Hey Veterans - patriot petition - what's your opinion of this case ? - GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum

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Honeyslut

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#1

Hey Veterans - patriot petition - what's your opinion of this case ?

11-07-2003, 11:51 AM

http://patriotpetitions.us/petition.asp?id=8

This url is for those of you that are following the Col West story , his court martial trial and are against what is happening to him.

Here's a story about what happened !
http://washingtontimes.com/national/...3114-2964r.htm

I am curious as to what the Veteran's feel about this case.

Carry on !

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11-07-2003, 12:04 PM

I haven't followed the whole case yet I know I was an infantry solider and we were always taught (unofficially of course) to let a foreign allie run the interrogation if you believe it needs to get nasty. So in this case have some Iraqi police officers come and do what needs to be done or at least have them in the room there. They have different rules/procedures than US soldiers and if it ever got out you just say the investigation was handled by Iraqi police.

Like I said, don't know all the circumstances here yet that was the first thing that came to my mind after I read one article.

Last edited by xanx; 11-07-2003, 12:07 PM.
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#3

11-07-2003, 12:09 PM

How many vets are there in GFY???

I'm just a newbie.
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#4

11-07-2003, 12:15 PM

Im not a veteran, but I do think its bullshit how they are treating him. 20 loyal years of service and they fuck him in the ass and use him as a scapegoat...it seems pretty fucked up to me
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11-07-2003, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by tranza
How many vets are there in GFY???

nine.

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11-07-2003, 12:20 PM

I'd say the shitbag being interrogated was damn lucky he didn't start losing fingers and toes before talking. Shooting a round above his head is nothing. The colonel is getting the big shaft on this one...
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#7

11-07-2003, 12:36 PM

The Col is a good soldier and I give him a thumbs up.

It is an Article 32 investigation which is equivalent to a Grand Jury investigation in the civilian world.

I suspect that there will not be a court martial...or if there is...it will be with some lesser charge...that will not cost him his pension. I ultimately suspect an article 15...and with that he will not lose his pension. Even if worse comes to worse their are several reviews that will be undertaken any one of which can reverse or revise the outcome. The last resort is...the President can reverse the outcome as President Nixon did with Lt. Calley of the My Lia event during Vietnam.

It would be an outrageous travesty for this career soldier to lose his pension at this point.

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#8

11-07-2003, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Wildcard

nine.

Ah, ok.... I thought it was closer to 13 or 14....

I'm just a newbie.
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#9

11-07-2003, 12:56 PM

sounds like he was doing what he had too to protect his men in a very dangerous place. I hope they let him retire fully and let this pass. Like someone else posted the informant is lucky it was only a shot over his head.

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Honeyslut

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#10

11-07-2003, 08:56 PM

Nice feedback !

I was curious as to what theking would say.

I feel for his family,also. I heard that they were being harassed on the phone , had to get an unlisted number and their children were harassed at school.

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#11

11-07-2003, 09:00 PM

I think that dude stepped over the line and deserves to have to face charges for it. However with all that being said I think what needed to be done was an immediate discharge and let him have his pension but he deserves some sort of punishment because no matter what he did something that's wrong. Sure it wasn't that bad but it's the principle of what is to come if punishment is not given out. Sometimes although it sucks but someone has to be the example to keep the others from doing it.

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Honeyslut

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#12

11-07-2003, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by dantheman
Like someone else posted the informant is lucky it was only a shot over his head.

Semper Fi

In some countries, they would just shoot the guy like they do to Amercians when caught overseas.

In my opinion, having a court martial trial is just fucking giving into the terrorist .

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#13

11-07-2003, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by Digipimp
I think that dude stepped over the line and deserves to have to face charges for it. However with all that being said I think what needed to be done was an immediate discharge and let him have his pension but he deserves some sort of punishment because no matter what he did something that's wrong. Sure it wasn't that bad but it's the principle of what is to come if punishment is not given out. Sometimes although it sucks but someone has to be the example to keep the others from doing it.

I bet Daniel Pearl's family would disagree with that.

