Time to fight back...ALL TGPS READ THIS

Nafa is the North American Free Trade Agreement which is more along the lines of trade, an example is the current dispute between our countries to do with softwood lumber. Good thinking though. I'm thinking of sending them a letter back when I get mine asking them for money to settle out of court with me. A little legal phrase on the top makes in unusable in court. Our small claims courts go up to 4,000 Canadian so I just might ask for some money for my inconvience.

Yeah, I'm new. In fact I just signed up about ten minutes ago. I'm a little lost about this Acacia thing. I do however happen to be a thrid year law student, and my best friend is a practicing attorney whos a handled a few trademark/copyright suits. I haven't really had time to look through this whole thread BUT if someones got an actual pleading thats been filed R.E. this issue I'd like to see it. I've had a few legal skirmishes myself with Cybration Inc. over ownership and "fair use" of media, so I might be able to toss in a few opinions.

Welcome!

I am trying to consolidate the Q&A about Acacia into this thread:
FTP's Acacia FAQ

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=190214




Fight the Patent!

quote:
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Originally posted by WendyB


It's no secret I think you (choker) are a great idea man, but I do admit to a personal distaste for you.
However I would respectfully suggest you are out of your league on this one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


My comment was specifically directed at Choker, and not inclusive or reflective of anyone else.

When one puts himself in a position as the collector of money, in the form of donations, they are subject to potentially an enormous amount of documentation, reporting and accountability.

As I see it, choker has stated he is currently in a position where he is in immediate need for legal advice. This raises the potential appearance of there being a conflict of interest, if choker is the chief collector.

Yes, when someone proposes to collect donations for a group legal representation fund, using an Espassport account, most certainly screams out to be this person is out of their league.

UCumSeeMe.com Marketing will donate to this endeavour.

We received a letter from those guys as well and my immediate thought was, "Go Fuck Yourselves" (it's still my immediate thought by the way).

Audio/Video data was being transmitted back in the 80's when I had my Commodore 64. How the hell can these fuckers say they have a patent on this technology? This patent shit is getting out of hand now.

Might have to start filing patents ourselves. I think we'll start off with a patent for breathing. Every time you take a breath you have to pay us! We'll get one for sex as well. Whenever you fuck you'll have to pay us!!!

Hey Acacia, if you're reading this . We used your letter as toilet paper (kinda abrasive on the ass ya know).


Penn

Choker, I'm with you all the way.
(Choker user name: stuart19)

Good idea choker.

There is no way Acacia can charge the sponsors for infringing, then go to affiliates who link there and say they are infringing too..

clearly its double dipping, and the people linking aren't infringing on shit, i would find everyone you know who doesnt serve video and get their packets to a lawyer, embarass the shit out of Acacia.

Luke Lirot of Tampa.

I agree with KRL's response. Judging from KRL's response, he appears to be one who has real business world experience and understands the importance of crossing the T's and dotting the I's while operating and defending your business.

Thank you KRL

IMO, based on comments by Rob Berman during the D$ show, Acacia does not view the affiliate relationship in the same way as most of us do.

To Acacia, if you own your own business, and you are sending traffic to a program, then you are not acting in the LEGAL DEFINITION of "affiliate". You are an independant contractor and therefore an acceptable licensing target, and that would not be "double dipping".

The exception to this would be the Hustler settlement, which characterizes their "affiliates" in a way that protects them from having to license a second time for sending traffic exclusively to Hustler. That settlement only covers folks sending traffic to Hustler though.

None of what Acacia has done or continues to do is very clear and intelligible, so it is very obvious why so many, including myself, are entirely confused by their actions.

if this paid legal members area is primarly for 1st ad. issues such as obscenity, freedom of speach, ect. and we have access to someone along the lines of Webattorney, then I would be all for this.
One can never have enough legal advice. (despite what I said about lawyers earlier) Since those topics would be very pressing issues anyways. Only thing Acacia can do it cost me money, the people that will go after me for the issues I mentioned want me in jail.

So what would this legal area be primarly for. Since web attorney is not in the patent field and all?

I found a great article about Acacia at The Thinkreel board. Travis (the author) thinks Acacia will be out of business soon because its all o lot of swank what they are doing.
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http://www.thinkreel.com/showthread....&threadid=2899
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So, about my Acacia packet. (very long)
So, I received my little packet from Acacia Media Technologies Corporation a few days ago. Thrilling. For those of you that have not had the pleasure of receiving such a prize, I?ll share it with you. First let me say that I am not a huge player in the pornography industry, I run one AVS site, mainly for fun and because my good friend Ryan (of www.madsights.com) sort of got me into it. My real job is Vice President of Ballyhoo Group and President/CEO of VCNO, Inc. Both elevated technology corporations based in South Florida. I?m also on the Board of Directors of a large multimedia corporation in New York, NY (which I won?t list for reasons, but I?m sure you could figure out).

