The Expansion of the Patriot Act...

Fiddy

The Republicans have already blown it.

Everything will be back to normal soon.

Simple minds are easily lead to believe in anything that is popular.

Left wing propaganga like this makes me laugh, because it reminds me so much of shady preachers planting seeds of paranoia in followers minds. "Rock 'n Roll is the devil... it will disguise itself as harmless fun, until it engulfs you in a lifestyle of sex and drugs. ONLY JESUS CAN SAVE YOU MY CHILD!" ...yada yada yada

It also reminds me of Disney's Beauty and the Beast, where the ring leader of the hunt for the beast was rallying the towns people ..."He will kill your children and stomp your homes, he must be destroyed!!". A simple minded analogy of what ignorance can do.

Whether or not some of the new proposals are outrageous and unconstitutional, some people still fail to see the extremeties of these laws. If the government wants your DNA, they could already get it... a court order is about all it takes. The point of this is, to not associate yourself with the types of suspicion that causes you to be under the microscope. The government doesn't have time, money or horsepower to start probing into nonsense investigations. Maybe on a small town, local level... sure we already have corrupt asshole cops in every neighborhood, that will make your life hell if they don't like you for whatever reason. This is NOT new. I do not believe everyday, working class citizens are going to be plucked from their cozy homes, at random and stripped of their rights. We still have a judicial system in America, as corrupt and backwards as it may be at times, it still stands. Although injustices happen, they have ALWAYS happened throughout history and present day, America is not a society that tolerates gross injustices on a large scale and in recent years, greatly publicizes many of these injustices.

I have watched CourTV for several years now... I see a lot of stories and always thought fingerprints or DNA samples at BIRTH would be a great idea. Sure it might be abused in some rare instances, but abuse happens with EVERYTHING. People are quick to point out the negative effects, yet fail to acknowled the positive it could bring, to many innocent suspects.

If you are so paranoid, that you are going to be hauled off to a terrorist holding facility, you have much deeper issues and/or criminal relations than the majority of Americans. Think logically and numerically, before you try and convict notions that aren't even legalized.

...And if the government wants to tap into my phone conversations or internet usage, they are more than welcome to. The fear that "Big Brother" is watching, has been instill in Americans long before the Patriot Act, if you do nothing wrong... you have nothing to be ashamed of. Contrary to what some people and paranoia seed planting non-Americans might believe, the government couldn't care less if some people like to masturbate to midget transsexuals.

Well stated...I didn't feel like doing that much typing at the time so I posted the short form.

And you are living proof of that statement.

Uhhh...thats the right wing christian fanatics (such as yourself and Bush) that plays that game. Do you really believe your own self serving Andy Coulteristic bullshit?

Your comments and mentality are without a doubt on the same level as the cartoons you relate the world to.

No doubt you are a definite incarnation of someone high up in the Nazi party, probably sucked Hitlers dick a time or two.
Keep talking, maybe one day you'll say something intelligent.

Do you ever quit launching personal attacks on someone that wasn't even addressing you? Typical left wing antics. When they have nothing of value or of intelligence to contribute, they stoop to grade school level insults. Keep trying, you MIGHT offend me one day... the odds are not in your favor though! You are as brainwashed as the next idiot who babbles random name calling phrases any direction the popular wind blows.

You accuse me of sucking a dictator's dick, that was incarnated decades before myself... yet you are still riding the enemies dick as we speak. Jump off of Saddam and bin Laden's magic stick for a second or 2 and put your feet on some freedom fighting soil. Keep siding with the enemy... it's popular these days

it's interesting nobody really brings up the whole carnivore system with all this.

it was quite the rage when it was introduced. most people were highly pissed about it. it's still out there, collecting data on you, wether you like it or not.

and that's NOT just americans.

shhhhhhhhhhh



don't remind them, the cows have horrible memories...

But I'm not doing anything wrong so I've got nothing to worry about. I'm gonna go watch cartoons now

I lose all interest in what a person has to say about politics as soon as their response has anything to do with "typical left wing antics" or "typical right wing thinking" or "typical liberal" or blah blah blah.

