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El Demonio

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#1

For Tical: About VISA pulling out of adult

10-13-2003, 05:34 PM

For tical: about the VISA thing, i got it from no less than a BANK OWNER friend of mine in Germany, it is a fact, just sit and wait.

For January they will low the CB tolerancy to 0.5% and for April they will low it again to 0.2% leaving the adult market fucked up, as they can shutdown accounts with no warning and hold up the funds up to 180 days for topping the CB rate, so the idea is to fuck up adult industry and make money out of it, having free money for 6 months, which they will use to make more money on NYSE

Again, this is from a BANK OWNER, member of the europe banking region visa board.

What i did?, i stopped using VISA and only take master/euro dialers and direct debit, and my sales are mostly what i was making from visa, being scammed by globosale, dutchbilling, websitebilling and ginix told me a lesson. So i DO KNOW what i'm talking about. If you want to learn from this experience, fine, i'm just sharing with you for free what i paid high to learn

Remember: this is not just going to happen, IT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING RIGHT NOW

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SixNine

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#2

10-13-2003, 05:36 PM

Interesting
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#3

10-13-2003, 05:38 PM

Yeah, VISA's get-rich-quick scheme is to scam the adult paysite owners. I knew it all along!!!
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#4

10-13-2003, 05:39 PM

If this is true, why didn't Ron Caldwell say anything about this in Florida at the billing forum? He assured everyone that VISA has NO plans on pulling out of adult....So If I have a choice between the CEO of CCbill and "El Demonio" of GFY, I gotta go with the former...

Somebody go wake kimmykim up...I need her to make me feel better about this

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#5

10-13-2003, 05:43 PM

Adult internet is fucked,

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#6

10-13-2003, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by BVF
If this is true, why didn't Ron Caldwell say anything about this in Florida at the billing forum? He assured everyone that VISA has NO plans on pulling out of adult....So If I have a choice between the CEO of CCbill and "El Demonio" of GFY, I gotta go with the former...

Somebody go wake kimmykim up...I need her to make me feel better about this

Lol... (serious worried voice) You mean to tell me "El Demonio" of GFY is NOT the Walter Cronkite of Adult Billing News? Oh heavens, No!!!!! LOL

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#7

10-13-2003, 05:46 PM

Unless it comes from KimmyKim, I won't believe it
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El Demonio

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#8

10-13-2003, 05:46 PM

Do you really think that it is business for Caldwell to say this?, even if he knows it, VISA will fuck him up instantly for ruining their scheme.

get it: the surprise is the idea, war is based on deception, the more times you get fucked up by them shutting down your billing-company-of-the-season, the more money they have available to earn money with.

Again, believe what you want, January is coming soon.

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#9

10-13-2003, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by BVF
If this is true, why didn't Ron Caldwell say anything about this in Florida at the billing forum? He assured everyone that VISA has NO plans on pulling out of adult....So If I have a choice between the CEO of CCbill and "El Demonio" of GFY, I gotta go with the former...

I heard GloBill has no plans to ever charge the $750 fee too.
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#10

10-13-2003, 05:50 PM

i dont believe it.
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#11

10-13-2003, 05:51 PM

*sniff**sniff*
smells awfully bovine in here
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#12

10-13-2003, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by scoreman
*sniff**sniff*
smells awfully bovine in here

Yeah... smells so bad you can start a mushroom farm on this thread.

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#13

10-13-2003, 05:54 PM

oh so here is where this thread moved to :-)

well like i said. who knows if it's true. however, it certainly *is* in line with visa's trend of the last year or so. i dont see how anyone can deny the *possibility* of them tightening the chargeback vice even more.

but there are so many other billing options nowadays. i dont see why people are so scared the "industry is fucked" even if visa did pull out. i mean most people who have a visa also have a mastercard nowadays...a phone...or a checking account...or whatever else.

i kinda hope they do keep clamping down the vice soon. the sooner they make it clear they want out of adult for good, the sooner everyone can get properly situated with other viable billing methods instead of bowing down lower and lower to Visa's impossible demands.

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#14

10-13-2003, 06:05 PM

Well pamphage, i understood that a year ago!

fine to found someone looking at the big picture, as i posted in another thread, i already walked the way others are scared of, and it is not scary, of course i was at first, but good results started to come and i cheered up.

i'm not the kind of person that will bow to be fucked, not even when defeated, i think that a man prefers to die on his feet that live on his knees, with my actual billing i specifically requested NOT to take VISA, only master/euro and also take ACH and world wide dialers, and on this 2 former, there are no CBs!

now i can wake up every morning without worrying about the next visa move or check my email without fear of finding that my billing company has been shutdown.

hence, i'm free.

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#15

10-13-2003, 06:13 PM

BTW:, did you all knew that since Oct/1 your VISA max CB ratio is 1%. :D

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#16

10-13-2003, 06:18 PM

I heard Visa's going to invade Iraq and burn down all the oils wells so they can pay ccbill to put the fires out.

