12clicks vs. Fight The Patent

round 150!

For those that haven't been following the threads and news about Acacia, let me briefly bring you up to speed so you can understand why the thread topic is titled the way it is.

Acacia Research (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com) has some patents (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/patents.htm) that claim essentially to owning the process of downloading audio or video files from a web server.

They sent out "information packets" to many companies, some adult, some to schools and universities.

They are demanding license fees (http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/te...t_adultent.htm) for payment of using their "patent".

Some adult websites have licensed their patent (see Press Releases at http://www.acaciatechnologies.com) while others have joined together to form the IMPA (http://www.impai.org) and to also become defendants in litigation.

FightThePatent.com (http://www.FightThePatent.com) was formed on August 12th as a one-man crusade to bring awareness to these issues and to assist the defendants to find prior art (with no compensation).

Many webmasters jumped into the search for prior art, using this page http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Searching.html to help find stuff to look for, and http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Squirt.html to see what prior art examples were posted.

FightThePatent.com has now broadened its scope to propose the start of Fight the Patent Foundation ("FTPF")(http://www.FightThePatent.com/go) to help fight against patent abuse.






And now that you have been brought up to speed.......


Acacia's licensing structure includes a minimum payment of $1,500/year if you make likess than $50K/year. If you make more, then the figure is like 2% of GROSS.

In licensing their patent, you have to open your books to them so they can verify your GROSS sales. When you sign the license agreement, there is a provision that states if the patent is found invalid, YOU DON"T GET YOUR MONEY BACK.

Having someone take 2% of your GROSS REVENUE is exactly like a tax...except you know the tax by the government is legit (whether you agree with it or not is a separate story). The Constitution created the provisions to start the Patent Office and Congress created Patent Laws. So companies like Acacia are enforcing their rights to (abuse) patent and civil law to enforce their claims.


What's of greater concern, besides my opinion that the patent is invalid given prior art, is that there are other patent holders in this space making similar claims with their patents (USA VIDEO, SIGHTSOUND).

If each one of these companies came around to charge 2%, along with other patent holders like patents on shopping carts, e-commerce, exit consoles, etc.... the resulting total tax would put the current corporate tax structure to shame.

At least with the IRS, you can deduct expenses to reduce your tax base.. .with these licensing fees, it's off the top. So 2% of GROSS could actually be like 20% of NET (or higher).

Do you want to pay more "taxes"?

If this makes you mad, join IMPA as a member... it's an adult industry organization that is a watchdog on many issues that concern webmasters, with patents being one of them.

Pledge $100 or more support for FTFP to become an ACLU-like organization that fights against patent abuse.


Fight the Patent!

Lets just end the madness.

how?


-brandon

If I am going to make a donation to the cause of fighting Acacia (and I have), I fail to see why I would choose to donate to some other source/organization when I can (and did) just as easily donate directly to the IMPA's fund. Especially when I see that less than 20% of the donated money to this FTP site is going to actually reach the IMPA.


I'm thinking the best bet here is still to donate directly to the IMPA, period. No disrespect intended to anyone, but I see these alternate donation sources as a complication in what should be uncomplicated. Right now I am certain that 100% of my donation is being used to fight Acacia, because I dontated to the *official* fund. If I am in error, please tell me how.

Did you know that IMPA is a membership-based association that looks after all kinds of issues for webmasters?

Patents are just one, but they are also looking into the trademarking of "virtual sex" by a company.

Since you donated to IMPA, i am sure that you got your Member's Card?

Here is their join form:
http://www.impai.org/join.html

Most webmasters would fit in the $100/year category.

The money to IMPA doesn't go towards the defendants to pay for attorneys and such, it goes to IMPA activities like paying for prior art searches, research on this "virtual sex" trademark, etc.

There is a defense fund that goes to paying for actual defense costs.

I have a proposal to fight against patent abuse, Acacia is just one company, there are many more.

