                                        On another note, I'm so sick of all this politically correct bullshit. Taking religion, fantasies, this and that out of people's lives, telling them they are wrong and you are right, is fuckin ridiculous. It's not making the world a better place, it's planting seeds of hate and bitterness in people. Who is to say what is right and what's wrong? Why disect every little fuckin thing in the world? Why? Why do people have so much time to go around finding problems and conspiracies in every little thing? It's a sickness.

                                                                                                                                        People have the right to live their life and raise their families the way they see fit and no one should be able to set a standard, that does nothing but censor people's minds and feelings. Some people are so far left and so bitter towards everyone and everything, it amazes me that they are even humans. Some people can set their emotions aside so easily and complain about other's traditions being so offensive to them, yet hypocritically want everyone to bow down to THEIR belief system. Fuck all the hate spreading, war causing, politically correct assholes who have nothing better to do but rain on, otherwise HAPPY people's parade.
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                                                                                                                                          • jennym
                                                                                                                                            Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                            • May 2003
                                                                                                                                            • 1622
                                                                                                                                            #85
                                                                                                                                            punkworld - do you have kids??

                                                                                                                                              Comment

                                                                                                                                              • eroswebmaster
                                                                                                                                                March 1st, 2003
                                                                                                                                                • Jul 2001
                                                                                                                                                • 20295
                                                                                                                                                #86
                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by punkworld


                                                                                                                                                First you're saying it's not important, then you're saying there is nothing wrong with lying about it. If it's not important, why can't you tell children the truth?

                                                                                                                                                These are not the fantasies of the kids. The kids just got incorrect information, it's the parents at work here. You try to make it seem like kids choose for this - they don't. Their parents do.

                                                                                                                                                As for my christmas experiences in the past, they were great. But guess what? I knew santa wasn't real, and still I got excited about fun time with the family, presents, nice meals etc.
                                                                                                                                                You're acting like lying about santa is the only thing that makes christmas good. That's nonsense. Almost any kid will enjoy christmas just as much without believing in santa... presents, staying up late, a big meal etc. are exciting for kids, santa or no santa.

                                                                                                                                                LOL this is just lame.

                                                                                                                                                What I am saying is that it's not important for YOU...or that TEACHER to concern herself with whether or not a child believes in Santa Claus...understand now?

                                                                                                                                                No Santa is not the ONLY important thing about Christmas...I thought you pretty much understood that in my initial posting about how I explained it to my niece but it's becoming quite apparent you don't understand much at all.

                                                                                                                                                However for a child Santa COULD be *notice I said COULD* be a very important part of Christmas.

                                                                                                                                                And for most kids it is. It doesn't make them fucked up..it doesn't mean they don't understand the true value of Christmas...hell all I ever thought about was Santa and what he would bring me...and what did I learn from that...how much fun it is to create that same type of atmosphere with MY GIVING.

                                                                                                                                                Who cares what your experiences are...my post was to imply that either #1 you're being hypocritical if you enjoyed X amount of years believing in Santa Claus..or your #2 pushing off your bad experiences into this debate.

                                                                                                                                                Once again and with feeling...It is not your responsibility or a teacher's responsibility to cross into someone elses child's beliefs whether they be reality, or fantasy...except for when it comes to real matters of education.

                                                                                                                                                This is not to say if some kid walks around thinking Freddy Krueger is real to not correct them...I've already established that Christmas and the Santa folklore, myth...fantasy what the fuck ever is something that is recognized by millions of people as an OKAY DEPARTURE FROM REALITY because it only lasts for such a short period of time...and dude if you have kids *I don't know your situation* you'll realize how really fucking short that is.

                                                                                                                                                It's not a fucking lie...get over it...it's just good fun for both the kids and the parents..and good fun that alot of children will grow up and duplicate for their children...why? because honestly it's fun as hell...I've been doing it for many years now with my nieces and I miss the days of their wide eyed innocence and amazement on Christmas Morning.
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                                                                                                                                                  • Libertine
                                                                                                                                                    sex dwarf
                                                                                                                                                    • May 2002
                                                                                                                                                    • 17860
                                                                                                                                                    #87
                                                                                                                                                    Originally posted by Furious_Female

                                                                                                                                                    On another note, I'm so sick of all this politically correct bullshit. Taking religion, fantasies, this and that out of people's lives, telling them they are wrong and you are right, is fuckin ridiculous. It's not making the world a better place, it's planting seeds of hate and bitterness in people. Who is to say what is right and what's wrong? Why disect every little fuckin thing in the world? Why? Why do people have so much time to go around finding problems and conspiracies in every little thing? It's a sickness.