Wait, that doesn't make sense. I must be getting my stupid conspiracy theories mixed up.

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#17

10-13-2003, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by El Demonio
being scammed by globosale, dutchbilling, websitebilling and ginix

you know these don't make you look wise. Jan is less than 2 months away. When do you expect to see this 0.5% to be announced by VISA? Based on past experienced it should have already..... am i wrong?
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#18

10-13-2003, 06:43 PM

I can see VISA dropping to 0.5% in the near future, maybe not by January but I think it will surely happen.

Anyone ever used billmelater.com? I use the shit out of that to buy tons of stuff online. They need to get into the swing and maybe that can be a billing option soon.
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#19

10-13-2003, 06:49 PM

Only a matter of time.

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#20

10-13-2003, 06:59 PM

what are average non-adult CB ratios like?
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#21

10-13-2003, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by El Demonio
Well pamphage, i understood that a year ago!

fine to found someone looking at the big picture, as i posted in another thread, i already walked the way others are scared of, and it is not scary, of course i was at first, but good results started to come and i cheered up.

i'm not the kind of person that will bow to be fucked, not even when defeated, i think that a man prefers to die on his feet that live on his knees, with my actual billing i specifically requested NOT to take VISA, only master/euro and also take ACH and world wide dialers, and on this 2 former, there are no CBs!

now i can wake up every morning without worrying about the next visa move or check my email without fear of finding that my billing company has been shutdown.

hence, i'm free.

So what biller are you using now that offer master/euro & take ACH and world wide dialers?

I agree that Visa has all kinds of dubious shit up there sleeve. I wouldnt put it past them...
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#22

10-13-2003, 07:00 PM

VISA/MC and all the other bullshit transactional systems are going to be replaced with something better.

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#23

10-13-2003, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by angelsofporn
what are average non-adult CB ratios like?

Our average mainstream merchant has less than .025% chargebacks. Very low indeed.

I had a meeting with Visa (Martin Elliott) and Humboldt Bank last week and Visa has no intention of getting out of adult. They are still not happy with Free trials, cross sells etc... and know webmasters are still bending the rules. They do read these boards and have a sharp eye on adult internet.

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#24

10-13-2003, 08:04 PM

i think i'll just keep my mouth shut...

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#25

10-13-2003, 08:05 PM

hey, netbilling, do you have any idea how visa feels about extremely limited trials?

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#26

10-13-2003, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by netbilling

They do read these boards and have a sharp eye on adult internet.

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.

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#27

10-13-2003, 08:18 PM

im special

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#28

10-13-2003, 08:19 PM

ticalsux

.
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#29

10-13-2003, 08:28 PM

late night bump
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#30

10-13-2003, 08:29 PM

mansion boi

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#31

10-13-2003, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by pamphage
oh so here is where this thread moved to :-)

but there are so many other billing options nowadays. i dont see why people are so scared the "industry is fucked" even if visa did pull out. i mean most people who have a visa also have a mastercard nowadays...a phone...or a checking account...or whatever else.

Do you run a paysite? Visa is a HUGE part of billing. If you dont have visa you're going to lose a lot of money.

But that isnt the problem at hand, the problem is people advertising these paysites that have these bullshit members area's. Their main goal is to just crab that CC and go to town on it with cross sells and free trials.

Webmasters REALLY need to take a look at who they are promoting. if your pushing sites that do that "smash and grab" bullshit with the surfer's CC you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Pretty soon Visa's gonna shut the fucking door and im sure the rest will follow suit while all bad guys drive off with truckloads of money, you'll be unemployed.
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#32

10-13-2003, 08:32 PM

Hey Mitch,

Does that .025% chargeback ratio include non-adult merchants selling intangible products.

Are all non-adult merchants selling intangilbe products classified as high risk or do they have a different catagory?

What do you think of these new sites selling mp3's ie. itunes and napster. I would expect they will have a high chargeback ratio?
Kind of tough for these guys to stay under 1%???

Will Visa apply these rules fairly across the board or just target the adult industry.

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#33

10-13-2003, 08:35 PM

Very interesting
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#34

10-13-2003, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by El Demonio
BTW:, did you all knew that since Oct/1 your VISA max CB ratio is 1%. :D

Um, duh.

That's been posted so many times here since it was announced in July that it's not even news.

BTW, did YOU know that Visa Intl, NOT Visa US, still has a threshhold of 2% come January. They have not announced, and I cant see them doing so this late, the drop to 1% by the end of the year.

Looks like your friend at the bank might be misinformed.

And it's Cadwell, not Caldwell, btw.

BTW, did you know that Visa US and Visa Intl are two different sets of boards with different members? And that they generally meet twice yearly to decide on new rules, not 28 times a year or whatever your math implies?

BTW, you should get out of adult now, the sky is falling.

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#35

10-13-2003, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by netbilling

Our average mainstream merchant has less than .025% chargebacks. Very low indeed.

