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lEricPl

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Shipping IT Jobs Overseas is anti-American

10-06-2003, 02:29 AM

Job exports may imperil U.S. programmers
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech...s.offshore.ap/

Slowdown sending tech jobs overseas
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/sil...ey/4332783.htm

U.S. tech workers training their replacements
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech...placements.ap/

1 in 10 US tech jobs may move to India
http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/jul/30bpo.htm

Gartner Says Tech Jobs Will Continue to Move Overseas
http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news...le.php/2241641

http://www.washtech.org/wt/
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#2

10-06-2003, 02:34 AM

I used to get high on life but then I built up a tolerance.
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#3

10-06-2003, 02:34 AM

Globalization dude
Now we just need to fix the agricultural subsidies.

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junction

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#4

10-06-2003, 02:34 AM

Dont get me started....why should I have to learn a fucking arab language to call customer support because my a:\ drive went out?
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#5

10-06-2003, 02:36 AM

Arnold will take care of it

Questions?

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lEricPl

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#6

10-06-2003, 02:37 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech...eut/index.html

BANGALORE, India (Reuters) -- Software engineer Prakash just quit his job in Bangalore, but he's not worried.

"The market is booming. I can pick and choose a firm of my choice," said the 28-year-old engineer, who has been in the industry for about five years.

Software workers with two years of experience are paid about 25,000 rupees ($545) a month, roughly one sixth of what their U.S. counterparts earn but a princely wage in a country with an average per capita income of $480 a year.

US CORPORATE GREED
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Paul Markham

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#7

10-06-2003, 02:38 AM

You think it's only tech jobs and the US? How many cars are made in the US today and how may 10, 20 years ago?

I'm in CZ one of the new EEC countries, Germany, Holland, France are all screaming about unemployment. So they take on ten new countries where the people work for 1/4 of the wages. Seems like good planning to me.

Who wil buy the goods that are in all the new shopping malls seems the problem to me.

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#8

10-06-2003, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by lEricPl
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech...eut/index.html

What the fuck are you bitching about?

This is the reality of capitalism. Get used to it.

I used to get high on life but then I built up a tolerance.
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#9

10-06-2003, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by lEricPl
US CORPORATE GREED

It's not Anti-American, the U.S. has pushed for globalization for years. Albeit, trying to construct systems specifically in it's favor.

That is how capitalism works, it increases the standard of living world wide.

The Indian dude seems pretty happy about it to me.

quote:
Software workers with two years of experience are paid about 25,000 rupees ($545) a month, roughly one sixth of what their U.S. counterparts earn but a princely wage in a country with an average per capita income of $480 a year.

Last edited by <IMX>; 10-06-2003, 02:44 AM.

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lEricPl

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#10

10-06-2003, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by justsexxx
Arnold will take care of it

The state of CA. has Multi-Million dollar IT contracts with companies in India.

I hope he does.
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#11

10-06-2003, 02:49 AM

Originally posted by <IMX>
Globalization dude
Now we just need to fix the agricultural subsidies.
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#12

10-06-2003, 02:57 AM

Thats what happens when you try to westernise 3rd world countries! They want a slice of the green $$$ cake you have been showing them for all these years. Should have left them to the own

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#13

10-06-2003, 03:05 AM

This is happening a LOT in the UK

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#14

10-06-2003, 03:06 AM

Originally posted by millionaire
Thats what happens when you try to westernise 3rd world countries! They want a slice of the green $$$ cake you have been showing them for all these years. Should have left them to the own

the strong will survive...

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#15

10-06-2003, 03:07 AM

How is it greed? I currently have someone in Romania doing a bunch of work for me. He's an excellent programmer, and he'll work for a fraction of the cost that his american counterpart would. So uhh.. What should i do. Pay someone else up to 4 times as much for the same job, or should i save myself a few grand?

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#16

10-06-2003, 03:46 AM

Originally posted by chodadog
How is it greed? I currently have someone in Romania doing a bunch of work for me. He's an excellent programmer, and he'll work for a fraction of the cost that his american counterpart would. So uhh.. What should i do. Pay someone else up to 4 times as much for the same job, or should i save myself a few grand?

That depends whether you are anti-American or not.

Do you want US workers to go without jobs because you wanted to save a few bucks?
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#17

10-06-2003, 03:59 AM

It goes both ways. There are many businesses, both medium and small, that stay in business only by using labor from other nations. Some companies, including mine, wouldn't even be in business on 100% American labor. It's not like corporate profits are skyrocketing. Savings in one place show up as spending somewhere else.

My using non-American labor means I have more money to spend on American accountants, american hosting, and so on. I provide jobs to some US citizens too.

