12clicks vs. Fight The Patent

Nice , im actually very interested to see how this turns out.

Ok ill ask a ?

A webmaster does not own a signle piece of video , all he does is link to content leasing companies.. Are booth parties responsable for getting a license or are they only gonna hit programs .. cuase this would then be sorta a double jeoporty.

just wondering

12clicks can donate more than that, he has the money.

You know the jeopardy rules, you have to phrase it as a question.

besides trying to collect money and talking a good game, what have you done that directly combats acacia?
The"I'm collecting prior art" excuse is old. there's enough prior art to got to step 2. what is step 2?


thats two questions, not one. deal with it.

Another thought is what about webmasters making movie galleries.

Are they resposible for a license or is the tgp owners now responsible to get a license becuase they link to movies that some one else is providing ?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 12clicks



Oh whats this shit man .. i get to eat at champs and tanker goes to a dinner that he said was outta this world .. I see where i stand on the list..

Many webmasters have asked me that same question. They lease out video from a content provider, and they were sent the "information packets".

Information directly from Acacia is at:
http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/te...t_adultent.htm

They specifically say that:
"Our Webmaster license covers audio/video content that is accessed via the Webmaster?s web site, regardless of where the content is hosted. The royalty is based upon subscription revenues from the Webmaster?s pay sites, and exit traffic revenue from the Webmaster?s free sites that contain audio/video content."


And there is a Content Producers License, so it appears to me that they do intend to double dip.

What has been covered in the news with Hustler/Vivid, is that since they signed a license, their affiliates won't be targeted.

Berman has made comments that they could go after affiliatse because they are "contributory infringers".. in that sending traffic to a sponsor and you get commissions, so therefore you are profiting from the "use of their patent".

Most webmasters have several sponsors that they promote, so having a Hustler Banner/Affiliate link, still puts the webmaster in potential crosshairs of Acacia.

The net result of Acacia's patent tactics is to scare webmasters to only support sponsors who have signed, thus resulting in competition being knocked out by those who do sign.


-brandon

fightthepatent.com = big time scam

[QUOTE]Originally posted by localG

Originally posted by 12clicks



Oh whats this shit man .. i get to eat at champs and tanker goes to a dinner that he said was outta this world .. I see where i stand on the list..

Tanker is going to do business with me. You on the other hand only make promises.

Are you registered as a non-profit organization, and do people who donate money receive a tax write off?

** quick disclaimer **

I am not an attorney. I am a businessman and technologist

I am starting to study Patent Law so that I can take the Patent Exam. You do not need to have a law degree to take the Patent Exam, in fact, the requirement for the test is to have a technical background.

All posts are my opinions based upon facts, observations, etc. I can be wrong or misinformed, and will always be quick to admit where i was wrong, and to correct any misleading or incorrect information.

There is alot of confusion about this whole Acacia mess, sometimes I too get confused, but I have various resources to turn to find find the answers (where possible).


-brandon

This thread should be promising.

ahh dudes name is brandon, i like that

I doubt it, he already skipped my questions.

In the pledge form you write:

"20% of the gross total collected with be donated to the following organizations: ASACP and IMPA"


I can see the connection of IMPA with the fight against acacia, but I don't see the point a part of the gross total to end up on ASACP (which is a great operation, but not related). What's the purpose of it?

Can you please answer this question.

I remind you to keep your tone at a professional one, you are startig to slip into making your questions to be personal attacks.. just like how an attorney can try to paint a witness on the stand with a question, that is more like a negative comment, for which the other attorney calls for an objection.


I started my personal crusade on August 12th in creating FightThePatent.com has my way of fighting against all forms of patent abuse.. my website was never an Anti-Acacia one.. there are plenty of other companies (SightSound, USA Video ) to throw into the same pot.

My efforts were to bring awareness of the issues to people who helped created the founding technologies and to search for prior art to assist the defendants. I have a belief that patent attorneys don't make for good technology people, they understand the law, they understand litigation, they do understand computers, but they don't have a broad background to know where to be looking or how to apply the technology.