The cover letter is somewhat harsh, in my opinion. It states that they own 5 US Patents in their ?portfolio? and 17 International Patents covering the transmission and receipt of digital audio and video content via the internet.

It goes on to explain that since they?re such generally nice and generous citizens, they will waive substantial past infringement and license their patents at their existing introductory royalty rates. Can you believe that? That line, as far as I?m concerned, confirms that this is a frivolous attempt at gaining cash settlements from a small group of industry professionals.

I?ve been doing some research on this. I looked up their patents which I assumed would be filled with tech jargon in an attempt to mislead the patent offices. This, of course, was correct.

The problem with the patent system today, especially the USPO, is that these people simply do not understand the technology. I?m completely confident I could patent ?the Internet? if I managed to fill it with enough technology terminology and made it as hard as possible to understand. This system needs to change if we?re to get away from this insanity we?re seeing.

For example, their patent (Patent # 6144702) states:

?A system of distributing video and/or audio information employs digital signal processing to achieve high rates of data compression.?

It goes on in the claims to explain very broadly how this works. It also includes a lot of information regarding delivery and storage, such as ?a source material library storing a portion of at least one data file.?

The scope of these extensive papers is so perverse that the cable or satellite television you probably have the background in your room right this very second, is in fact breaking the law according to Acacia.

Cable television IS distributed video and/or audio information which uses digital signal processing to achieve high rates of data compression.

Additionally, don?t forget the method of storing data for playback.

As affirmed in their patent: ?At the present time [November 7, 2000], only a video cassette recorder (VCR) or a laser disk player (LDP) allow a viewer to enjoy control over selection of particular audio/video material. Using either a VCR or an LDP requires the viewer to obtain a video tape either by rental or by purchase. Remote accessing of the material has not yet been integrated into an efficient system.?

Hmm? This is interesting. I know of 3 digital television providers in Norway alone that offer on-demand video for digital cable consumers. Under their International Patents, this would clearly be infringement.

TiVo may also be under this. Crazy isn't it? Almost every media technology involving our television systems is at work here. Unless of course you're still using "rabbit-ears" which I have a feeling some of you are.

Of course there?s the obvious, MSNBC, CNN, Microsoft, Akamai, Viacom, and on and on and on.

So what?s the problem and the moral of this article?

The problem is the USPO is currently BROKEN. They simply do not have the resources to scrutinize the real technology at labor in most of these patents. Therefore, it?s possible to get a patent for almost anything in internet technology if you utilize precise doublespeak.

Why doesn?t Acacia go after some of this giants that are racking up the infringement violations by the millions. Akamai does literally millions of streams every month. Not only are they using encoding/compression to produce higher data transfer, but they?re also using storage solutions. This is completely against Acacia?s patents.

Let me tell you why.

Acacia lists a few companies in their opening letter that have purchased license agreements from them. Are these companies paying millions of dollars? No.

But why not? Why, if these patents are so strong, can?t Acacia just say, ?we want $500 million a year for a license or you must stop all processes that involve patent infringement.?

Because if they said that, the big guns would load up, cock, and fire a barrage of law expenses that Acacia wouldn?t be able to handle.

Why don?t know (correct me if I?m wrong, please) what LFP, Inc. (Hustler), Trade News Corporation, Matrix Content, Vivid Pictures, or Platinum eMedia have paid for this license.

If it were me, I would go ahead and save myself the outstanding court costs and offer them a price I know they can afford. Let?s take LFP, for example.

If I go to LFP and claim patent infringement for streaming media (seems crazy when you say it, doesn?t it?) requesting $1 Million, they?re going to take me to court. Even if it costs them $950,000 in court costs, it?s still worth it for them. Now I have no money, and if the court rules against me, I?m screwed.

But if I offer it to them for an easy $10,000, they?ll jump, just to make it go away. Now I have $10k in my pocket, but MUCH more important, I can send letters to 500 webmasters that says Vivid Pictures agrees that this is for real. That?s worth a lot more than $10k. Even if I sold it to them for $1. You dig?

Moving forward?