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#14

11-07-2003, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by Honeyslut

I bet Daniel Pearl's family would disagree with that.

Fuck his family a jewish journalist should have known better than to be where he was and trying to work and cover up that was jewish. This soldier is a good man and did noble service for his country, but he fucked up, he stepped over the line of what's acceptable, if we don't enforce the line even on the cleanest best guys then we lose the line. He's being made an example of, but in the end he's not going to face harsh punishment, it's just being used to show others don't cross that line even though you do so for good reason.

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#15

11-07-2003, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Digipimp

Fuck his family a jewish journalist should have known better than to be where he was and trying to work and cover up that was jewish. This soldier is a good man and did noble service for his country, but he fucked up, he stepped over the line of what's acceptable, if we don't enforce the line even on the cleanest best guys then we lose the line. He's being made an example of, but in the end he's not going to face harsh punishment, it's just being used to show others don't cross that line even though you do so for good reason.

So it's acceptable for the jewish journalist to be shot but not acceptable for our Col to pretend to shot someone to save his soldiers lives.

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#16

11-07-2003, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by Honeyslut

So it's acceptable for the jewish journalist to be shot but not acceptable for our Col to pretend to shot someone to save his soldiers lives.

Never said it's acceptable but we hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct and rightfully so even though it can sometimes hamper our efforts.

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Mr.Fiction

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#17

11-07-2003, 09:33 PM

Would you complain when people on the other side commit war crimes against our troops?

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#18

11-07-2003, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
Would you complain when people on the other side commit war crimes against our troops?

I expect others to even if it's not right, just because they don't hold themselves to our standard. But I'm all in favor of covert ops in undeclared wars moving around and tearing shit up. But uniformed soldiers or ours in declared wars have to uphold the standard.

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11-07-2003, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by Digipimp

I expect others to even if it's not right, just because they don't hold themselves to our standard. But I'm all in favor of covert ops in undeclared wars moving around and tearing shit up. But uniformed soldiers or ours in declared wars have to uphold the standard.

Here is what I find ironic about these discussions.

Many of the same people who think that we should torture and kill foreign civilians if it will help America, think it's wrong for the other side to fly airplanes into buildings.

Think it through.

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#20

11-07-2003, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
Would you complain when people on the other side commit war crimes against our troops?

Of course...but this is basically a case of no harm no foul and certainly should not cost the Col his pension for his twenty years of service...and I do not think that it will. It would be punishment enough that his career was ended when his action came to light...of course he may have intended to serve for only 20.

Last edited by theking; 11-07-2003, 09:53 PM.

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#21

11-07-2003, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

Here is what I find ironic about these discussions.

Many of the same people who think that we should torture and kill foreign civilians if it will help America, think it's wrong for the other side to fly airplanes into buildings.

Think it through.

That's typical of so many in the US though, they someone feel their lives are more valueable and sacred. It's no real surprise to me at all.

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#22

11-07-2003, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by Digipimp

That's typical of so many in the US though, they someone feel their lives are more valueable and sacred. It's no real surprise to me at all.

I assume that you have family...mother...father...brother...sister...wife ...children...or someone that is close to you. Question...do you consider them to have more value to you than...let us say the families that live on the next block that you do not even know?

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#23

11-07-2003, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by theking

I assume that you have family...mother...father...brother...sister...wife ...children...or someone that is close to you. Question...do you consider them to have more value to you than...let us say the families that live on the next block that you do not even know?

If you truly value the life of your family, do you think it is wise to promote international law and order or international anarchy?

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#24

11-07-2003, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

If you truly value the life of your family, do you think it is wise to promote international law and order or international anarchy?

Does not international law exist? Did international law prevent 9/11? The United States is a country of laws...in my opinion to many laws. Does the law prevent crime...which includes rape...murder...serial killers...etc? Does law in any country on the earth prevent these types of crime?

If you live on one block and the family next door to you has been killed and without any doubt by one of 12 families from the next block...did the law prevent their death? Now you learn without any doubt that one of those 12 families is plotting the death of your family...but the law says sorry there is nothing we can do because we do not know which family it is. What will would you do to protect your family?