I have been involved in the computing industry for over 16 years, I was on the internet in 1989 and saw the evolution of the web first hand.

My efforts of finding prior art and helping to find expert witnesses to help testify to the prior art has benefited IMPA and the defendants.

Before August 12th, I was/am a consultant for the last 3 years since the closing of my internet startup. I am also an entrepreneur and have several seed projects in development.

My dot-com company had technology/service that I created that allowed a person to record a message over the telephone and when they ended the call, the message was automatically digitized into Windows Media Player and Real Media formats, with playback via a play button on a website.

The technology was dusted off by some Sisters of a Catholic order who wished to use technology to further their ministry. The service (http://www.SpokenMessages.com) was just about to launch and generate revenue by providing the ability for a church pastor to use a telephone to easily update his website.

When I read the news about Acacia, and then did further research, I was pissed off...and I understand the broad ramifications of what Acacia and other patent holders woud do, so I immediately shutdown the service (thus cutting off the start of a great revenue stream) and began my activism.

My wife works and she allows me to be an activist, since I no longer am generating consulting revenue or revenue from my projects, because i have spend my 50+ hours a week in contacting people, finding prior art, and posting messages to boards to help bring awareness.

Patent firms have access to many professional prior-art searchers, so it's not like they really needed my help.

But I felt paralyzed by Acacia's patent licensing approaches (i was never targeted by them, i voluntarily shutdown the service), and helpless to fight, unless I helped find sime prior art, that maybe the professional prior art searches may not have found.

So now, I have formed the concept of taking my personal crusade and creating a movement that involves other people who want to fight against patent abuse.

The ideas that go into the forming Fight the Patent Foundation ("FTPF") are based on 2 months of intensive email, fax, and phone conversations.

FTPF is step 2.

If you make digital movies, you are considered a Content Provider, and you need to pay a license.

Their patent is broken down into 2 parts the way i see it.

The content (digital audio/video) side and the distribution side.

In your example, you are the content provider, so you are "using" their patent process and therefore have to pay a license.

A website that links to your video, hosts video on their website, is assisting in distribution, so therefore they have to get a Webmaster license.

So that's why Acacia asks a content producer who their customer are (they ask for a list), so that after the content producer pays the license, then they can target the websites that use the content.


-brandon

Besides not being a question... have you any proof?


-brandon

Why are you avoiding to answer this question? Its either yes or no

I haven't fpollowed the news too much, or your work for that matter.... but someone that puts himself up front to represent us against Acacia should know better!


Didn't a representative of Acacia on D-money's show said the total opposite?

Didn't they say that it isn't legally possible to 'double dip' that they will not go after the content producers (unless they show samples on their websites) but rather fully after the sites using the pluggins/content? After all, the money lies where the memberships are made....

That would mean the same for affiliates, no double dip...



If that all changed, than please show me where

My wife works and she allows me to be an activist, since I no longer am generating consulting revenue or revenue from my projects, because i have spend my 50+ hours a week in contacting people, finding prior art, and posting messages to boards to help bring awareness.

Oh god great another guy with no money . letting his wife work to support them while he makes money on the net..



Now this is true gfy.

OK so my take here is this:

You almost launched a website, but you found out there was a company scamming webmasters. So you thought ok I can scam them to but in a way that they would send me money because it sounds good?

I'm looking at your answer to 12clicks and I don't see where you addressed his question at all.


Originally posted by 12clicks
besides trying to collect money and talking a good game, what have you done that directly combats acacia?


Have you filed any legal paperwork anywhere to combat this?

Have you filed to become a 503(c) non profit group with a mission?

Or by your response have you simply become a paid surfer to the internet?

Ok, so just to be clear, you've done nothing to fight acacia and you admit that your website was "never an Anti-Acacia one"
Why won't all the people on this board feel tricked by your actions then?
you call yourself "FightThisPatent" in a clear attempt to paint yourself as Anti-Acacia. If you are fighting ALL forms of patent abuse (as is your current story in this thread) shouldn't your name be "FightPatentAbuse"?

