Member wants 22 months of refunds.

50 chargebacks!

Just cancel it.

They should get an automatic email.

This is why you need firm and clear policies in place.

And clear terms and conditions.

An email receipt SHOULD be sent out with each rebill.

Silent rebills like iBill do I think is disgusting.

Thats BS, 22 months of an account he had, How could it possibly take this dude 22 months to notice? I closely check my cc bills and shit every month, as I am sure many many people do, I know I never would have missed it for that long, I think the guy is just trying to get something for free.

Pick a safe number based on history of processors and refund back only that amount, and let the chips fall where they may...for the rest..

Or.

Offer a settlement amount for him to go away.

If it was me, I'd just give the guy back the full amount...he's an idiot, and it would be really unfair for you to get in a battle of wits with an unarmed man

Besides darlin' you're not losing a dime anyways...the 22 months of charges refunded, plus any additional charges your processor makes are all tax deducatable right off the top.

I hope all turns out well for ya.

Man that sucks, I have an idea. I would contact the guy and tell him you have to send him a letter to his address on file that he must sign to process the credits. Also tell him the credit company might also need to call him and ask him questions about the credits. It is really his fault for not looking at his statements but maybe if you send some stuff to his house it will scare him off, who knows. Good luck!

Mark

if he doesnt check his shit, it IS fault, tell him to GFH (go fuck himself)

First a comment to those who said the customer should check his credit card statement and take responsibility. Your in the wrong business right now. There is no wrong or right, if it causes pain to VISA..............


Without passing any comment on this particular case, I wouldn't be surprized to see VISA tackle this next. Guess, but I would think a lot of people do not bother to check every item in their credit card statements. The percentage of customers who 'suck it up' and don't complain must be quite high. Add to that the ever increasing number who do complain/chargeback. Either the recurring model will go, or confirmation of each 'recur' will be required. I reckon it's only a matter of time.

shit, I never look at any of my bills . . . . which has caused a few problems on occassion, but I doubt I am the only one that just pays them once in a while when the urge hits

Check your logs and see if he was using his un/pw. If its never been used, refund him as much as you can. If it was used regularly by someone who fraudulently used his card, tell him theres nothing you can do but cancel his membership so he will not be rebilled in the future.

I am curious what you give the consumer for $49.95 a month ,thats alot of money lol.

I give you $10 for this guys e-mail

I wouldn't give the guy anything without getting more information from him first - and perhaps even speaking to him on the phone and not just by email.

Get info like mailing address, SSN, etc.

Definetly contact all the processors and let them know this guys info so they can all blacklist him or he will just do this bullshit again.

Mark

We send midgets to their house to fellate them as they view our sites. The cab fare ain't cheap.

I can't give you the actual email address, but I can do the next best thing. Here's the md5 of the address.

9a3adf7016598186e64748ec64e6cb53

Offer him a free lifetime membership.

Usually, when I get requests like this and they claim they never accessed the members area, I check the logs, show them the evidence of them downloading 10 gigs, and they disappear.

sux why visa and master card just dont introduce extra security measures. credit card is old tech, they should make it more internet friendly, it would just benifit everyone.

Do the stand up thing and refund the fuckers money. He may be a dick but if he never logged into the member's area, he didn't utilize any resources. Make him pay the 13% fee or something, but aside from that, give him back his money.

We may refund his money it depends on his explanation for why it took him 22 months to notice the charges.

The not utilizing resources is an interesting point, however our primary expense per member is advertising. Proportionately it costs us very little to serve a member. Getting the member in the
first place costs a lot more.

Tell him to fuck off. But say it nicely.

Pretty to look at, nice to hold, but if you break it consider it sold.

We will be charging you the first nights rate if you don't cancel by the day before yesterday even though you are booking this room today.

_________________________________________

Neither of those stand up to chargebacks either.



The bottom line here is not right or wrong, I'm sorry. It's risk management.

I'll bet you 100 that he gets EVERY one of those months charged back from his bank, without documenting anything, and that he gets the ones credited by IBill charged back too, if you don't credit him.

Once again, it sucks, but it's the cost of doing business.

I'm about to implement dormant account monitoring on my sites... best solution I've come up with so far is to email them if it's been 2-3 weeks since their last access, and a rebill is going to happen within a few days.

I have been toying with Verotel's "Smart Recurring" which requires the surfer to explicitly renew their subscription (with a single click from the email). This would solve the problem of dormant accounts, but it would probably also cause extra cancellations as people make spur of the moment decisions NOT to renew.