I had a meeting with Visa (Martin Elliott) and Humboldt Bank last week and Visa has no intention of getting out of adult. They are still not happy with Free trials, cross sells etc... and know webmasters are still bending the rules. They do read these boards and have a sharp eye on adult internet.

Mitch

Is that in reference to IPSP merchants or VISA registered merchants? I think it's fair to say IPSP merchants have been the major cause for concern over at VISA, since originally they were not subject to TMF scrutiny.

Also, I was told Humboldt was bought out by Citi and does not process high risk anymore. Deny/confirm?

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pamphage

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#36

10-13-2003, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by OneHungLo

Do you run a paysite? Visa is a HUGE part of billing. If you dont have visa you're going to lose a lot of money.

yes i do, and of course i agree with that. however that wasn't my point. my point was that IF visa pulled out completely, eventually surfers/webmasters would recover using other billing methods. of course it would suck to lose all those recurring members currently using visa. thats why i say it would be a tough 6 months or so (rough estimate). my point is, in the long run, this visa thing is just a bump in the long road of pornography. people demand porn and people will always supply it. with all this modern technology there will ALWAYS be viable billing methods. it's just that transition periods suck, and we just happen to be in the midst of one.

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#37

10-13-2003, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by MegaPussy

Is that in reference to IPSP merchants or VISA registered merchants? I think it's fair to say IPSP merchants have been the major cause for concern over at VISA, since originally they were not subject to TMF scrutiny.

Also, I was told Humboldt was bought out by Citi and does not process high risk anymore. Deny/confirm?

- Titus

Humboldt does take high volume adult accounts still with a clean processing history. We are not an IPSP. All of our merchants have their own merchant account. We did not discuss IPSPs in our meeting.

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#38

10-13-2003, 09:55 PM

interesting thread, bump

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#39

10-13-2003, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by morecash
Hey Mitch,

Does that .025% chargeback ratio include non-adult merchants selling intangible products.

Are all non-adult merchants selling intangilbe products classified as high risk or do they have a different catagory?

What do you think of these new sites selling mp3's ie. itunes and napster. I would expect they will have a high chargeback ratio?
Kind of tough for these guys to stay under 1%???

Will Visa apply these rules fairly across the board or just target the adult industry.

That ratio is for all of our mainstream but does fluctuate of course. If merchants for downloadable music scrub properly, they should not have a problem.

Mitch

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#40

10-14-2003, 02:29 AM

Maby http://www.verifiedbyvisa.com system will resolve this chargeback problem
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#41

10-14-2003, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by jonnax
Maby http://www.verifiedbyvisa.com system will resolve this chargeback problem

no
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#42

10-14-2003, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by pimplink

Yeah... smells so bad you can start a mushroom farm on this thread.

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#43

10-14-2003, 04:22 AM

I think my favorite part of this thread is the adult net being a "get rich quick" for VISA

VISA sales volume is 2.7 trillion dollars a year, finance charges alone exceed 400 billion.

The entire Adult Net billing is less that 1% of their anual finance charges.

This entire industry does not amount to a pimple of VISA's ass.

The VISA squeeze on the industry has a lot more to do with the bankruptcy relief they got from congress a few years back and "protecting" the people they make their money from than it has to do with "getting rich"

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#44

10-14-2003, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by Petr

no

Really ?

When using this system endusers can´t deny so easily they used their creditcard = lower chargebacks

Last edited by jonnax; 10-14-2003, 04:26 AM.
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#45

10-14-2003, 04:27 AM

Oh and I forgot - go get another job

The Sky is Falling

Verified by Visa protects cardholders - not merchents

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#46

10-14-2003, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by pamphage

there will ALWAYS be viable billing methods. it's just that transition periods suck, and we just happen to be in the midst of one.

Exactly...there will always be ways to peddle porn......

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#47

10-14-2003, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by jonnax

Really ?

When using this system endusers can´t deny so easily they used their creditcard = lower chargebacks

afaik VbV can't be used for adult transactions
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#48

10-14-2003, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by Petr

afaik VbV can't be used for adult transactions

I did not know that....
Do you know reason for this?
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#49

10-14-2003, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by KRL
VISA/MC and all the other bullshit transactional systems are going to be replaced with something better.

Excatly!!, go cry a river for Visa..didn't we just see, www.commchat.com here on gfy..

the world doesn't stop because of VISA. The next big thing:

Morse Code linked to your bank accout;

light b, hard double f...

remember you heard it here first

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#50

10-14-2003, 06:09 AM

My sources inside of Visa - here in Vegas - also have told me that they plan on dropping the charge back ratio to .5%. I've also been told that this will go into effect early in 2004.

All of you fuckers who have crappy member's areas with crappy content had better get with the program - quickly. If not you'll be left behind. And anyone caught jerking surfers around will also be put out of business quickly.

I'm sure that CCBill doesn't tell us every thing they hear in idle backroom discussions, and I'm sure CCBill also does not publically comment on such rumors. They have a public image to maintain, and don't wish to send the entire adult Internet industry in a tailspin with every rumor they hear.

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