Who is to say that you can't contribute to both? I am seeking 2,500 webmasters to make a one-time pledge of $100 to help start FTPF. I also support IMPA and other adult industry organizations, that's why I am sharing what I have been able to bring together.


If you have read in the previous pages what I intend to do, you will see it is different than IMPA, while true, we do overlap on patents, and we work together.


I understand that if you just have $100 bucks in your pocket, the decision of who to give it to...

If you believe IMPA will do a better job than FTPF, then give it to them. If you have $200 in your pocket to give, then support both.


-brandon

This is a repost from me in response to someone asking what they can do to fight against acacia:


Defense Fund:

IMPA has pulled together the current defendants to share a common pool of money to pay for attorney expenses. The buy-in is a few thousand a month. Since there are 11 defendants, each one gets a chance at bat. The money put in goes towards dealing with your individual correspondance with Acacia and the Defense Team, as well as money to fund the first people's whack at bat. Should the first batter strike out, there is a second batter, and so on. I feel that the Defense Team has a solid case against the patent claims. People like me and all the great volunteer searches are still looking, there is always a need for that gold nugget in the pile of rubble.

If you have been served with the last notice... you have the following choices:

1) hide out (especially if they addressed you to a PO box, or some odd mailing address that clearly shows they didn't do their research)

2) pay the license - you have until Nov. 30th.. plenty of time to see what happens in the next couple of weeks, time to save up money, etc.

3) contribute a few thousand a month to the Defense Fund. If you make over 100K per year, your minimum Acacia license fee is $5k- $10K due up front, with additional percentages, etc. Pay a few thousand a month into the Defense Fund to get yourself covered by the Defense Team attornies as well as helping to fund the peope who are already ahead of you.

Contact: spike -at- homegrownvideo.com


IMPA:

IMPA is an association that is a watchdog for all kinds of issues that pertain to webmasters. Currently, IMPA is focused on patents, best practices (COPA, 2257), and the trademarking of the term "virtual sex".

IMPA has a membership fee (http://www.impai.org/join.html)..most would fit in at the $100/year. IMPA membership money goes towards funding activities to spotlight and target issues that affect webmasters.


Fight The Patent Foundation ("FTPF"):

FTPF will be a non-profit (501c3) organization that focuses only on patents. It will operate like the ACLU, to provide companies faced with a patent abuse claim with defense attorneys, as well as expert witnesses and prior art. FTPF's charter is to use the 'pay it forward' concept to motiviate expert witnesses to come forward to provide testimony, critical to support the prior art finds. FTPF will also use a grassroots approach to finding prior art by opening up a system where people can submit prior art leads, and get rated on their finds to earn rewards.

FTPF is currently looking for 2,500 webmasters to pledge $100 each. No money is collected until the pledge total reaches over $250,000.

More info at http://www.FightThePatent.com/go

Acacia is just the first company to be wield patents to the adult industry. There are many more companies with audio/video patents, as well as other patents that will affect this industry. Patent holders with Acacia-like business plans could come from WITHIN the industry.

This is the new business model that some feel is a great way to make money, without ever making a product, without delivering a service, and without developing a company.

The big players have settled....proving that there is no community? I would disagree...and I hope that the rest of the webmasters who haven't settled can band together to show community.

If you have money and want to fight, i suggest donating to the Defense Fund so you can get yourself legal protection.

For others with not as deep pockets, join IMPA and pledge to FTPF. It's a small contribution, but one that becomes a bigger movement when your fellow webmasters join in as well.

-brandon

I take it nobody saw prior threads where one of the IMPA guys directly said that fightthepatent was directly involved and had found them prior art, which is his sites reason for being?

I know I remember a thread or 2 where that was brought up and backed up.

Fair enough.

Although I can see a few concerns that webmasters will have over your proposal Brandon.....

1) A donation to the IMPA puts the money to work against Acacia immediately

2) A donation to your project seems like it will just sit there until your goal is reached, whenever that may be.

3) I am sure it has crossed the minds of more than one here that as the $250k mark is approached or reached (or exceeded), what guarantee is there in place to ensure someone won't abscond with the coinola?

