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theking

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#1

What Google shake up

11-04-2003, 06:13 AM

I came across this just now.

"We have pulled our links to inspect them closely because of the new Google shake-up. Links will be down until furher notice."

What is this referring to?

When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

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theking

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#2

11-04-2003, 07:19 AM

Anyone?

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#3

11-04-2003, 07:24 AM

??? Where did you see that?

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#4

11-04-2003, 07:25 AM

within 45 days they claim most of the google spammers not just adult will be gone

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#5

11-04-2003, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by Wizzo
??? Where did you see that?

On a site that I was reviewing...I do not remember which one...as I reviewed 187 of them tonight.

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#6

11-04-2003, 07:32 AM

oh shit thats mean time to submit site with various domains, if they are reiundexing to get rid of the spammers, probably a good time to submit new sites to them.

<a href="http://netverifier.com/getpaid.asp?siteid=10018799"><img src="http://www.skyweb.net/~kgosselin/banners/newbanner.gif" border="0"></a><br><font color=white size=2> We provide the content to keep your members sticking around!<BR></font> <font color=white size=3>$45.00 per sale!</font>
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#7

11-04-2003, 07:38 AM

A few months back they did something funny. All of the sudden keyword stuffing and PR manipulation worked and it has been that way for 2-3 months now. In the past when some of this stuff snuck in a new index it would be gone within 3 days and the offending domain would be blacklisted. I guess they are ending the experiment and going back to the old system to get rid of the spam. Expect all of the TGPs that got a big PR boast a few months ago to go back down to their old PR levels.
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#8

11-04-2003, 07:44 AM

for example when pages like this get a PR 6 you know something is wrong.

http://free-web-directory.com/a/office_depot/
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#9

11-04-2003, 07:58 AM

Interesting.... I'm starting to do some SEO, I hope this is good news.

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Kingfish

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#10

11-04-2003, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by Tuga
Interesting.... I'm starting to do some SEO, I hope this is good news.

It all depends on what type of SEO you do. For those that do the stuffing and all of their inbound links are trades may find themselves with the old 0 PR.
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#11

11-04-2003, 10:38 AM

HORSESHIT

the sound of one hand googlewhacking
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#12

11-04-2003, 10:41 AM

ICQ 212-115-582
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#13

11-04-2003, 10:44 AM

Google always claims they are just one spam filter away from getting it right. I wonder what they will do. Do you suppose that all the sites that are stuffed with inbound links would be dropped in PR? I was thinking there are a lot of pretty good pages that have a lot of inbound linking going on. How would the new algo know the difference?

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#14

11-04-2003, 10:46 AM

Good Thread.. anymore info on this ?
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#15

11-04-2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Kingfish

It all depends on what type of SEO you do. For those that do the stuffing and all of their inbound links are trades may find themselves with the old 0 PR.

What exactly do you mean by stuffing? And are you saying that if I trade links with other sites, it might actually hurt me?

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GonePhishing

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#16

11-04-2003, 11:03 AM

Some people think that a lot of recipricol links being traded may hurt both sites involved. Others say recips don't matter and that a link to your page in any way is good.

If recips do hurt you though, I would suggest trading links, but not direct recip. Gather all inbound links to one or several targets, but use other pages that you have to return a link. This way it would be less recip redundant.

Of course I could be wrong. Just a thought.

Also, there are people saying in the SEO forums that goolge has only added the DMOZ update that was done in May to the SERPS as of yesterday. Could be a lot cooking there.

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#17

11-04-2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by GonePhishing
Some people think that a lot of recipricol links being traded may hurt both sites involved. Others say recips don't matter and that a link to your page in any way is good.

If recips do hurt you though, I would suggest trading links, but not direct recip. Gather all inbound links to one or several targets, but use other pages that you have to return a link. This way it would be less recip redundant.

Of course I could be wrong. Just a thought.

Also, there are people saying in the SEO forums that goolge has only added the DMOZ update that was done in May to the SERPS as of yesterday. Could be a lot cooking there.

