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Greg B

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#1

Berg Beheading Video A Fake?

05-17-2004, 08:21 PM

http://www.aztlan.net/berg_abu_ghraib_video.htm

Consider the source and consider the simularities.

Either way, it calls for further looking into.
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#2

05-17-2004, 09:25 PM

Still not conclusive evidence to me, but getting closer.

There is no way you can say the chairs are exactly the same when you can only see a portion of the arms. The backs could be totally different.

I can not tell, based on the photos that the hats match either.

I might agree with the jumpsuit and some of the other claims that there wasn't enough blood flying around and the tennis shoes (maybe he is just a Jordan fan).

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#3

05-17-2004, 09:29 PM

hmm
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#4

05-17-2004, 09:33 PM

The first thing I thought when I saw it was that it was a fake. Not because of the chairs or anything, it just sorta looked fake.
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#5

05-17-2004, 09:34 PM

I don't know I think it was very real

But then again I hope it was a fake. For his/family sake I hope it was a fake.
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#6

05-17-2004, 09:35 PM

I thought that the minute I saw it because of all the screaming. When you're throat is sliced the last thing you're going to be able to do is scream because you start to drown in your blood.

I'm thinking that guy was an Islamic sympathizer and his death was faked and that's not his body they buried.

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#7

05-17-2004, 09:36 PM

I donno it looked real too me. I think just knowing what happen to the man after they found his body, then hearing all about the video. When I actually seen it, I gagged tons of times, just thinking of the poor guy and the pain. I couldn't bare to watch it again. But who knows it could of been fake... but the poor soul is definitely dead.

I have a pretty strong stomach too.. but that I couldn't watch it was torture.

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#8

05-17-2004, 09:37 PM

I hope its a set-up.

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#9

05-17-2004, 09:39 PM

Ok lets say it was a fake were is nick at?
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#10

05-17-2004, 09:41 PM

this was posted on another forum (unrelated to adult) but the source links don't work but it's still a interresting read. Makes you think..

ps I know the chair theory has been posted here before..

**edit btw I chose not to watch the vid, so I couldn't say if any of this is true.. but worth the post..

Sources for all my facts can be found at the bottom, they are labeled according to subject.

That having been said...

Anyone notice how "convenient" it was that the tape had come out, just as the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal was in full swing? Not only did this take the abuse scandal off of headlines, but it swayed public opinion back against "those ****ing Iraqis".

Evidence

1) Most people replied by asserting that the execution occured as retribution to the abuse photos that had surfaced, but you have to ask yourself - do these terrorists, who are clearly capable of brainwashing people to the point where they are willing to kill and be killed for their beliefs, really have no concept of political tact? Here they are, the whole world screaming at the US for hypocrisy and injustice over these pictures, and they perform and publish this execution right in the heat of the scandal. In other words, these masters of brainwashing and spin and deception release a video of a despicable act just as the US, their sworn enemy, is being globally grilled. Does this make sense to you?

2) Second, I wonder what the standard issue chair is at Abu Ghraib prison?

*cough*

3) Is it not interesting that the wall colour at Abu Ghraib prison is identical to that of the video?

4) Is it not also interesting that Berg is wearing the same orange jumpsuit worn by prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison? Sure, you say, perhaps he was kidnapped directly from the prison (as stupid as this sounds, anyway) - but then can you please explain (7)?

5) Is it also not interesting that the timecodes in the video jump back and forth?

6) Is it also not interesting that Berg did not exhibit any of the convulsions that typically accompany decapitation? http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/uac/iacuc/rodents/avma.htm I am suggesting here that Berg was already dead when the decapitation occured (which accounts for 5). Before you go calling me crazy, please review the evidence; why did he not exhibit the convulsions that go hand in hand with decapitation (especially such an extended one)?

7) Is it not curious that the US denies contact with Berg, and yet his friends and family insist that he told them he was being held by the US? Huh? Why?

Another tape oddity - the men SPEAK RUSSIAN for several seconds. Not only that, but they speak Arabic with Russian accents. That's right, in the final seconds of the tape, one of the men speaks in Russian. Those here who understand russian (and have the stomach to view that final seconds of the video) can verify this. Those who speak Arabic will be able to verify that these men speak Arabic in Russian accents.

9) Finally (the physical evidence that will convince you in case you already aren't)...
You will notice, in watching the video, that 6 times, a gold ring flashes on the hand of the executioner. What is the problem? Islam completely and utterly forbids men to wear gold rings. This fanatical muslim, willing to kill in a gutwrenching manner, and be killed for his beliefs, is violating one of the clear prohibitions of his religion? Really? DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

Two more points:

10) Nick Berg understands Arabic, but sits calmy while statement is read, waiting to be killed. Hmm?