There were a few other little gaps I was about to mention, but I just woke up..... must have <img SRC="http://members.shaw.ca/billy1-99/pics/coffee.gif">

1) Money to IMPA goes towards maybe hiring people to do prior art against Acacia, but doesn't pay the lawyer's bills (i have talked to Far-L and Spike about these misconception issues)

2) It's a pledge. I don't accept any money.. I don't believe in just taking in money and burning through it as it comes in. I would rather have a budget and planned execution. Looking at the pledge total, yes, a LONG time before FTPF can join the fight.

3) Translation: will i just run off to the caribbean with the money?

I won't.... and i will address the credibility issue when the pledge drive starts to reach the goal. there will be known or adult industry credible people involved to help give that assurance that I am doing what I am saying. Besides $250K doesn't go that far.


Right now, it doesn't cost you anything to pledge, and there is nothing for people to take and run. I burning through my own money in being involved in this fight right now.


-brandon

Yes, thanks for bringing that up. Far-L and Spike have posted numerous times their support for FTPF.

HomeGrownVideo has just made a pledge to FTPF, and Far-L offered his words of support at:

http://www.fightthepatent.com/v2/Fou...dorsements.php



-brandon

I'd much rather give my money directly to the IMPA.

Sounds great!

You can either donate to them via this page:
http://www.impai.org/fund.html

and/or join as a member to the Association at:
http://www.impai.org/join.html




-brandon

Already have. Shall be making a more substantial move in the next few weeks. You heard it first here.

You can consider yourself the winner when the pledge counter doesn't reach the pledge goal. ANd what a huge disservice you would have been involved with in doing so, because my mission and my methods are true.

You have yet and will never be able to expose me for whatever you think I am.

Yes, you never said "Scam" or "scam artist", you said you expose people and you will expose me... It's not a hard leap of thought to wonder what kind of "exposing" you do.. most people "expose" frauds and scams.

I doubt your are trying to "expose" me as a good guy.... I let my answers and actions do that.

You never objected to the word "scam" or "Scam artist" in my first post, so you naturally agreed to those terms by your first post.

So, any questions you have to further your efforts to try and expose me? Try to be specific.


-brandon

sure assclown, I'll keep this thread alive for you.

How will anyone giving you money directly help stop acacia?

1) now, now, that's name calling

2) I know you care about this Acacia issue and don't want to see your fellow webmasters be stuck paying a license for a bogus patent claim. And I also know that you have seen alot of people trying to scam webmasters, so your automatic distrust of anyone "looking for a handout".

3) Right now, i am only accepting pledges. Once the 250K pledge total has been reached, then the pledges will be converted to actual donations (with details about that process already answered, so moving on).

So, once I have the actual 250K in the bank is where the answer to your question begins.

Assuming that the 11 defendants are still in court and Acacia is still suing people:

-Raise additional money from mainstream companies to fill the warchest (250K is not enough, but it's a start to impress mainstream companies to contribute further).

-Offer defense attorney assistance to webmasters that want to fight aginst the claims, much like ACLU. Offer defense assistance to current defendants in the form of paying for attorney time, providing additional attorneys, providing prior art, etc.

-start a grassroots prior art search effort that allows people to submit leads to a website and get rated/ get points for their finds, and get prizes/cash

-Attract media attention to the issues

-Start the 'Pay it forward' model to find expert witnesses and motive them to testify by being compensated by the Foundation making a donation to their favorite charity in their name.

-petition the USPTO to invalidate the patent directly with them with a team of attorneys (paid and volunteer).


-continue to post on message boards to bring awareness, advocacy, and information.




-brandon

All of these posts are my answers to how to fight against patent abuse cases like Acacia.

Any other questions by anyone?


-brandon

12clicks, have I answered your questions satisfactorly?

Have you any proof that anything I have said hides something that you need to expose?

