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bighitter

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#1

Acacia's after affiliates

10-29-2003, 04:20 PM

Today, Karlton from Acacia spent 45minutes on the phone with me stating that they are going to pursue any affiliate who is linking to a sponsor without a license from them.

I have many sites linking to several sponsors, many who have not entered into an agreement with them, so now Acacia expects me to pay them an annual fee to keep myself out of the mess as an affiliate.

EXTORTION AT IT'S BEST!

BTW.

MATRIX GAVE UP THEIR LIST, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!

I KNOW WITH 100% CERTAINTY

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#2

10-29-2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by bighitter
MATRIX GAVE UP THEIR LIST

no shit????
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Veterans Day

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#3

10-29-2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by bighitter
Today, Karlton from Acacia spent 45minutes on the phone with me stating that they are going to pursue any affiliate who is linking to a sponsor without a license from them.

I have many sites linking to several sponsors, many who have not entered into an agreement with them, so now Acacia expects me to pay them an annual fee to keep myself out of the mess as an affiliate.

EXTORTION AT IT'S BEST!

BTW.

MATRIX GAVE UP THEIR LIST, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!

I KNOW WITH 100% CERTAINTY

tell me more

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Pleasurepays

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#4

10-29-2003, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by bighitter
Today, Karlton from Acacia spent 45minutes on the phone with me stating that they are going to pursue any affiliate who is linking to a sponsor without a license from them.

I have many sites linking to several sponsors, many who have not entered into an agreement with them, so now Acacia expects me to pay them an annual fee to keep myself out of the mess as an affiliate.

EXTORTION AT IT'S BEST!

BTW.

MATRIX GAVE UP THEIR LIST, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!

I KNOW WITH 100% CERTAINTY

they are trying to scare you. its bullshit and its impossible. imagine trying to go after 1000 nobodies. its not possible and it would be prohibitively expensive to litigate that many cases and financially impossile.
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NetRodent

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#5

10-29-2003, 04:26 PM

Are you a lawyer? If not, you shouldn't be talking to them.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
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Veterans Day

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#6

10-29-2003, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Pleasurepays

they are trying to scare you. its bullshit and its impossible. imagine trying to go after 1000 nobodies. its not possible and it would be prohibitively expensive to litigate that many cases and financially impossile.

this is in fact so very true, they are not stupid enough to drag some 20k a year guy into court. This is business to them and maay be principal to you but they couldnt drag everyone in. No way, sit back and let the big dogs play (Spike and the such)

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Scootermuze

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#7

10-29-2003, 04:29 PM

Call them back and ask them how they can do that when their official spokesperson, Berman, said,

"We're only looking to collect on the income stream Once.. You can't collect multiple times on an income stream.. It's simply not allowed.. It's patent issues"

This being the case, they could only collect from the sponsor OR just ONE affiliate that is promoting the program.

If they want proof that he said it, direct them
here
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FightThisPatent

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#8

10-29-2003, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by bighitter
I have many sites linking to several sponsors, many who have not entered into an agreement with them, so now Acacia expects me to pay them an annual fee to keep myself out of the mess as an affiliate.

yup.. that's their plan.. it's not double dipping.. if you think about it, makes more sense for them to let sponsors go and just focus on affiliates.

There is a huge magnitude greater of afflilates then sponsors.

If most make less than $100K/year... they could rack up some signficant revenue vs. licensing to like less than 100 sponsors.

Maybe could explain why a sponsor who is faced with a huge legal issue or fees from Acacia, may just settle by giving up affiliate information.

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SiMpLe

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#9

10-29-2003, 04:42 PM

Double dipping maybe???

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Mr.Fiction

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#10

10-29-2003, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by FightThisPatent

There is a huge magnitude greater of afflilates then sponsors.

If most make less than $100K/year... they could rack up some signficant revenue vs. licensing to like less than 100 sponsors.

The average affiliate doesn't make $100k a year. They would lose more money on lawsuits than they would ever win.

If they try that strategy, their shareholders should sue the officers of the company for wasting money.

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Giorgio_Xo

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#11

10-29-2003, 04:45 PM

"It is a classic scare tactic," my attorney said several times this week.

A lawsuit against an affiliate wouldn't last four minutes in a court of law for the following reasons:

1) You are only a medium of advertising.

2) You have no part in the financial transaction.

3) You are not the party actually transferring video/audio files.

4a) Acacia would have to prove the patent is valid.

4b) A cross claim would be made since all webmasters use either Microsoft or Real technologies to violate the supposed patent. This would force Microsoft and/or Real to defend against the Acacia lawsuit. (Trust me. This is what Acacia most fears.)

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#12

10-29-2003, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Pleasurepays

they are trying to scare you. its bullshit and its impossible. imagine trying to go after 1000 nobodies. its not possible and it would be prohibitively expensive to litigate that many cases and financially impossile.

1000? Say probably in the tens of thousands!

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#13

10-29-2003, 04:53 PM

ACACIA would have to be retarded to go after affiliates. It would definitely show that the company was ran by lawyers instead of actual businessmen.

Going after thousands and thousands of individual entities to reap around $1,500 a pop. They would lose more than they made! The only way they'll see profit is by convincing the larger companies to sign the license and hand over a good chunk of change.

They want my $1,500 license fee? They can take me to court.

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chemicaleyes

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#14

10-29-2003, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Giorgio_Xo
"It is a classic scare tactic," my attorney said several times this week.

A lawsuit against an affiliate wouldn't last four minutes in a court of law for the following reasons:

1) You are only a medium of advertising.

2) You have no part in the financial transaction.

3) You are not the party actually transferring video/audio files.