BTW, I would consider even a single month dormant, since they are paying a monthly fee for a service they are not using for that month...

im writing wether or not you guys think im in the wrong.

myself ive been billed by a company for 2 years before i noticed i was being billed 1 time every 6 months this kind of stuff i consider a scam half you people who post here are under 18 in the 1st place, my recommendation is refund him as far as ibill will let you. no wonder out industry is in the crisus it is in you guys expect people to pay there life income to you because you have a miniature terms of service that says you will be billed for life until you cancel.

any of my personal members that dont like my site/or my members area get a full refund really it costs you nothing they download 5 gigs of shit it costs you a wopping $20 for it all... all i can say is most of you run your sites for the money, and are ripping people off i cant wait till the governments get involved in this kind of stuff because honeslty he probably did not access your site in atleast a year. myself if someone wants a refund i give it to them most of the time no questions asked.. my site has cleared alot of money, you think big named stores can get away with this? of course not.. no wonder there is so many adult investigations going on.

this guy signed up and A) forgot about it.. or B) could not find your cancel link.

in my opinion you should be held responsible for it all.. refund the poor guy you just STOLE $1000 from him for what ? he didnt even access your site ill bet you. thats 1 less customer that will ever use his visa on the internet again.


flame me its sites like this that are screwing the REAL SITES on the internet over.

nice


any perks for affiliates?

NetRodent,

IBill refunded 5 months of charges because anything up to 6 months can be charged back. I would say that this particular issue has been resolved as best as it can be. I would send a polite letter to the customer explaining that they have already been refunded for 6 months (during which you provided them service) and that they cannot expect a refund for more than that.

What if this customer had been with you for 6 years? Would you think about giving back $3600? The answer is: of course not. Consumers are going to have to take some responsibility for their own credit card.

Victoria

I demand that DirecTV refund me two years of Showtime, because I got a free trial and I never watched it after that.

the customer is always right... as the saying goes

Only difference is that you couldn't get a refund or c/b 2 years of DirecTV. This guy stands a decent chance of getting 22 c/b's done for him.

KK is right. It's about risk not right or wrong, unfortunately.

Best idea I've seen is refund it all except 15% and call it a restocking fee or account maintenance fee or something.

I'd get his address and send him a check or money order - with "REFUND FOR PORNOGRAPHY MEMBERSHIP" printed in bold letters on it.
In fact, that's how I handle most of my requests for refunds rather than run them through the processor.

In your opinion when does the customer become responsible for his own actions and his own money?

This "poor guy"...
a) voluntarily signed up for a porn site
b) logged into that porn site and viewed its content at least twice
And you would know that if you had read the whole thread instead of just firing off.

He "stole" NOTHING.

It's people like you who don't expect people to be responsible for themselves and who claim that customer ignorance = merchant theft that has caused Visa to have such utterly ridiculous "no questions asked" chargeback policies.

I honestly think Brad has the best solution - tell the guy that Ibill is the processor and they have already handled it to the best of their ability, and any future correspondence concerning this account or the billing thereof should be sent directly to Ibill.

And do NOT refund two friggin' years of membership.

LOL - I like your solution, too
What's the percentage on the checks that actually get cashed? I'm dying to know!

I have to disagree with you I dont think this webmaster was stealing from anyone. I do think $49.95 is a bit extreme and since he didnt proudly tell me what the consumer gets for $49.95 I will assume his site is lacking, its probably a marketing mill. All that aside the customer forgot to cancel the account is not his fault, I joined a newsgroup thing and forgot about it. I was getting a recurring charge on my credit card statement for $5.95 for a year. When I figured it out ,I said I am a fucking jerk and canceled it. I didnt go crying for a refund. On the other hand it wasnt $49.95 ,considering Danni Ashe charges 29.95 a month and Jenna charges $34.95 a month these are big sites with shitloads of content, $49.95 is a bit much.

Good idea

Since your post was so rambling, I've disected it to address each point in turn. In some cases I may have misinterpreted what you meant due to the lack of punctuation in your original post, please correct an incorrect assumptions I make.

Your situation was a little bit different. Missing a charge that appears once every six months would seem to be much easier than missing a charge that appears once a month. However the real question is did you agree to those charges or not?


What kind of stuff is a scam? Rebilling? Or not taking responsiblity for your own carelessness?


I'm not sure where you got this information from or how this is relevant to the conversation.

Your recommendation is noted. I didn't post originally looking for advice, rather I simply wanted to share a bit of absurdity. That's not to say I don't welcome the posts from those who offered advice, some of the suggestions have been quite interesting.


Yes, its no wonder our industry is in crisis when we live in a culture that teaches people that they do not have to be responsible for their own actions. Its a scary world where everything is somebody else's fault. Somebody else has to clean up the mess. Somebody else has to pay.

Would you feel differently if this guy had physically signed a paper contact? Maybe we should make people print out, sign and fax 20 page contacts for membership instead of just filling out a simple online form. Rather than giving them almost instant access, lets make it take 24-48 hours to give people time to really think it over. Should the industry make it significantly more difficult to join paysites because of the <1% of customers who are idiots?

This is what trial memberships are for. If the subscriber doesn't like the site during the trial, they can cancel with no obligation. All they've risked to find out whether they like the site or not is $1.95.

However, this particular case doesn't seem to be a matter of customer satisfaction. Its a case of someone being irresponsible. We have the luxury of being able to refund this guy and it won't affect our bank balance to a noticible degree. I imagine that a lot of sites out there couldn't afford to refund $1000. Many small sites went out of business rather than pay the $750 Visa registration fee. If they couldn't pay that, they certainly could refund $1000.