You guys have made it start to sound like one wing is a different species from the other wing and that you all live on different hemispheres or something...

it's odd how prevalent this thinking is today, quite sad really...


I guess as long as it's not a mandatory random anal probe it's ok?



doesn't matter whether you're doing bad shit or not...if my memory serves me, one of the things that used to set our country aside from others was the freedoms we used to enjoy...


random searches without cause, without judicial oversight, etc was a no-no at one time, but I guess since we're all so worried about the terrorists coming back to kick our asses again we should just hand over ALL of our expectations of privacy and personal freedom...





mooooooooooooooooooo

exactly.

one of my programmer friends likes to have fun with this system. once and a while during phone conversations he'll start randomly spouting off keywords that the system would likely investigate.

i'm sure they had an entertaining time reading our discussions about making baloon bombs for fun.

the original project was in fact to be in place without any sort of court order, just as this proposal.

however, that did not make it. which, does leave some comfort that this proposal may not either make it without the mandatory court orders. i have my doubts it will get by, but who knows.

I'm actually a moderate conservative. I am not an extreme right wing conservative. I do not agree with everything they stand for... however, there's really not many more ways to classify people who make statements like "Republicans will cause a civil war" and "I hate Bush" etc etc. That's extreme left wing banter. Some people don't have an open mind when it comes to politics and believe it or not, I do. However, I have not heard ANY better solutions to our nation's problems, be it from Democrats, independents, moderates, Republicans etc... All I hear is a lot of complaining and no other alternative actions, other than "Ignore it and focus on making our country richer". I'm all for money... Love it, can't live without it... wouldn't want to or settle not to... BUT there are some things you cannot put a price tag on, freedom and morale being some. I will sacrifice ANY amount of money for security and well being that you cannot get in any other country. I happen to appreciate what I do currently have, personally and as a citizen... I don't feel the need to complain like some people do endlessly.

It's more than a whim. It's been in the works for decades.

Ah.. well technically they suggest that all men over 40 (or is it 50?) go in for routine annual anal probes. In some cases under certain circumstances it is actually mandatory I think? Imposed by insurance companies?...

Mandatory anal probes are here!

The sky has fallen!

yeah but... I hate Bush too.... but that doesn't make me extreme anything... maybe extreme Canadian?

I think someone who is a republican or a democrat can just as easily hate Bush as anyone else. Who cares what party they are supposed to salute too (yeah, might as well be a military analogy)? Why has the US come to the point where you have to pick a side, and then defend it till your last breath?

If I sit here and tell you that I think that the US gov't is out for themselves and their oil and money... what does that make me? extreme winged? Like a Boeing 747?

I just don't get it... either tell me that there's more to Bush's decisions than self profit or agree or just leave it alone... but telling me I'm a typical liberal or what ever... doesn't really give me much to go on. I'll pretty much just have to sit here and go on hating Bush until I have reasons otherwise.

Hmm... I guess you have never heard of stories like: black male driving down the road, minding his own business, pulled over by a police officer, taken out of his car, frisked, hand cuffed to the guard rail, car searched and then arrested for something completely ridiculous and unnecessary? I guess random searches, without cause of judicial oversight have neverrrrrrrrrrrrrr happened until these new bills were introduced? RIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT ... I guess it only bothers people, when it pertains to them. Pot calling the kettle black.

Moo to you too

LadyMischief Great Post!

I'm starting to get happier and happier that I'm in Australia now and not having to deal with this shit!

I love my country but the stress of living in America seems almost unbearable!

Hating Bush doesn't make you a left wing liberal... I know a lot of registered Republicans that can't stand Bush. The idea of choosing which party you are with, is just a matter of what you agree with more. Maybe you agree with them evenly... Presidential and state held elections are still the same as high school class elections. It's sheer popularity. I consider myself a moderate Republican because I agree with Republican policies more so than Liberal polices. Although I am not in complete agreeance with any party, I favor Conservatism. You do not have to pick a side and defend it till your last breath, in America you are entitled to form your own opinions and have your own beliefs... it's a shame more people don't take advantage of that though.