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#25

11-07-2003, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by theking

Does not international law exist? Did international law prevent 9/11? The United States is a country of laws...in my opinion to many laws. Does the law prevent crime...which includes rape...murder...serial killers...etc? Does law in any country on the earth prevent these types of crime?

If you live on one block and the family next door to you has been killed and without any doubt by one of 12 families from the next block...did the law prevent their death? Now you learn without any doubt that one of those 12 families is plotting the death of your family...but the law says sorry there is nothing we can do because we do not know which family it is. What will would you do to protect your family?

Do you believe in law and order or not?

Your anecdotal stories mean nothing.

Modern society, whether it's local, national, or international, relies on order. If you don't believe in order, then you don't really believe in America, do you?

Why do you hate America?

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#26

11-07-2003, 10:31 PM

I think I care about the lives of individuals equally around the world because I do care about my loved ones so much. You're just not seeing it from the right perspective. If you value the lives of your loved ones so much then you know that every person on this earth is a loved one and relative of someone and if we all took that attitude it would be a much better place. Why do I care about society or people I don't know and their lives, because of my loved ones that's why.

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#27

11-07-2003, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

Do you believe in law and order or not?

Your anecdotal stories mean nothing.

Modern society, whether it's local, national, or international, relies on order. If you don't believe in order, then you don't really believe in America, do you?

Why do you hate America?

You did not answer my question...but that is OK because it was a rhetorical question anyhow...as we already have international law and international law did not prevent 9/11. I will answer your question...of course I believe in law and order.

When the law does not work to protect me or my family...and when order breaks down...then I personally will make my own law and my own order to protect myself and my family and to answer my own question of you that you also did not answer...I personally would take out all of the 12 families on the other block.

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#28

11-07-2003, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by Digipimp
I think I care about the lives of individuals equally around the world because I do care about my loved ones so much. You're just not seeing it from the right perspective. If you value the lives of your loved ones so much then you know that every person on this earth is a loved one and relative of someone and if we all took that attitude it would be a much better place. Why do I care about society or people I don't know and their lives, because of my loved ones that's why.

Thus in the scenario that I have proposed...you and your family are now dead...because you would not act to protect them. If you were Catholic...who knows you might be deemed a Saint. I prefer me and my family be alive than being a Saint..I just am not a Saintly type of person.

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#29

11-07-2003, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by theking

When the law does not work to protect me or my family...and when order breaks down...then I personally will make my own law and my own order to protect myself and my family and to answer my own question of you that you also did not answer...I personally would take out all of the 12 families on the other block.

That's great, but be aware that your logic is what lead to the attacks on the World Trade Center.

Do you put yourself above the people who attacked the United States, even though you share some of their views?

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#30

11-07-2003, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by theking

Thus in the scenario that I have proposed...you and your family are now dead...because you would not act to protect them. If you were Catholic...who knows you might be deemed a Saint. I prefer me and my family be alive than being a Saint..I just am not a Saintly type of person.

You've got it all fucked up with your small perspective. So let me break it down for you.

No one in their right mind questions what the soldier did, in the same position we would do the same thing. With that being said the law has to be upheld. In your scenario it is right to do what you have to do to protect your family, just as it would be right for the law to prosecute you if you break the law while doing it. Luckily we have a jury system in which an appropriate sentence can be handed down taking into account your situation and desperation as well as intentions. But none the less the law has to prosecute you to uphold the law and standards set forth even though most will agree with what was done.

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#31

11-07-2003, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by Digipimp

You've got it all fucked up with your small perspective. So let me break it down for you.

No one in their right mind questions what the soldier did, in the same position we would do the same thing. With that being said the law has to be upheld. In your scenario it is right to do what you have to do to protect your family, just as it would be right for the law to prosecute you if you break the law while doing it. Luckily we have a jury system in which an appropriate sentence can be handed down taking into account your situation and desperation as well as intentions. But none the less the law has to prosecute you to uphold the law and standards set forth even though most will agree with what was done.