11) One of the executioners is wearing Air Jordans. WHAT?

12) The "terrorists" signed the video, yet they wear hoods and masks. Why?

13) The "terrorists" have lily white hands.

14) The video time is in US Military time. What the hell?

Conclusion
As many has suspected, but have not had the time to build a solid case for, the execution of Nick Berg was performed by coalition interests (most likely independent Russian mercenaries) in order to dwarf the abuse pictures and sway public opinion back against the Iraqis and in support of the war by taking advantage of the emotional reaction we all experience when hearing of such an despicable act. The poor production quality (all the "curiosities" I have pointed out) of this video can be attributed to the haste in which it was made after the order was given to distract the public from the abuse scandal, and is in line with my conclusion.

Again, before you attack my conclusion, attack my evidence. No matter how crazy you think this sounds, examine the evidence objectively and please try to deny a single thing I have said. If you cannot deny my evidence, you logically cannot deny my conclusion. Make your replies free of subjective opinions.

Sources:

Chair, wall, timecode, and :
http://www.libertyforum.org/showfla...=-1#Post1469025
http://www.news24houston.com/conten...906&SecID=2

Berg was in US custody:
http://www........./2004/WORLD/meast...ends/index.html

Gold rings forbidden by Islam:
http://www.khilafah.com/home/catego...529&TagID=2
http://www.google.com/search?q=gold...-8&oe=utf-8

The execution video can be seen here (warning, extremely graphic): http://temp.eyecannon.com/iraq2vediom.wmv

Last edited by crockett; 05-17-2004, 09:43 PM.

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#11

05-17-2004, 09:41 PM

I had my doubts too the first time I saw the video. As gross as it seems, it just didn't seem real to me.

However....
- Paint on the walls means nothing. I would imagine all of the paint in that region are similar.
- The plastic chair is very common. I would imagine even more so in Iraq.
- So one of them is wearing new sneakers. Maybe he wanted to get dressed up for his big day or something.
- Bullet proof vests? I would imagine that terrorists in the middle of a warzone - where they could be raided at any moment - would be wearing a bullet proof vest. Obviously their God isn't going to protect them.
- As for the screaming it seemed to me like they dubbed it in so it repeated itself. It's called video editing.
- The hat? Pretty much standard in the region; Might even be an American hat the same as our military wears. Maybe it's a trophy or something.

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#12

05-17-2004, 09:45 PM

killing jewish americans is kind of a jihadist's rasion d'être... It wouldn't suprise in the slightest if it was faked but theres a much larger possibility that angry radicals just did what angry radicals do.
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#13

05-17-2004, 09:45 PM

*Breaking news* The execution video was filmed at my house - proof:
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#14

05-17-2004, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by TurboTrucker
*Breaking news* The execution video was filmed at my house - proof:

Exactly my point.

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#15

05-17-2004, 09:48 PM

fuck anyone got a link i gotta watch this again
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#16

05-17-2004, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by TurboTrucker
*Breaking news* The execution video was filmed at my house - proof:

I think for the most part everyone agrees the chairs are worthless proof.

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#17

05-17-2004, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by crockett
this was posted on another forum (unrelated to adult) but the source links don't work but it's still a interresting read. Makes you think..

ps I know the chair theory has been posted here before..

**edit btw I chose not to watch the vid, so I couldn't say if any of this is true.. but worth the post..

Sources for all my facts can be found at the bottom, they are labeled according to subject.

That having been said...

Anyone notice how "convenient" it was that the tape had come out, just as the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal was in full swing? Not only did this take the abuse scandal off of headlines, but it swayed public opinion back against "those ****ing Iraqis".

Evidence

1) Most people replied by asserting that the execution occured as retribution to the abuse photos that had surfaced, but you have to ask yourself - do these terrorists, who are clearly capable of brainwashing people to the point where they are willing to kill and be killed for their beliefs, really have no concept of political tact? Here they are, the whole world screaming at the US for hypocrisy and injustice over these pictures, and they perform and publish this execution right in the heat of the scandal. In other words, these masters of brainwashing and spin and deception release a video of a despicable act just as the US, their sworn enemy, is being globally grilled. Does this make sense to you?

2) Second, I wonder what the standard issue chair is at Abu Ghraib prison?

*cough*

3) Is it not interesting that the wall colour at Abu Ghraib prison is identical to that of the video?