Ok, that's some food for thought. But is someone links to me using the "key word" in the anchor tag, and that is relevant, shouldn't that help?

Also, you didn't mention what Stuffing was. And not the kind that goes into a turkey or a mouth.

Jay D.

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#18

11-04-2003, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Kingfish
for example when pages like this get a PR 6 you know something is wrong.

http://free-web-directory.com/a/office_depot/

w00t
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GonePhishing

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#19

11-04-2003, 11:30 AM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Kingfish

It all depends on what type of SEO you do. For those that do the stuffing and all of their inbound links are trades may find themselves with the old 0 PR.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What exactly do you mean by stuffing? And are you saying that if I trade links with other sites, it might actually hurt me?

If I didn't clarify... I am guessing that Kingfish means that if you page has a link from someone you traded with, and you link back to them (recip style) that a lot of this sort of activity would be seen as a stuffing tactic that Google would frown on. My previous post had an idea of avoiding the redundant back and forth of recips by having a page you ask a traders to link to while offering them a link back on still a different page. It would add some variation on linking structure.

Generally speaking, (while hoping not to piss anyone off) I would say that Google did decrease the value of the recip method, however, they don't seem to penalize it outright as of yet. I think they just lowered the power of a recip link.

Moreover, I think that this could be the case. Even so, a link from a page with good P.R. does still seem to help. The only thing that I can think of that would really be bad is if one would link to other pages that are in bad neighborhoods (penalized pages or pages that spam).

Overall, I would say nothing makes me happier than a solid text link from a site with good P.R. It's even better if you can get that inbound link without having to directly link back to that page which has linked to you. In this case you would offer a link off yet another page with good P.R. to the person that linked to your original target page. This way both parties will have something that does not appear as a direct recip system and in theory would be better.

I would say avoid a iron clad pattern of any technique. I have personally always thought Google really busts up on patterns more than anything else. On the other hand, they don't really seem to catch a lot of the blatent spam right away.

Man, I hope I made some sense for you.

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#20

11-04-2003, 11:30 AM

Stuffing means putting the keywords on a page many times over and over, just for the purpose of raising kw density and deceiving the spider.

It's very easy to judge if you are breaking any SE rules. Answer one single question : Is your site built for surfers or did you put it together just to get some SE traffic?

If it was built to gain SE traffic, chances are it has no value for the surfer and as such it is just a spam site that all SEs want to get rid of.

However, there are milions of sites like that out there and google will never be able to catch them all, just stick with good old SEO tactics and you should be safe.

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#21

11-04-2003, 11:33 AM

As in my last reply, I love anchor text that is relevant and in synch to my keywords and url....

For instance... The guy who is #1 for free porn... His system is that his url is 1freepornfinder. His keywords are free porn and or variations of that phrase. He always asks for a text link that say free porn or #1freepornfinder. In this way he keeps the keywords, the linkback, the anchor text, and the url all in line.

As you asked about being relevant... Yes, being relevant totally helps. If you are a free porn page and other good free porn pages link to you, it means more than a good paysite page linking to your free porn page (again this is theory)

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#22

11-04-2003, 11:39 AM

I spent a lot of time not exactly answering the question hehe... Good post. Listen this this guy. Play a clean game, and in the long run you are safer.

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#23

11-04-2003, 11:41 AM

I mean to thank matuloo
and I mean him when referring to this guy! It was a good post.

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#24

11-04-2003, 11:47 AM

Well I'll be dammed, I learned something today. Thank you very much, the good news is I have people that I link on a "links" page, and they are re-directed back to another page.

Here's a thought I just had, I was having problems trading links with one site, and found out the php I am using, I am validating with cookies. Basically, the site I was trading links with, couldn't check my url. So I changed the "in" page, to hello world. and the site validated my url. I wonder if SE's have the same problem...

Hope that wasn't too confusing.