I agree.... it is. In Canada, people support different parties, but there's virtually no one who is 100% this or that. We pretty much all hate politicians equally and try to pick which ever is the lesser evil at the time. But it gives us a good perspective to be able to weed out the negatives that each party brings. No one party necessarily comes to the table blabbing about the same thing every single time either.

With all the "typical liberal crap" type attacks that Americans throw back and forth at each other, I just don't see any progress being made. It's impossible to convince one person or another of anything with statements like that.

Oh well, I guess I'll never fully understand it... but I agree, it is a shame that more people aren't more willing to take advantage of it. If they could just open their eyes to the good and bad of every politician and/or their party, they'd be better off.

Multiple personalilty disorder?

heh... that's kinda where I was going with it, but I didn't wanna say anything after I agreed with her last post

Furious female the fact that LadyMischief isn't American has NOTHING to do with this thread or the AMERICANS that have posted to it. That was a low blow on your part and shows the weakness of your stance.

I think you mistaken our concern for our country as "paranoia". You are the type of person who, if you lived in Germany during the reign of Hitler, would say.. "nothings wrong"... "if you're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear as long as you follow the rules". Bullshit! If we sit back and let the government do anything they want we will end up like Russia or China. Those are REAL examples of what complacency of citizens will lead to in a countries development. This has also happened in Korea. The fact that we as a people are constantly having to fight for our rights against our own government should be concerning to you unless your to busy being "furious" to deal with reality.

" if you do nothing wrong... you have nothing to be ashamed of. "
I don't know you , so please don't take this personally but that is the most ignorant statement I've read all day. Do I really have to sit here and cite ALL of the cases, on GFY alone, where people in the adult industry have been, and are, being prosecuted, even while following the law? " if you do nothing wrong... you have nothing to be ashamed of. " I personally went through a court case last year, for nine months of my life, where my religious BABYSITTER was trying to take my son away because I had an ADULT site... and you say " if you do nothing wrong... you have nothing to be ashamed of. " ???? What you will be put in jail for are directly related to the Patriot II.. it defines what is right or wrong.. worse off.. it leaves certain people to define it.. not "we the people"

"if you do nothing wrong... you have nothing to be ashamed of. "
Shame has nothing to do with anything.. it's your right to be innocent until proven guilty and the Patriot II takes those rights away.. period.. end of story.

I'm not saying "The sky is falling" but I am saying look up now and then or something might knock you out!

WRONG ... the Patriot Act and Patriot II happened within a 3 year period.. NOT decades. 3 years to do what these acts have done, or want to do, is a sprint in legal and political terms... definately a whim.

Uhm, yeh I have heard of that shit, but the arguments for 'it's not a big deal cuz I'm not 'doing anything wrong' or "i'm not black" or "I'm not an arab" or whatever does NOT make it tolerable, in any way shape or form....


we completely agree on this apparently...maybe I wasn't clear enough before....None of that crap is ok...not in this country, not anytime, or anywhere...


If we wanted safety in exchange for the government owning every last bit of our individuality, freedom, etc I guess those poor bastards that started this place wasted a whole lot of time, blood and writing on thinking this little experiment up....




oh, and I wasn't moooo'ing atcha, unless ya like that ;)

check and mate.

I like how she says "left wing liberal". Is leftist not already implied when a neocon bleats liberal? Its like calling someone a black ****** or stupid American.

Silly neocon women and their misuse of buzzwords. That is a sure fire way to seperate the neo from the old school better informed conservatives. If there is nothing more nauseating than a bandwagon jumper, it is a political bandwagon jumper.

Ignorance? I think ignorance is when somebody mentions the United States+Patriot Act with Hitler or North Korea in the same breath. It's not even close enough for a remote comparison so quit exaggerating the issue to make an argument. When the government relaxes and we get attacked, you blame the government for not doing enough and sleeping on the job. When they're trying to 'do enough' to protect us, you cry lost liberties. So where do you draw the line? You want to take away the liberty stealing metal detectors at airports? How about the elimination of police search powers all together and pass a law that requires criminals have to be caught on videotape committing a crime before there's even an attempted arrest. How's that for protecting all Americans and their liberties?