I think that when people realize that you're doing nothing to directly fight acacia, a whole lot of pledges will go unfilled.


Oh, and please don't impress us with all of your past successes, they're irrelevant. right now, your a guy who's wife is supporting him. I'm not impressed.

Fight the Patent Foundation does not exist at this time.

This is the process:

I put up information about the idea behind Fight The Patent Foundation. I am accepting pledges, not donations or money, but pledges if people believe in the words and descriptions of FTPF.

Once the goal of $250,000 has been reached, I will incorporate FTPF as a non-profit 501c3 organization, with bylaws, charters, etc.

I will create a new website called FightThePatent.org (not working yet) with all new information specific to the organization, and include method of payment to convert a pledge to a donation.

I will be emailing each person that the goal has been reached, and that they can voluntarily turn their pledge into a donation. I fully realize that some pledges may not turn into donations at the time that it is requested.

Donations to FTPF will be tax-deductible as described in the IRS status of filing as a 501c3.

Currently, i personally respond to each person that makes a pledge. Besides receiving a personal note of thanks, I update the pledge counter for all to see.

While the current pledge drive total is what you see below after 3 weeks, it does seem a long way off to $250,000...

If the peldge goal is not reached, then FTPF will not be formed and the pledges get thrown away.

Part of the thinking in my strategy to attract 2,500 webmaster to make a one-time pledge of $100 is that if this organization is looking to fight for all webmasters right to have audio/video then a large number of websites should be supporting it.

Also, the financial burden should be distributed to as many people as possible, to lessen the individual contribution. It is unrealisic to expect one company to drop in $50K, but of course those kinds of contributions would be welcomed.

After the FTPF has been formed, I will be excuting on the vision and doing the following:


-Very modest salary for me to do this full time (3k/month)
-Pay for Director's insurance and attract Board of Directors
-Hire some patent attorney to get involved
-Contract with a developer to build out the Prior Art search system where people can contribute leads and earn points for prizes
-Solicit mainstream companies for additional donations
-Attract Media attention
-Help any webmaster who gets served with a lawsuit in providing defense attorneys, prior art searches and expert witnesses through the 'pay it forward' concept.
-insert more stuff here.



-brandon

Whoever just sent in the pledge for $1000 with 12clicks name.. very funny.... if he were to have submitted a pledge, he would have used a better email address than @12clicks.com


-brandon

WHich question did i skip?

It does take longer to give an honest and insightful answer, then it is for you to fire off a quickie question.

-brandon

So again from your response I see you only want us to make sure you have a salary and paid health care which is a joke if you ask around as to how many webmasters actually have health care.

12clicks owns 12clicks.com maybe its real

mine


you say twice now that acacia will go after the content providers....


but I heard otherwize on the interview of ACACIA that D-Money had.

in that interview, they made a clearpoint that it was NOT possible for them, by law, to double dip... as in you cannot charge twice for the same liscence...


Therefore, they decided to go after the paysite owners.... since that's where the money goes (monthly membership) and is more profitable for them to hit at the root. If I remmember correctly, they said that content providers would not have to liscence their product since the paysite owners will already do it.... that is, unless they show samples on their websites.

Part of my pitch is that I believe there is a sense of community, that despite webmasters serving their own business needs, that there is a commonality, a comradary between competitors..which is evident in the friendly and sometimes heated engagements on the boards.

Since I am trying to pull together a larger number of adult webmasters in the spirit of community, i thought it would make sense to support adult industry organizations that are also looking out for adult webmasters interests.

I feel that due to this topic and my advocacy and vocalism, that I might be able to attract more pledges where those organizations are looking for donations.

The 2 organizations listed are ones that support the idea of FTPF and are ones that also need funding to fight the fight in the areas they have chosen.


ASACP fights against CP on the web, and part of its charter is to help show to mainstream that the adult industry cares about CP and about protecting children, and does its efforts to try and make a difference.

