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eatapeach

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all bow before the power of china

10-31-2003, 03:55 AM

China GDP jumps 9.1% in third quarter

"TOKYO (CBS.MW) -- China's economy grew strongly in the third quarter on the back of large increases for exports, consumer spending and investment, the official Xinhua news agency said Friday, citing the National Bureau of Statistics.

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China's gross domestic product rose 9.1 percent in the third quarter, better than a Bloomberg forecast for 8.7 percent growth and second-quarter growth of 6.7 percent.

For the first nine months of the year, China's economy grew 8.5 percent to 7.91 trillion yuan ($956 billion).

The mainland's GDP is now expected to grow around 8.5 percent for the full year, Reuters quoted the statistical bureau's deputy chief Qiu Xiaohua as saying at a news conference.

In the third quarter, exports rose 30 percent, while fixed investment jumped 31 percent and retail sales grew 8.6 percent.

"China growth was stronger than expected in the (third quarter) while inflation remains low and consumption recovers," said Win Thin, economist with Mandalay Advisors. "Overall, the economy is in solid shape, and we see no need for policy-makers there to endanger this outlook with a shift in (forex) policy.

The Chinese government had forecast that the economy would grow by 7 percent this year.

The latest numbers will stoke concern that the economy could be overheating. It may also put pressure on the Chinese government to revalue the yen amid U.S. complaints that the undervalued currency has created an export boom for the mainland at the expense of its trading partners.

The Shanghai Composite surged on the news, gaining 0.5 percent to 1,372.

China's booming economy is drawing a huge influx of foreign investment from multinationals such as Ford (F: news, chart, profile), which announced Friday that it's pouring over $1 billion over the next several years to expand production with its Chinese partner."

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not to piss on colin's red white and blue parade, but china did okay last quarter as well.
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Mr.Fiction

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10-31-2003, 03:59 AM

America's numbers suck compared to China's.

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quiet

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#3

10-31-2003, 03:59 AM

lo fucking loud.

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#4

10-31-2003, 04:00 AM

Good news.

As soon as the Chinese population has an income compareable to the Western-World we have a huge new market to sell our goods to.

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quiet

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#5

10-31-2003, 04:00 AM

truly the decliine of the western empire. at least i'll be long dead.

we'll miss you our friend. RIP
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#6

10-31-2003, 04:01 AM

too bad those fuckers dont(or cant) buy porn.

they do have some nice sweatshop shoes though.
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eatapeach

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10-31-2003, 04:08 AM

Originally posted by eatapeach
China's booming economy is drawing a huge influx of foreign investment from multinationals such as Ford (F: news, chart, profile), which announced Friday that it's pouring over $1 billion over the next several years to expand production with its Chinese partner."

link

and just in case you missed this part, here's some news about ford motor company in the good ol' USA

"The Vulcan Forge in Dearborn and Cleveland Aluminum Casting plant will close by the end of this year, Ford officials now say. In addition, the Ford assembly plant in Edison, N.J. will shut its doors in the first quarter of 2004.

Ford also plans to eliminate one shift at its St. Louis assembly plant in the summer of 2004 and Ford will close another assembly plant in Lorain, Ohio in 2007. With the retirements and plants closings, Ford could eliminate over 12,000 blue-collar jobs in the next four years and probably more."

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so if things are looking so rosy in america, why is ford laying off workers in america but investing a billion in china?

the answer for the slow folks is that ford sees more promise in the future of china than in america.

i guess to some people i'm an asshole and i hate america for pointing this out, but i'm not the one investing a billion dollars in some other country's economy.
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#8

10-31-2003, 04:12 AM

Communism works!
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#9

10-31-2003, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction
America's numbers suck compared to China's.

That's like comparing the ERAs of little league pitchers with those of the New York Yankees.

Finish the article. You probably already know that the US economy is more than $10 trillion. The Chinese economy is a mere pittance registering in at $956 billion. 30x less per person and 10x smaller overall.