I?ve written an email to a very good friend of mine, who knows my congressman well. I?m also trying to get in touch with some people in the California government, to terminate this problem (haha). Unfortunately, I imagine California is going to stick by this, because they?re like their own county, it?s ridiculous.

I?ve contacted my on-staff lawyer and she is going over everything. I should have a ton of information from her later this week and we?ll see what comes up.

I will keep you posted. Thanks for reading this.
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http://www.thinkreel.com/showthread....&threadid=2899
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I just wanted to share this great article with everyone here at GFY. Hope you enjoyed reading it as much as I did!

Pete

Thank you pete for taking the time to research deeper. I am always very impressed when I see people willing to do a little homework, before flapping their gums.

You have made my day!

Again, thanks

I am trying to read through all these posts but Choker if you would like to reach me my cell is 949-510-7201..

Instead of speculating - go into action. Here are some things you can do to get answers. If you ever have to goto court you'll have a record of what certain entities have said to you.

A) Send an email to your billing companies and Sponsors with these questions:

1) In the terms of our contract are you allowed to give my personal information to a third party?
2) Have you given my personal information to a third party in any way, ever?
3) If you have given my personal information to a third party why? Who did you give it to?
4) If you have given my personal information to a third party I request contact information for the third party.

* Make sure they answer these questions point by point. If you ever goto court you'll have written documentation of what these entities told you regarding your personal information with them.

B) Research what happened with Holio. There case was DISMISSED.. which means that it's possible Acacia dropped it. Why would Acacia do that? Does Holio have a case pending against Acacia in a California court? What are the claims being made in that case? Is Acacia being sued by Holio for breaking a deal? I don't believe Holio has signed a license with Acacia so what deal has been broken, if any?

C) After you start getting results from the different processors and sponsors... post the results on here.

Remember.. this doesn't all come down to one person or company. There are a few involved and we need answers and doing what I detail above will help us all start getting some answers.

Holio is a content producer. They don't offer any video previews from their site.

Maybe that's why things got dismissed.

Their case won't apply to most other allegedly claim infringers unless they fall into the same category.


Fight the Patent!

Does Holio have a case against Acacia in a California court?

As I said to you personally...Whenever you come up with the configuration, you know where to get in touch with me. I'm in for whatever it takes. To everyone else out there...this is for the cause and OUR hard work...I'll be back in Florida on the 31st of October....Let me know ASAP if you need some cash

Lots of phone calls later.... close to setting something up that will appeal to everyone that involves existing groups. Care has to be taken to avoid anti-trust laws. Everyone keep watch a solution is being worked on. Thanks

Wendy you need to pay attention to this. I'm only going to address this one time. So get this thru your thick scull now.

Do not bring your beef with me over being blacklisted into this thread. Do not attempt to hijack or harm this cause in any way. You are treading on extremely dangerous ground now. Everyone is behind this effort regardless of any beefs they have with me now or in the past. Here you even see PennELess willing to pony up money to me. Do a search, him and I have a history of mutual hate and fights. But this is a cause that affects us all. If you try to attack my credibility or derail this cause, I can pretty much guarantee you that someone, somebody will put you out of this business so fast your head will spin. Not threatening you, just telling you the facts. Do not try to attack my credibility or this cause again. Consider this your final warning on this matter. You are not just fucking with me now, you are fucking with everyone that has a online adult business. Fool

Get a grip choker!
As I stated before, you are a good idea man.
This as most posting and reading here are well aware this issue has the possibility of effecting a significant percentage of site owners.

1. What I am questioning is your method of accounting.
2. What type entity do you propose to form?
3. What are the initial costs projected for start-up?
4. What administrative fees and or salaries do you project.
5. Are you proposing to obtain a single law firm or provide legal assistance grants on a case by case basis.

I applaud your effort and let's get it done attitude.

I again believe this is a legitimate question. Do you feel there is a possibility of there being a conflict of interest, due to your already having received one the infamous dreaded letter?

This is not me accusing you of any wrong doing, however suggesting you would not want the appearance of any impropriety.

Wouldn't a trust account set-up at a bank in the name of the entity be a more respected option than holding donations/funds in espassport or paypal?

... ( cliff notes version ) along with anybody else providing a link on the internet to any entity providing video content.

It was not dismissed. It was dismissed without prejudice. Acacia could have, if they wanted, refiled the same exact suit against Holio.

You guys are reading way too much into the Holio case when it shouldn't be the focus of anything.