IMPA was formed to address all issues that affect webmasters in the adult industry... kind of like a watchdog. While fighting against patents is one of their items, they are also looking at other issues like the trademarking of the term "virtual sex" by a company.

There are 2 other organizations that I would like to include here, but they have not decided to endorse FTPF yet.


-brandon

another question...

Didn't Acacia also mention that the prior art argument was not a valid one, since they own an OPEN patent? Which they explained as a patent where they can go back and fix any 'holes' they might find later on in the patent?


Or was it that to invalidate a patent, you need to invalidate all points of the patent, where prior art is only 1 of hundreds of points?



just wondering, as I recall hearing something like that...

This is your 2nd post asking the same thing.. can you give me a break and slowdown... i have to type more words than you.


-brandon

I think that someone from IMPA could help answer this credibility issue with Brandon, since they are directly involved?

I was of the impression that donations to Impa were NOT tax deductible, is this correct?

which part of this is honest and which part is insightful:
I remind you to keep your tone at a professional one, you are startig to slip into making your questions to be personal attacks.. just like how an attorney can try to paint a witness on the stand with a question, that is more like a negative comment, for which the other attorney calls for an objection.


I started my personal crusade on August 12th in creating FightThePatent.com has my way of fighting against all forms of patent abuse.. my website was never an Anti-Acacia one.. there are plenty of other companies (SightSound, USA Video ) to throw into the same pot.

My efforts were to bring awareness of the issues to people who helped created the founding technologies and to search for prior art to assist the defendants. I have a belief that patent attorneys don't make for good technology people, they understand the law, they understand litigation, they do understand computers, but they don't have a broad background to know where to be looking or how to apply the technology.

I have been involved in the computing industry for over 16 years, I was on the internet in 1989 and saw the evolution of the web first hand.

My efforts of finding prior art and helping to find expert witnesses to help testify to the prior art has benefited IMPA and the defendants.

Before August 12th, I was/am a consultant for the last 3 years since the closing of my internet startup. I am also an entrepreneur and have several seed projects in development.

My dot-com company had technology/service that I created that allowed a person to record a message over the telephone and when they ended the call, the message was automatically digitized into Windows Media Player and Real Media formats, with playback via a play button on a website.

The technology was dusted off by some Sisters of a Catholic order who wished to use technology to further their ministry. The service (http://www.SpokenMessages.com) was just about to launch and generate revenue by providing the ability for a church pastor to use a telephone to easily update his website.

When I read the news about Acacia, and then did further research, I was pissed off...and I understand the broad ramifications of what Acacia and other patent holders woud do, so I immediately shutdown the service (thus cutting off the start of a great revenue stream) and began my activism.

My wife works and she allows me to be an activist, since I no longer am generating consulting revenue or revenue from my projects, because i have spend my 50+ hours a week in contacting people, finding prior art, and posting messages to boards to help bring awareness.

Patent firms have access to many professional prior-art searchers, so it's not like they really needed my help.

But I felt paralyzed by Acacia's patent licensing approaches (i was never targeted by them, i voluntarily shutdown the service), and helpless to fight, unless I helped find sime prior art, that maybe the professional prior art searches may not have found.

So now, I have formed the concept of taking my personal crusade and creating a movement that involves other people who want to fight against patent abuse.

The ideas that go into the forming Fight the Patent Foundation ("FTPF") are based on 2 months of intensive email, fax, and phone conversations.

FTPF is step 2.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I find that truth falls freely from the lips and all else takes time to explain.

Berman said alot of things in that program.

I had one webmaster who has the exact situation of having leased a content gallery from a content provider that paid the license and he received an information packet.

He called the content provider to see if he was covered by them, since they paid the license, and they had no clue, they told him to contact Acacia.

he contacted Acacia and didn't get a clear answer.

So I am unclear on this answer as well and Acacia is not exactly forthcoming in their answers.

In the beginning, if you recall, they wanted to charge affiliates with infringement as well.. but then after some education done by sponsors, they took that back, changed their policy to say that affiliates of sponsor that licensed was protected.