                                                                                                                                                    People have the right to live their life and raise their families the way they see fit and no one should be able to set a standard, that does nothing but censor people's minds and feelings. Some people are so far left and so bitter towards everyone and everything, it amazes me that they are even humans. Some people can set their emotions aside so easily and complain about other's traditions being so offensive to them, yet hypocritically want everyone to bow down to THEIR belief system. Fuck all the hate spreading, war causing, politically correct assholes who have nothing better to do but rain on, otherwise HAPPY people's parade.
                                                                                                                                                    What exactly is politically correct about not lying to kids?
                                                                                                                                                    And, is telling people they're wrong when they ARE wrong, well, wrong? ('cos people who believe in santa are wrong, really)
                                                                                                                                                    And censoring?? Sooo... how exactly is telling children the truth censoring? And why is wanting to shut people who tell children the truth up not censoring?
                                                                                                                                                    And you're claiming that "politically correct" people are starting wars?! Well, you could call Bush politically correct, I guess...



                                                                                                                                                    For god's sake, you people are pissed off about a teacher who told children the truth about something. Think about that for a moment.


                                                                                                                                                    Ah, fuck it. I'm going to bed. No sense in trying to argue with people who think the spirit of christmas is embodied by a fat guy in a red coat.
                                                                                                                                                    /(bb|[^b]{2})/

                                                                                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                                                                                      • Furious_Female
                                                                                                                                                        Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                        • Oct 2002
                                                                                                                                                        • 8187
                                                                                                                                                        #88
                                                                                                                                                        Originally posted by punkworld


                                                                                                                                                        What exactly is politically correct about not lying to kids?
                                                                                                                                                        And, is telling people they're wrong when they ARE wrong, well, wrong? ('cos people who believe in santa are wrong, really)
                                                                                                                                                        And censoring?? Sooo... how exactly is telling children the truth censoring? And why is wanting to shut people who tell children the truth up not censoring?
                                                                                                                                                        And you're claiming that "politically correct" people are starting wars?! Well, you could call Bush politically correct, I guess...



                                                                                                                                                        For god's sake, you people are pissed off about a teacher who told children the truth about something. Think about that for a moment.


                                                                                                                                                        Ah, fuck it. I'm going to bed. No sense in trying to argue with people who think the spirit of christmas is embodied by a fat guy in a red coat.
                                                                                                                                                        ::shakes head::
                                                                                                                                                        That's not the point. The point is, it's a widely used tradition because it's FUN and there's lessons to be learned from it, but mainly it's just good hearted fun for kids AND adults. But most importantly, it's something for parents/guardians/relatives whatever, to either play along with or not. All a teacher has to say is "Talk with your family about Santa". They don't have to play along OR deny it... they can remain neutral without overstepping their boundaries. They get paid to educate kids, not to set the standards for the imagination or traditions.

                                                                                                                                                        We used to have Christmas parties and plays and concerts in school. The ones that didn't share the beliefs, simply didn't participate and NO ONE ridiculed them for that. Why should others be ridiculed for believing? When you start censoring this and that, then you start having a bunch of people walking on egg shells, afraid to offend someone or be ashamed for what they ENJOY. It's not right.

                                                                                                                                                        There's a huge difference between a lie and a lie of omission. Staying neutral does not hurt anything. I had a few Jehovah's Witness teachers in school and they didn't go around disrespecting anyone's beliefs or bursting their bubble, they simply said nothing.

                                                                                                                                                        Sometimes it's better to not say anything than to open a can of worms. As a kid, I would have never thought in a million years, I would be debating Santa Claus and his role in children's lives. Relax... it will be ok. Live and let live.
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                                                                                                                                                          • Ironhorse
                                                                                                                                                            Pixel Pusher
                                                                                                                                                            • Nov 2002
                                                                                                                                                            • 7094
                                                                                                                                                            #89
                                                                                                                                                            Originally posted by Furious_Female
                                                                                                                                                            Well if indulging a child's fantasies about Santa is wrong because it's "dishonest", then I guess everyone should go edit their porn pages to read more along the lines of:

                                                                                                                                                            "These 18 year old blonde 38DD virgins do NOT crave your cock. The truth is, they want a 21 year old GQ heir and would probably be repulsed by the very idea of a loser like yourself if no money was involved. They don't get naked to serve the purpose of pleasing YOU, they are naked to make a living. If they were not getting paid, you would NOT be "turning them on" when you talk to them on cam, because they would not do it just for fun. They would NOT even look at you in the offline world unless you had more money than the Pope. Now, if you can still rub one out without fantasizing about these girls that "want your cum on their face", feel free to take out your credit card and join a site that is all about the truth and nothing about feeding into your imagination"

                                                                                                                                                            If a child can't have a little fantasy world, then I guess adults shouldn't either right? What's next? Imaginary friends not allowed?
                                                                                                                                                            Are you suggesting we should all treat our kids like we treat our porn surfers?
                                                                                                                                                            [email protected]

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                                                                                                                                                              • Ironhorse
                                                                                                                                                                Pixel Pusher
                                                                                                                                                                • Nov 2002
                                                                                                                                                                • 7094
                                                                                                                                                                #90
                                                                                                                                                                Originally posted by jennym


                                                                                                                                                                Since we are all being so honest here:

                                                                                                                                                                SIZE DOES MATTER!!!
                                                                                                                                                                I knew it all aLONG
                                                                                                                                                                [email protected]

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