You're WRONG FATPad.. you obviously haven't looked at their pending case in Los Angeles have you? Do your homework and get the real picture. Put two and two together. Acacia could have DROPPED the case against Holio.. why would they? Look at the Los Angeles court case where Holio has filed against Acacia. I'm pretty sure it's the L.A. courthouse.

You are not kidding avoiding anti-trust laws....I spoke with some knowledgable people already and they said this is what needs to be looked into....Looks like we are on the same page....More to come

choker take a look at this
http://www.mapnp.org/library/strt_or...m#anchor677527

you might find some information worth considering

Ok, we cannot start a organization with the only goal being to fight Aacia. This would probably violate anti-trust laws.

What we need and have needed for a long time is a industry trade association. There is already one formed. Now it's just a matter of brainstorming to figure out how to make it all come together.

How do people feel about belonging to a association with voting rights determined by how much you contribute? The association can choose to fund whatever causes it's members decide on.

Actually there is a case pending against ACACIA here in California. In the Santa Ana Court. HomeGrownVideo.com and several other organizations have banned together to battle these people. You can get more information on the case and joining up to mount a defense here http://www.impai.org/onlineindustry.html

In fact they are also suing ACACIA for harrasment, and several other travesties of justice. Though hitting them from multiple fronts would be a great idea and could cause them to spread their financial resources thinly in an attempt to defend themselves.

What is scary is that orgs like Larry Flint Productions who owns Vivid and VCA along with Hustler have signed the agreement with them. What makes this scary is that Larry Flint, would fight anyone at anytime, so why did he decide to just sign.

Anti-trust only applies in business. The only thing about setting up an organization to battle one thing is that once the war is over there is no longer a real use for the organization.

was cool until you just said that. That is to open for certain people to control everything with funds, while keeping the little guys squashed.

So basically the power of your voice depends on how much money you have? Not good. It will be owned by those with deep pockets.

Flynt settled because they did not feel like spending the money to defend themselves and they got offered a sweetheart deal. Nothing disturbing and scary about that at all.

That was their business decision.

Our decision is a business decision too. We don't think the patent is valid and we don't think Acacia should be able to take 150 to 200 million per year out of our industry with an invalid and non applicable patent.

We are always available to answer questions. Email me your phone number and we will call.

timlake AT homegrownvideo.com

No, not on how much money you have. But on how much money you contribute to the organization. Should the same guy who gives $100 have the same weight when voting on a issue as the guy who gave $10000? What I am proposing is a democratic solution. But not all votes can be equal. If we say set this in $100 increments. A guy who contributes $100 gets a vote of 1. A guy who contributes $1000 gets 10 votes. Remember the goal here is to get EVERYONE in this business on board. What incentive to get big contributions from big players would their be if we do not do this?

If anyone has a better idea please put it forward.

On the same token, if a big player IE Maxcash were to contribute only $100, then they would only have 1 vote. the same influence as joestgp who also paid $100.

Take into consideration this is just my idea on how to do this. I think pretty much everyone agrees that the association needs to run itself, vote on issues and funding. The only question is how.

Post a link to the information on the Holio case against Acacia.

I'm still in and I really think this is the best idea. Think of a Corp, the more shares you own, the more votes you control, that's all this idea is.

1 share = $100 = 1 vote.

I still like the idea and am behind you 100%

Choker,

Okay.... I lied that I would just stay on the side. Can I ask what your intentions are to deal with the letter many of us TGP owners got? I list very few vids, so it's nothing to me to just delete them and go on about my business. But, we've already got this crap letter in hand and one way or another we have to deal with it whether it is just shitcanning it in File 13... forking over money for absolutely no reason except to not have to deal with it... or pony up money as a group and let someone disprove this fictitious *link* theory. And that's what I think it is... a fictitious ploy by a desperate company that is throwing ethics out of the window. There is absolutely no way Acacia can make linking to a site that has audio/videos stick in any sense of the law when it comes to their so-called patents as indirectly the whole internet is liable in that case. The cases at IMPA are not related to this as far as I know.

If you are like me, my time doesn't permit me to get involved in anything more than my own business obligations. It happens to be that this Acacia thing is in those obligations that I will have to take care of.

I just want to say that Spike and I have had a chance to speak with Choker today. He brought up many good points to which we will address tomorrow. Be rest assured we will endeavor to answer all questions asap.

if the situation becomes unbareable for TGPs count me in!

Not being a lawyer, I can't give advice on legal issues. But I can tell you what I am going to do about the letter............