Lets play a little game. Lets pretend, I was a single mom with struggling to feed 3 kids on my porn site income; the money I made two years ago has already been spent. Is it fair to me to have take responsibility for this guy's carelessness?

When does the customer become responsible? Where do we draw the line? If the guy was asking for 3 or 4 months because he didn't check his statement, the guy would have a refund and I wouldn't be posting this here. We have to accept responsibilty for a certain amount of consumer carelessness. The question is how much. You obviously feel that its not this guy's fault he got billed for two years? What if it was 5 years, would you still feel the same way? How about 10 years?


Of course we run our sites for money. This is the adult industry not the adult charity. I'm curious why you equate running a site for money with ripping people off? Most restaurants are run for money. Do most restaurants rip people off? Most stores are run for money. Do most stores rip people off? Come to think of it, aren't most businesses are run to make money?

This guy didn't access the site since the first two days of his subscription. However the access was there if he wanted it. If I rent a house and go on vacation should I not have to pay the rent because I wasn't using it? Say I decide two years later that I really didn't want the house in the first place, should I get my money back?

Sounds pretty much like us. I'm curious though, you say "most of the time they get a refund"; when don't you give them a refund? Perhaps when they're asking for something outlandish and unreasonable?


I really don't follow what you're trying to say here. What can or can't big name stores get away with? What do big name stores have to do with adult investigations?

Or a third option that hasn't been brought up, he was in a coma in the hospital the last two years and the nurses used his card.

If the guy signed up and forgot about it, why is that our fault? Who's job is it to watch his wallet? Is it our job or his?

If the guy couldn't find our cancel link, he would have to be blind. Practically every page inside and outside of our sites links to our support site, where the cancellation instructions are blatantly obvious. Also he got two emails when he signed up; one from our billing company and one from us. The ones from the billing company usually say where he can cancel (I say usually because I really don't recall the exact text of all the processors join emails from two years ago). The email from us also links to our support site. If the guy was clever enough to figure out how to join, he should be clever enough to figure out how to cancel.

Your opinion is certainly noted, however I am rather insulted by the implication that we stole this money from him. He came to our site. He clicked around. He filled out the join form. He entered his credit card information. We did none of that. We didn't hold a gun to his head. And then he logged into the site about a dozen times over the course of two days.

And in this particular customer's case, I'd say that's a good thing. Its customers like this who are the cause of many of our industry's problems. Be glad he joined my site and not yours.

Sites like what? Sites that think its unreasonable for a customer to take a little responsibility for his own actions?

Out of curiousity, how do you define a "REAL SITE"?

I really have no reason to flame you (aside your your implication that I'm a theif), but I would love to see your responses to my various questions.

That reminds me of the "Leather, Fetish and Domination" catalog scam. Its a funny idea but we wouldn't do it.

Legally he can chargeback up untill 6 months

if the proccessor already gave him a refund then asking your for more is crazy.

Legally he doesn't have any case.

He technically aggreed to have his account rebilled for convience. he should of cancled

I gave the earlier facetious answer because I don't talk about my sites here. There are various reasons for that, mainly because I'm not here to whore them. Unless you've had your head under a rock you've probably seen them.

You're mostly right in your assumption that some of them are largely marketing mills. For most of our sites the biggest cost assocaited with a member is in procuring the member not servicing him once he is a member. That being said, the site in question has a little over a terrabyte of videos, pictures, audio and text stories spread between local content and feeds. That's not even counting the live stuff but much of that is upsells.

fuck him, the FTC is not going to go after because of one idiot complaint.

FUCK HIM!

He made the cahrge and forgot his fault let him go to the FTC they wont do shit for him

I know at least one webmaster who had a customer who was allowed to charge back 15 months.

KK's right - it's risk management. We are the red headed stepchild. No, he doesn't deserve anything more than a couple of months credit. Yes, Visa/MC will probably give him more. Yes, Visa/MC may give him a LOT more.

It's sucks, but crediting him is the SAFEST bet. Or sending the check like Nancy suggested, lol!

Send him a bill for the amount that IBill refunded.

Make the domain / sitename he joined is visible on the bill inside the envelope.

On the outside make it say something like:

"URGENT! - Regarding your unpaid balance with our adult website..."


Then send it to him once a week or whatever is required by law (if there is such a law?)



I wonder if that would be legal?

demand further information from him, he will back off

That being said, the site in question has a little over a terrabyte of videos, pictures, audio and text stories spread between local content and feeds.


Boy that is alot of stuff I agree with you,if he joined and it wasnt some funny this trial turns to $49.95 a month 5 minutes after you push the enter button. Then its his fault not yours, also if you can swing it I would refund rather then the chance of someone bringing a mountain of grief.

I'm sure a few search engines are happy with your business
WG

What happened with this guy's refund?

And how many times a year do you get requests for refunds for 21 months?

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=138507

I'm thinking it might be bout the same guy! Who knows!

jDOG

He never respond to the email we sent him asking for more information. I'm debating whether or not to resend the email, but I'm leaning against doing so. So far no chargebacks either.

We get lengthy refund requests about once every month or two.