So as you can see, their story has changed, and its hard to follow what is the real story.

-brandon

So basically you are not a non-profit organization? So legally, You can make a profit off of what we pledge? Yes. So basically what insurance do we have that its accually going towards a cause? Whats your game plan, How will you fight the patent, and how will you provide insurance? I donate to charities, Why? Because they are accually doing something that is visable, I can see progress as all as read news articles which state what certain charities are doing. AND I receive a tax write off.. But in your case, I receive NO tax write off, NO insurance, or proof?

Why would anyone in there right mind send you money?

As far as I can see it thus far, You are a single guy, Who is making money by "claiming" to "fight the patent", Yet you have not done anything yet.


You have 10 seconds to respond.

You must not have read my whole post before you made your comment... I have my own consulting business that I have been running now for the last 3 years. People pay me to do work, that's how I make a living.

The development efforts in my seed startup ventures do not generate revenue at this time, but do take time to develop.

I have stated that I have stopped my consulting (which brings in revenue) and stopped my development work on new ventures (which could bring in revenue and still requires man hours to work on) in order to become an activist.

The ONLY way that I am able to devote full time attention to this effort is because my wife works.

Do you think that activists and lobbyists work for free? Do you think that long distance phone calls and hours on the phone are all free?

I have given up direct and indirect income to become involved in this fight. I have racked up direct expenses in fighting this fight.

Does this sound like a typical GFY effort?


-brandon

Try to stick to one question per post.

You are also not reading what I have been writing....

Where have i ever said that I am collecting money?

If I was accepting money as it comes in, then maybe you have some right to make the charge of being a "scam".

But, if you were reading, you will see that I don't accept any money, despite people ready to write a check.

My time and expenses in the last 2 months are paid by me, not by anyone else.... so where is the scam?


-brandon

I can answer these three together...


1) No, i am a citizen, I am not a defendant in litigation. I can't file any legal paperwork unless i have been served by Acacia.

2) You are not reading my posts, this was already answered.

3) Just answered this part in my previous post, I don't collect any money from anyone, so therefore my time is paid by me.


-brandon

1) My website has to be not specifically against Acacia, otherwise it could get me into antitrust issues... I have been told by several people and attorneys in the beginning, to be very clear that my website and my mission should not focus on just Acacia, so therefore, i say i am fighting against patent abuse cases, because Acacia is not the only one in this audio/video space.

So why just fight against one patent abuse case, when the same efforts can fight against the others?


2) What is their to trick? I have clearly stated on my website (for those read ) and in my posts (for those that read the whole thing), my exact intentions and directions. There is no mystery here... i have been forthcoming in all communciations. If the Acacia court cases are still going while FTPF is able to be formed, then my first action will be to support the defendants, doing exactly as I have already described what FTPF would do.

Are you suggesting that those that pledged that make up that counter below were all duped into pledging? Give your fellow webmasters some more credit.

3) When i first decided to come up with a name for the website, I was thinking to be cheeky with the idea like "Fight This"... but that was taken, and didn't convey my ideas.

FightThisPatent.com was available, and it worked for me.. the idea is that my website would present many different patents to "fight" against.. not focusing on just one. When i started to post on GFY, i registered that name in being consistent with the website. When talking to people on the phone, it became clear to me that Fight This Patent wasn't distinct enough... in thinking along the lines of Public Enemy's Fight the Power, i found out that FightThePatent.com was available, and thus the name change.

In hindsight, i probably should have just got a new GFY handle, but I decided to just stick with it.

I appreciate your marketing tips about what I should have called my website, but I like the name Fight The Patent..... I have stated very clearly in all aspects of communications, that FTP is not specifically Anti-Acacia.. otherwise, i could have just been FightAcacia.com since Acacia is not a trademarked name, I could have used it.. but again, that would get me into some potential legal problems.


-brandon

Where did the health care part come in? I never said anything about that... I have my own health care.

As far as being paid..... let's see..... i can continue with my consulting, make more money than what i have said i would pay myself, or give that up, so that I can do some good?