I welcome your $100 pledge and extend out my hand to shake your hand if you are able to come to the conclusion that there is nothing to expose with me and my efforts other than someone who truly wants to help webmasters defend their rights to do business, free of bad patent licensing schemes.


-brandon

My question: Can we see a screenshot, or better yet a working version of SpokenMessages at a temporarily used URL?

As of Aug 12, i took down the website. I have also disconnected the one phone line to the IVR at the hosting provider due to this Acacia issue potentially taking months or years to straighten out.

I had to do this in order to be vocal about fighting against patent abuse cases, otherwise I would get one of those information packets.

Why do you want me to show you a working version of a system that allegedly infringes upon Acacia's patents?


Fight the Patent!

Now I have not been reading this entire thread, but why not just join forces with the impa and not have a totally separate single man interest group?

Congrats for making it through the entire thread, i realize i type long posts, so I will try to make this shorter.

IMPA is an adult organization, an association with a membership structure

FTPF is to be a non-profit organization with an altruistic method of finding prior art and looking after patent abuse cases for all webmasters (adult and mainstream). Expert witnesses are needed to back up prior art evidence. In my efforts, I have come across instances where people are too busy to care, or don't want to help "p*rn peddlers" with their issues. With my mainstream and altruistic approach, I would look to motivate them to come forward to help ANY webmaster/company. I have already convinced some expert witnesses to help the defendants due to my personal efforts in contacting them.


IMPA is looking after many issues, patents are just one of the issues.

FTPF is only focused on patent abuse cases and has an ACLU type model.

IMPA and I work together, and if/when FTPF is operational, they will work closer together.


So we do have an overlap in the patent area which is why we have such great synergy, but we have very different approaches to attacking the problems.

-brandon

since you asked, I'll give you my opinion.

1. After looking over your so called resume', You appear to be a guy who's never accomplished anything in this business who thinks he's found a way to create a job for himself out of the acacia scare.

2. You have absolutely no plan to fight acacia, you merely have a plan to collect money.

3. there is absolutely no need for you. the prior art which this defense is based on is out there, its being collected, and would have been and will continue to be whether you're here or not.

4. other then your claims of collecting prior art and "consulting" you've done nothing of substance.

5. the imaginary *other* patent abuses headed our way will be handed by professionals as they come. There's no need to fight them by giving some board hound money.

This is not the profile of someone I'd ever give money to.
sorry.

IMPA is looking after issues that relate to the adult industry.

FTPF seems to be wanting adult webmasters to pay for stopping patent abuse in any situation.

Why should we fund a group to help protect mainstreamers from patent abuse when they couldn't give a shit about us? Where is their money to help fight Acacia and put an end to this garbage?

The industry money to fight this crap should stay in the industry.

You've done a lot of good work, but I don't see any reason to help protect the rest of the world from patent abuse when for the most part, that very same rest of the world would like to see all of us shut down because they don't like us.

FTP;

I'm interested in seeing the site. A screenshot would do fine just as well..

"In Germany they first came for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me - and by that time no one was left to speak up."

-Pastor Martin Niemoller, German Protestant minister, Leader of the church's opposition to Hitler, Nazi concentration camp intern, 1937-45.

how childish.

That's nice, but it's irrelevant now.

We are not the Protestants sitting around watching the Commies get hauled away. We're the commies getting hauled away, and we're expected to protect the Protestants at a later date while splitting or forgoing our own defense.

And since this is a Q&A thread, I have a Q.

How much mainstream money has been pledged so far to FTPF?

Where besides the adult industry and GFY are you looking for funding?

Okay, so it was two Q's. It's 2 for 1 Saturday.

12clicks, are you on Acacia's payroll? From where I sit, you seem to be on a mission to DIVIDE the community rather than help unite it. FTP is no scam. I've watched the evolution of his approach from the very first day he showed up under his ASACP handle, and all he's ever done is try to HELP. What the hell have YOU done other than snipe, bitch, and smear the dude. So STFU already.

dear child, I'm always right.

oh, and also, you seem to know quite a lot about this business for a guy who's only been on this board a month and a half.

what credentials do you have to make any sort of determination about who is right? you're a babe prattling on about what you don't know.