4a) Acacia would have to prove the patent is valid.

4b) A cross claim would be made since all webmasters use either Microsoft or Real technologies to violate the supposed patent. This would force Microsoft and/or Real to defend against the Acacia lawsuit. (Trust me. This is what Acacia most fears.)

agreed

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Veterans Day

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#15

10-29-2003, 04:55 PM

Im willing to be the average affiliate makes maybe 30k overall across the board

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Mr.Fiction

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#16

10-29-2003, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Veterans Day
Im willing to be the average affiliate makes maybe 30k overall across the board

If you include all affiliates, even those who sign up and never send a single signup, it's probably more like $600 per year average.

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#17

10-29-2003, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Veterans Day
Im willing to be the average affiliate makes maybe 30k overall across the board

I'm willing to bet if you want to average it out it's less than 25% of that. For every person make 30k in this business there's 10 making just 3k or less.

Ignorance is never bliss.
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Veterans Day

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#18

10-29-2003, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Tipsy

I'm willing to bet if you want to average it out it's less than 25% of that. For every person make 30k in this business there's 10 making just 3k or less.

no doubt

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#19

10-29-2003, 05:10 PM

Matrix huh? Funny thing is that they were the only people on that list Acacia showed us that I was affiliated with. Although I was 90% sure it was them, I'd still like to see proof.
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#20

10-29-2003, 05:13 PM

I'm going to laugh when Acacia starts going after thousands of 18 year old TGP submitters that make galleries in their spare time while going to college and probably earn about $800 a month making galleries

I can't wait to see that fiasco

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#21

10-29-2003, 05:17 PM

Acacia does seem to be going after affiliates. I got a nice letter from them just yesterday on my little free site.

Herschel Savage
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fatbaby

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#22

10-29-2003, 05:22 PM

Acacia is really NOT going after affiliates.... as stated above, there are too many, and the costs would be prohibitive...

Acacia IS using affiliates to put pressure on Sponsors to get THEM to settle....

It is their hope that Us dumb webmasters will move traffic EN MASSE to ONLY sponsors that have caved in.... er.... negotiated a settlement with Acacia.. thus pressuring the OTHER programs do do likewise...

dont do it....
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bighitter

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#23

10-29-2003, 05:38 PM

I manage approx. 1,500 affiliates and will tell you that 10% of them earn $20k per year, the other 90% are lucky to make $600 per year.

Acacia told me that if my affiliates link to a sponsor that has signed with them, they are free of any liable, otherwise they are liable to pay a fee based on the next year's expected earnings.

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cosis

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#24

10-29-2003, 05:47 PM

LOL I would like to see who does the research to see if the webmaster is linking to a sponsor without a license, they do not even have the domain name in the letter they are sending
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#25

10-29-2003, 06:43 PM

They need to look at some different sponsers.

Originally posted by Tipsy

I'm willing to bet if you want to average it out it's less than 25% of that. For every person make 30k in this business there's 10 making just 3k or less.

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Mr.Fiction

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#26

10-29-2003, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by fatbaby
Acacia is really NOT going after affiliates.... as stated above, there are too many, and the costs would be prohibitive...

Acacia IS using affiliates to put pressure on Sponsors to get THEM to settle....

It is their hope that Us dumb webmasters will move traffic EN MASSE to ONLY sponsors that have caved in.... er.... negotiated a settlement with Acacia.. thus pressuring the OTHER programs do do likewise...

dont do it....

The opposite is probably true.

More people will send traffic to people who didn't settle, rather than those who did.

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#27

10-29-2003, 06:55 PM

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#28

10-29-2003, 08:39 PM

I would say the truth of the matter is spread out in a few replies here so I will put it all together for you.

a) Double Dipping: It is only double dipping if they have a deal with the sponsor program. If they have a deal with the sponsor program, they cannot go after the affiliate, as admitted by bergman on the radio show. He said it would be illegal. Now, if the sponsor program has not signed a deal, then it is perfectly legal to go after the affiliates income, though, if all you are doing is linking to sites that have videos on them as affiliates, I would have to believe they would have a hard time winning in court (assuming you host no videos).

b) Chances are very good that this is a huge scare tactic on their part. Either they want all the affiliates to promote the companies they have deals with so they make more money or the want the sponsor programs to sign deals with them for fear they will lose all their affiliates if they don't - so they can get more money or both.

c) There is no way they can take every affliate to court - no way, would take years and years. BUT if they took about 20 or so to court how many affiliates would shit and revert to going with an affiliate that signed a deal so they would not have to fork over the cash (see b above for other scenerios).

d) They would love to have as many of the 100k affiliate marketers sign a deal as possible because if you sign a deal then they sign a deal with your sponsor, they can pretty much double dip legal because you signed your life away.

My advise - never get legal advise from a message board get a lawyer and do what is best for you.

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#29

10-29-2003, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Pleasurepays

they are trying to scare you. its bullshit and its impossible. imagine trying to go after 1000 nobodies. its not possible and it would be prohibitively expensive to litigate that many cases and financially impossile.

i agree, but it wouldnt surprise me if they sent a letter out to 100k people with hopes that 1% will be dumb enough to pay them. that would be 5million right there. pretty damn good if you ask me.

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#30

10-29-2003, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by RocHard
Acacia does seem to be going after affiliates. I got a nice letter from them just yesterday on my little free site.

I heard you got a phone call from them today too ....

Buwahahahahahahaha .... I love live tech support at my sponsors ...
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#31

10-29-2003, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by bighitter

I KNOW WITH 100% CERTAINTY

Have you called norman about this?

Last I talked to him he only had 5 phone calls.

He is looking for 25 so he has a case against acacia.
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