How do you think activists and lobbyists are able to fight the fight? Even artists and musicians need people to fund their efforts.

All organizations, non-profit or not, pay people to work for the organization... why did you expect that FTPF not be the same?

I don't intent to take on this movement as a hobby, it becomes a professional occupation.... Activists don't get rich in doing what they do, they do it what they do, because in their heart and in their mind, they know what is right, and to fight against what is wrong.

Maybe you are motivate by money in your decisions, but I have already demonstrated that money is not my motivation.. i have sacrificed alot for this effort to help protect YOUR rights to using audio or video.

Can you not see the irony in your attitude and in others, that the very people that I am trying to help defend, are the ones that are trying to attack me?

I am all for scrutiny and constructive criticism, i invited it here... but at the end of the day when the dust settles, will you be able to change your mind and attitude and pledge to support if I have honestly and completely explained myself?


-brandon

What Berman is referring to is what all patent holders should be doing, meaning to continually file updates to their patent. A patent holder is able to amend their patent to make it more specific... so they could take ideas that people are using and add that on to their patent, if it goes to narrow the claim, rather than broaden it.

Acacia can have all the amendments it wants, but the foundation patent is what is being challenged.. if that patent can be found to be invalidated, then everything falls down.

Prior art is needed to prove that the USPTO missed some things. It is the patent filer's job to present all prior art that they are aware of. The Patent examiner tries their own prior art search, but that doesn't mean they do an exhaustive search, in part, they take the word of the applicant that what they present was new and novel, and did document any prior art.

The problem with Acacia, is that what they INTERPRET their patent to mean today, is different than what the USPTO read.

A perfect example is my article where i poke fun at the language they use...it's a good read and shows my point about how patents can be interpreted based upon the patent language (http://www.FightThePatent.com/v2/Teleportation.html)

Another thing that FTPF will do, especially if I am able to pass the Patent Exam, is to directly petition USPTO to review "bad" patents, and present prior art to invalidate the patent.

This is key and necessary, because it's alot cheaper for everyone to have FTPF fight at the USPTO, then for defendants to pay high litigation costs to defend themselves. So much money is wasted in court costs, and the businesses don't get them money back if they successfully defend themselves..... That's why the 11 defendants who are going against Acacia are the true heroes.. the money they spend will not be recovered, and comes directly out of their profit margins.


-brandon

I admit that I am unclear on this issue because of conflicting reports.

Draw your own conclusions by reading what Acacia claims:

http://www.acaciatechnologies.com/te...t_adultent.htm

Acacia has not been responsive to webmasters who have asked the very same questions as you... They have also not responded to some questions I had asked.

It's really not in their best interest to provide information.. their tactic is one of intimdation.... they already demonstrated that they could generate $27M in licensing for V-chip before the patent claims were found invalid (Sony case).

You think maybe they are following the same strategy here? Get lots of people to license the patent.. get challenged eventually in court, after maybe months or years go by, while collecting more licenseing fees, that the court finds the patent claims to be invalid.

You think that Acacia looks at that as a defeat? In the D$ interview, he brags about their success with V-chip in how much money they made before it got knocked down.



-brandon

I speak with Spike and Far-L about these issues, since my personal efforts are directly helping their case, and the efforts of FTPF will also help all webmasters.

In many other threads, they have jumped in to show their support.

Far-L has pledged onbehalf of HomeGrownVideo in making a pledge.

While I don't post the names of those that pledge (other than Far-L right here), i do have some endorsements from people on this page:

http://www.fighthepatent.com/v2/Foun...dorsements.php

Also includes my "adult industry resume"


In reading the IMPA website, they say that donations are not tax deductible... i am not aware of how they have set up their organizations.. i just know that FTPF will be a non-profit, with donations being tax-deductible.

This is a key point for FTPF to attract larger donations from mainstream companies.

-brandon

Is there a question here?


-brandon

I was in my partner's office drinking coffee, did I win yet?

I see lots of words but no facts.