It was a response to your statement "I don't see any reason to help protect the rest of the world from patent abuse when for the most part, that very same rest of the world would like to see all of us shut down because they don't like us."

Ok Ok, a little heavy on the schmaltz, but we're all in the same boat. This goes well beyond the adult community, and even if we beat Acacia, this issue will NOT go away for years. There are other vultures out there just like Acacia that want to put their hand in your pocket and make you either pay license fees or legal fees. How many times can you afford to pay a lawyer to answer the same damn lawsuit over and over, but with different companies? And how many license fees can you afford to pay. 2% of the gross here, another 2% there, and pretty soon, you're working for them!

If you only knew. This is neither the time or place to post a resume. And besides, why should my bona fide's influence your perception of my opinion in any way whatsoever?? Are you that easily impressed by credentials and so easily dismissive by lack of same?

Like your sig says, "When the wise man points his finger, the fool pulls it". That about sums it up.

1) You said my past accomplishments were not relevant to this discussion in a prior post, only what i intend to do to fight against acacia and what I have done to fight against acacia. My "adult industry" resume does look weak, i am not an adult webmaster, my professional resume holds its own.


2) I have answered in several posts EXACTLY my current plan to EXECUTE as well my plan to collect PLEDGES.. the two go hand in hand. How can people make pledges for something they don't know what they are pledging to?


3) True statement.. but 3 expert witnesses that I have contacted might not have come forward to help the defendants since it's "porn" related.... and some of the prior art I found and others have found may not have been found by the Defense Team. Since you appreciate facts so much.. it's a fact that the defense attorney appreciates all of our volunteer efforts.. if they had all the possible prior art, why don't they just tell us "thanks, but we have it covered?"


4) already answered. And i have given plenty of answers and the point of this discussion was to give you the opportunity to expose me as being a "fraud" or "scam". You have not succeeded. You have brought up some points about whether there is a need for FTPF or whether I should be the one to lead such a venture. But your vote doesn't count. It's the ones that pledge that believe in my mission that count. If there aren't enough of them voting for me, then the outcome will have been decided, not by your efforts to discredit me.



5) yes, the stick your head in the sand approach works wonders said Chicken Little.


6) You are entitled to your opinion so I won't be expecting you to pledge. You have failed to "Expose" me which was the opener to this conversation...



-brandon

ah yes, the lament of the nobody.

1) $0. My strategy was to first approach the adult industry, because while I am not an adult webmaster, I do have some credentials and connections to the adult industry. I felt that there would be a sense of community that webmasters would band together with FTPF and IMPA to fight against current and pending patent abuse cases.

After being able to form the 501c3 due to the startup money, I would then go to mainstream to solicit for donations for greater amounts to put into the warchest, as well as to solicit a strong Board of Directors, composed of industry leaders.

It looks to me that I have tapped out on my FTPF pledge drive within the industry... so has many have told me, I should have just gone to mainstream first......


2) I post on 3 boards and working with webmasters who support FTPF's efforts to contact their customers to help spread the word.


3) That's ok, i figured out how to answer multiple questions now by putting numbers in your post as a reference.



-brandon

Ah, you remember my first posts.. ya, i first signed on as ASACP_CTO and was posting about CP related issues, then i started up my patent abuse activism... and I changed my nick to more accurately reflect my new directions.

And while i now use the tagline of Fight The Patent! in all posts, i sign every post in this thread with my name, because what is in question is my integrity and my proposal, so it's not about some abstract idea, it is about a human being's desire to help make a difference...

12clicks stated from the beginning in his engagement with me in other threads that he exposes people. He has seen fraudsters and scamsters try to take newbie and experienced webmasters.

For a businessman that is successful and deals with webmasters of all levels, I can understand why he would take the time out of his business day to question those that are "having their handout" and looking for webmaster support.