I am not going to reply to it. IMO it is nothing more than Acacia fishing to see who replies. It is in my best interests that the existing lawsuits be fought sucessfully. If I join a organization that decides to contribute LEGALLY to research that other members can use, then I am not directly funding someones defense, thus not in violation of anti-trust laws. At least this is what has been explained to me. We need a trade association in this business that can together look out for our best interests. As others have pointed out, there are more sharks in the water.

Sorry for being elussive, but until more is explained to me about possible anti-trust laws, I am hesitant to post on this.

choker, my ICQ is 52741957

-brandon

This is the fucked up part. We can't do this. This disproval could only be used in one case. At a cost of about $10000 I am told. This is what I have been told. This anti-trust shit seems to throw a lot of wrenches into the situation.

It's public record Mr. Fiction. Check the court dockets. If you're to lazy then wait until next week and watch GFY.

I don't need to prove myself over and over again.. it's time you did some work of your own Mr. Fiction instead of Monday night quarterbacking everyone else.

why dose this man have to fight every battle for adult? I'll agree I was a little let down to hear he signed up... but who better of a person to get to sign up than Larry Flynt, with his past in the court rooms? Hell Acrapica probally paid him to sign him up



LF has a long history of fighting so what not offer him such a sweet heart deal and have people wonder the same thing you are now.. Makes perfect sense to me.

I understand the thoughts. Hopefully some good information is to follow. I think everyone knows that posting on this board has it's downfalls as there is no telling who is watching it and might pre-empt a lawsuit just to prove a point. I've always run a clean site(it's clickable to the roaches) and to have someone attempt to run over me just fucking sucks. I guess some consider it as business as usual.

If I may offer a suggestion:

Someone who has received a "final notice" hire an attorney to respond to Acacia to ask what are the specific infringements based upon this test case.

It may take 5-7 hours of legal counsel time to get the attorney up to speed, (referencing FTP's Acacia FAQ: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=190214) and the back and forth chatter between the attorney and Acacia.

Maybe start a mini-fund... someone who wishes to be the test case knowing that this may potentially "red flag" them with Acacia... have a small amount of money raised by the group to get some solid answers.

Based on the outcome of this inquiry, you will know better about what kind of defense it will take.

You may not need an IP attorney for this inquiry stage.. just be able to explain your business and some of Acacia's claims, look at the licensing agreements, etc... someone's corporate attorney should suffice.

I have a patent attorney that is volunteering his time to me, so I will consult with him on this issue, which combined with a corporate attorney, you should be able to get some answers.

Without any facts, everyone's in the dark about how to defend.


Fight the Patent!

Ps. on the anti-trust issue... you found out the same reasons why I always state i am fighting against patent abuse cases, not fighting specifically about Acacia.... ain't the law complicated?

well ... in the FWIW cat:

"on" the hyperlink: British Telecom "owns" hyperlinks - NOT and NOT.

as for "encouraging infringement": it at least doesn't work in copyrighted material matters ( i think this one has been posted already, but what the hell ) --Scientologists lose hyperlink case.

now on the "interesting" side of things ... why is it if i go to this page on acacia's web site and open the Hustler Signs PDF file it opens in adobe acrobat in a browser window ? which seems to be "encouraging infringement" of this patent held by Eolas technology. specifically:
... disable the plug-in architecture that so many Web users depend on for experiencing dynamically driven content via technologies like Adobe's Acrobat (for PDF files), Apple's QuickTime, Macromedia's Flash, RealNetworks' Real Player, and Sun's Java Virtual Machine.

appears acacia isn't that concerned with "encouraging infringment" on the patents of others. just their own ...

ahhahahahh... excellent point! By viewing the PDF from their website, Acacia is a contributory infringer to the Eolas patent....which M$ lost the court case and as you have been reading, besides having to pay like $531M in damages, they are removing ability to hahahahaha applications within the browser. (the easy workaround is to just make the external app launch, but there is a patent on this function as well!)

Conspiracy theorists ponder this: what if this was a way that m$ could now charge plugin companies like Macromedia and Real? That the next release of IE would have Windows Media hahahahahaed witin the browser, so as to not be hahahahahaed with the web page? What if M$ licensed Eolas patent, and convinced Eolas to not license the patent to other browsers?

Small diversion, now back to your regulary scheduled thread...


Fight the Patent!

I don't get the whole anti-trust thing. If webmasters band together to fight Acacia or other companies like them, is that more of a coalition? It is not the every webmaster, or even every adult webmaster joining to fight. Right now it is the adult webmaster community under fire, pretty soon the poor Star Wars Kid will get his Acacia package.