J

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#25

11-04-2003, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by EscortBiz
within 45 days they claim most of the google spammers not just adult will be gone

Can I ask who made this claim?
WG

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#26

11-04-2003, 11:58 AM

WG,

You got me on that one. Kingfish says he saw it on a site he reviewed. My guess is it must have been rumored on SEO forums or something, though I have yet to see any such post.

Perhaps King could clarify if he has a chance? I am curious about that one myself.

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#27

11-04-2003, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by CS-Jay
Well I'll be dammed, I learned something today. Thank you very much, the good news is I have people that I link on a "links" page, and they are re-directed back to another page.

Here's a thought I just had, I was having problems trading links with one site, and found out the php I am using, I am validating with cookies. Basically, the site I was trading links with, couldn't check my url. So I changed the "in" page, to hello world. and the site validated my url. I wonder if SE's have the same problem...

Hope that wasn't too confusing.

J

Unfortunatelly it was totally confusing, I have no idea what you are talking about

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#28

11-04-2003, 12:09 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by CS-Jay
Well I'll be dammed, I learned something today. Thank you very much, the good news is I have people that I link on a "links" page, and they are re-directed back to another page.

Here's a thought I just had, I was having problems trading links with one site, and found out the php I am using, I am validating with cookies. Basically, the site I was trading links with, couldn't check my url. So I changed the "in" page, to hello world. and the site validated my url. I wonder if SE's have the same problem...

Hope that wasn't too confusing.

J
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A little lost on this one too...

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#29

11-04-2003, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by GonePhishing
My guess is it must have been rumored on SEO forums or something, though I have yet to see any such post.

yeah, rumors like that start on SEO forums so everyone is scared into making "user friendly" pages while the spammers continue to make $$$ by the bucketful.

here's how i see my job as an adult webmaster:

1) get surfer to my site
2) send surfer to my sponsor

i couldn't give two flippity fucks if my site has ANYTHING a surfer is looking for, other than a link to my sponsor.
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#30

11-04-2003, 12:28 PM

Sorry guys, I guess that's what I get for doing 3 things at once. I even re-read it and it confused me!

Ok, to start off with. I have a kind of top list links page. When I link to all sites from the links.html page and when the reciprocal link come in it's redirected to index page. So this should be a good thing, as Martha says.

Here's the simplest question I can come up with:
Can SE's follow php redirections, even if I am using cookies to decide what page is going to be displayed?

(it took me a few minutes to come up with that stupid sentence...it's just about time for a beer.)

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#31

11-04-2003, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by theking
I came across this just now.

"We have pulled our links to inspect them closely because of the new Google shake-up. Links will be down until furher notice."

What is this referring to?

I think this could be referring to the fact that google seem to be making "link "pages pr0 .So if you have a page that is just specifically full of links and nothing else google might be ignoring it.The answer is to mix up your links with content and dont name it "link page"

The rumour about spam being gone from google probably comes from the fact that Google.de has employed lots of Students from the university of Hamburg to work on some areas (erotic, affiliate, ...) and go through the top 20 listings to check them for abnormalities and ban the sites or lower their listings.
A new system [ algo? ] is also going to be used for the next update which detects dwps and other redirects, including cloaking ("the bot should see what the users see"). They made some successful tests in Ireland.
thats the story from a german forum anyway
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#32

11-04-2003, 12:37 PM

Was it GoogleGuy :D
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#33

11-04-2003, 12:42 PM

Ignorance is never bliss.
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#34

11-04-2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by swami
The rumour about spam being gone from google probably comes from the fact that Google.de has employed lots of Students from the university of Hamburg to work on some areas (erotic, affiliate, ...) and go through the top 20 listings to check them for abnormalities and ban the sites or lower their listings.

that should be easy, i mean really, how many words are there and how many combinations?

they'll have SE spam wiped out in no time.
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#35

11-04-2003, 01:02 PM

Does anybody have any idea how many students it would take to sift through all adult keyword combinations...

Selling MedicalPorn,com and a dozen other gyno & doctor domains here:
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=871984
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#36

11-04-2003, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by eatapeach

that should be easy, i mean really, how many words are there and how many combinations?

they'll have SE spam wiped out in no time.