I respect his efforts to provide scrutiny, i don't respect the name calling, nor the lack of decency to be able to back-off when all of his questions have been answered and no hint of fraud or scam can be found.

I admit when I am wrong, I apologize when i have wronged. I give closure to what i start... I expect the same from others.




-brandon

1. professional resume? I'm all ears.

2. yes, you've said, I plan to collect money so that I can go out and collect more money

3. it cost nothing to collect the prior art and you aren't the only one collecting it, just the only one trying to make a living at it.

4. that was quite the dodge. truth is, you've done nothing of consequence.

5. chicken little said the sky is falling. we hear that from lots of guys looking to make a quick buck.

6. ha, really? do you know how easy it is to collect 250k in this business? the fact that you can't is telling.

Save the wisecracks and answer the question. Since you only quote selectively, I'll repost the entire response.


If you only knew. This is neither the time or place to post a resume. And besides, why should my bona fide's influence your perception of my opinion in any way whatsoever?? Are you that easily impressed by credentials and so easily dismissive by lack of same?

Like your sig says, "When the wise man points his finger, the fool pulls it". That about sums it up.

He exposes himself. Must be a pedo.

I don't know why you waste the time letting him bring you down and diminish your efforts.

Keep up the good work, and illegitimi non carborundum!

do you never wonder why no one but your buddies disagree with me?

being wrong is a humbling experience, ergo, my arrogance.

not the time or place?
why not?
I'm sure your bona fides will not influence my perception of your opinion.

Yes, credentials explain your accomplishments. a man with accomplishments is a man to be listened to. A man who's credentials *if we only knew* is easily and rightly dismissed.

anything else?

1) Sorry, i see no need to present it at this time. Flame all you want,.

2) i said alot more than that.. seems that's all you picked up on since you don't read all my answers.

3) there are people who get paid to do prior art searches... that's who attorneys hire.. but for some reason, they seem to also want us non-professional prior-art searches to help them.. why is that? I don't know what long distance plan you use, but it does rack up the phone bill when you call people long distance, spend an hour to explain the acacia issue and get them involved.. multiply this effort and yes, the phone bills do cost money for an effort THAT I RECEIVE NO COMPENSATION.

4) in your opinion, but maybe you didn't read this from my endorsements page:

Fish & Richardson and I wish to commend your efforts with FightThePatent.com and the assistance you have provide to us in finding potential prior art. You have worked tirelessly and without compensation to help us, and we applaud your efforts.

Best wishes on your upcoming launch of the Fight The Patent Foundation.

-Todd Miller, IP Attorney at Fish & Richardson representing some defendants against Acacia



5) its good to see that you know your folklore, you must have missed the satire, just like you have missed the truth of my answers.


6) It's alot harder to convince 2,500 people to pledge $100, then it is to go to your buddies and ask them to cut a check.

Since it's SO easy, why don't you take charge of this patent fight?

Why don't YOU start an organization to fight against Acacia and other issues?

Why don't YOU use your "reputation" and "experiences" to get the industry to support YOU?

You already claim that my efforts have no place, fine, so why don't you take up where you see that I am failing?



-brandon

I'm sure with wit like this, your credentials must be stiking!

The ark was built by an amateur. It took a team of professionals to build the Titanic.

You are amazingly shallow. The only reason for me to prove anything to you vis-a-vis my background would be to show that my ego is bigger than yours. But I can see that probably is not possible. I'm done with you.

ah, like the mighty ravener, you've got a stunning resume that no one should see.

no one denies you *say* a lot.

well son, you keep telling us about your atruism, now here you are explaining why you want money.


I have the same type of thing written by the president of the United States. It's just as relevant.


no, you have to read between the lines but the truth is plain as day.


because I already have a job. I'm not an unemployeed board hound.
there is no need for you or anyone attempting to do what you do. If you are so altruistic, we'd never know your name. We know it only because you're trying to create a job for yourself.

run child. you're as relevant as your buddy.