4) Is it not also interesting that Berg is wearing the same orange jumpsuit worn by prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison? Sure, you say, perhaps he was kidnapped directly from the prison (as stupid as this sounds, anyway) - but then can you please explain (7)?

5) Is it also not interesting that the timecodes in the video jump back and forth?

6) Is it also not interesting that Berg did not exhibit any of the convulsions that typically accompany decapitation? http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/uac/iacuc/rodents/avma.htm I am suggesting here that Berg was already dead when the decapitation occured (which accounts for 5). Before you go calling me crazy, please review the evidence; why did he not exhibit the convulsions that go hand in hand with decapitation (especially such an extended one)?

7) Is it not curious that the US denies contact with Berg, and yet his friends and family insist that he told them he was being held by the US? Huh? Why?

Another tape oddity - the men SPEAK RUSSIAN for several seconds. Not only that, but they speak Arabic with Russian accents. That's right, in the final seconds of the tape, one of the men speaks in Russian. Those here who understand russian (and have the stomach to view that final seconds of the video) can verify this. Those who speak Arabic will be able to verify that these men speak Arabic in Russian accents.

9) Finally (the physical evidence that will convince you in case you already aren't)...
You will notice, in watching the video, that 6 times, a gold ring flashes on the hand of the executioner. What is the problem? Islam completely and utterly forbids men to wear gold rings. This fanatical muslim, willing to kill in a gutwrenching manner, and be killed for his beliefs, is violating one of the clear prohibitions of his religion? Really? DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

Two more points:

10) Nick Berg understands Arabic, but sits calmy while statement is read, waiting to be killed. Hmm?

11) One of the executioners is wearing Air Jordans. WHAT?

12) The "terrorists" signed the video, yet they wear hoods and masks. Why?

13) The "terrorists" have lily white hands.

14) The video time is in US Military time. What the hell?

Conclusion
As many has suspected, but have not had the time to build a solid case for, the execution of Nick Berg was performed by coalition interests (most likely independent Russian mercenaries) in order to dwarf the abuse pictures and sway public opinion back against the Iraqis and in support of the war by taking advantage of the emotional reaction we all experience when hearing of such an despicable act. The poor production quality (all the "curiosities" I have pointed out) of this video can be attributed to the haste in which it was made after the order was given to distract the public from the abuse scandal, and is in line with my conclusion.

Again, before you attack my conclusion, attack my evidence. No matter how crazy you think this sounds, examine the evidence objectively and please try to deny a single thing I have said. If you cannot deny my evidence, you logically cannot deny my conclusion. Make your replies free of subjective opinions.

Sources:

Chair, wall, timecode, and :
http://www.libertyforum.org/showfla...=-1#Post1469025
http://www.news24houston.com/conten...906&SecID=2

Berg was in US custody:
http://www........./2004/WORLD/meast...ends/index.html

Gold rings forbidden by Islam:
http://www.khilafah.com/home/catego...529&TagID=2
http://www.google.com/search?q=gold...-8&oe=utf-8

The execution video can be seen here (warning, extremely graphic): http://temp.eyecannon.com/iraq2vediom.wmv

You sold me. If anything it absolutely makes you doubt the credibility of this event.

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#18

05-17-2004, 09:52 PM

Shit now I have go and register FakeBeheadingVideos.com

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#19

05-17-2004, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by KRL
You sold me. If anything it absolutely makes you doubt the credibility of this event.

yea I just wish the source links worked, as I got it from another forum where the person copied it from somewhere else and the links were all screwed.

BTW you got mail but I dunno if you'll be interested

Last edited by crockett; 05-17-2004, 09:53 PM.

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#20

05-17-2004, 10:07 PM

well i hope it was fake . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

and i do hope Nick is still alive. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

eventhough i got a slight phobia on people who's shouting, people who got a cover on their face and people who talks in diffrent dialect..........

im still hoping that vid is a big fake, and nick should be still alive.......

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#21

05-17-2004, 10:13 PM

Not a surprise, my original wonder was why was he in an american jumpsuit
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#22

05-17-2004, 10:28 PM

I am one of the biggest and most gullible "conspiracy" theorists around..but even after reading ALL the "evidence", I still think you're really reaching here in trying to prove it was fake.

Is that what you are trying to prove..or that someone OTHER than Nick Berg was killed?

And the motive seems to be: "To sway public opinion away from the jail abuse". Yet, I think even the CIA ain't that dumb to think a video of that type would do the trick.

Plus..why Nick Berg of all people? And if he is alive, will he have to stay "dead" to keep the "dream" alive? Does this mean he can never see his parents or friends again. And does this mean that the CIA offed him to keep him quiet? Now, that would be sickeningly ironic if that happened.