As the rumour say only the top 20 will be checked then the spam that is no21 will move to the top.Spam will still be there but just not as well done .
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#37

11-04-2003, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by swami
As the rumour say only the top 20 will be checked then the spam that is no21 will move to the top.Spam will still be there but just not as well done .

Care to post the source of this rumor? How will the spam be checked, some automated means? I would like to see this rumor myself...

WG

I play with Google.
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theking

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#38

11-04-2003, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by GonePhishing
WG,

You got me on that one. Kingfish says he saw it on a site he reviewed. My guess is it must have been rumored on SEO forums or something, though I have yet to see any such post.

Perhaps King could clarify if he has a chance? I am curious about that one myself.

I reviewed 187 sites last night to either approve or dis-approve a link. This one site had pulled his links and put up this page ""We have pulled our links to inspect them closely because of the new Google shake-up. Links will be down until furher notice."

Bottom line...he pulled his reciprocal link page.

When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html
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#39

11-04-2003, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by CS-Jay

What exactly do you mean by stuffing? And are you saying that if I trade links with other sites, it might actually hurt me?

Keyword stuffing is what I am talking about. The short definition - repeating keywords needlessly and excessively in ways that they aren?t being used naturally as they would be when using good English.

The linking issue is a different issue. Google gives you less credit for reciprocal links than they do a non-reciprocal link. At some point there is a PR penalty assessed for having too many reciprocal links. When google was broken the last 3 or so months the let both of these things go. A lot of webmasters new to SEO got the idea that this was how google always did it. If you wondered why so many TGPs got a big PR boost it was because there was no penalty assessed for reciprocal links
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#40

11-04-2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by WiredGuy

Care to post the source of this rumor? How will the spam be checked, some automated means? I would like to see this rumor myself...

WG

http://www.suchmaschinentricks.de/fo...d=5985&forum=1
googlein the US are also advertising for people with search engine knowledge.

http://www.georgetown.edu/department.../googlejob.pdf

What it basically says is this
Google, Inc., the search engine company based in Mountain View, is recruiting native speakers of English to help with search quality evaluation. Work is part-time on a project-by-project basis. Evaluation projects are web based, and thus can be done with internet access from home. Candidates must be comfortable with browser use and the basic mechanics of internet searches, and generally skilled at analytical tasks.

Also
http://bases-lists.stanford.edu/pipe...q4/000029.html

Last edited by swami; 11-04-2003, 02:20 PM.
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#41

11-04-2003, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by Kingfish

Keyword stuffing is what I am talking about. The short definition - repeating keywords needlessly and excessively in ways that they aren?t being used naturally as they would be when using good English.

The linking issue is a different issue. Google gives you less credit for reciprocal links than they do a non-reciprocal link. At some point there is a PR penalty assessed for having too many reciprocal links. When google was broken the last 3 or so months the let both of these things go. A lot of webmasters new to SEO got the idea that this was how google always did it. If you wondered why so many TGPs got a big PR boost it was because there was no penalty assessed for reciprocal links

Are you saying then that exchanging relevant links is no longer of value as regards a PR rating...and is in fact harmful. This does not sound correct to me.

When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html
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#42

11-04-2003, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by GonePhishing
As in my last reply, I love anchor text that is relevant and in synch to my keywords and url....

For instance... The guy who is #1 for free porn... His system is that his url is 1freepornfinder. His keywords are free porn and or variations of that phrase. He always asks for a text link that say free porn or #1freepornfinder. In this way he keeps the keywords, the linkback, the anchor text, and the url all in line.

As you asked about being relevant... Yes, being relevant totally helps. If you are a free porn page and other good free porn pages link to you, it means more than a good paysite page linking to your free porn page (again this is theory)

Why are you trying to compete for 'free porn' ?
Wouldn't it be an idea to find a more productive term(s)?