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#18

10-06-2003, 03:59 AM

This has nothing to do with pro- or anti- american

This is the globalization.
If american programmers are more expensive,
then they should be better.
If they cant keep up, then its only natural that you look
for the best value for money deal
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#19

10-06-2003, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by Colin
My using non-American labor means I have more money to spend on American accountants, american hosting, and so on. I provide jobs to some US citizens too.

Where's your sweatshop, Colin?

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#20

10-06-2003, 04:11 AM

Originally posted by Joe Average

Where's your sweatshop, Colin?

I have a few, my brother. I can pay people 4 or 5 times what they'd make otherwise. They're very happy.

Different labor markets provide good arbitrage opportunities.

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#21

10-06-2003, 04:16 AM

The US has been one of the biggest proponents of globalization.

Many in small-economy nations are opposed to globalization because in their view the industrial powers are exploiting their nations and using their power to create more favorable conditions for themselves.

They have some good points.

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#22

10-06-2003, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by Colin

I have a few, my brother. I can pay people 4 or 5 times what they'd make otherwise. They're very happy.

Different labor markets provide good arbitrage opportunities.

It's good to hear you don't bully, threaten, harrass and/or beat your second world sweatshop employees like some large American based multinational corporations do.

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#23

10-06-2003, 04:18 AM

Labor is just a product like any other, it makes economic sense to purchase that product where it's cheapest.

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#24

10-06-2003, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by Joe Average

It's good to hear you don't bully, threaten, harrass and/or beat your second world sweatshop employees like some large American based multinational corporations do.

Joe,

I want people to be happy they work for me. At the end of the day a company should make its employee's lives better not worse.

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#25

10-06-2003, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by Colin
At the end of the day a company should make its employee's lives better not worse.

I agree. It's a shame that greed often gets in the way.

I used to get high on life but then I built up a tolerance.
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#26

10-06-2003, 04:26 AM

Originally posted by chodadog
How is it greed? I currently have someone in Romania doing a bunch of work for me. He's an excellent programmer, and he'll work for a fraction of the cost that his american counterpart would. So uhh.. What should i do. Pay someone else up to 4 times as much for the same job, or should i save myself a few grand?

So who are you going to sell to, the guy you just put on the dole? Or the guy earning a fraction of what you were paying in the US?

There are balances. You have to be ablle to provide wages to your customers in order to sell them something. How are car sales doing in Detroit these days?

If you take a job away from someone in one country to give it to someone who earns 1/2 in another, the extra profit has to be ploughed back into education and infrastructure. Not given to a few who will invest it overseas to save even more taxes.

Last edited by Paul Markham; 10-06-2003, 04:31 AM.

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#27

10-06-2003, 04:27 AM

Originally posted by lEricPl

That depends whether you are anti-American or not.

Do you want US workers to go without jobs because you wanted to save a few bucks?

I'm not talking about a few bucks. I'm talking about a 75% saving here. I don't think it matters how pro-american or anti-american i am. Why shouldn't i pay a programmer who is just as able to program my shit if he's prepared to do it much cheaper?

I'm not american. I live in Australia. You can bet your ass i won't be paying an Australian 4 times as much to program for me just because he happens to live in Australia.

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#28

10-06-2003, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by chodadog
I'm not american.
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#29

10-06-2003, 04:49 AM

Originally posted by Joe Average

I agree. It's a shame that greed often gets in the way.

One can be greedy and still treat people with respect and dignity and make their lives better. An employer should assume that responsibility. A person spends a good part of their day at work and thinking about work.

It is doubtful that the industrialists are going to self-police. Nations will have to police their own states. Of course, what does this mean in countries like China which are in gross violation of human rights themselves?

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#30

10-06-2003, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by Colin

One can be greedy and still treat people with respect and dignity and make their lives better.

Of course this is possible. But it is the exception rather than the rule. The fact that trade unions exist is testament to that.

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#31

10-06-2003, 05:09 AM

Most major coporations are citizen of the world but people still beleive they are Amarican companies.
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#32

10-06-2003, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by lEricPl

Originally posted by chodadog
I'm not american.

Oh i see. I can't have an opinion about the situation unless i'm American? Tell me, am i "unaustralian" because i don't pay 4 times as much to have my programming done?

This situation is not something limited to the USA. The same thing is happening in Britain, in Australia and in just about every western country.

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#33

10-06-2003, 07:01 AM

Greed is the oil that greases the capitalist machine.

Maybe the most famous quote from "Wealth of Nations" is this:

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own neccessities but of their advantages."

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#34

10-06-2003, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by Colin
Greed is the oil that greases the capitalist machine.

Maybe the most famous quote from "Wealth of Nations" is this:

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own neccessities but of their advantages."

I concur

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#35

10-06-2003, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by cronos

I concur

Nice alliteration too.

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