Just having hard time finding motive and evidence for this.
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#23

05-17-2004, 10:32 PM

don't you think, the video should be a little better quailty. I think my webcam has the same quality

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#24

05-17-2004, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by KRL
I thought that the minute I saw it because of all the screaming. When you're throat is sliced the last thing you're going to be able to do is scream because you start to drown in your blood.

I'm thinking that guy was an Islamic sympathizer and his death was faked and that's not his body they buried.

They didn't start slicing at his throat... they started slicing at the side of his neck... it took a while. When the screaming stopped, that was the momment they slit his throat. (about 15 seconds into it).
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#25

05-17-2004, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by Manowar
Not a surprise, my original wonder was why was he in an american jumpsuit

Orange jumpsuit... doesnt mean it's american.
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#26

05-17-2004, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by KRL
Shit now I have go and register FakeBeheadingVideos.com

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#27

05-17-2004, 10:40 PM

I was told by a US soldier that the guys in the video held their guns just like US Soldiers.

And something about the gun straps as well.
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#28

05-17-2004, 10:40 PM

hmmz
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#29

05-17-2004, 10:41 PM

interesting read
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#30

05-18-2004, 12:00 AM

Okay, I knew you guys would be one up on the special effects gurus I work with.

Some of the best in Hollywood and worldwide are at another forum duking it out over this presentation of the video.

I think GFYers are more keen on fraud since as webmasters you've got to be sharp or you end up in trouble. Plus your detective skills are sharper too.

I've seen people decapitated. It's a royal friggin' mess. Sometimes the blood just keeps pumping in spurts and sometimes it just pourrrrrrs out like thin syrup and I mean by the bucket full.

Someone being slowly decapitated is gonna fight and wriggle even if tied up. Adrenaline surges and it would take about 4 big men just to hold down a small guy. Most experienced hunters know this when sometimes a prey gets caught in wire or hit by a car when fleeing. ( sometimes deer or antelope will bolt and run into low slung wire from fences like clotheslines ).

The bad and opportune editing of the vid is akin to magic tricks used in basic special effects. It's 'cutting' meaning you switch something and edit the film sort of like 'slight of hand'. Just go and rent one of the 'special effects' DVDs from the 'Friday the 13th' series and you'll see what I mean. I've seen more convincing beheadings in matinee movies.

Something about this whole Nick Berg incident is wayyy too shakey.

He happens to be in the most unopportune place at the most unopportune time, then conflicts to who had him incarcerated and who didn't. Family says they've emails from the U.S. consolate and the consolate says no.

Something is shakey here and I'ld bet it'll break soon.

If it is fake, there'll be heck to pay to whomever perpetrated this.
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#31

05-18-2004, 12:03 AM

its gotta be fake
i used to work in hospitals ive seen what happens when someone has a cut artery - there's blood everywhere
it;s goitta be 100 times worse if its a full decapitiation
that vid is real lame

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#32

05-18-2004, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by TurboTrucker
*Breaking news* The execution video was filmed at my house - proof:

hahaha. Damning evidence!

Ouch.
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#33

05-18-2004, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by RocHard
Exactly my point.

rofl!!!

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#34

05-18-2004, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by =^..^=
its gotta be fake
i used to work in hospitals ive seen what happens when someone has a cut artery - there's blood everywhere
it;s goitta be 100 times worse if its a full decapitiation
that vid is real lame

There appears to be a rather large puddle of blood on the floor in that video. It's dark, and doesn't contrast well with the floor, but it's there.

If you examine other beheading videos (Russian video, Pearl video) there isn't much "spurting" of blood, but rather an emptying of the bloodflow... like the spilling of a bucket.

Ouch.
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#35

05-18-2004, 12:15 AM

Oh boy, this whole affair just keeps on getting more interesting by the day.

The faked Berg beheading video was obviously an attempt at radical damage control by someone acting on behalf on those who would benefit most from the outrage the video provoked.

It seems the cat is now well and truly out of the bag.

Last edited by Joe Citizen; 05-18-2004, 12:18 AM.
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#36

05-18-2004, 12:17 AM

Looked real enough to me

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#37

05-18-2004, 12:24 AM

It looked so real and scary that I wish it was not!

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#38

05-18-2004, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by Joe Citizen

Oh boy, this whole affair just keeps on getting more interesting by the day.

The faked Berg beheading video was obviously an attempt at radical damage control by someone acting on behalf on those who would benefit most from the outrage the video provoked.

So where is the real Berg guy then? Did they kill him anyway? Do they have him locked away in a basement somewhere? If the family got to view the body once it arrived back home, who did they actually identify?

