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Drake · 07-05-2004, 01:10 PM

Strictly speaking rap isn't music and most of it is terrible just like any other form of art. But at the same time, whatever you want to call it, music or not music (if not music it's clearly a closely related artform close enough to put it in the same category as music which is why it's sold in music stores and rated in music magazines and books), much of it is better than so called real music and the 'real' musicians out there today.

Being a musician (able to play an instrument) doesn't mean you can make great music. There are many phenomenal guitar players that can run scales and play Bach on the guitar but cannot create their own original music that sounds good. Then there are those (hendrix, page) who are great musicians and who actually create good music with that skill.

I think the only reason why rap/hiphop became popular is because 1) people got bored of 'real' music, hearing the same chords and styles of music played in the same way since the 50's (remember how the 80's pop-metal scene became lame when every hair band came out with a song that sounded exactly like the one before it) and 2) people enjoy listening to a stripped-down raw version of 'real' music. Hip-hop seems to be on the opposite spectrum of music as say, thrash metal. People seem to be attracted to extreme musical forms, maybe because they think it gives them a sense of an edge, because it's material you won't hear played often on mainstream radio.

I can't listen to most rap or metal, but I do listen to quite a handful of artists and some songs that stand out and for different reasons (I admit that the actual lyrical content sometimes is questionable but I can't help but enjoy it). The musical background is a big part. For hip-hop it's also the wit that the rapper injects into the song with his lyrics, with the metal band it's the way the 'singer' sings (or screams) over the guitars. In both cases good singing doesn't even appear to be necessary element to make a great song. If true singing was necessary Mick Jagger would be out of a job and so would Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin. Both can't 'sing' but the way they 'sing' actually helps to make great sounding songs.

Our notions of what's music or not changes as our listening habits change. Many who dismissed hiphop in the early 80's are not it's biggest fans. There were times when Jazz, Rock, Punk and Metal were all not considered music and some can still make a case for it. It has a lot to do with the generation you were raised in. Most people over 40 years old don't seem to understand what the appeal of hiphop is when I think most of the appeal is simply it's aggressiveness (male oriented), it's anti-social tone and fantasy (showing lavish lifestyles of money, fame, women, and drugs), and it's deep rhythm (a way, annoyingly, to make everybody else within a mile from you know that you're driving your nice car down the street).

So to say hiphop isn't music really isn't the negative statement it's intended to be. Although I agree it's not really music...I couldn't see it being taught in music classrooms (there are no crecendos, solos, instruments, bridges etc. which you will find in traditional music pieces) because it would be one boring class for the most part studying each bar of a song because it would be identical to every other bar in the song - this is not for all rap but for most).

At the same time, rockers have been doing their own sampling/lifting off artists for years and 'instruments' like turntables have become another additional to many rock bands songs as well as have direct samples (both of these features taken from hip-hop) and deeper bass and drums.

I enjoy most forms of music (and some forms of non-music I guess you would call it?). I haven't heard a polka song to date that I like yet but I will keep my ears open.

Like Punk and Metal before it, most rap sucks, but there is genius in a lot of it that sounds great!

Oh, but now that rap is THE mainstream it does suck because we get bombarded with it every day everywhere. Any type of music heard this way is just too much overload and the media pumps out whatever it thinks it can sell good or bad. I think this adds to the disdain for rap because we hear so much of the crap rather than the best works.

07-05-2004, 01:10 PM
Drake Hello world! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 12,508	Strictly speaking rap isn't music and most of it is terrible just like any other form of art. But at the same time, whatever you want to call it, music or not music (if not music it's clearly a closely related artform close enough to put it in the same category as music which is why it's sold in music stores and rated in music magazines and books), much of it is better than so called real music and the 'real' musicians out there today. Being a musician (able to play an instrument) doesn't mean you can make great music. There are many phenomenal guitar players that can run scales and play Bach on the guitar but cannot create their own original music that sounds good. Then there are those (hendrix, page) who are great musicians and who actually create good music with that skill. I think the only reason why rap/hiphop became popular is because 1) people got bored of 'real' music, hearing the same chords and styles of music played in the same way since the 50's (remember how the 80's pop-metal scene became lame when every hair band came out with a song that sounded exactly like the one before it) and 2) people enjoy listening to a stripped-down raw version of 'real' music. Hip-hop seems to be on the opposite spectrum of music as say, thrash metal. People seem to be attracted to extreme musical forms, maybe because they think it gives them a sense of an edge, because it's material you won't hear played often on mainstream radio. I can't listen to most rap or metal, but I do listen to quite a handful of artists and some songs that stand out and for different reasons (I admit that the actual lyrical content sometimes is questionable but I can't help but enjoy it). The musical background is a big part. For hip-hop it's also the wit that the rapper injects into the song with his lyrics, with the metal band it's the way the 'singer' sings (or screams) over the guitars. In both cases good singing doesn't even appear to be necessary element to make a great song. If true singing was necessary Mick Jagger would be out of a job and so would Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin. Both can't 'sing' but the way they 'sing' actually helps to make great sounding songs. Our notions of what's music or not changes as our listening habits change. Many who dismissed hiphop in the early 80's are not it's biggest fans. There were times when Jazz, Rock, Punk and Metal were all not considered music and some can still make a case for it. It has a lot to do with the generation you were raised in. Most people over 40 years old don't seem to understand what the appeal of hiphop is when I think most of the appeal is simply it's aggressiveness (male oriented), it's anti-social tone and fantasy (showing lavish lifestyles of money, fame, women, and drugs), and it's deep rhythm (a way, annoyingly, to make everybody else within a mile from you know that you're driving your nice car down the street). So to say hiphop isn't music really isn't the negative statement it's intended to be. Although I agree it's not really music...I couldn't see it being taught in music classrooms (there are no crecendos, solos, instruments, bridges etc. which you will find in traditional music pieces) because it would be one boring class for the most part studying each bar of a song because it would be identical to every other bar in the song - this is not for all rap but for most). At the same time, rockers have been doing their own sampling/lifting off artists for years and 'instruments' like turntables have become another additional to many rock bands songs as well as have direct samples (both of these features taken from hip-hop) and deeper bass and drums. I enjoy most forms of music (and some forms of non-music I guess you would call it?). I haven't heard a polka song to date that I like yet but I will keep my ears open. Like Punk and Metal before it, most rap sucks, but there is genius in a lot of it that sounds great! Oh, but now that rap is THE mainstream it does suck because we get bombarded with it every day everywhere. Any type of music heard this way is just too much overload and the media pumps out whatever it thinks it can sell good or bad. I think this adds to the disdain for rap because we hear so much of the crap rather than the best works. Last edited by Drake; 07-05-2004 at 01:13 PM..