Yes...I agree...the Col did what he thought was necessary to protect his "family"...the troops under his command...and unless I am mistaken it was the Col himself that reported his own action...and was willing to face what ever the consequences. There should be...and of course there are...consequences for any action...or even re-action...that one takes because there is law.

The fact is that law does not necessarily protect you or your family so then it is time for you to protect yourself and your family and pay whatever consequences that ensues. This is a real world and ideology has its place...but so does "survival of the fittest".

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#32

11-07-2003, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

That's great, but be aware that your logic is what lead to the attacks on the World Trade Center.

Do you put yourself above the people who attacked the United States, even though you share some of their views?

"Above" or "below" is immaterial and without meaning. As I have stated way more than once...evolution is still taking place..."survival of the fittest".

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#33

11-07-2003, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by theking

"Above" or "below" is immaterial and without meaning. As I have stated way more than once...evolution is still taking place..."survival of the fittest".

Evolution fucked up when you only got injured from being ran over so many times during your 'combat' duty, Sgt. Speedbump heh heh. You would think that natural selection would result in the demise of a soldier too dumb or slow to get out of the way of a moving jeep.

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#34

11-07-2003, 11:26 PM

nice one.

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

Do you believe in law and order or not?

Your anecdotal stories mean nothing.

Modern society, whether it's local, national, or international, relies on order. If you don't believe in order, then you don't really believe in America, do you?

Why do you hate America?

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#35

11-07-2003, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by dig420

Evolution fucked up when you only got injured from being ran over so many times during your 'combat' duty, Sgt. Speedbump heh heh. You would think that natural selection would result in the demise of a soldier too dumb or slow to get out of the way of a moving jeep.

Honeyslut, Cheshire is prettier than you are. Just wanted you to know that.

Ahh...Danny boy...you may be the "missing link"...as you have not quite evolved to the level of a homosapien.

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#36

11-07-2003, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by dig420

Evolution fucked up when you only got injured from being ran over so many times during your 'combat' duty, Sgt. Speedbump heh heh. You would think that natural selection would result in the demise of a soldier too dumb or slow to get out of the way of a moving jeep.

Honeyslut, Cheshire is prettier than you are. Just wanted you to know that.

Honeyslut is...I am satisfied...by far prettier than any thing that a "missing link" has ever had...or will have. BTW Danny boy.

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#37

11-07-2003, 11:55 PM

theKing:

Does not international law exist? Did international law prevent 9/11? The United States is a country of laws...in my opinion to many laws. Does the law prevent crime...which includes rape...murder...serial killers...etc? Does law in any country on the earth prevent these types of crime?

I was tempted to answer this ... but hell... I can't be bothered!

One comment tho... laws exist as standards to abide by or pay the price. It is ironic these questions are being asked by a guy who is clearly of the mindset, - "my country good or bad" and yet it is his country who cannot even respect international laws or numerous other treaties. Frankly... nada credibility!

The price will be paid - pity it will kill off many others who ain't even involved.

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#38

11-08-2003, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by Webby
theKing:

I was tempted to answer this ... but hell... I can't be bothered!

One comment tho... laws exist as standards to abide by or pay the price. It is ironic these questions are being asked by a guy who is clearly of the mindset, - "my country good or bad" and yet it is his country who cannot even respect international laws or numerous other treaties. Frankly... nada credibility!

The price will be paid - pity it will kill off many others who ain't even involved.

Good and bad is relative thing. If one perceives the law/treaty is not good for ones well being than that law/treaty should not be respected...and if there are consequences...and there usually are...either good or bad...then so be it.

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#39

11-08-2003, 12:15 AM

Good and bad is relative thing.

Everything is relative and I'm off!

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#40

11-08-2003, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by Webby

Everything is relative and I'm off!

As am I.

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#41

11-08-2003, 12:19 AM

back in nam sarge made us stick the front side of shoes up our butts and do handstands while he balanced on his head with no hands and wore the shoes while doing the macarana
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