Quiet is right in the long-run. Power flows in the general direction of population. In the past few centuries that means that Europe decreased in power and America increased in power. In the next few centuries it will quite possibly flow towards China, India, and a few others. After all of us are dead though.

For now keep speaking English. Maybe your grandchildren will be adult webmasters speaking Chinese on GFY III. Not until then.

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#10

10-31-2003, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by eatapeach

so if things are looking so rosy in america, why is ford laying off workers in america but investing a billion in china?

the answer for the slow folks is that ford sees more promise in the future of china than in america.

i guess to some people i'm an asshole and i hate america for pointing this out, but i'm not the one investing a billion dollars in some other country's economy.

First off, the US just had a GREAT quarter of auto sales with auto sales contributing 1.7% to the quarter's rise in GDP.

The answer to your question though is simple. There are over one billion Chinese mostly living under third world conditions. As their economy industrializes, their population urbanizes and their economy experiences market reforms (capitalistic reforms @ that), consumption of goods increases.

It doesn't take much wisdom to see that they will be buying automobiles. Projected auto sales and gas consumption for China are astronomical for the next two decades.

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10-31-2003, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by Colin

Quiet is right in the long-run. Power flows in the general direction of population. In the past few centuries that means that Europe decreased in power and America increased in power. In the next few centuries it will quite possibly flow towards China, India, and a few others. After all of us are dead though.

Europe still has alot of potential to grow its economy. (Eastern-European countries.)

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#12

10-31-2003, 04:28 AM

Also I prefer the figures published by the CIA and used in many other economic reports.

China GDP = 5.7 trillion US dollars
United States GDP = 10.4 trillion US dollars

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#13

10-31-2003, 04:32 AM

Originally posted by Project-Shadow
Communism works!

Communist countries have always been able to expand rapidly through government controlled industrialization and urbanization. Stalin's Russia was a great example of this. Communism failed in Russia when it got to the point of a huge bureucratic machine - with the price of goods in Vladivostok being controlled by office workers in Moscow.

What makes China different from Russia is their free market reforms. There is a huge correlation between wealthy countries and the degree of freedom of the marketplace. The more free market reforms there are in China the better their economy is - not the other way around.

China will face many obstacles and they have a long way to go - most important of which is that their currency is currently pegged to the dollar which is causing immense political pressure from the US and the EU for China to devalue the Yuan. You know of course the catastrophe that befell the Ruble after it was devalued.

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#14

10-31-2003, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by Colin
What makes China different from Russia is their free market reforms. There is a huge correlation between wealthy countries and the degree of freedom of the marketplace. The more free market reforms there are in China the better their economy is - not the other way around.[/B]

bingo. add to that their huge population.

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#15

10-31-2003, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by ControlThy
Also I prefer the figures published by the CIA and used in many other economic reports.

China GDP = 5.7 trillion US dollars
United States GDP = 10.4 trillion US dollars

That's purchasing power parity. China themselves doesn't use PPP. Read their government economic reports. You can find them online.

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#16

10-31-2003, 04:36 AM

Originally posted by quiet

bingo. add to that their huge population.

Yup. Agreed. Come back in 100 years.

It will be interesting to see how stable their political system will handle the changes. Right now, they are handling it beautifully reforming at a slow, patient rate. Contrast that with the rapid attempt at market reforms in Eastern Europe and the damage that caused.

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10-31-2003, 04:36 AM

Originally posted by Colin

That's purchasing power parity. China themselves doesn't use PPP. Read their government economic reports. You can find them online.

I never said they did.

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10-31-2003, 04:36 AM

Originally posted by Colin

That's purchasing power parity. China themselves doesn't use PPP. Read their government economic reports. You can find them online.

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#19

10-31-2003, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by ControlThy

Europe still has alot of potential to grow its economy. (Eastern-European countries.)

Those countries have much smaller populations. Take Ukraine for example. Even if after an extended period of time they manage a GDP/person equivalent to the US their economy will still be 6x smaller than the US economy.