Ouch.
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#39

05-18-2004, 12:27 AM

Personally, I thought it looked like a shitty Muslim B movie.
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#40

05-18-2004, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by Gman.357
So where is the real Berg guy then? Did they kill him anyway? Do they have him locked away in a basement somewhere? If the family got to view the body once it arrived back home, who did they actually identify?

If he is dead (which is more than likely) he could have been killed at any time and by any method in between when he appears alive in the video and when his body has the head cut off. There is obviously a great time difference between the two sections of the video. The screams could have been VERY easily dubbed.

I'm not doubting that he is dead. I just now doubt that he was decapitated while he was alive.

The whole thing is very suspicious.
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#41

05-18-2004, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by Gman.357
So where is the real Berg guy then? Did they kill him anyway? Do they have him locked away in a basement somewhere? If the family got to view the body once it arrived back home, who did they actually identify?

It would be really suspicious if they sent the body back missing the head.

Did anyone see coffin pics of him??

That'd be kind of an easy stunt to pull on the family. If you've ever seen a dead body at a viewing they don't usually resemble the loved one very much after all the embalming fluid and makeup is put on them.

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#42

05-18-2004, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by KRL
Shit now I have go and register FakeBeheadingVideos.com

[email protected]
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Gman.357

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#43

05-18-2004, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by KRL
It would be really suspicious if they sent the body back missing the head.

Did anyone see coffin pics of him??

That'd be kind of an easy stunt to pull on the family. If you've ever seen a dead body at a viewing they don't usually resemble the loved one very much after all the embalming fluid and makeup is put on them.

I haven't seen any pics of him in the coffin, and doubt that there are going to be any. If it ever comes out that the body was sent back minus the head, and the family didn't request a fingerprint analysis, I'd be very very surprised. They've been critically outspoken on other things, so if their son came back headless, I'm thinking we will probably hear about it somehow.

Al Qaida has come out to claim the video is a fraud, but more specifically, has the al-Zarqawi group in question, who claimed responsiblity for the video come out to independantly dispute their involvement?

Ouch.
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Greg B

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#44

05-18-2004, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by Gman.357
There appears to be a rather large puddle of blood on the floor in that video. It's dark, and doesn't contrast well with the floor, but it's there.

If you examine other beheading videos (Russian video, Pearl video) there isn't much "spurting" of blood, but rather an emptying of the bloodflow... like the spilling of a bucket.

Agreed Gman.357 'except' this wasn't just a clean cut beheading. This was more of a lengthy 'slicing/sawing'. Just one freakin artery there'ld be blood all over the place, aerosols and strong bursts, gasses and fat and all kinds of junk.

If it wasn't for the bad and odd editing pattern I wouldn't even entertain all this debate.
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TheMob

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#45

05-18-2004, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by KRL
Shit now I have go and register FakeBeheadingVideos.com

hehe
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Corleone

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#46

05-18-2004, 07:33 AM

could be...
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Greg B

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#47

05-18-2004, 07:34 AM

http://drudgereport.com/flash1.htm

Drudge report says 4 are being held in regard to the murder. Let's see what apple shakes from this tree.
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tony286

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#48

05-18-2004, 07:34 AM

Terrorists dont wear bullet proof vests , they think to die in battle you go right to heaven . If this was your thought why wear something to prevent it . Their hands are very pale looking for middle eastern people. Also the video quality is terrible very unclear and isnt it funny this happened the exact time the government was really starting to feel pressure from what was happening at that prison. The press better wake the fuck up, thats why we have the first amendment the press is supposed to keep the government in check.
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crockett

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#49

05-18-2004, 07:43 AM

I personally think the guy is dead.. why on earth would they keep him alive if indeed it was a fake..Did the CIA do it, I dunno. Did radical Muslim extremist do it.. more than likely.. But who really knows.

I honestly can't make a very good guess as I decided not to watch the video. However the post I copied from the other board brings up some very valid points and just more doubt to what was already very sketchy. Again I didn't watch it, but did the guy struggle at all while his head was getting cut off? I mean from the smalls parts of the video that I've seen (the beginning with the talking). It seems strange if this guy did indeed understand Arabic why didn't he fight at all? Is the gold ring thing true?

In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator.
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Doctor Dre

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#50

05-18-2004, 07:45 AM

Wouldn't really surprise me ... the quality realllly sucks

Originally posted by rayadp05

I rebooted, deleted temp files, history, cookies and everything...still cannot view the news clip. All I see is that fucking gay ass music video from "Rick Roll". Anyone else have a different link to the news clip?
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