Is it hard to type and suck off Bush at the same time?

Do you have a hard time responding with more than one sentence? Learning to read might help you know? I don't see any references to "Bush" in my post, do you? Let me help you: Type in google.com, now search for "English Tutors".

Sheesh. Must be a lot of illiterate people up this late! Not only can you NOT post a decent reply, but you can't even read a simple paragraph! You should join the adora guy and maybe split the costs of finding a decent WeB TuTor. hah!

Maybe you need a little history lesson.

In 1933 the German Parliament (called the Reichstag) was burned to the ground. Hitler blamed the Communists and used it as an opportunity to arrest 4000 Communists. The day after the fire Hitler invoked Article 48 of the Weimar Constitution, which permitted the suspension of civil liberties during national emergencies.

Same play different day.

Yeah and that wasn't exaggerating anything was it?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. When you deal with the government, for example flying in a federally regulated airplane, that is controlled by a federally regulated pilot, in federally regulated airspace and the federally regulated airplane is owned by a federally regulated airline then you don't have a choice but to be FEDERALLY REGULATED.

However what some of these ideas for the original patriot act, and patriot act II are wanting to come into your home which is NOT federally regulated..but private.

There is no reason to go to such extremes, we have plenty of laws and procedures in place to cover criminal investigations whether it's shoplifting or terrorism.

The government was not hampered, the government was just focusing on issues that just are not important.

So you honestly think, in your right mind, that the United States is going to go out and setup gas chambers to kill mass Americans soon? Please entertain us and tell us what is RELEVANCE is of what you posted?

" When the government relaxes and we get attacked, you blame the government for not doing enough and sleeping on the job. "

I never made any statement remotely close to this or relating to this at all. Stay with the thread and topic of discussion.

Talk about ALARMIST! Your response has nothing to do with my post or how I feel.

Well done!

How is it exaggerating? First of all, it was a question. Second, I wanted to know what the critics' answer to the problem of terrorists is.

Once again EXTREMES...and you call others illiterate.

What he is trying to say is that it doesn't take much for a government to come in and take away ALL your civil liberties.

Or maybe just SOME, chipping away at them a little bit at a time just like they are doing.

And don't think it can't happen here just because we're Uhmericun...people like to talk about owning guns and taking it into the streets and fighting the government...bullshit...hell if they can't even get out off of their lazy asses to vote they sure as hell aren't going to put that same ass on the line in a "civil war."

Did you even read what I posted? If you don't have the ability to respond to my post that responded to yours, then why respond at all?

still beats your country by 10 folds, might be one reason.

Again you are exagerating the issue and diluting the thread.... such a shame.

What I dont understand is since God Blesses America, and we support the homeland of his chosen people, why Bush cannot enlist the help of his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to help us. Surely the Lord will smote our enemies. We are a Christian nation, why has God abandoned us in our time of need?

The answers are the existing laws we already have on our books for conducting criminal investigations.

The answers are for agencies to work together instead of against each other.

The answers are for us as a country to quit setting up these little fucktard leaders, and revolutionists and supplying them weapons, money and training only for it to come back to haunt us.

The answers sure as hell are not detainment without due process, or legal counsel.

The answers sure as hell are not illegal wiretaps, or unlawful search and seizure.

My response was in your quotes.. take another toke and call it a night.. you need to get yourself together and think logically. A good nights sleep will do you good

Sure you can put a price tag on on freedom...you just called it "security."

What do you mean it doesn't take much? It does take A LOT for the government of the United States to just take away everybody's stuff. You do realize that we're not in North Korea, correct? Where have you been living or ARE currently living now?

"..The answers are for us as a country to quit setting up these little fucktard leaders,"

Remember.. Bush wasn't elected by the majority