For China to equal the US they only need to reach a per capita GDP of 4.5 x SMALLER than the US. Currently it is much less that that.

What are the most populous countries in the world? China, India, US, Indonesia, Brazil, and Pakistan. Four of those are in the same general region of the world.

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#20

10-31-2003, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

You can find any number of press releases from China's National Bureau of Statistics which use the numbers below for GDP and not PPP.

Look at it this way. China predicts they will become the world's third largest economy in the world in 30 years or so. Now how can they become the world's third largest economy in the world if they are already second? They're not. You don't use PPP.

Here are last year's numbers from the Financial Review.

No. Country GDP $billions
1 USA 10,208
2 Japan 4,149
3 Germany 1,847
4 United Kingdom 1,424
5 France 1,307
6 China (exc.HK) 1,159
7 Italy 1,089
8 Canada 700
9 Mexico 618
10 Spain 582

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#21

10-31-2003, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by ControlThy

I never said they did.

China will rise to be a global competitor with the US once it can mass produce submarines, tanks, jet fighters, and carriers. The
price of tea in China matters not.

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10-31-2003, 04:51 AM

Colin,

Ofcourse small countries like the Ukraine alone can never reach the GDP level of the US. I am talking about the entire EU, which currently has a GDP close to that of the US. However, to match the US economy in size the new EU members (Eastern-European countries) need to reform their economical systems.

Poland for example, with 39 million citizens, with a GDP per head of only 41% of the EU average has alot of space to grow.

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#23

10-31-2003, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by Colin

China will rise to be a global competitor with the US once it can mass produce submarines, tanks, jet fighters, and carriers. The price of tea in China matters not.

oh goody, that's just what the world needs more of.

you can take any amount of numbers and present them any way you desire, but china is a global competitor NOW.

not to get into any conspiracy theories, but it has been mentioned that the reason the US was in such a hurry to invade and occupy iraq was to control oil supplies in the future.

colin even mentioned this in an earlier post :

It doesn't take much wisdom to see that they will be buying automobiles. Projected auto sales and gas consumption for China are astronomical for the next two decades.
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#24

10-31-2003, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by ControlThy
Colin,

Ofcourse small countries like the Ukraine alone can never reach the GDP level of the US. I am talking about the entire EU, which currently has a GDP close to that of the US. However, to match the US economy in size the new EU members (Eastern-European countries) need to reform their economical systems.

Poland for example, with 39 million citizens, with a GDP per head of only 41% of the EU average has alot of space to grow.

Control Thy,

You probably know this.

Would the 25 nations of an expanded EU have a combined economy as large as that of the US economy right now? If so, what are the numbers?

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10-31-2003, 05:13 AM

my fiance is a programmer in the manufacturing industry. large parts of that industry are now outsourcing, mostly to china, not only because of price but the work from china is better made than u.s. and also ready faster.

i see the point of the various companies sending work out - some of the manufacturers they were getting parts from were coming in 3x over the time things are supposed to be ready, and very badly made.

unfortunately this leads to more unemployment here :-(

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10-31-2003, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by eatapeach
you can take any amount of numbers and present them any way you desire, but china is a global competitor NOW.

Cool. They sent a man into space. They've reached the development stage of 1960's America. I don't even think they have an aircraft carrier yet. Aren't they still trying to buy an old aircraft carrier off anyone that has one? The US produces its technology. China is still hoping to acquire out-dated technologies from Russia.

Much of China is living in the dark ages. 75% of the country doesn't even have a telephone.

No matter how you slice it there is only one superpower right now. Surely that will change in time but at present that is a true statement.

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10-31-2003, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by basschick
my fiance is a programmer in the manufacturing industry. large parts of that industry are now outsourcing, mostly to china, not only because of price but the work from china is better made than u.s. and also ready faster.

The Pleasure Labs programming staff is overseas. Very cheap. I make more money as a result. I then spend my money in the US.