These guys steal your signups: Read here.
And sexsearch.com profit from it.
Check out which sponsors pay thieves here.
And here's a list of clean sponsors.
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#43

11-04-2003, 02:30 PM

Another point for the newbie SEOs: The other problem with reciprocal links is you don?t have control over the site that is linking to you. Say you cut a deal with a really clean site that doesn?t have many outbound links and has a high PR. You link back. A few months go by this guy has turned this formally clean site into a links farm because he has traded with a couple of 100 other people. Googlebot goes through his site and makes the determination that it is a bad neighborhood and it assigns the domain a permeant PR 0 now the googlebot scans the outbound links on that site and finds your site and your return link, and decides to include your site in the bad neighborhood.
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#44

11-04-2003, 02:32 PM

Looks like Google is getting desperate to get rid of spam. This should be interesting to watch

Spam link here
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#45

11-04-2003, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Kingfish
Another point for the newbie SEOs: The other problem with reciprocal links is you don?t have control over the site that is linking to you. Say you cut a deal with a really clean site that doesn?t have many outbound links and has a high PR. You link back. A few months go by this guy has turned this formally clean site into a links farm because he has traded with a couple of 100 other people. Googlebot goes through his site and makes the determination that it is a bad neighborhood and it assigns the domain a permeant PR 0 now the googlebot scans the outbound links on that site and finds your site and your return link, and decides to include your site in the bad neighborhood.

I have a habit of checking out my link exchanges at least once a month to make sure their pr is up to par and that my link is even still there. Others should too...

tom at ryphs dot com
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#46

11-04-2003, 02:36 PM

Another point for the newbie SEOs: The other problem with reciprocal links is you don?t have control over the site that is linking to you. Say you cut a deal with a really clean site that doesn?t have many outbound links and has a high PR. You link back. A few months go by this guy has turned this formally clean site into a links farm because he has traded with a couple of 100 other people. Googlebot goes through his site and makes the determination that it is a bad neighborhood and it assigns the domain a permeant PR 0 now the googlebot scans the outbound links on that site and finds your site and your return link, and decides to include your site in the bad neighborhood.

The problem is though, the real scammers (the ones who own 200+ domains each on a different IP) will easily combat this. Site A will link to Site B, Site B will link to Site C, and than Site C will linkback to Site A. This new tactic from google may catch a fair few scammers, but it will also hurt a lot of honest people.
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#47

11-04-2003, 02:39 PM

odin88 has been paying attention
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#48

11-04-2003, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Odin88

The problem is though, the real scammers (the ones who own 200+ domains each on a different IP) will easily combat this. Site A will link to Site B, Site B will link to Site C, and than Site C will linkback to Site A. This new tactic from google may catch a fair few scammers, but it will also hurt a lot of honest people.

Just how is that scamming? Just because someone owns a lot of sites? Not sure I understand that.
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Odin88

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#49

11-04-2003, 02:42 PM

odin88 has been paying attention

Yeah, I am hoping it doesn't hurt me :/. I trade links with friends and other relevent sites (not link farms) often and I am worried I will get pulled down for taking part in honest trades. Anyway, I guess time will tell.
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Kingfish

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#50

11-04-2003, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by theking

Are you saying then that exchanging relevant links is no longer of value as regards a PR rating...and is in fact harmful. This does not sound correct to me.

What I am saying is that there is a negative effect if you have too many reciprocal links. Now that is a colossal simplification of what is actually a very complex process. Think of it this way say we have two sites site A and site B. Site A has 100 inbound links and out of those 100 inbound links 95 are reciprocal. Site B has 8 inbound links and all 8 of them are non-reciprocal. Which site do you think will rank higher? Assume everything else is on the up and up and as equal as possible. Play this out a bit more ( I should be getting paid for this) if your site is new and you have few inbound links in order to avoid penalty very few of your links can be reciprocal. The best case is they don?t count your inbound links. The worst case is they penalize you in PR. As someone else indicated, it is the pattern they are looking at. As your site linking pattern gets closer to a circle the more trouble you are in.
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