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#28

10-31-2003, 05:40 AM

Colin,

Please check out:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/euro.html
The figures for the current EU can be found under "Economic and Demographic Indicators for EU Countries ".

The total GDP 9,225 trillion USD

If we add the new EU member states: 400 billion USD

Total: GDP 9,625 trillion USD

This is not including applicant member states.

(Sources: DRI-WEFA World Economic Outlook, World Bank)

I don't see the EU becoming the biggest economy in the next 10 years as alot of reforms are still needed, which takes time.

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#29

10-31-2003, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by ControlThy
Colin,

Please check out:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/euro.html
The figures for the current EU can be found under "Economic and Demographic Indicators for EU Countries ".

The total GDP 9,225 trillion USD

If we add the new EU member states: 400 billion USD

Total: GDP 9,625 trillion USD

This is not including applicant member states.

(Sources: DRI-WEFA World Economic Outlook, World Bank)

I don't see the EU becoming the biggest economy in the next 10 years as alot of reforms are still needed, which takes time.

Wow. That's amazing. 25 countries some of them among the most powerful political entities on the planet and the total economy doesn't quite equal that of the US.

Can you imagine if the Asian countries could put together something like the EU and combine Japan's current economy with that of emerging China?

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#30

10-31-2003, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Colin

Wow. That's amazing. 25 countries some of them among the most powerful political entities on the planet and the total economy doesn't quite equal that of the US.

If they copy the US system and completely kill socialism, they can probably match the US economy. And remember, many of the new memberstates and even Spain and Portugal still have old-style economical systems in place or need time to develop their economies to match the Western-European countries.

Can you imagine if the Asian countries could put together something like the EU and combine Japan's current economy with that of emerging China?

Indeed, however, the differences between Japan and China are too large to establish The United States of Asia.

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#31

10-31-2003, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by sm00ty
too bad those fuckers dont(or cant) buy porn.

they do have some nice sweatshop shoes though.

How do you know? Ignorant trailer trash. Go take some geography and history lesson.

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#32

10-31-2003, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by Project-Shadow
Communism works!

Communism has actually died long time ago in 1989. After that, it's nationalism under the name of communism.

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#33

10-31-2003, 08:35 AM

China manipulates its currency so that they have a 27% price edge on mfr.'d goods over US based manufacturers.

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#34

10-31-2003, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by Colin

Communist countries have always been able to expand rapidly through government controlled industrialization and urbanization. Stalin's Russia was a great example of this. Communism failed in Russia when it got to the point of a huge bureucratic machine - with the price of goods in Vladivostok being controlled by office workers in Moscow.

What makes China different from Russia is their free market reforms. There is a huge correlation between wealthy countries and the degree of freedom of the marketplace. The more free market reforms there are in China the better their economy is - not the other way around.

China will face many obstacles and they have a long way to go - most important of which is that their currency is currently pegged to the dollar which is causing immense political pressure from the US and the EU for China to devalue the Yuan. You know of course the catastrophe that befell the Ruble after it was devalued.

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#35

10-31-2003, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by Colin

Cool. They sent a man into space. They've reached the development stage of 1960's America. I don't even think they have an aircraft carrier yet. Aren't they still trying to buy an old aircraft carrier off anyone that has one? The US produces its technology. China is still hoping to acquire out-dated technologies from Russia.

Much of China is living in the dark ages. 75% of the country doesn't even have a telephone.

No matter how you slice it there is only one superpower right now. Surely that will change in time but at present that is a true statement.

Sadly, I have to agree with you.

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#36

10-31-2003, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by Colin

Can you imagine if the Asian countries could put together something like the EU and combine Japan's current economy with that of emerging China?

That, I can guarantee you, will never happen, as a Chinese working for a Japanese company in America.

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#37

10-31-2003, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by Project-Shadow
Communism works!

If you are referring to the killing of over 150 million people, the brutalizing, isolation, and virtual enslavement of another couple of billion by all powerful dictatorships, and the general holding back of the evolution of half the human race......you're absolutely right!

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